Giant' Interrogates the Anti-Semitic Views of Beloved Children's Author Roald Dahl

Summary

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Episode Title: 'Giant' Interrogates the Anti-Semitic Views of Beloved Children's Author Roald Dahl
Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Air Date: May 18, 2026
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Mark Rosenblatt (Playwright, "Giant"), Aya Cash (Actor, "Jesse Stone")

In this thought-provoking episode, Alison Stewart sits down with playwright Mark Rosenblatt and actor Aya Cash to discuss Giant, the Tony-nominated play that explores a turbulent episode in the later life of beloved children's author Roald Dahl. Set in 1983, the play dramatizes the fallout from Dahl's inflammatory comments about Israel, which were widely regarded as anti-Semitic, and centers on a tense, complex confrontation between Dahl and his American publisher, Jesse Stone—a Jewish woman played by Cash. The discussion delves into themes of identity, complicity, the legacy of literary figures, and the responsibilities of artists and those who work with them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Story and Its Origins

• Mark Rosenblatt’s Shift from Director to Playwright (02:05–03:07)
  • Rosenblatt describes his unexpected move into playwriting, noting that the idea for Giant emerged organically from his research into an actual incident in Dahl’s career. Initially, the idea was to direct, but director Nicholas Hytner encouraged him to script it himself.
  • Quote:

    “He felt that I had spoken so persuasively about it and had such a clear sense of it that giving it to another writer... might kind of take it off in a direction that I hadn't envisaged.” (Mark Rosenblatt, 02:22)

Constructing the Character of Jesse Stone

• Building a New Protagonist (03:11–06:51)
  • Cash reveals her immediate connection to the role, describing Jesse as “incredibly intelligent,” “patient,” and “steely.”
  • Jesse enters a realm where she is both an outsider (as an American among Brits) and a catalyst, challenging Dahl and navigating compounded gender, religious, and professional dynamics.
  • Rosenblatt explains the evolution of Jesse’s character—originally intended as a male publisher, but later reimagined as a younger, less powerful woman, allowing the play to explore themes of misogyny and shifting power structures.
  • Quote:

    “And maybe it's more interesting if it's also not a man. And that allows a space for misogyny and power dynamics that suddenly became much more exciting to write.” (Rosenblatt, 05:20)

Exploring Power, Identity, and Survival

• Jesse’s Mission & Motivations (06:51–08:03)

  • Jesse's role is ambiguous even to her; she’s navigating incomplete information, expectations from her superiors, and personal stakes.
  • There’s a tension between her professional obligation and personal identity, especially as a Jewish woman confronting Dahl.

• Jesse’s Interactions with Dahl—Excerpt from the Play (08:10–09:11)

  • The hosts play a scene showcasing the microaggressions and coded language Jesse encounters from Dahl, including questions about her ethnicity and religion.
  • Notable Moment:

    Dahl asks, “Are you Jewish?” and then persists in veiled ways, exposing Dahl's fixation and passive hostility.

Why Jesse Stays

• The Dilemma of Complicity and Necessity (12:38–13:56)
  • Cash explains Jesse’s endurance in the fraught situation—her need for the job, her responsibilities as a parent of a child with special needs, and the slow evolution of her moral stance as the encounter intensifies.
  • Quote:

    “She is a woman with a job and a child with special needs... every time I come on stage and no matter what he's saying to me, that is always in the back of my mind...” (Aya Cash, 13:38)

Ideological Tension and Unexpected Connections

• Agreeing and Disagreeing with Roald Dahl (10:37–12:38)
  • Cash points out that, surprisingly, Jesse sometimes agrees with Dahl’s calls to speak frankly, though not with the substance of his views.
  • Rosenblatt adds that both character and playwright entered the story as fans of Dahl, creating an internal tug-of-war between admiration for his literary genius and revulsion at his personal beliefs.
  • Quote:

    “She's dealing with two truths at once when she enters that house. The man that shaped her childhood... and the politics she's reading in that review.” (Mark Rosenblatt, 12:14)

