Do You Shun Popular Pop Culture?

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Do You Shun Popular Pop Culture?”

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Date: April 9, 2026
Host: Alison Stewart
Featured Guest: Anna Holmes, Atlantic Contributing Writer
Episode Theme: The psychology and personal stories behind shunning super-popular pop culture.

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Overview

This episode digs into why some people consciously avoid hugely popular TV shows, movies, music, and trends—a phenomenon explored in Anna Holmes’ recent Atlantic article, “The People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture.” With listener interactions and expert insights, the episode examines “LOMO” (Love Of Missing Out), the emotional and psychological dynamics of resisting the bandwagon, and the personal quirks, anxieties, and tiny rebellions that drive this cultural behavior.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Spark for the Conversation (02:46)

• Anna Holmes admits she resists culturally dominant shows and trends, often due to overexposure or hype.
  • Quote [03:13]: “The sheer amount of people who are recommending it to me and the amount of conversation I’m seeing about it in the culture kind of turned me off.”
• Her Atlantic editor relates to this feeling, revealing a shared avoidance when popularity becomes pressure.

2. Why Popularity Is a Turnoff (04:05)

• Anna’s avoidance increased with age and the explosion of streaming options.
  • Quote [04:12]: “As I got older... I started to feel overwhelmed by television and film options... just this kind of curmudgeonliness that evolved as I got older.”
• She delayed watching “The Wire” for years, only giving in when the cultural moment faded.

3. Social Media’s Role & Performative Culture (07:50)

• The rise of platforms like Twitter amplified the experience of hype and cultural consensus.
  • Quote [07:50]: “It also felt a little bit performative... a kind of performativity around or identity marking around what you watch and what you don’t watch...”

4. Listener Stories: Why They Resist (10:50–14:11)

• Matthew (Harlem) avoided “Sleep No More” because of “extreme hype,” then became obsessed after finally going [11:05].
• Mike (Astoria) distinguishes “good” vs. “bad” popular culture, suggesting total rejection is illogical [12:29].
• Simone (Long Island) shares how TV avoidance shaped her life and household habits [12:20].

5. Hype Aversion & Psych Reactance (14:11)

• Anna introduces “hype aversion.”
  • Quote: “It’s just an avoidance of pop culture products that seemingly everyone insists I would like.”
• She explains psychologist Jonas’s concept of psychological reactance, a defensive urge against anything that feels like compulsory participation.

6. Text Messages: Famous Holdouts (15:38–16:15)

• Listeners confess to never engaging with cultural behemoths like “Harry Potter,” “Cats,” or Beyonce.
  • Text: “I have never seen or read Harry Potter. I might be the last person on earth not to, so I’m holding out.”

7. The Role of Time & Binge Anxiety (17:39)

• Anna often waits years for hype to settle before watching acclaimed series, like “The Wire” or “Breaking Bad.”
  • Quote [17:39]: “When the hype died down... I feel that I need some time to come around to it on my own.”
• She acknowledges the risk of binging once she’s hooked, affecting sleep and productivity.

8. The Awkwardness of Faking Fandom (19:06)

• Anna recounts pretending to have seen “The Pit” when meeting its executive producer, then later confessing the truth—a moment both uncomfortable and revealing [19:06].
  • Memorable moment: “I was fibbing that I’d seen it... I thought she was going to find this amusing... she did not.”

9. Listeners: Pride and Defiance in Missing Out (21:22–22:41)

• Rosie (Hoboken): “Never listened to Taylor Swift or seen Breaking Bad,” but became a fan after finally trying “Heated Rivalry.”
• Gail (Warren, NJ): Considers never having seen “Titanic” a “red badge of courage” [21:22].
• Barbara (Manhattan): Links her avoidance to a lifelong instinct to resist trends, describing it as an act of individualism.
  • Quote [22:41]: “There’s a certain defiance... almost feels like a threat to my individualism.”

