Podcast Summary:

All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: 'Get Your Ass in the Water and Swim Like Me' Adapts 'Toasts' for the Stage
Date: January 29, 2024
Guests:

• Eric Berryman (Performer, Creator)
• Kate Valk (Director, Founding member of The Wooster Group)

Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores the stage adaptation of "toasts"—African American oral histories and folk poems—through the production Get Your Ass in the Water and Swim Like Me, currently running at New York's Performing Garage. Host Alison Stewart interviews performer/creator Eric Berryman and director Kate Valk about the process of translating these sometimes raunchy, larger-than-life oral narratives into live theater. The episode probes both the artistry and cultural complexity of toasts, their social context, and the creative decisions behind their modern performance.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Are Toasts? (02:30–03:47)

• Oral Narrative Poetry:
  Eric describes toasts as:

  "Oral narrative poetry...there's a beginning, a middle and an end, oftentimes in rhyming couplet aabb. But then to see or witness a toast teller break that form, return to it, come back and forth, is interesting."
  (Eric Berryman, 02:37)

• Traditionally Performed, Not Written:
  Performed in group settings, often among men, toasts have a "Homeric," fantastical scope, filled with exaggeration and boasting.

• Fantastical, Not Realism:

  "They're not meant to be from reality...one has to say 12 or 20 or 4 yards [for something], so that we understand that this is fantasy."
  (Eric Berryman, 03:38)

2. Why Toasts Make Rich Theater Material (03:47–05:09)

• Vivid Characters and Clever Wordplay:
  Kate Valk praises the "larger than life" characters and the wit and rhythm of the source material.

• Challenge: Contextualizing for the Audience:
  Valk explains that understanding and contextualizing the material for contemporary audiences was a major directorial concern.

  “A big part of my journey as director was finding out why Eric was so passionate about them...the material is outrageous. And maybe we're breaking a tradition by creating a show where a paying public comes and sits and experiences them in a theatrical production.” (Kate Valk, 03:57)

3. Design Choices: Framing Toasts as Late-Night Radio (05:09–09:11)

• Radio Studio Setup:
  The show’s set mimics a radio station, emphasizing intimacy and informality—like a late-night DJ talking to an invisible audience.

  "We began to think about storytellers and ways of modern storytelling that we love. Stand up [comedy] was a huge influence...then we started to look at late night shows."
  (Eric, 05:32)

• Live Audience and ‘Breaking the Barrier’:
  The theater audience is brought close, even seated on the stage—mirroring historic live recording setups.

• Drummer as Onstage Banter Partner:
  Interaction with the live drummer (Jairus), inspired by both late-night talk shows and the Korean pansori tradition (solo storyteller with live percussion).

  "We wanted to have drummer in relationship to the host."
  (Kate, 06:18)

• Homage to Radio Legends:
  Inspiration from legendary radio hosts Bob Fass (midnight freeform radio) and "Jack the Rapper" (midwestern 1940s Black DJ).

4. Improvisation and Banter: Contrasting Masculinities (09:11–12:36)

• Spontaneous Banter as a Counterpoint:
  The only unscripted part of the show is Berryman's nightly banter with drummer Jairus, which provides modern, nuanced perspectives on Black masculinity.

  "No matter what we talk about and I ask, it relates...these ruminations on kind of black male masculinity and both breaking down what that means...it just adds a complexity to not only the modern black man, but makes you go, well, I'm sure that their forefathers must have also been this complex."
  (Eric, 11:29)

• Personal Anecdotes as Balance:
  These moments humanize and update the themes, countering the exaggerated, sometimes problematic portrayals in the toasts themselves.

5. Performance Excerpt: The 'Titanic' Toast (13:03–14:07)

• A lively audio clip features Berryman performing the "Shine on the Titanic" toast—a story where Shine, a Black worker, defies authority and survives the doomed ship.

  "Now the sergeant and captain was having some words when they hit that big iceberg / Up comes Shine from down below, he said, captain, captain, so you don't know / Said we got nine feet of water over the ballroom floor..."
  (Performance Clip, 13:24)

6. Profanity, Wordplay, and Social Commentary in Toasts (14:25–19:11)

• Profanity as Poetic Tool:
  Berryman states,

  "It is the language of the people. It is poetic. Sometimes you can only...say something better in this language or get to the point. Sam Jackson...says a similar thing about 'MFER'—sometimes it just really gives it the emphasis..."
  (Eric, 14:28)

• Rhythm and Liberation:
  Profanity is essential for rhythm; removing it diminishes the poetry. Kate adds it's a type of liberation and camaraderie among the storytellers.

  "Might it also be an act of liberation? To be able, in your congregation of friends, that you can use profanity."
  (Kate, 15:48)

• Addressing Misogyny and Taboo Content:
  The co-creators acknowledge that toasts include misogyny and sexual violence. Valk notes these are found throughout pop culture, but the toasts display "incredible wordplay" that exceeds mere provocation—it's about creative one-upmanship.

  "It's an act of one-upmanship...To outdo, to boast, to incite laughter, to incite wow to one up."
  (Eric, 16:50)

• Evolution and Personalization:
  Sharing different, sometimes more outrageous versions of classic toasts is traditional—each storyteller brings their own twist. Their stage show, too, is a modern layer in this tradition.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the fantastical nature of toasts:

  “If you’re talking about the length of a character’s member to, say, six inches, well, that’s not funny, and that’s not good. So one has to say 12 or 20 or 4 yards...so that we understand that this is fantasy.”
  (Eric, 03:38)

• On why the show uses a radio studio setting:

  “We started to look at late night shows… the interaction between host and person, host and band.”
  (Eric, 05:32)

• On unscripted banter and masculinity:

  “These ruminations on kind of black male masculinity...provide a counterpoint to the black masculinity that you’re hearing in the toast.”
  (Eric, 11:29)

• On profanity in the toasts:

  "There are times where you can point to—if I take the curse word out, it loses the rhythm...it is poetic."
  (Eric, 15:15)

• On the evolving nature of folktales:

  "A toast teller had the ability—and with all folklore—for it to really become their own. And in many ways our production is yet another step in that direction..."
  (Eric, 19:00)

Important Timestamps

• 00:18: Episode introduction and backstory on "Get Your Ass in the Water and Swim Like Me"
• 02:08: Kate Valk and Eric Berryman join the discussion
• 02:30–03:47: What are toasts, and how do they differ from other oral traditions?
• 05:09–09:11: How the stage production was conceived in a radio station format
• 09:11–12:36: Banter with Jairus the drummer; representation of different Black masculinities
• 13:03–14:07: Performance excerpt: "Shine on the Titanic"
• 14:25–19:11: Discussion of profanity, wordplay, social critique, and adaptation for modern audiences

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is enthusiastic, analytical, and at times playful. Both host and guests show deep appreciation for the tradition of toasts, while also recognizing the need to contextualize, challenge, and update their content for today's audiences. The guests balance respect for cultural roots with creative innovation, offering a blend of scholarship, wit, and artistic passion.

For Further Engagement

• Get Your Ass in the Water and Swim Like Me ran at the Performing Garage (33 Wooster Street) through February 3, 2024.
• The show aims to bring a classic, complex, and sometimes controversial oral tradition into dialogue with modern theater, radio, and popular culture.