Glenn Ligon's 10 Pieces of Art to See in New York (100 Pieces of Art)

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Glenn Ligon's 10 Pieces of Art to See in New York”

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Episode: Glenn Ligon's 10 Pieces of Art to See in New York (100 Pieces of Art)
• Release Date: December 9, 2024
• Description: ALL OF IT is a WNYC show exploring culture and its consumers, engaging thinkers, makers, and creators about the “what” and “why” of their work within the vibrant cultural landscape of New York City.

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart invites renowned New York artist and curator Glenn Ligon to discuss his curated list of 10 must-see art pieces in New York City. As part of WNYC’s Centennial celebration, this segment highlights the city’s rich artistic tapestry through expert recommendations and listener interactions.

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Glenn Ligon’s Curatorial Criteria

[01:41] Glenn Ligon:
“I tried to think about things that were in public spaces that people didn't necessarily need to go pay somewhere to see and things that are kind of like, you know, I sort of see on my journeys around the city.”

Ligon emphasizes accessibility and public presence as key factors in his selections, aiming to spotlight art that seamlessly integrates into the daily lives of New Yorkers.

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Top 10 Art Pieces Discussed

1. David Hammons’ “Unnamed Performance” at Henry Ward Beecher Monument

[02:19] Glenn Ligon:
“I love the idea of monuments not being set in time… something about care, something about memory, something about representation.”

Ligon highlights David Hammons' interactive performance where Hammons places a scarf on a figure of an emancipated black woman amidst a blizzard, symbolizing ongoing dialogue with historical monuments.

2. Jack Whitten and Willem de Kooning at MoMA

[04:09] Alison Stewart:
“William de Kooning made this painting, Pirate, when he was starting to enter Alzheimer's.”

[05:00] Glenn Ligon:
“Pirate was always up at MoMA… I always loved that painting. I thought it was a mystical transmission of the painting's meaning to my brain.”

Ligon shares personal anecdotes about viewing de Kooning's "Pirate," reflecting on its emotional impact and the evolving recognition of artists like Jack Whitten.

3. Andy Warhol’s Shadows at the Dia Beacon

[08:49] Glenn Ligon:
“They're paintings of shadows… if somebody can make a whole exhibition out of paintings of nothing, then I could be an artist.”

Warhol’s minimalist shadow paintings resonate with Ligon, illustrating simplicity and conceptual depth in art.

4. The Metropolitan Museum of Art

[10:04] Glenn Ligon:
“The Met is such a comprehensive museum… every time you go, you can find something else you haven't seen before.”

Ligon reminisces about his formative experiences at the Met, appreciating its vast and diverse collections as a continual source of inspiration.

5. Public Art at Houston and Commonwealth Stations

[20:49] Glenn Ligon:
“There’s amazing public art in Harlem, Houston, Conwell… these are permanent and available to enjoy whenever people want.”

Highlighting the accessibility and permanence of public art installations, Ligon underscores their role in enhancing daily commutes and urban spaces.

6. Martin Wong’s Graffiti Collection at the Museum of the City of New York

[18:58] Glenn Ligon:
“Graffiti was like a blight on the city… now there's a museum show collecting this stuff.”

Ligon discusses the transformation of graffiti from perceived vandalism to celebrated art form, exemplified by Martin Wong’s comprehensive collection.

7. Studio Museum in Harlem’s “Ragging on Myself”

[22:45] Glenn Ligon:
“It’s based on a poem by Muhammad Ali… it mirrors the fate of individuals with the fate of the black community.”

This neon installation by Ligon, inspired by Muhammad Ali’s words, serves as both a personal and communal landmark, symbolizing unity and identity.

8. Broadway Shows and the Fantasia Bronze Hippo

[15:11] Andrea:
“Broadway shows are like framed art… the giant hippo that used to be in front of Lincoln Center is iconic.”

Listeners appreciate the live, performative art of Broadway and whimsical public sculptures like the Fantasia bronze hippo, highlighting the diversity of artistic expression in NYC.

9. Greenacre Foundation’s Waterfall and Cafe

[17:08] Elizabeth:
“It has an amazing waterfall and cafe… it was designed by Hideo Sasaki and is a very magical place.”

The Greenacre Foundation is celebrated for its serene public space that combines architectural beauty with natural elements, offering a peaceful retreat in the city.

10. Eleanor Roosevelt Statue at Riverside and 72nd Street

[22:07] Arlen:
“She’s leaning back, relaxed… it’s very human.”

This statue stands out for its unconventional, approachable depiction of a historical figure, making art relatable and reflective of everyday humanity.