10. Individualism, Snob Effects, and Social Influence (24:45–29:24)

• Anna references the tension between bandwagon effects (conformity) and snob effects (avoidance), drawing on research from the Wharton School.
  • Quote [27:57]: “On the spectrum of bandwagon effects and snob effects, I think I lean more toward snob effects, but I conveniently don’t think of myself as a snob.”
• Many admit to the satisfaction and social cachet of saying, “I’ve never seen Titanic,” using non-participation as a point of pride.

11. Choosing What to Engage With (26:46)

• Anna relies on recommendations from friends—especially those in the industry—even if she ultimately dislikes what’s popular, as with “Heated Rivalry.”
  • Quote [26:46]: “...They think they can finally crack me at some point. And sometimes they do.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anna Holmes on the perils of hype:
  “Once the moment passes, is when I will start interacting with a lot of this culture...” [24:22]
• Barbara (Listener):
  “Going with the crowd and the popular vote almost feels like a threat to my individualism.” [22:41]
• Anna Holmes:
  “There’s something a little bit fun, you know, in water cooler conversation in saying, well, I’ve never seen Titanic or I haven’t read Harry Potter or I don’t like Trader Joe’s.” [29:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:13: Anna describes the origin of her avoidance.
• 04:12: How age and streaming altered her habits.
• 07:50: Social media and performativity in pop culture.
• 11:05: Listener Matthew’s “Sleep No More” confession.
• 14:11: The idea of “hype aversion” and “psychological reactance.”
• 17:39: Letting time dull the hype before watching a show.
• 19:06: Anna’s awkward fib to the executive producer of “The Pit.”
• 22:41: Listener Barbara on individualism and defiance.
• 24:45: Individualism and “snob effect” vs. “bandwagon effect.”
• 26:46: How Anna selects what she (might eventually) watch.

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Takeaways

• Many people avoid massively popular culture to maintain a sense of uniqueness, autonomy, and critical distance.
• Hype (especially on social media) can make people feel pressured, sparking psychological “reactance.”
• There’s often pride, humor, or irony in what people have not seen—sometimes bordering on defiance or badge-of-honor territory.
• Even pop culture professionals feel resistance to the bandwagon.
• Eventually, curiosity or peer influence may crack resistance, but not always—missing out can be its own form of pleasure.

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Episode Title: "Do You Shun Popular Pop Culture?"
Listen for: A mix of anecdote, self-examination, theory, and listener confessions that illuminate the peculiar joys—and costs—of letting hype pass you by.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Coming up, Julie Mehretu will be here. The artist will join us to talk about her new exhibition at the Mariam Goodman Gallery and readers for this month's get lit with all of it book club pick. We are reading Leg Effect by Cynthia Dupree Sweeney. The story follows a woman named Nina who is living in Rochester. When we first first meet her in 1977, she's feeling stuck and bored in her marriage, and after a friend gives her a copy of the Joy of Sex, Nina begins to experience awakening and starts an affair with her neighbor. Years later, Nina must reflect back on the repercussions of her actions as she prepares for a family wedding. I'll be in conversation with Cynthia and you on Monday, April 27 at 6pm to find out how to get the book and to snag your free tickets to the event, head to wnyc.org again. That's wnyc.org getlit and happy reading. Now let's get this hour started. You turn to our show for culture about theater, books, tv, movies and conversations. But what if you woke up one morning and thought, you know what? I don't want to hear about something that's popular. You just don't. Well, Anna Holmes is an Atlantic contributing writer and she noticed that she tends to avoid watching hot new TV shows, shows or movies just because everyone else seems to be watching it. She suffers from what she calls lomo love of missing out. As Anna writes, quote the pit, severance, sinners, you name it. For some reason, the more hype something gets, the more likely I am to resist it. And it turns out there's a psychology behind why some people lean out from certain pop culture. You can learn more about that in Anna's recent Atlantic article, the People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture. Anna, welcome back to all of it.