The Power of Language—Play Excerpt

• Key Confrontation Scene (14:01–14:57)
  • Another powerful excerpt is played, in which Jesse pleads for an apology, articulating the enduring damage of Dahl’s words and linking them to historical trauma.
  • Quote:

    “You understand the power of language more than anyone... this kind of language, when the world comes for us again, when people like you won't protect us anymore, it sends me and my son somewhere Mr. Taft knows only too well.” (Aya Cash as Jesse, 14:23)

Performing Dahl—John Lithgow’s Portrayal

• Lithgow’s Duality (15:05–16:17)
  • Rosenblatt extols the actor’s nuanced performance, highlighting his ability to weave Dahl’s charisma and menace and to make the role both appealing and chilling.
  • Quote:

    “He is—he’s like a Rolls Royce, you know, and he just... the engine starts to roar... incredible levels of charm and... the darker controlling and calculated side...” (Mark Rosenblatt, 15:12)

Stage to Screen

• Filmed Play, Not Film Adaptation (16:17–17:23)
  • Cash clarifies that the forthcoming screen version is not a cinematic adaptation but a filmed performance capturing the immediacy of live theater, making the experience accessible to wider audiences.
  • Quote:

    “For me... it was like a little portal into a world that either I couldn’t afford or I couldn’t get to, you know, and that feels really special...” (Aya Cash, 16:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Patience is not perfection. Patience is not sanctum.” (Aya Cash on Jesse Stone, 06:21)
• “It's an animal instinct that starts to happen.” (Mark Rosenblatt on Dahl's behavior, 10:27)
• “You should speak up, you should say what you think. Like, don't be craven, say what you believe. Stand up. And I think in some ways Jesse agrees.” (Aya Cash, 11:23)
• “You're dealing with two truths at once when she enters that house.” (Mark Rosenblatt, 12:14)
• Profound on-screen scene:

  “Just apologize... when the world comes for us again... it sends me and my son somewhere Mr. Taff knows only too well.” (Aya Cash as Jesse Stone, 14:23–14:57)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Playwright's journey to writing Giant – 02:05–03:07
• Aya Cash on Jesse’s role and power dynamics – 03:51–06:51
• Creation and adaptation of Jesse Stone’s character – 04:28–06:05
• Scene: Jesse’s first interaction with Dahl – 08:10–09:11
• Why Jesse stays (and the realities for women/parents in the workplace) – 12:47–13:56
• Scene: Jesse pleads for an apology – 14:01–14:57
• John Lithgow’s performance and influence on the role – 15:05–16:17
• Stage vs. Screen—bringing live theater to film – 16:31–17:23

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Tone and Language

The conversation is candid, thoughtful, and deeply engaged with issues of history, legacy, and the interpersonal drama at the play's heart. Both guests speak frankly about the difficult themes, their creative decisions, and the balance between love for Dahl’s art and condemnation of his views. The exchange maintains a respectful but honest tone, mirroring the searching spirit of Giant itself.

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For Listeners

This episode offers rich insights for anyone interested in theater, the tangled legacy of celebrated artists, or the complexities of confronting anti-Semitism and misogyny within beloved cultural institutions. The nuanced discussion invites listeners to grapple with hard questions about the art we cherish and the truths we must face.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In the Tony nominated play Giant. The year is 1983. Beloved children's book author Raoul Dahl is at his home in the English countryside which is under renovation. While Dahl himself is under fire, he's caused an uproar with a book review he wrote about Israel's siege of Lebanon. Within his critique of Israel were anti Semitic statements. Now Dahl's New York and London publishers have come to convince the best selling author to apologize and make amends. Jessica Stone is a young American woman who works for Dahl's publisher in America. She's sure that if Dahl just admits that he phrased his dissent carelessly, all the controversy will die down. Instead, over the course of one hot afternoon, Dahl doubles down and triples down. And Jesse, a Jewish woman, becomes the center of Dahl's anger. Giant was written by Mark Rosenblatt, his first play. He's normally a director, but gave that role up to Nicholas Heitner for this project. It's nominated for four Tony Awards, including Best Play and Best Supporting Actress nomination for Aya Cash, who plays Jesse Stone. It has been announced the film version of the production will hit movie theaters later this year. But for now, you can see it at the Music Box Theater on Broadway. I'm joined now by playwright Mark Rosenblatt. Nice to meet you.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Nice to meet you.