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Listener Contributions and Insights

Throughout the episode, listeners contribute their favorite art pieces, enriching the conversation with diverse perspectives:

• Lawrence from Brooklyn Heights:
  “Beaker with Apes” at the Cloisters – a 15th-century ornamental drinking cup with detailed monkey illustrations.

• Hank from Fort Lee:
  Bust of Sylvette at University Village – a hidden Picasso loved by locals.

• Lincoln from the Catskills:
  Giant mural at 30 Rockefeller Center – a homage to America’s optimism in the 1930s.

• Alex from Park Slope:
  Small piece of the Berlin Wall in Manhattan – a surprising historical artifact.

• Andrea from Hell's Kitchen:
  Broadway’s live performances and the Fantasia bronze hippo.

• Elizabeth:
  Greenacre Foundation's architectural beauty.

• Arlen from the Upper West Side:
  Eleanor Roosevelt’s approachable statue.

These contributions underscore the podcast’s commitment to showcasing a wide array of cultural landmarks, from classical to contemporary and public to institutional art.

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Discussion on Public Art and Graffiti

[19:33] Glenn Ligon:
“The line between what is art and what is not art… is very porous now.”

Ligon delves into the evolution of public art, particularly graffiti, discussing its acceptance from urban blight to museum exhibitions. He highlights how public art enhances city life by being accessible and integral to the community’s visual landscape.

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Art in the Airport and Future Installations

[15:54] Alison Stewart:
“Art in the Airport is on your list. Tell us a little bit more about art in the airport.”

[16:00] Glenn Ligon:
“There’s a percentage of construction budgets for airports now geared towards art… Receipt Johnson, Alicia Nussenbaum, Virginia Overton, Fred Wilson have done amazing pieces.”

Ligon praises the integration of art in public transportation hubs like LaGuardia, enhancing the travel experience and showcasing diverse artistic talents. He shares his own commission attempt, reflecting on the balance between artistic expression and contextual appropriateness.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Ligon expressing enthusiasm for his curated list and the dynamic art scene in New York City. Alison Stewart thanks him for his insights, emphasizing the value of public and accessible art in enriching the urban experience.

[24:11] Glenn Ligon:
“So much fun curating this list…”

Listeners are encouraged to explore these artworks, engage with their stories, and appreciate the diverse cultural fabric that makes New York City a global art hub.

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Notable Quotes:

• Glenn Ligon ([02:19]):
  “Monuments not being set in time… something about care, something about memory, something about representation.”

• Lawrence from Brooklyn Heights ([07:38]):
  “Beaker with Apes… has just blown away. It’s my favorite work of art available to the public in New York City.”

• Glenn Ligon ([19:33]):
  “The line between what is art and what is not art… is very porous now.”

• Andrea from Hell's Kitchen ([15:11]):
  “Broadway shows are like framed art… the giant hippo that used to be in front of Lincoln Center is iconic.”

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This episode of All Of It offers a comprehensive and heartfelt exploration of New York City’s art scene through Glenn Ligon’s expert lens, enriched by listener interactions and personal anecdotes. It serves as an inspiring guide for both locals and visitors to engage with the city’s multifaceted cultural offerings.

Transcript

[Glenn Ligon]

Listener supported WNYC studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We are continuing WNYC Centennial with 100 pieces of art to see in New York City. A completely unscientific but heartfelt recognition that we live in a city with some of the finest art around. We've been asking experts in the field for the recommendations. We've spoken with several connoisseurs from Art news editor Sarah Douglas to Thelma golden from the Studio Museum of Harlem. Today we have New York's own artist and curator, Glenn Ligon. He has exhibited work widely and his work can be seen at the Tate Modern Museum of Modern Art, the Whitney National Gallery of Art in Washington D.C. the Art Institute in Chicago and so many more. You can see his work now in New York City at 10th Avenue and 18th Street. A commission titled Untitled America. Glenn, welcome back.

[Glenn Ligon]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

So listeners, we want to know what is your favorite piece of art to see in New York City? Maybe it's a piece of public art or something in one of the museums. Big, small. We want to know what it is. 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. Our social media is available as well at all of it. Wnyc, what is your favorite piece of art to see? All right, all we told you, Glenn, is to come up with 10 choices that had meaning to you or had a story that interested you. What did the work have to make this list to make it to your list?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, I tried to think about things that were in public spaces that people didn't necessarily need to go to pay somewhere to see and things that are kind of like, you know, I sort of see on my journeys around the city. So that's kind of my criteria for a lot of the choices I made.