[A]

Hi. Thanks. Nice to be here.

[B]

So this all started with the Pit and a conversation you had with an Atlantic editor. How'd that conversation start?

[A]

From what I remember, I was complaining that the guy that I'm dating is always talking about the Pit, and then I can't have a conversation with him about it. Or rather, he's complaining that I can't have a conversation with him about it. But he is not the only one who has told me that the Pit is an amazing show. And I. And I believe him. It's not that I think that the show is bad. It's just that the sheer amount of people who are recommending it to me and the amount of conversation I'm seeing about it in the culture kind of turned me off. So I was having this discussion with the Atlantic editor, and she confessed, if you want to put it that way, that she also hasn't watched the Pit for similar reasons, that she feels like there's this inherent pressure that to watch something that everyone else is talking about, and then she's resistant to doing so. So she and I resemble each other in that sense.

[B]

So why has popularity historically been a turnoff for you when deciding what culture to consume?

[A]

Well, the thing is, I think it's gotten worse as I've gotten older. When I was in my 20s, my first job out of college was as an assistant at Entertainment Weekly magazine. And that was our. It was our job to. To keep up on popular culture and to express, you know, enthusiasm. And, you know, that's how we came up with story ideas. That's how we connected with our coworkers. It was a very heady, exciting place to work, and we felt like we were at the forefront of popular culture. Something happened, though. Something happened as I got older, maybe in my, like, 40s, where I felt that I. You know, it's hard to say because I wasn't always conscious of it, but I just noticed that I was resistant to various movies and tv. And I think part of it has to do with the sheer volume of film and television that's out there because of streaming. As the years went on, I started to feel overwhelmed by television and film options. That said, in the piece I mentioned that even something as old as the Wire, which is a great show, I was resistant to watching for a Good. Four years after it began, and it was only, you know, four or five years after it premiered that I started watching it. There was just this. It. Just this kind of curmudgeonliness that, that evolved as I got older. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[B]

Well, listeners, are you someone like Anna who find themselves shunning popular culture? Why do you think that is? Call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. What is it that you haven't watched? Were you always this way or did it come later in life? What popular movie, show, album, or trend that you refused to get into? Now's your chance to get it off your chest. Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Oh, we've got te never saw Indiana Jones and don't intend to. I might see the Matrix, but don't think I'll like it. And finally, I just read Eat, Pray, Love and surprisingly liked it. I couldn't read it when it was so popular. This next text says I've never seen the movie Titanic and won't ever. Just because. Well, just because also I never had White Castle. Don't think I'm missing much. That's very funny. You know, the Pit. I'm gonna go back to the pit for a minute. It's. It's a critical success. The same with Sinners. You didn't see Sinners, and they really did. You did see.

[A]

Sorry to interrupt you. I finally did see it. Yes. After, after the piece came out. And we can discuss that when you're done.

[B]

All right, we'll do that. But, you know, with the Pit, you know, they became hits in spite of themselves. They were not manufactured to be big hit shows. Why has that show, the Pit, not pulled you in, given its critical success?

[A]

I think it's probably some. A little bit. The little bit of avoidance of hospital shows, which I don't have a problem with in theory, but the, the stress of them, you know. You know, I, I love a good procedural, but I find hospital shows to be more stressful to watch than, let's say, crime solving shows. And I also am a little bit squeamish about blood and gore. And, you know, perhaps the blood and gore aspect of the pit is, is, Is minor. I don't know, but.

[B]

No, it's major. It's major.

[A]

Oh, it's major. Okay. So that might be part of what's, of what's making me resist. But, you know, the other thing I was. I was going to say that I just remembered is that once social media became widely used and I started interacting with social media, namely Twitter, and this would have been in about 2010, I started to really see the ubiquity of certain conversations. And on the one hand, that was exciting to see how things were talked about and evolved and backlash, et cetera, et cetera. But it also felt a little bit performative. And I wonder whether part of my rejection of some popular culture products isn't a rejection of a kind of performativity around or identity marking around what you watch and what you don't watch and what you think is cool and what you don't think is cool. You know, the whole. The famous line about I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me does apply to me somewhat, and it applies to me going back to my childhood. So I think that there's. There's a seed that was planted long before I started rejecting the pit.

