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This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The year was 1981. A man named Frank D. Hickenbotham founded the first TCBY in Arkansas. That was an acronym for this can't be yogurt, which became the country's best yogurt. Fast forward to 2009 and froyo seemed to be everywhere. Sixteen candles, Pinkberry. But like other food fads, like muffin tops, it fell by the wayside. It also became a punchline. Maybe you remember this running joke from the NBC show the Good Place where Kristen Bell and Ted Danson what is it with you and frozen yogurt? Have you not heard of ice cream?
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C
Oh, sure. But I've come to really like frozen yogurt. There's something so human about taking something great and ruining it a little so you can have more of it.
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B
It is very human.
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A
Maybe you agree with that assessment or maybe you're shaking your head because frozen yogurt is back, baby. And it appears to be having a renaissance. Joining us now to talk about Froyo's comeback is Brian Kim, the editorial lead for the Infatuation Brio. Brian, welcome to wnyc.
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B
Hi. Thanks for having me.
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We want to know what you think about frozen yogurt. Have you noticed this renaissance? Are you a loyalist who thinks frozen yogurt never really went away? Have you waited in line at one of the trendy new spots? Do you have recommendations for a good spot or criteria think that makes frozen yogurt truly delicious? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. W, N Y C. So before we dive in, let's cover the basics. What separates good froyo from meh. Froyo.
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B
It's going to be a matter of personal taste. All these froyo places are just a little bit different. So in our guide on theinfatuation.com, we have, we have a guide to the best frozen yogurt places and we've ranked them based on how much do they actually taste like yogurt. Right. That seems to be the main thing people disagree on.
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Okay.
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B
Do you want to be eating something that actually tastes like yogurt? Like has More lactic acid produced during the fermentation process, or do you want to eat something that's, like, pretty much soft serve? So it depends on your palate. I can go for both. Some days I like something tangy. Some days I just want to eat some soft serve.
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A
You just want some sweet treat?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Can you compare Froyo 2026 to Froyo in 2009, even back to 1981. What was the evolution of it?
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B
So it actually goes back further than 1981. If you want to go all the way back, it's the early 1970s, right? And froyo is invented by this company called HP Hood, based in Massachusetts. And then it's served at 40 carats in Bloomingdale's. And I think that's really where the Froyo craze takes off. If you go all the way back to 1975, when 40 carats opened in Bloomingdale's, you'll see New York Times articles talking about this crazy new food that everyone's going wild for. It's called Froyo. And then from that point on, every 15 years, right, you have people talking about a Froyo craze. So this is not the first one we've been in. It's not even the second one. I would say it's probably the third. You have it in these generational waves. The first one is 40 carats. And then you have. I can't believe it's yogurt in that wave. And tcby and then Tasty Delight at the end of it.
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Tasty Delight.
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B
Tasty Delight. I thought about Tasty Delight. All of these places used to be everywhere, too, and then they kind of disappeared. And what took their place? Pinkberry, red mango and 16 handles in the early 2000s. This is around 2005 to 2011. And then those places, Orange Leaf, too,
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was here for a minute.
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B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you remember on Bleecker street, there used to be a Pinkberry and a red mango right across the street from one another in Greenwich Village? And I would always walk by, and I was like, why do we need these?
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Why do we need these?
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And they're both closed now. But in Greenwich Village, we have all of these new spots that have opened
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up and have opened up across the street from each other, which is even funnier. In fact, you brought me some, which was lovely of you to bring. This is from Birdies. What are the toppings? It's so amazing.
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I don't know. I went wild. I think one has rainbow sprinkles M&M's, and I don't know what, does that look like Oreos on there?
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Okay.
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The other one has my favorite topping from Birdie's. This is Birdie's in the West Village. It opened earlier this year, and it has Biscoff Crunch on it.
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Oh, that's me.
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B
Yeah.
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Okay, I'm gonna try this. Let me think of a question I can ask you that takes a little bit of time. Tell me about the toppings. Because the toppings have changed over time. It used to be just sort of like M and M's, but now you can get Dubai chocolate, et cetera. Okay.
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B
Yeah. So the toppings definitely have gotten a little fancier. But even if you go to Pinkberry nowadays, the toppings are incredible. They have so many toppings. That said, we have. We have, like, more boutique toppings nowadays if you go to somewhere like Madison Fair, which opened a location in Greenwich Village. It started on the Upper east side, but it opened, I want to say, last year in Greenwich Village and is definitely part of this froyo craze.
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Hold on a second. I'm trying your. Your Biscoff.
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B
Oh, yeah. Give it a shot.
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I did not need to know that this was this good.
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B
It's so good.
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A
This is gonna be a problem. This is so good. Thank you for this. Anyway, continue.
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B
Of course. So Madison Fair has, like, you were saying, like, pistachio butter, and other places have olive oil that you can put on your frozen yogurt. So there is this market for these new, fancier toppings. Definitely.
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Okay, let's talk to Owen, who's calling from New Rochelle. Hey, Owen, thanks for calling, all of it.
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C
Hi, can you hear me?
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Hear you. Great.