[Unknown]

Awesome.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's start with David Hammond's documented unnamed.

[Unknown]

Performance with the Henry Ward Beecher Monument.

[Alison Stewart]

Columbus park and Brooklyn.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Alison Stewart]

David Hammond, excuse me, is a well known artist, part of JAM just above Midtown, the black Arts movement. I believe he's still alive at 81. Yes. I love this. Could you describe this piece of work?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, what it is, is a performance. So there's an existing sculpture in this public park in Brooklyn and it is of Henry Ward Beecher who was an abolitionist. And there at the base of this sculpture, a figure of an emancipated black woman barefoot, fairly close. So there's a video of David Hammond during a blizzard one day putting a scarf around this figure. I love that. And I love the idea, and you can see their images online. There was an article in the New York Times about it. But I love the idea of monuments not being set in time. You know, that we keep responding to them, have feelings about them, but also this beautiful gesture of just putting a scarf about black women in a snowstorm. It's kind of absurd, but it's also very beautiful. Something about care, something about memory, something about representation.

[Unknown]

What I think is sort of interesting is it's not a sanctioned piece of art.

[Glenn Ligon]

Right, exactly right.

[Unknown]

It's just art that you can take in.

[Glenn Ligon]

Right. He just did that and then disappeared. But that's a lot of David. You know, David, I remember I lived in downtown Brooklyn in the late 80s, and there would be this guy hammering bottle caps onto telephone poles in Cadman Plaza, right near this sculpture. But this was 20 years before. And I just kept walking by, and I was like, what the hell is this? And then those telephone poles became a piece called Higher Gold. And it was David Hammons who was out there every day hammering thousands and thousands of bottle caps onto these telephone poles in these beautiful patterns. And that became an artwork. So it just expanded my idea of what an art, where they do their work. What is an artwork? He's amazing.

[Unknown]

You have on here Jack Witten Atopoulos. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Also, William de Kooning, Pirate. Both are at MoMA. William de Kooning made this painting, Pirate, I think, when he was starting to enter Alzheimer's.

[Glenn Ligon]

I think maybe before that. But the line is, you know, it's a porous line, I guess.

[Unknown]

Yes. But obviously the will to paint is still there.

[Glenn Ligon]

Yes, yes.

[Unknown]

So what does it say to you as an artist?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, you know, Pirate has a funny story for me, because I used to go to moma all the time when I was in college just to go see what's up. And Pirate, literally what's up on the walls. And Pirate would be up on the walls because Pirate was considered one of de Kooning's masterpieces. And the masterpieces are always up. Well, Etopolis is up by Jack Witten. So that's another discussion.

[Unknown]

Like other masterpieces.

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, there's a huge show coming of Jack Whitten's work in the fall. Sorry, spring next year. And I wrote a little essay for the catalogs and very love Whitten's work. But in order for something to be recognized as a masterpiece, it kind of has to be up, you know.

[Unknown]

Oh, interesting.

[Glenn Ligon]

Pirate was always up, but Jack Whitten wasn't always up and Jack Whitten's a later acquisition, you know. But there was a moment when I went to moma and I realized, oh, this Jack Whitten painting's been up for six months. And then it came down. And then two other artists I love, Julie Murat and Terry Adkins, their work went up in Whitten's place. And I thought, well, somebody got the memo over there. But to finish my story about de Kooning, I used to go visit it, and I would have this weird sort of sensation in front of it. The painting would get sharp in my eyes and brighten, and I'd brighten up. And I thought it was a mystical transmission of the painting's meaning to my brain, you know. So I always loved that painting. And it happened in that painting particularly, it happened sometimes with other work. And then, you know, I was in college and I was once driving up to school with my brother, and he asked me to look at the street signs. And I was like, I can't read them. I was like, you need glasses. And sure enough, I needed glasses. And the next time I went to look at Pirate, that thing didn't happen because it was simply my eyes taking a moment to focus on what's in front of me, which I had mistaken as, like, art's mystery.

[Unknown]

Needed some good glasses.

[Glenn Ligon]

Still love the painting.

[Unknown]

Let's take a couple calls. Lawrence is calling in from Brooklyn Heights. Hi, Lawrence.