[B]

Well, let's talk about Sinners. You know, it broke the Oscar nomination record, and you. You didn't watch it until recently. All right, what made you decide? Decide. Now is the time. I will watch Sinners.

[A]

Well, the Oscars were coming up at that point. It was maybe a couple days before the Oscars happened. And I really felt like I should watch one of the most lauded movies. And I had already seen one battle after another, which, you know, it was at least being the. The. The tension was between which, you know, which of the two movies is going to win. Take home most of the awards. And so I felt like I needed to educate myself with Sinners. And it was funny because I watched it alone sometimes, you know, when given the chance to do something alone, I read instead of watched instead of watch TV or movies. And I really liked the movie. I thought it was really evocative and moody and beautifully shot. The one thing I'll say, though, is that there's a scene in there, a very famous scene that was being talked about quite a bit that I didn't like. And it's possible that within the context of the film Sinners, that I was still rejecting something about it. It's the scene where you see kind of.

[B]

Oh, I know what scene you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah, you do? Yeah, you know, the evolution of the diaspora of the black and, well, the, you know, African dance and how it morphed into, you know, the blues. Anyway, everyone knows who's seen the film. And knows which scene I'm talking about. And I was kind of like, ah, it's okay.

[B]

Let's take some calls. Let's talk to Matthew in Harlem. Hi, Matthew. Thank you for taking the time to call all of it.

[C]

Hi there. So what I. What I avoided seeing for years and years was sleep no More. And then I didn't see it until it came back after Covid. And I wound up going like over a dozen times before it closed.

[B]

You went a dozen times? Wow. What made you not want to go see it the first time?

[C]

The hype was just too extreme. And the types of people who were. Who were going. And it was just. I couldn't. It was. The hype was just too much.

[B]

Thanks for calling, Matthew. Let's talk to Mike, who's calling in from Astoria. Hey, Mike, thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.

[C]

Hi. So I think we have to distinguish, you know, between good pop culture and bad pop culture. Just. Just saying you're against pop culture really makes no sense. There's a famous essay, mid cult versus mass cult, in which this distinction is talked about. You know, stance to the pit is understandable if you're not into a soap opera format, but resistance to sinners or weapons really doesn't make any sense because these are actually innovative pop culture. And I don't get it. Just because everybody is talking about it, that would make you not see it. I think we have to discern between bad pop culture and good pop culture.

[B]

Thank you so much for your call. Let's talk to Simone online for. She's calling in from Long Island. Hi, thanks for calling in.

[C]

Hi, is this me?

[B]

Yeah, you're on the air.

[C]

Can you hear me? Sorry, I just changed AirPods. So my story is this. I watch what my husband chooses on TV because we've been married six years. I grew up watching sitcoms, and when I got to college, I didn't have a TV and I never looked back. I didn't mention my first husband. We were married 28 years and he didn't have a TV either. So we raised the kids without a TV until pop culture just inundated us in about 20 years ago. And we got a big screen TV for them. But I still didn't watch TV on my own until my second marriage. And now I watch what my husband chooses, unless it's too violent. Interestingly, your interviewer asked me what I watch and I said it was current, but I actually, we're streaming BritBox. We're watching MI5, which is ended 15 years ago. But we, we, we, I, we do watch current things as well. I just don't choose them. But I was, I just didn't want a TV all those years.