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C
Okay, thanks. I just wanted to shout out a couple of fun facts. I was the original manager of the original store. This is 1976, and it was located at 52 Broadway. And it was called Everything Yogurt, which grew and had an international presence of 275 stores before its demise. And Steve and Richie were the founders, and they were, I believe, 22 years old when they put it together and then grew it. And it was an amazing place of health food. And frozen yogurt was the center of the attention of all foods made. So whatever you ordered, whatever healthy salad or tofu, egg salad, and all those forerunners to what we think of today as ubiquitous, you always had a cup of delicious frozen yogurt. And the toppings were endless.
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Thank you so much for calling in a true historian.
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B
Yeah, I forgot about everything. Yogurt. So it's good that we talked about that.
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A
It's interesting because he talked about this health food aspect of it. Was that the original sort of pitch for frozen yogur versus ice cream?
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B
I think definitely yes. So like I was saying, it kind of started out in 1975 at 40 carats in Bloomingdale's, which was like a health food bar. And people would talk about it as something that maybe had less fat or less calories than ice cream. Right. And I would say that was true through the first wave and the second wave. Healthiness was just a big part of the marketing. You wanted to eat fewer calories. Ice cream maybe tastes better, but frozen yogurt is allegedly better for you. And nowadays you see that marketing has kind of disappeared with all of these new spots. Mimi's, Birdies, Madison, Fair, Mica. None of them are really stressing how healthy it is. They might mention probiotics or live and active cultures. But I think we're moving away from the health thing and possibly because everybody already knows it, we're all kind of just aware of it already, and we assume it's better for us than soft serve.
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We're talking to Brian Kim, expert trendspotter and editorial lead for the Infatuation nyc. Here's to talk about the resurgence of frozen yogurt, and we're taking your calls on frozen yogurt. Have you noticed the Froyo renaissance? Are you a loyalist who thinks frozen yogurt has never really gone away? Have you waited in line for one of these trendy spots? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to Charlie, who wants your opinion on something. Charlie, you are on the air.
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C
Awesome. Thank you for having me. Long time fan. Love your work. Brian, I'm having a debate right now. Want to know your take on dirt and worms? Oreos and gummy worms? Is this, you know, is it kosher? Is it. Is it fair to put that in froyo? You know, need to settle this debate with a friend and want to get your take on it.
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B
I. Okay, so I love both of those things. Would I get them on Froyo? Probably not, but only because. Not because it wouldn't be delicious, because those gummy worms, they're gonna seize up. They're gonna get real hard. They're gonna be. You're gonna be chewing on those for a while, Right? That said, if that is your thing, absolutely, go for it. But there's probably a Reason you don't see a lot of gummy candy toppings. You'll see mochi toppings, but not a lot of gummy candy toppings at froyo spots. And it's probably a logistical thing. You can't be chewing for an hour.
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This says. Are there any frozen yogurt shops in NYC these days that only use antibiotic, hormone free or organic dairy? Or are they all using a commercially produced conventional milk?
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B
They all use a different. You know, I think most of them use a different blend. So I don't know. Off the top of my head, I would check out their websites, see what wording they use. But definitely a lot of them do emphasize all natural in their marketing. So I would look into that because probably.
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So on my way to wnyc, I walk to work and I walk sort of through Frozen Yogurt Alley and Birdie's opened up, which was great. And I just tried it for the first, the second time I've had it. I hope it's not the last. But then Micah opened up across the street, literally across the street. And there are lines for both, but Micah has. It's a small shop and they say they have Greek frozen yogurt. Is it that different? Is Greek frozen yogurt different from frozen yogurt?
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B
They are similar, definitely. So I've been to both.
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A
Okay, please tell me more. I need to know more.
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B
I've been to both. Mica is, I would say, a little tangier than Birdie's. They use a different milk blend over there as well. So Greek frozen yogurt in my experience is also a little bit thicker and fattier too. Mica is similar to Madison Fair. I think, in my opinion, that's how it tastes tasted to me. And Birdie's is more like. It's really more like soft serve. And it's delicious. It's still thick and creamy, but not quite as thick, creamy and tangy as these Greek frozen yogurt places.
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A
And I notice when the people come out, they look like they have different kind of toppings at Mica.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember what they had, but they were definitely. They seemed a little fancier. I can't remember.
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A
A little fancier. Right. But also Bertie's kind of also reminded me a little bit of like a sweet shop, like a beautiful little ice cream store.
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B
Oh, yeah, they actually have a candy display in there.
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Let's talk to Kathryn calling in from Brooklyn. Hey, Catherine, thanks for calling all of it.
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Hi, how are you doing?
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Okay.
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So I Want to recommend Culture American Yogurt, which originally opened in Park Slope in Brooklyn, but they have a second location near NYU on 8th street, and a third is opening this week near Gramercy. It's a former student of mine who owns it, and they have a pasteurizer from Holland, and they actually process all of their own milk and make all the toppings and sauces predominantly from scratch.
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A
Wow, that's really interesting. So thank you so much for calling in. So culture is sort of like. It's that old school, but new school. It's in the 2000s. 2011. It started.
