← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Emmy Nominee Cristin Milioti On Playing An Anti-Hero In 'The Penguin'
00:22:07
The acclaimed new HBO series "The Penguin" earned 24 Emmy nominations in this year's awards.
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- [00:01]
Hershey's Marketing Team
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- [00:31]
Babs
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- [01:09]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. This year's Emmy nominations dropped a little over an hour ago, celebrating the year's best in television. We've had conversations about several of the nominated shows and with several of the nominated actors. Brian Henry Tyree was nominated for Outstanding Actor in a Limited Series for Dope Thief, as was Liz Mehweather and Jenny Slate for Dying for Sex. Nominated for Outstanding Limited Series. You can catch those conversations on the Olivet webpage. One of the conversations was about an absolutely standout performance from Christian Milioti who played the antihero selfia Falcone Gigante on the Gotham City based Batman Adjacement crime drama.
- [01:50]
Cristin Milioti
Whoo.
- [01:50]
Alison Stewart
That's a sentence. The Penguin. She was nominated for Outstanding actress in a TV movie Star Ltd. Series. We get to watch her survive the horrific Akram mental institution where she learned to eat viciously at lightning speed and without utensils, where she returns home to her high class crime family. We see to their disgust that she hasn't kicked the habit. Christian plays Sophia as a ruthless feminist answer to the men of Scarface or Godfather. And I have to say it's something special to watch her walk among the carnage she created, clad in a gas mask and a sunshine yellow evening gown. She recently sat down with me to talk about her role on the Emmy nominated work in the Penguin. It was a watch party conversation which meant we took your calls, but since we're sharing it now as an encore presentation, we won't be able to take calls today. I started by Asking Christian to explain the broader character arc of Sophia.
- [02:46]
Cristin Milioti
I'm like, wanting to answer that in two separate parts because I only got the first script when I signed on. But even in that first script, I could tell that this was sort of like the. A type of role like, this is extremely rare. And then as I read more of them, that. That hunch was confirmed that this was like, you know, there's just the. Yeah. A role like this is. Is a needle in a haystack. Like, it. It just does not come along. And it'd been something that I'd been hoping for and wishing for, and, you know, I've also been incredibly lucky. I've gotten to play a lot of roles that I felt that way about, but this was like. This was. Yeah, just. I. I understood how special and unique and singular it was because she gets to go through so much.
- [03:33]
Alison Stewart
She reminds. She's like a Shakespearean character.
- [03:36]
Cristin Milioti
That's what. Yes. You know, when. When Colin and I were shooting it, we would refer to it as an opera all the time because it felt very operatic, you know, that. That. That world sort of toes a fine line. It's heightened, but it's still. You can believe that it would be happening right around you today. You know, Gotham has always been sort of like a. Slightly adjacent to New York City, but, yeah, no, it felt very Shakespearean. Operatic. Yeah.
- [04:06]
Alison Stewart
So she's so complex. She's angry, she's hurt, she's feral. Your makeup and costumes are outrageous. Let's give a shout out to your designer, Helen Wong.
- [04:18]
Cristin Milioti
Yes. Incredible. Yeah. To Brian Body and Martha Melendez. Like, you know, the whole. Every. Those three departments. And I were obviously, like, in constant communication and collaboration, and I will always be grateful to them for just how collaborative it was, you know, which I think is also a rarity in these franchise worlds. And that's also a testament to our showrunner, Lauren Lefranc, whose praises I can't sing enough. I'll never, like, have the proper words, but they. They were so. It was like, a big collaboration, and usually that stuff is sort of, like, put on you. You know, it's like, set by what a comic looks like or what they want a toy to look like. I mean, I don't know. This is my first time in a franchise, so I was. I was really, like. I was really going in there, sort of, like, expecting one thing, and I came with a lot of ideas, and they had ideas, and it was just. It was so cool.
- [05:20]
Alison Stewart
How did you understand how Sophia's wardrobe would affect. Would affect Your performance first, how much did the wardrobe affect it? And then also, how did it help us understand her better?