[B]

Thanks for calling in and sharing that part of your life. We're discussing an article from the Atlantic about called People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture. My guest is Atlantic contributing writer Anna Holmes. We're also hearing for you are you often shuns pop culture. Why do you think that is? What popular movie, show, album, or trend that you just. You never engaged with? A number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC and I, I think it was our first caller. I think it was Matthew who just said, I can't stand the hype of it. And you called this tendency a height, the hype aversion. Will you explain a little more about that?

[A]

Yeah, it's just a term that I made up. It's not, it's not something that I think I, I was. Well, I certainly didn't encounter any of the scient. But, you know, it is what it sounds like, which is an avoidance of pop culture products, in my case of pop culture products that, that seemingly everyone insists I would like. And I, I tried to make clear in the piece that it's not that I think I'm above it all or too cool because I don't think of myself as being cool at all. I just find myself to be weirdly resistant, you know, and then going beyond that, you know, there's a. There's a term called a concept called psych reactance. I'd spoken to a social psychologist in Germany who told me he, he relates to my. My orientation towards popular culture himself. But he, he described psychological reactance as being a defensive response that occurs when someone thinks their freedom of choice is being constrained. And he said that for a long time. He refused the Harry Potter novels, by the way. I still haven't read them personally. And that because of their popularity and that he only. Only kind of dug into them once his young daughter expressed interest in them. Same thing with Taylor Swift. He rejected Taylor Swift until his daughter and her. Her love of, of Taylor Swift's music began to wear on him. And then he realized he kind of liked it.

[B]

Oh, we got a text here. Says, I have never seen a red Harry Potter. I might be the last person on earth not to, so I'm holding out. This says Cats. Never saw it. Cannot stand the song memory. And now being pressured to see Jellicoe Ball. I might see it. And this says yes. As a former senior music executive, I could never and still can't listen to music once it became popular. I'm always surprised when I like any popular music, even though I spent years working with big pop stars like Outkast, tlc, Usher, Ciara and others. Lol. It even took a minute for me to listen to a whole Beyonce album.

[A]

I still reject Beyonce, which I'm gonna get in trouble for saying. But I think probably because she's so popular, especially around the lemonade area. I was era, I was kind of

[B]

like, eh, you know, the name is Anna Holmes. Do not at me. Anna Holmes from the Atlantic. We're gonna talk more about her piece, the People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture after the break. This is all of it. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Atlantic contributing writer Anna Holmes. She wrote a piece for the Atlantic called the People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture. And Anna is one of them. This said, this sounds very much like the Seinfeld episode in which Elaine won't see the English Patient simply because everybody is raving about it. I confess I've never seen Seinfeld really like maybe like half an episode. It wasn't interesting to me. Which makes me come to the question of what eventually contributes to you deciding that you're going to check something out after it's been super popular,

[A]

time passing. I used the example of the Wire, you know, waiting about four years, like basically when the, when the hype died down and understanding intellectually that it was good. Like, I don't mistrust the people who are suggesting TV or movies to me. It's just that I feel that I need some time to come around to it on my own. This was also the case with Breaking Bad. I waited about three years to start watching Breaking Bad and again would have conceded within three episodes that it was great. I just needed. Yeah, I just needed my time to kind of mull it over in my own head as to when I was going to start. And that. Okay, that's another thing I want to mention is that a lot of this is about binging and my fear of binging. I'm afraid of binging tv and I have a tendency to do so. So the idea that I would get into a show was also creating a risk that I might binge it. And then I'd find myself, you know, up till awake until three or four in the morning, unable to like, stop pressing play as each episode Ended. And that's what happened with, for example, the show Lost. I would binge. Was not good for my sleep. It was not good for my productivity the next day. So there's a certain self awareness about it. I do have a funny story for you about the Pit, if you want to hear it.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

