← All Of It with Alison Stewart
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- [00:00]
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Alison Stewart
You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Our musical guests for our spring get lit finale were John Linnell and John Flansburg, aka they Might Be Giants. This year is the 40th anniversary of their debut album. Since forming the band in Brooklyn in the 1980s, they've cemented themselves as a prolific and beloved feature of the alt rock landscape. They just released their 24th album titled the World is to Dig. They're also on tour around the country. We were thrilled that they Might Be Giants were able to join us for our May get lit season finale. We're going to hear my interview with them in just a bit, but first, some music. They put together a special set list inspired by Tom Parotta's novels for their election themed pick, here's a live performance of their song. James K. Polk.
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Narrator / Reader
In 1844, the dam Democrats were split. The three nominees for the presidential candidate were Martin Van Buren, a former president and an abolitionist. James Buchanan, a moderate. Lewis Cass, a general land expansionist. From Nashville came a dark horse ride Riding up he was James K. Polk, Napoleon of the stone. Austere, severe, he held few people dear. His oratory filled his foes with fear. The faction soon agreed. He's just the man we need to bring about victory Fulfill our man, manifest destiny and the next the land the Mexicans command. And when the votes were cast, the winner was Mr. James K. Pope, Napoleon of the Stump.
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John Linnell
Flansburg.
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Narrator / Reader
Explain,
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Marty Beller
Sam.
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Narrator / Reader
In four short years, he met his every goal. He seized the whole southwest from Mexico, made sure the tariffs fell and made the English sell the Oregon territory. He built an independent treasury. Having done all this, he sought no second ch. But precious few have mourned the passing of Mr. James K. Polk, our 11th president. Young Hickory Napoleon of the stump.
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John Linnell
Thank you very much.
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Alison Stewart
They might be giants. Can you hear me? And this is Marty Beller on. It's nice to meet you. Nice to speak with you again after so many years. After so many years. Mr. Linnell, when did you first start recording the World Is Too Dig?
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John Linnell
I can't remember. It was, you know, it was kind of in the midst of a lot of chaos that was going on for us. We, you know, we had, we suffered. We Suffered a bunch of personal mishaps, and. And there was a Covid crisis, and we were kind of dovetailing out of the previous recording that we did. Mr. Flansburg, do you care to.
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John Flansburg
Oh, I was just thinking back on the bad times.
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Narrator / Reader
Right.
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Alison Stewart
Oh, no.
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John Flansburg
Oh, no. Yeah, yeah.
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Narrator / Reader
It's been. It's actually been a long gap.
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John Flansburg
It's been a crucible. When you said 24 albums, I was like, why not 25?
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Alison Stewart
There's still time. There's still time. Mr. Flansburg, you said this album, like, our first album, was all made by the same people at the same time in the same place.
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John Flansburg
That's true.
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Alison Stewart
Why is that important?
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John Flansburg
Well, I think, you know, I mean, the album, the. The out. The musical album as, like, a form of artistic output, which is like. Like so many cultural things these days. It's kind of like an endangered species. It's like what it represents is kind of up for grabs. And a lot of times, you know, people will come at you and sort of say, like, is this a concept album? Or, you know, like, what's the deal? But I think there is something about making making a whole musical project in a moment that kind of freezes it in a very exciting way. And so it's. It was just really. I was probably responding to the, like, is this a concept album? Thing, which our albums never are, but. But they are related to each other. Like, they do sort of hang together in a way that's actually kind of its own, like. And, like our very first album, the thing I like about our better work is that it sort of is that it feels. Well, I can say that, you know, it's. This is a good. It's a good album, but it's like. It hangs together like its own, like, little musical universe. And that's kind of like the most exciting thing for me.
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Alison Stewart
You've made 24. Soon be 25. Could be 25 albums. Your fans will buy your records because they love you and they love you hearing your music. But how do you stay engaged? How do you stay engaged after recording so many albums?
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John Linnell
Well, I think we're just compulsive. You know, I think that that's the. That's the. The trick to the whole project, really, is that we just keep doing it because we're compelled to, and there isn't really some sense of, you know, that there's some. There's no outer force. That's. That's. That's. I mean, we do, like. We do, like, making a living at it. That's it's helpful that we do make money and we do make a living doing this. And. And sometimes we do kind of fall back, oh, you know, I gotta make a record because I got bills to pay. But really, it's. I think we'd be doing this, you know, if we were not making any money. We'd be, you know, something to look forward to. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
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Alison Stewart
The new album is 18 songs long. How did you. How many songs did you have to choose from?
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John Flansburg
Oh, probably. Probably something like 25 to 30. I mean, song is a big word,
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John Linnell
but that's our usual methodology. We try and get a big pile together, and then we select this stuff that looks, as John said, looks like it'll hang together as a record. And, you know, it's a luxury. I mean, we. We do write a lot of songs and there's two of us writing, so, you know, we. But we spent longer, I think, on this one that we. Than we spent. Spent in quite a while on another record.
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Alison Stewart
What was the hardest song to figure out? Should it be on this album?
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John Flansburg
Well, probably something that didn't make the record, but no, I mean, you know, I think as songwriter, like, as active songwriters, you do find yourself often, like, painting yourself into a corner, and it's really hard to break out of that. I mean, you know that, like, third verses are really difficult. Bridget Bridges can be impossible, you know, and so you sort of. You decide you're. There are all these different points in kind of putting a song together where you think it's finished, but you're kind of lying to yourself. Like, it's like you're confident that you can, like, start working on the end product rather than the. The first draft. So it's like, it's all. It's all. It's a. It's a kind of an exercise. And sometimes you realize, like, you really don't have any words except, like, the title line, and then you're just. You're painted in the corner.