[Alison Stewart]

And Aya Cash. Nice to meet you as well.

[Aya Cash]

You as well.

[Alison Stewart]

So you spent a long time as a theater director. What made you go over to the dark side? Why did you decide to write a play?

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Yeah, I was. I was totally unexpected and completely startling to find myself writing a play at all. Yeah, as you said, I was right. I was a kind of freelance theater director. Sometimes freelance theater directors need to come up with their own ideas for projects, maybe find a writer. I had this, this idea and I mentioned it to Nick Heitner, Nicholas Lightner, our director, and back in 2018. And he seemed to like the idea. And eventually, about a year later, I did some work on it. He said, you know, why don't you write it? And, I don't know, it lit something up in me. And he felt that I. I was sort of. Had spoken so persuasively about it and had such a sort of clear sense of it that giving it to another writer, an actual writer to do, might kind of take it off in a direction that I hadn't envisaged. So, I don't know, I was so steeped in it, I just thought, I'll have a go.

[Alison Stewart]

Aya, what did you see in your character that made you want to pursue it?

[Aya Cash]

I mean, I think first and foremost, I saw the play because when I read the play, I was literally sort of unable to move once I started. So that was the first thing I was excited about. It's just the entirety of the play. And then Jesse is incredibly intelligent and is in many ways the antagonist of this play. And getting to go head to head with ideas, let alone head to head with John Lithgow. Always appealing, I'm sure.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm sure. Do you think she's the antagonist?

[Aya Cash]

In many ways, she is set up to be that she comes into a space that is completely not hers. And honestly, we started this. I started this journey on the West End where being the American coming in was the stranger, was the sort of rip in the fabric. And there is. It starts with basically 15 minutes of these Brits being very British and funny, and then this American comes in and is just wrong in a certain way. And.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, it's so funny you should say that. I was going to ask you, because your American ness does come through. How did you think about that, Mark, when you were writing the play about making Jesse an American?

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Well, right at the beginning, the idea was always to have a British and American publisher come to town to kind of work him over, to try and get him to make some kind of conciliatory statement. In my research at the very beginning, I got it wrong. And my plan, which was that Robert Gottlieb had been Dahl's publisher, and I just got the dates wrong when I was just kind of outlining. He had already sacked Dahl from Knopf two years before. So in my original plan, it was these two guys, you know, Robert Gottlieb and Tom Mashler. Tom Mashler is the British publisher, creator of a real person, the inventor of the. The founder of the Booker Prize, like. And it's a sort of Wunderkind of British publishing. And so I had these two guys in the room, and then I realized I was just wrong and he was. He couldn't have been in the room. And I had a vacancy. And I just thought, it's. So this is a real opportunity now. It's much more interesting to me to maybe find someone who is. I don't know, Quick calculation was like lower ranking, less of an. A kind of obvious alpha, less the guy in editorial with all the power, someone who's sort of busking, someone who's been sent to do a job. And maybe it's more interesting if it's also not a man. And that allows a space for misogyny and power dynamics that suddenly became much more exciting to write.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. What are three characteristics that you would describe Jessie Stone as? As somebody who's never met her.

[Aya Cash]

Smart, patient and steely until.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, she's patient till that particular moment.

[Aya Cash]

Yeah, but, I mean, that's a lot of patience. Patience is not perfection. Patience is not sanctum. So, yeah, I would say that she's all of those things, but unexpectedly so, I don't think. And she is a woman in Publishing in 1983, and there is a certain amount of deference that she comes in with and playing the role of woman, which I think a lot of women have had to play in spaces with men.