I haven't seen it yet. I had a friend visiting me in Los Angeles, and one of her good friends is an executive producer of the Pit. When I dropped my friend off at the executive producer's house, the executive producer came out to say hello to me. I don't know her that well, and I said, congratulations on the show. It's really, really, really good. So I was fibbing that I'd seen it, and it kind of just fell out of my mouth. I didn't consciously think I was gonna say that to her, but I felt guilty about it. So the next time I saw her, I confessed that I had. That I had. That I had lied. I said, I just want you to know I'm. I am. I am genuinely giving you congratulations on the success of the show. But I haven't actually watched it yet. And I thought she was gonna find this amusing and funny that I had just kind of lied that had fallen out of my mouth, but she did not. She did not. She did not find it funny for whatever reason. And, I mean, you know, I might be projecting that she didn't find it funny, but she didn't really laugh. But, you know, when faced with someone who was integral to the creation of a successful show that I haven't watched, I pretended that I had. I pretended that I was part of the crowd.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I have to.

[B]

I have to process that a little bit.

[A]

I know. It's a lot.

[B]

It's a lot. Let's talk to Rosie in Hoboken. Hey, Rosie, thanks for holding. You're on the air.

[C]

Hey, Allison. Love the show. Thank you for everything you do. Yeah, I just. I haven't seen any of the shows that you guys are, like, mentioning. Breaking Bad, the Wire. I've never listened to Taylor Swift. I think I do come from a place of, like, elitism. I'm like, oh, it's too. Like, I'm better than that. But the reality is I finally watched Heated Rivalry, and I became absolutely obsessed with it, and I just wanted to advocate for, like, trying something new. You never know. I'm part of a fandom now. I'm going to a dance party on Friday, tomorrow for Heated Rivalry. And it's just, like, it's so nice to. To Just kind of nerd out and accept that some stuff is fun to just love and. And have that online community and fandom. I don't know, watch Heated Rivalry. It's great.

[B]

Rosie, thanks for calling. Let's talk to Gail from Warren, New Jersey. Hi, Gayle. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it. You're on the air.

[C]

Hey.

[B]

Hey. Are you there?

[C]

Yeah, I'm there. Can you hear me? Yeah.

[B]

You're great.

[C]

Oh, good. Yeah. I love movies, I love tv, but I have never seen the movie Titanic. I never will see the movie Titanic. And I kind of consider it a red badge of courage for never having seen it.

[B]

Do you know what happens at the end? I'm kidding.

[C]

Well, that seems to me the only good part.

[B]

Thanks, Gail. Let's talk to Barbara from Manhattan. Hey, Barbara, thanks for calling, all of it.

[C]

Thank you, Allison, for taking my call. Love your show. I feel like listening to Anna is listening to myself talk. I mean, I mean, using words like curmudgeon. And, you know, I feel that way sometimes, but for me, and for me, it crosses everything that I choose from what I wear to what I watch to, you know, it's. And I think it. I think like, I mean, I watched Sex and the city, I think 10 years after it came on, or Sopranos. I just watched for the first time last year. I think that there's a certain defiance that I've always had, and it almost feels like going with the crowd and the popular vote almost feels like a threat to my individualism.

[B]

That's an interesting point. Anna, what do you make of what Barbara has to say?

[A]

I think what Barbara. I think Barbara is exactly right. And one of the individuals that I spoke to for my piece was talking about a resistance to immersion in a crowd as being an expression of individualism, which might be even more pronounced within the United States, which really, you know, at least, you know, historically, Americans really prize individualism, you know, in a society that's a little more communally minded, let's say, you know, Japan has.

[C]

That.

[A]

Has that reputation, is, you know, I wonder whether there's the same sort of rejection of what's popular. And again, I don't know. I'm just theorizing that maybe there is. I've never. I haven't studied the Japanese culture, but I know, I think. I think that there's something about, you know, being in an in group that feels threatening, certainly to me. And, you know, once, once the moment passes, is. Is when I will start interacting with a lot of this culture, whether it's the Wire, Breaking Bad. Someone called in and mentioned they hadn't watched Sex and the city until 10 years later. I took me about two years to start it. I still haven't seen Caddyshack, which dates me a little bit in terms of my age. There are. Or Animal House. There's a bunch of movies from the 80s that I've never seen and then I. And then I won't. So it is a little bit of a badge of honor in some ways, especially with regards to, let's say, well, for me, the Harry Potter books.