- [05:36]
Cristin Milioti
Well, I think I learned how it affected it in real time as we were shooting it. You know, like, in the beginning, she's in these sort of really buttoned up looks. She's. She's covered up. And I knew what she was covering up. You know, we. We'd been in discussions about that, but in these sort of, like, pseudo Chanel. That's what they were sort of based on. Very proper, very wealthy, but constrained. You know, I. I think something Helen and I talked about a lot was like a. A luxurious, straight jacket, essentially, which is, like, what you meet her in when you first see her. She's in that white, pure. Nothing to see here. Um, and, you know, something I felt very strongly about, and. And so did Helen and so did Lauren, was that, you know, if this woman grows up in the world of this extremely, you know, patriarchal Mafia family where women are allowed to express themselves through hair, makeup, and clothes, and then if this person goes through what they go through, how would you then express that through those tools that she's been given her whole life? Or, like, those were the set of things that she was taught. And you're also in this heightened world of Gotham where, like, because I've been a lifelong Batman fan, I'm also like, you can turn everything up to a 12 out of 10, including how someone looks. And that's like. What's so incredible to me about the villains in these things is that there's no superpowers. There's no mystical, you know, helmet that gets delivered by the God of whatever. It's people making these costumes in their homes in order to go out and face the world that they are angry at. And so, like, I think that that also that it's. It's like an. It's just like an endless playground.
- [07:26]
Alison Stewart
I thought your makeup looked like Cleopatra's at one point, and I wondered if that was.
- [07:32]
Cristin Milioti
I. I didn't. I came in with. I felt very strongly about that eyeliner that. That she first starts wearing within the yellow dressing. And I was. I'm again, so grateful to Martha for being so open about that and to Lauren and, you know, because you're still. You're having to, like, put these choices up many rungs of a ladder of people who have to, like, approve it and blah, blah, blah, you know, because it is like a giant franchise thing. And they somehow let me do it. And I always felt like, yeah, I. Some of it. I didn't base it on Cleopatra per se, but I wanted it to be like, like a war paint. And I wanted it to, I wanted it to be in conjunction with this gown that we'd had so many different fittings about. And I knew the gas mask would be on its way. Like, what would you be able to see through the viewfinder of the gas mask? And I wanted it to seem like this was truly her, you know, sitting down with this, like, battle makeup on, except that they don't know that they're about to go into battle. So I, that was like a very. And that was like the first time, you know, she's, her makeup leading up to that is very much like what that family would expect of her or what she would be, what she would have grown up doing. And so it was like the first sort of tiptoe into then what it becomes for the rest of the show.
- [08:57]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Eliana, I believe, from Westchester. Hi, thanks for calling on.
- [09:02]
Eliana
Hi, thanks. I just wanted to comment on how beautiful I thought Sophia is portraying a woman. You know, she's so deeply feeling and she's so strong at the same time. And I feel like women's weaknesses are always much more highlighted or much more paid attention to than their strengths. And women have so many different sides of them, and it just is kind of a beautiful thing. Sophia keeps coming back in these positions of power, and it's just so, it feels so good to see that, that she can still kind of coexist in these both parts of her personality and her lived in experience.
- [09:53]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for the call. Yeah. I was struck by the feminism of Sofia's character, as wild as that may be, you know, from her, she goes from being this mob daughter to this real mob boss at the end.
- [10:06]
Cristin Milioti
That, that, that, that caller was, that was so meaningful for me. I got like a little emotional. Cause I, I, I certainly feel that way. You know, something that I've been talking about when I, especially when I talk to other women about it, you know, is that like, this was the type of role that I wish I had seen growing up, for sure. You know, and, and not that there haven't been like, great villain, you know, like, I think of like, Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman. I mean, like in Batman Returns. Like, that's, it's incredible. But yeah, that was like, also part of the rarity of it was I was like, it feels like it's also like a reflection of the time that we're living in. You know, obviously I'm not condoning this action, but, you know, like, there's that scene in that. In that episode where I'm in front of the. The family. This is a spoiler for anyone who hasn't.
- [10:50]
Alison Stewart
Okay. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler.
- [10:53]
Cristin Milioti
Interrupted over and over and over and over by Johnny Viti. And I just take out a gun and shoot him in the head. And it's like, I have talked to a lot of women about. Not that anyone wants to do that, but that impulse of being like, stop it. I'm speaking. We've seen it on the national stage. We've seen it on the international stage. We've seen it our whole lives. And there is something, I think, that is, like, you know, like, wish fulfillment. And again, not condoning, like, an act. Obviously, no one should be shooting anyone in the head, but that. What it would. We've seen so many movies where men do that. You know, you see Scarface. You see all these things where that type of power and unhingedness, or whatever you want to call it, is celebrated. And to see, like, a woman just be like, no, this is efficient. I got what I needed out of you. I need you to be done. I need to show up some power. I'm in a fabulous fur. Like, it. It just is like, it makes you. I. I felt like that playing her. Like, I was like, I don't ever want to give this up because it's. You're. You're like. And. And then, you know, obviously, there's parts of her that are also, like, very complicated and. And. And steeped in grief and loneliness and all these things that we all feel. But, yeah, there's a part of her where you're like, oh, my God. What? What? I. Would. I. Would you. You, like, root for her? Because you've all felt on different scales, like, the things that she goes through. And then she really lets people know what. What they've done is wrong, you know? And again, like, I don't condone what she does, but you kind of. You're like, whoa, damn.