[Alison Stewart]

What is Jesse's mission when she heads over to Roald Dahl's house?

[Aya Cash]

So she's not quite sure because she has not been totally briefed, but she knows that she's come to talk about his review, which she's maybe on the tube, started making her notes about what he said wrong. We discussed this a little bit in rehearsal in the UK about just how. How she's gotten to this moment and she's late. She has not talked to Mashler about what she's supposed to do. And she's coming in with a lot of feelings, but also a lot of. I don't think she expects what she gets. I think she comes in thinking it's going to be a bit of a civil discussion and instead gets something quite different. I mean, Mashler says at one point, you were. You were brought in to make a show. And I don't even think she understands that she was supposed to. That she thinks she's being brought in for her intelligence and for her ability to talk to him. And then he says, no, you were brought in to make a show to make him feel fond, over and flattered.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to a Little bit of Jesse's first interaction with Roald Dahl. This is from Giant.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

And is this your first job?

[Aya Cash]

Dearest darling.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Is that such a terrible thing to say? You seem terribly young, terribly nervous. How do I. I thought there might be congratulations in order. I don't want to be rude.

[Aya Cash]

His manners are widely celebrated. Well, it is my third second at fsg. I came in as an associate. Now I'm a director. Before that I was with an agent.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Roger tells me she's a rising star.

[Aya Cash]

Oh, I don't know about that, but are you Jewish? Ro, I'm so sorry.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Tom and I were discussing your name. Couldn't quite work it out. Stone. Was that Stein?

[Aya Cash]

No, no. Well, I'm no Mrs. Stone. You really don't have to answer.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Hey, Tom is. You wouldn't mind my asking Tom, I

[Aya Cash]

just want to know Fit's personal role. People don't just ask you if you believe in God.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

I don't.

[Alison Stewart]

That's from the Broadway play Giant. My guests are Tony nominated playwright Mark Rosenblatt and Tony nominated actor Aya Cash. Mark, why, what do you think about Jesse just brings out this, this, this, this ah, this person in Doll, his ability to just like keep going at her.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Well, he's a very controlling person and he has a sort of animal, he's like a wounded animal. And he is very quick to at least think that he can work out who's against him, who's managing him. What just happened before that clip is that she has accidentally dropped in his lap the art, the. Her copy of the book review. And on that copy of the book review, scribbles are her scribbles. Her responses that seem to be negative seem to be questioning the validity of what he said. And so immediately he's putting stuff together to him. Is she Jewish? Where does she stand on the, on, on Israel, Palestine? Is the wool being pulled over his eyes? And as someone who has, who believes he has a sense of how they, they, those people that support the causes that he doesn't support might operate, he starts to kind of work her over. It's a, it's an animal instinct that starts to happen.

[Alison Stewart]

What does Jesse learn from Roald Dahl in those moments?

[Aya Cash]

You know, it's interesting, there's so many moments on stage in the moments where he's talking to Tom Mashler. I find that Jesse agrees with him over Tom most of the time, which is so interesting because you'd think that would not be the case. But there's so much of the time that she's Sort of chum in the water with these sharks. Like, I mean they're all, you know, there's seven plays happening on stage during any play, right. If you watch people who are not speaking, there's always something else going on. And there's so many times I look around and I see Elliot and Rachel plotting while like I'm just there going, how am I surviving in these shark infested waters? And listening to Rol talk about, you know, that you should speak up, you should say what you think. Like, don't be craven, say, say what you believe. Stand up. And I think in some ways Jesse agrees. She doesn't agree with what Rolle is saying to say, but she does agree that we should be speaking up and to say your position. So, yeah, I would say there's lots of moments where weirdly she agrees with Doll.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

They're weirdly like each other, which is why they, they kind of are drawn to each other. And also I think it's worth saying that she's a fan of his writing. That's the big tear for her, I think, is that she comes to this house in a way. Like I came to writing the play as a huge Roald Dahl fan. I loved his, I love his work. I still read it to my son and, and you're dealing with, she's dealing with two truths at once when she enters that house. The man of her that shaped her childhood, her own son's childhood and the politics that she's reading on that in that review.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. And I thought this as I was watching the play and my producer Jordan, I had the same thought, was like, why didn't Jesse leave sooner? Why doesn't she just walk out?