[Lawrence]

Hey. Hi. Yeah, yeah. You had asked on the air, what's your favorite piece of art? I told your screener I didn't know the name, but I've googled it since then. It's just called Beaker with Apes. It's up at the Cloisters, and it's a 15th century drinking cup, essentially, but ornamental. And it's enameled with incredible detailed illustrations inside and out of. Of a band of monkeys robbing a traveling peddler in the woods. And I guess it's all about idleness because he was taking a nap and they steal all his stuff. And the detail of the illustration is amazing. And the monkeys are really weird and evil. And I was just struck because Brian Lehrer, before he was talking about the wizard of Ott, and I was thinking of the flying monkeys, and there's the whole thing there. But anyway, I go a couple of times a year to it, just up to the Cloisters to see this thing in particular, because it has for decades, it has just blown away. It's my favorite work of art available to the public in New York City.

[Unknown]

Lawrence, thank you let's talk to Hank from Fort Lee. Hi, Hank.

[Hank]

Hey, Allison. Great segment. So bust of Silvette at University, I guess it's called University Village, 100 Bleecker Street. At, you know, below NYU, there is an amazing Picasso and a lot of people don't know it's there. And just a quick anecdote. My girlfriend was born and raised in the Village and lived on Fifth Avenue by Washington Square park for many years. And she had never, ever seen it until I took her by it one day and she was just amazed that it was there and she didn't know it existed.

[Unknown]

Hank, thanks for the message. Our guest is Glenn Ligon. We are talking about 10 pieces of art that you should see in New York City. It's part of our 100 series. We wonder what your favorite piece of art is to see in New York City. Maybe a piece of public art, something in one of the museums, big or small. 2124-3396-9221-2433, WNYC. Back to your list, Warhol shadows at DIA. So how is this different than the average Warhol painting?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, it was made as a series, so they're maybe, I'm not sure the exact number. Like 100 paintings in all different colors hung edge to edge all around the room. And it's actually a DIA beacon, so you have to get on a train to see it, but it's a nice ride up there. And I first saw this work in SoHo in late 70s, maybe 78 or 79. And in high school, first time I had brown rice going down soho to the restaurant called Eat that was run by artists and saw these Warhol paintings. And I didn't know what they were about, but they made a deep impression on me. And I've talked to a number of artists who also saw these Warhol paintings.

[Unknown]

Interesting.

[Glenn Ligon]

And were, you know, they're paintings of nothing. They're paintings of shadows. But, you know, in some ways I thought, well, if somebody can make a whole exhibition out of paintings of nothing, then I could be an artist.

[Alison Stewart]

I guess my next thing on your the next thing on your list cracks me up because it says the Museum of Modern Art, the Metropolitan Museum of of Art, the whole, the whole building, everything. Tell me about your memories you have with Metropolitan Museum of Art.

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, my mom, God rest her soul, when I said that I was interested in art, she let me do things that were around art. So I did drawing classes at the Metropolitan when I was in high school and I did pottery classes in Greenwich Village. When I told her I wanted to be an artist, she almost had a heart attack because she just thought, well, I was sending you for entertainment. I don't want you to be an artist. How are you going to make any money? Every artist I've ever heard of is dead. Like Picasso. I was like, yes, Picasso is dead, but there are certain ones. But I put the Met on there because it's such a comprehensive museum. So every time you go, you can find something else you haven't seen before. So I would just wander around and, like, look at Islamic calligraphy and look at French still life paintings. I had a little notebook with me. It was drawings, full of drawings of, like, French Impressionist paintings, you know, hadn't ever been anywhere, never been on a plane. But my notebook's full of, like, French landscapes that eventually I hoped to see. So it's been a resource. But many, many museums have acted, you know, have been like that for me.

[Unknown]

Well, I'm curious about your feelings about the Met, sort of trying to catch up with diversity and noting that some of the past shows may have been incomplete, shall we say?

[Glenn Ligon]

Shall we say, yes.

[Unknown]

What are your feelings about the Met trying to catch up?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, I think a lot of museums have, you know, they got work to do. And I've been heartened by the emphasis and programming of women and people of color. There's a fantastic show coming up in the spring of Jenny C. Jones, an artist I love the work of. She's doing a rooftop commission. Lorna Simpson, the photographer, is also having a show at the Met. There's an amazing show up now called Flight to Egypt. It was about artists who are interested in Egypt as a source material. So, you know, they're trying. They're trying. You know, I'm trying to get right with God, you know.

[Alison Stewart]

This says, I enjoy the lions at the library for their beauty and what the beauty they represent. They're iconic, and you can see them in so many places. One of my favorites is Ghostbusters. This says, medieval armor at the Met has been my favorite since childhood, especially the horse armor. Thanks for that message. Someone wrote, I love the mosaics throughout the East Village. That's another fun one. Let's talk to Arthur, who's calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Arthur. Arthur, you there? Hello? We'll go back and see if Arthur's there next time. Let's try Lincoln, who's calling in from the Catskills. Hi, Lincoln.