- [12:27]
Alison Stewart
Yeah.
- [12:28]
Cristin Milioti
Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
I have to ask about this choice, whether it was you or the writer. Sophia eats like a trucker. She eats with her hands. She fills her glass all the way to the top. Why does Sophia eat like this?
- [12:42]
Cristin Milioti
Well, that was something that Lauren had always put in the script, and it was in. It was in different, multiple episodes. And then it was something we would play with more as we sort of went forward. But a lot of it was that this is someone who. You know, the way she eats. First of all. She hasn't had good food. Yeah. Or. Or sort of like softness or luxury of any kind in 10 years. And so there's also this, like, the need to have, like, as much. She is sort of like a, you know, she has a taste for the finer things. That's why she dresses the way she does. That's like, you know, and so she's back in the world for the first time. And there's a bottomlessness to her too. You know, you kind of get the sense that this nothing would ever fill what has happened to her, which is part of her journey. And I think one of the ways in which she tries to fill that is with food. She's also been used to eating in a. In the mess hall of an insane asylum for 10 years where he would want to eat as quickly as humanly possible in order to, like, get your ration or whatever. And so I also wanted to keep that in mind too, which was that, like, this is someone who has been. Who has had to live like an animal for 10 years. And how would that person eat? Even if they're like, at a brand new. You know what? I'm not brand new. Like a fancy restaurant in a brand new setting for them. And then the alcohol is that like, you know, she has been without that for 10 years. And that there's a certain amount of numbing and wanting to again, like, fill that void. But that was something that we, you know, especially in those early episodes when you don't know her story, they were windows into being like, wow, this woman is in this, you, white Chanel suit and she's eating a salad with her hands at, you know, like, it was just ways to show these little windows into the type of. What was like, roiling beneath.
- [14:37]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. I was going to ask you about after she's released from the mental institution, what was it like or what was the challenge of playing a woman who is unraveling?
- [14:47]
Cristin Milioti
I would say there that, like, you know, there's always challenges with. With making things or staying inside of, like, an intense mindset. But I was so thrilled the entire time to get to play with this complexity that it, like, challenge wasn't necessarily like. Doesn't feel like the right word. Yeah. It's like a. It was more. But. But I will say it does feel right for, like, I was always extremely afraid that I wasn't going to be doing her justice. That, like, I wanted to. I, I really. This sounds like, so actory and, and, you know, but I was very protective of her. I love this Character, and I really wanted to, like, thread the needle correctly of, like, showing the ways in which she is slowly driven mad and slow and showing the ways that she is slowly, you know, brought to the brink when she's out and, like, really wanting to take care with each beat and. And each, you know, level of rage and humiliation and grief that she is. Is put through. So it was more maybe just like, getting out a lot of the challenge was probably, like, getting out of my own way and getting out of, like, my own crippling nerves about, like, oh, God, I'm gonna mess this up, to be honest. Yeah, let's. I'd say that was like. That. That was exhausting.
- [16:12]
Alison Stewart
Talk to Chris from the Upper west side. Hi, Chris. Thanks for calling all of it.
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Chris
Oh, man, what a trip I've had to watch each episode twice and probably more. There's so much going on. But I think the heart of the show is this character. Yeah, she's tough and she's crazy and she's animalistic in some ways, but the moral heart of the show was there. And the empathy. You talked about the strength of her. Feminist strength, but the bonding of women, the feminist bonding that goes on these moments of empathy for Eve, that episode with Eve, the mom at the end, when she reaches out to her and says, where are you now? And gets spat upon for that, but slapped, actually slapped in the face. And her niece that she saves. I mean, just all levels, all age levels, class levels, that she has this inherent empathy for others that can be played. But it's just. To me, that's the heart of the show. When the Penguin shows empathy, you always. You never quite trust him, that he's. That he's not playing people. But with her, you feel it's real.
- [17:35]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling. Yeah, that history. Yeah, go ahead.