[Aya Cash]

You know, it's so funny. People talk a lot about the speech in Act 1 and I, I am like, it's so interesting. The more people don't ask why she comes back. I mean, it's a very interesting. That entrance is one of the more complicated entrances back into the play for when I come back for Act 2 because it feels like she has just done it. She's given it all away and there is no coming back. But the truth is she's again, she is a woman with a job and a child with special needs. And that is, there is no discounting how much she needs this job and needs to be. So when she does eventually say, I don't know if it's a spoiler, but when she says that maybe she doesn't want to work for the publishing company anymore because of him. That is a huge deal to get to that place. And so every time I come on stage and no matter what he's saying to me, that is always in the back of my mind is that I have a family to take care of and that this is. It's not an option to leave.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's listen to you at this point in the. In the play. This is from Giant.

[Aya Cash]

You saved the Jews of Europe only to discover the Jews weren't worth saving, and now you want their devil state brought to its knees?

[Mark Rosenblatt]

What do you want?

[Aya Cash]

I'm asking you to apologize. To who? To them?

[Mark Rosenblatt]

To you. To you, Stein.

[Aya Cash]

Just apologize. You understand the power of language more than anyone, how it can twist things out of shape and how it can make things whole again. And this. This kind of language, when the world comes for us again, when people like you won't protect us anymore, it sends me and my son somewhere Mr. Taff knows only too well. So, yes, yes, you do owe me an apology. Yes. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, you do.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, I love that John Liskow. What does he bring to the role that you didn't expect?

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Oh, nothing at all. He's. He's.

[Aya Cash]

He's.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Well, I mean, we've been working with. He's the only person I've ever worked with on it. So it's like his voice has been in the room since the beginning of the process, but he has. I mean, just as a performer. He is. He is. He's like a Rolls Royce, you know, and he just. Just nudges the pedal and it just start. The engine starts to roar. He's got incredible, Incredible levels of charm and incredible. And in a relationship with the audience that is sort of charming and beloved, but also has this instinctive ability to reach into the darker and very controlling and calculated side of many characters he's played, and especially this one. His ability to play truthfully in both of those zones and to find the compassion of the character, the heartfelt compassion of the character, as he does have, and the defensive, wounded cruelty of the character is. Is. Is not something. It's certainly not something I take for granted. I mean, he's. It's. It's a master class.

[Alison Stewart]

Giant is going to be coming to movie theaters, I believe, this fall. Aya, what do you. How do you think it'll appear on. On screen? How do you think viewers will experience it on screen versus on stage?

[Aya Cash]

You know, I don't know. And it's not a movie, so it's a. It's a screen version of the play, which takes a different eye. Right. You want to come to it with the understanding that you are not watching a movie. So it's not the extreme close ups. It's not necessarily, it's not shot that way. But you know, for me, when I used to watch a play that had been filmed, it was like a little portal into a world that either I couldn't afford or I couldn't get to, you know, and that feels really special to get sort of a hint hit from what we did in London. And that, that is very special to be able to have access to that if you couldn't have, you know, flown to the West End. And that's exciting because hopefully it brings people to live theater Giant is playing

[Alison Stewart]

at the Music Box Theater. I've been speaking with Mark Rosenblatt and Tony nominated actor, Tony nominated playwright Mark Rosenblatt and Tony nominated actor Aya Cash. Thank you for coming to the studio.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

Thank you for having us.

[Aya Cash]

Thank you so much.

[Mark Rosenblatt]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Mark Rosenblatt]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Aya Cash]

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[Mark Rosenblatt]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Aya Cash]

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