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B
Mm. Yeah. And the interesting thing is I've been to Culture a couple of times. It does have lines down the block, but it's also. It's also a little different than all of these other frozen yogurt shops. It tastes supremely tangy. So you know you're eating yogurt when you're there, and I am really into that. And apparently a lot of other people are as well.
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This says, I love frozen yogurt, but I'm lactose intolerant. Are there any alternatives? They serve sorbet at these places or is it just yogurt?
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B
It's. I think it's mostly yogurt. I'm going to be looking into this, though, because I've begun to suspect that I am also lactose intolerant.
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C
Wait a minute.
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After you did this whole thing, you realized.
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B
I went to 40 carrots in Bloomingdale's the other day, and I got a little frozen yogurt, which is supposed to be little, and it was huge. I ate the whole thing. This is before dinner. I'm eating dinner after this. I ate the whole thing, and I felt terrible later. I have no regrets, though. It was so good.
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You know, some of the lines around these places are kind of wild. Like, people wake up to 30 or 40 minutes. Tiff, get Froyo. Why are people willing to wait 30 or 40 minutes? Is the waiting part of it?
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B
I think for some people, the waiting is definitely part of it. There are so many parts of this question, though. It's. I waited at mica, but generally when I wait in lines, it's because of my job. I will almost never willingly wait in a line. But my sister was here in town, and she wanted to wait in line, so she just wanted to try it. So she wanted to try it so bad that we waited 30 minutes in line to try mica, and it was delicious. And then for a lot of other people, I think they just have fun Even if they don't admit it, have fun waiting in line. Because it's this activity you can do. It's something you can check off your list. And yeah, if you enjoy that, no judgment. The weather was nice. You know, you're outside chatting with a friend. Why not?
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This says Froyo recommendation. Mimi's, near NYU is amazing. Their plain flavor is a platonic ideal. That's from Julie in Brooklyn. I'm also curious. Do students have something to do with this? Why there are so many in the Village opening up?
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I would definitely say that's why there are so many in the Village. If you go to Mimi's, the new one on. It's in Greenwich Village on University. It is packed with NYU students. So they. They knew where to open, their location. But then if you go to the West Village, it's a little bit older, but the students definitely help.
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A
I wonder if it's sort of the idea that coffee used to be sort of a small luxury, because these aren't. They're inexpensive for ice cream, but they're not expensive if you're going out for drinks.
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B
Yeah. But also maybe just. It's maybe just Gen Z didn't. Nobody told them about frozen yogurt. Right. So they're just discovering it. We can't judge them because we did the same thing with Pinkberry and Red Mango, but nobody told them. And now we have these places opening up, and they're cute little neighborhood spots. They're not the national chains that are neon colored, which is crucial. They have, you know, monochromatic branding. And they're small businesses, and they just want to go and check them out and support them. So I support them supporting them.
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A
Something else that's different is I remember that used to be like, you went up to it and you could do it yourself. You could put as much as you want in your dish. And that seems to have gone away.
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B
It's still. You can still do that at certain places, such as Mimi's. The most, I think the most ridiculous of the Froyo spots, I do. I do enjoy it, though. But they literally have a Nutella fountain where you can. You can pour your own frozen yogurt, then dip it under a Nutella fountain.
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A telephone.
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Nutella fountain.
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A Nutella fountain.
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Yeah. It's like out of N U T
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L L A. Yeah. I do not need to know these things. That's all I have to say. Wow. I did want to ask you about Madison Fair because you mentioned it earlier, and it started on the Upper east side.
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B
Upper east side.
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A
So what's different about the Upper east side version of yogurt?
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B
The Upper east side version of yogurt, it is maybe a little, A little more minimalist and yeah, not quite. There isn't quite as much hype, but there still is a lot of hype. If you go to the Upper east side and you try to get yogurt at Butterfield Market or Madison Ferry, you're still gonna be waiting in a line down the block. So just very similar scenes, honestly.
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A
Oh, this is a text for the lactose intolerant. Caller 16 Handel collabs with Oatly to make a vegan froyo.
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B
Oh, nice.
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So there you go. Do you have a regular order at one of these places?
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B
I always lean in a peanut buttery direction. So if you have peanut butter fro yo, I'm probably gonna get it. I'm gonna top that peanut butter fro yo with peanut butter sauce and Reese's peanut butter cups.
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A
Anything that I had missed about frozen yogurt during your, your reporting on this story?
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B
I don't, I don't know. I don't think so. It's just like, I think that the crucial thing is, right, that branding is key nowadays and people don't want to go to these huge national chains anymore. All the 16 handles and the, the red mangoes and the pinkberries, which are still great, but people want something a little smaller, something that feels more like a friendly neighborhood spot. And that's gonna be the challenge for all of these really busy, friendly neighborhood spots going forward because you know they're going to expand and they already have
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started To Brian Kim. He's an expert trend editor and he's editorial lead for the Infatuation nyc. You can check out his article. Thank you so much for joining us to talk about frozen yogurt. And thanks for the frozen yogurt, of course.
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Enjoy.
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