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Cristin Milioti
Oh, no, I was gonna say, like, you know, that's one of the things I really love about our show and love about Sophia and. And honestly, love about, like, the Batman universe, is that, like, I've always thought that these. These villains or, you know, even Batman himself, even Bruce Wayne, like, it all comes from broken hearts. Like, not to put too fine a point on it, but that's why they're acting the way they're acting. And especially with Sophia, like, you. You know, hopefully. And it's like, I. You understand that it's, like, from such a place of. Of having a heart broken. And this is what happens when care isn't taken and when, you know, and. And even in the. You know, like, that scene that you referenced with the. With the niece. Like, that was one of my favorite scenes to film. And I think what's so sad about that scene is that she is actually trying to give this child care, but ends up sentencing her to the same life that she had. You know, like, there's so many moments of, like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is what. This is the way in which grief can. And pain can, like, warp someone, that even when they're trying to do something good, it's coming out bad, you know, and it's. And I just think that that's, like, for a heightened world, like, it's. It's so human. So I. So I. I love to hear that, and thank you.
- [19:01]
Alison Stewart
All right, we're giving people a little bit of a spoiler warning just because we have a couple of texts just for people who haven't watched yet. This says, your performance was so amazing. The level to which you showed empathy to the other woman was so graceful. The Oedipus complex that Oz has is so intense. And you press on that, and Oz still does. Not relentless. Do you make of that?
- [19:22]
Cristin Milioti
Oh, wow. Well, I mean, you know, I think part of what makes them such incredible adversaries is that they. There. It. It has to do with their history and the fact that they. They both know how to hurt the other one the most. You know, he ends up hurting her in the worst way possible and vice versa. She understands that, like, to him, the image he projects is everything. And so I think when she sees that, not even being confronted by the truth of his mother and her feelings about him and all these things that happen in that episode, it's probably like, a state of wonder at, like, oh, my God, look at how deep this illness goes. And it kind of harkens back to, you know, what she says earlier to Dr. Rush at one point. She says, I'm not broken. The world is broken. And, you know, I'm not the one who's sick. It's everyone around me. And at that, I felt like there were, like, echoes of that in there. You know, that. Yeah, I don't know if that answered it. That's just, like, what came to my brain.
- [20:32]
Alison Stewart
And this text says, I felt like the finale of the show mirrored the election. The smart woman who was better and deeper and smarter gets better bested by the thug. What do you find people are connecting to when they talk to you about Sophia?
- [20:45]
Cristin Milioti
I mean, you know, of course, that went through my mind as well. You know, I sat there at a bar with friends watching the Television. And I thought, but that thought crossed my mind a few times and you know, that was a heartbreaking episode to film just because, you know, you hate or I hate to see that that's her fate. But, and also I think it's so affecting because we've seen that time and time and time again. But certainly the way in which this aired at the same exact time, you know, a couple days afterward, I think is a, is an extra punch to the gut. And I think that people's reactions to it, I mean, my own reaction to it, it's, it's, it's horrifying and it's mystifying. I will never understand this country's disdain toward women. I'll never understand it. And like, I, I, and yeah, you know, I don't know, I don't know how you sit with that and make sense of it, but certainly the show reflecting that too, I think it reflects it for a reason because it feels very real.
- [21:57]
Alison Stewart
Did anyone ever approach you about seeing in the show? I know that sounds wacky about singing, just singing.
- [22:05]
Cristin Milioti
No, I also, you know, I've been on other shows where people ask me to sing and, and I'm always very flattered, but I'm always like, oh, you know, I don't think this character would sing. I like, I, I, but I, I miss, I'm, I'm, I miss singing so much. I mean, I sing, I sing. I sang at a friend's show recently. I, you know, I still do it, but I, I do miss the feeling of doing that regularly and as a piece inside of a piece.
- [22:38]
Alison Stewart
She's got a great voice, by the way. That was my conversation with Emmy nominated actor Cristin Milioti. She stars in the Penguin. Mark Kurlansky is a James Beard award winning author known for writing books about food. So it's fitting that his latest novel is centered around a cheesecake. Coming up, he joins us to discuss his story and how the Upper west side served as an inspiration. That's next, right after the latest news.
- [23:08]
Hershey's Marketing Team
Hershey's Milk Chocolate with whole almonds makes for a wholly amazing, wholly delicious experience that's, well, holy Hershey's. Everyone should get to experience the satisfying surprise of a whole almond tucked inside creamy Hershey's chocolate. So don't wait your whole life to try Hershey's Milk Chocolate with whole almonds. And if you've already had it, then, chances are you're already a lifelong fan of this confectionary delight. Find Hershey's Milk Chocolate with whole almonds wherever candy is sold.
- [23:39]
Babs
Hey everybody, it's Babs. I am so excited to tell you about Birch Lane, a brand that shares my passion for classic style and joyful living. Their classic furniture and decor helps you celebrate it all. From big holiday gatherings to everyday moments at home, each piece is carefully crafted and delivered fast and free so you can celebrate what matters most. Shop my hand picked Birch Lane Collection and more classic styles@birchlane.com.