[B]

This says, I have a friend who rejects Trader Joe's for all the same reasons and is super happy. She's never been inside. I think we have time for one more call. Let's talk to Mindy on the Upper west side. Hi, Mindy. Thanks for calling all of it.

[C]

Hi. I am so glad that you're talking about this because I always feel like the odd woman out. Everybody's raving about a particular series and I just refuse to watch it or I resist for a long time. So the Godfather, not a series, but it was too violent for me. So I watched half of the first movie and that was it. Never saw the other ones. The Sopranos, same thing. You know, you sort of get the formula of it. But I just. I watch television at night and these things, the violent ones give me nightmares. So I loved the Sopranos, but again, I watched the first three seasons. Mad Men just didn't interest me. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and what did I need to watch a fake version of that for? And then the Americans. The Americans kind of like cracked the code because everybody was talking about it and I thought, I do not want to watch this thing. I'm not going to watch this thing. And I resisted for a long time and then I became hooked on it. And I watched the first all six seasons in about two and a half months. I was totally binging on it. And it's so, you know, they're breaking corpses, bones and stuffing them into suitcases. It's like, why am I watching this? But I felt that it. I couldn't stop. I think it was the acting, they were just magnetic. But I felt like it had co opted my. My body and, you know, like a body snatcher and corrupted my soul and my brain.

[B]

It's kind of what Anna was talking about a little earlier, right? About like you're not sure that you can get away from it once you. Once it grabs hold of you. So, Anna, where do you. Where do you get your pop culture. What do you decide to watch? Who do you trust?

[A]

My friends, mostly because, you know, despite the fact that I have this, you know, kind of obstinate orientation towards popular. Popular culture, my friends, many of whom work in Your Work in television or work in film or also writers or writers about pop culture, they still suggest things to me. And so. And I appreciate that they keep trying. You know, like, they think that they can finally crack me at some point. And sometimes they do. For example, heated rivalry. I had a number of people tell me to watch it, that I would, you know, really kind of being kind of aggressive about telling me to watch it because it's a subject, you know, sex and romance, that I really like. I will say, though, that I watched it and I did not like it. I was expecting to really like it, and I was very disappointed. I felt that the acting was bad and the writing was bad. And I know that I'm gonna probably get yelled at for saying that because it really is beloved by a lot of people. But that's an example of something where I was. Something was recommended to me as being very good, and my worst suspicions about it came true.

[B]

You write about Lomo, the love of missing out. What is it that you like about Lomo?

[A]

What. What do I like about Lomo? I guess it just. I guess it. It just suggests that I have a. A need for uniqueness. One of the. And, you know, and maybe I'm kidding myself because, you know, as I mentioned in the piece, there are lots of ways in which I conform or lots of things that I like that everybody else likes, whether it's a type of, you know, a brand of shoe or tote bag or restaurant or Trader Joe's, for example, which I just went to yesterday. But I was speaking to a Wharton School of business professor who talked about the magnet model of social influence. And he was making a distinction between what he called bandwagon effects, which he describes as kind of conformity, and snob effects, which is an avoidance when something is too popular or a need for uniqueness. And, you know, on the. On the spectrum of bandwagon effects and snob effects, I think I lean more towards snob effects, but I kind of conveniently don't think of myself as a snob. But the idea of being conforming and to something is a real concern of mine. And I think a lot of other people. And there's something a little bit fun, you know, in water cooler conversation in saying, well, I've never seen Titanic or I haven't read Harry Potter or I don't like Trader Joe's.

[B]

Anna Holmes is an Atlantic contributing writer. Her piece is called the People who Shun Super Popular Pop Culture. Anna, thanks for joining us.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

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