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Alison Stewart
All right, you have to tell me if this is true or not, because the Internet, it said that the world is to dig is a reference to the 1950s children's book A Hole is to Dig.
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John Flansburg
Yes, that's absolutely true.
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Alison Stewart
By Ruth Krauss, with illustrations by Maurice Sendak.
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John Flansburg
Yes. One of his very earliest jobs. And for all you art history buffs out there, her previous illustrator collaborator was Ad Reinhardt, one of the most impossible painters ever and a very celebrated educator in the New York City area. He painted the paintings that are completely black, and people are like, I Mean, it's like, beyond the. My kid could do that.
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John Linnell
My kid wouldn't do that, right?
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John Flansburg
Nobody's kid is doing his. What dad Reinhardt was doing. But I guess she got. I guess Ruth got sick of Ad Reinhardt and moved on to Maurice Sendak, who was a little more jovial.
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Alison Stewart
The book we talked about tonight by Tom Perotta, Ghost Town, is about being a teenager in the 70s, as you both were. What was important to you when you were a teenage John Linnell?
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John Linnell
Well, I guess, you know, we had a social group and we shared a lot of, you know, sensibilities. Then I, you know, I guess, I mean, when I'm thinking about, like, in terms of, like, developing as musicians, like, there was this notion that there was popular culture and then there was this. What we then thought of as underground culture. There was underground radio, there was popular radio, and they were both important, you know, and the weird thing was that, you know, you use this, the underground thing to kind of identify yourself. But popular culture was just as, you know, the Beatles were just as important and AM radio. So it was that notion of, you know, it's all up for grabs. Like, you. You get. You get to have all of that, you know, even. Even as punk rock was kind of emerging. I remember, you know, John and I both admired abba, for example. You know, like, there was. There was plenty of still, like, just nakedly commercial stuff that was. It was just as good and just as cool and interesting.
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Alison Stewart
What about for you? What was important to you as a teenager?
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John Flansburg
I had an ABBA T shirt that was very, very important to me. I worked in a record store. I mean, it's interesting to live. You know, people talk about the monoculture a lot, like, in how the monoculture is going away. And a lot of times I sort of, like, celebrate that because I sort of think, like, I've sort of had enough of them, the monoculture. But the idea of, like, an actual dominant subculture is something that's very different than everybody just off in their own little corners. And I keep on coming back to corners. But, no, it's so different. It's so completely different. I mean, music culture is so completely different. Having grown up, like, obsessed with music, you know, we live in this incredibly democratized time. And, you know, people. You know, people are always asking us, like, you know, do you have any advice for. For, like, new young musicians? And it's like. It's like, stop. You know, save yourself. It's too late. It's too late for us. You know, I don't know. It's just. It's such a different time. There are lots of things about it that I can relate to. There are things about it I can't relate to, but it's just. It's just a different world, and. And it keeps on getting more different.
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Alison Stewart
You play a couple more songs for us?
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John Flansburg
Yeah, sure.
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Alison Stewart
All right. They Might Be Giants.
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John Flansburg
So this is a song that we put on the set list because we, you know, we thought it'd be like. This would come after the leftovers portion of the program.
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Narrator / Reader
Draw the curtain. Look, you're only sleeping. Or is this only what the other you is dreaming? Either way, hard to take ashen features unmistakably your own familiar posture Recast in skin and bone Person from today, here is you in 2082. Remove your helmet first. Equalize the pressure. No. But first take readings to be sure the atmosphere is safe. Yes, it's safe. As the ancient one cranes his neck to look, you see his hand's been replaced with a hook but it's clear you're very much alive. It's 2105. No, it's 2240. No, it's 2415. How can you still be living? What does this mean? You must honor and respect the older fellow even as you suffocate him with his pillow. Though you're strong, he was wise. There is much you can learn from the sage. And though you leave and travel back to your old age, you will meet again, you two, in 2082. What was the look he gave intended to convey? Was there something else he was trying to say? It will all be revealed to you in 2082 to. 2082.
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John Flansburg
Hey, thank you so much, everybody. We want to thank everybody at all of it for being so nice all afternoon long. This is like a. A kooky gig for us. This is our last song. It's called how can I sing like a girl?
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Marty Beller
Birds are calling to sing along but my window's painted shut and all that year of chorus taught me Is out of style and long for God how can I sing like a girl and not be stigmatized by the rest of the world? Tell me how can I sing like a girl and not be objectified as if I were a girl? I want to raise my freak flag Higher and higher, higher and I want to raise my freak flag and never be alone Never be alone Rock me, John. From the watchtowers I've been spotted Fingers pointing at my mouth Spotlights turn and pivot towards me But I dare not make a sound how can I sing like a girl and not be stigmatized by the rest of the world? Tell me how can I sing like a girl and not be objectified as if I were a girl?
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John Flansburg
Thank you so much.
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Alison Stewart
That was they Might be giants performing 2082 and how can I Sing Like a Girl? From our May Get Lit with all of it book Club event with author Tom Parada. Get lit will be back in September with a very, very exciting event. But for now, I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.
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Wise Wise / Amica Insurance / Applebee's Announcer
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John Linnell
That's why we work even harder to
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Alison Stewart
protect what matters most.
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Wise Wise / Amica Insurance / Applebee's Announcer
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Alison Stewart
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