[Lincoln]

Yes, hello. Can you hear me?

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, we hear you. Great.

[Lincoln]

Oh, good. I'm thinking about the one piece of art, public art, that. That impresses me every time I see it is the giant mural at 30 Rockefeller center, which was painted by, I think, Rivera, a great muralist, and it was painted in the 30s or 40s, and it's an homage to all the great new things happening in America at that time and all the optimism, the labors represented in industry and culture, the arts, and so on. The giant mural in the lobby, I hope it's still there. Of 30 Rockefeller Center.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much for calling in.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Andrea on line three.

[Unknown]

She's calling in from Hell's Kitchen.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea]

Hello, Allison. Thank you for having me on. I wanted to say, especially in relation to your previous segment, that one of the greatest artists stuffed things in New York are the Broadway shows or any theater that you can go to, because basically it's a proscenium march, which is a frame, and you're looking inside the frame, except that everything that's happening in it is live and in real time. So just if you take death becomes her. It's the costumes, it's the sets, it's. It's the choreography. It's all. It's the most bang for your buck. I hate to say it in. In the whole city because you're seeing so many artisans and again, technicians, people working in real time while you're watching the show. So literally, from show to the Hills of California, which you've also done segments on, you're looking inside this picture that's inside a frame that's made for the audience to absorb. So you can just. You can travel around the world watching shows. I mean, meaning like just in New York. And my other one that I have to mention is the giant hippo that used to be in front of Lincoln center in the tutu. That's the Fantasia bronze hippo. And they've moved her. So if Mr. Ligon knows where it is, shout it out.

[Glenn Ligon]

I've never heard of this.

[Unknown]

Oh, it's so good. It's so good. But it's sort of. This edges into our next thing, the Edges of Ailey, right? At the Whitney Museum current show, we've done a little bit about it. What does the show tell us about the connection between art and dance?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, I think it is trying to present, you know, a portrait of Alvin Ailey as a choreographer, a dancer, but also present a portrait of his deep interest in visual arts and culture, his connections to visual artists, artists who may not have had a direct connection to Ailey, but are thinking about dance and their work the performative aspects of art, you know. So I think it's an amazing, amazing show. It's worth many visits.

[Alison Stewart]

I love this one, Art in the Airport. That's on your list. And a list of great artists. Tell us a little bit more about art in the airport.

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, yeah, I think it's because there's a percentage of construction budgets for airports now is geared towards art. So they've done fantastic interventions in the airport at LaGuardia. I'm trying to remember what terminal that's in terminal C at LaGuardia. Right. So there's Receipt Johnson, Alicia Nussenbaum, Virginia Overton, Fred Wilson, and others who have done these amazing pieces all over the space. And I mean, actually, I was asked to do a commission for that, but I proposed a neon that would be the first lines of A Tale of Two Cities. Best of times, worst of times. And they were, like, not appropriate for an airport. Worst of times, like, oh, they lost our luggage. Worst of times.

[Alison Stewart]

There are a lot of worst of times that happened with the plane. I understand the point. Let's talk to Elizabeth. On line for. Hi, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

Hello. Good afternoon or good midday.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you like?

[Elizabeth]

So I was going. I'm an art historian, so I wasn't calling to talk about the museums I've worked at or the things I've created. I was calling to talk about somewhere I used to live before I left for India and when I came back. On East 51st Street. It's the Greenacre Foundation. It's open to the public almost every day. It has amazing waterfall and cafe. It was designed by the Japanese architect sculptor Hideo Sasaki, opened in 1971. I was there as a child for the opening. Abby Aldridge Rockefeller, when she was married to Jacques Marzouin, endowed it. And the foundation is a nonprofit conservancy, and they have a cafe, and it's a very magical place.

[Unknown]

Elizabeth, thank you so much. Let's talk to Alex in Park Slope. Alex, how are you?

[Hank]

I'm doing great. I wanted to say there's. There's a small piece of the Berlin Wall in Manhattan. I can't remember where it is, but every time I come upon it, it's a surprise. And it's amazing.

[Unknown]

It's amazing. It was near where my guitar teacher was. It's like all the way. It's all the way south by Westfeld Mall. It's down that area, right? Oh, Alex is. No, check it out down there. I'm pretty sure it's down in that part. My guest is Glenn Ligon. He is our curator for this segment, we're talking about everybody's favorite pieces of art in New York City. Let us know. 2124-339692-22433. WNYC. We ask Glenn for a list of 10. Okay. Someone texted in about one of the things on your list. It says, martin Wong's graffiti collection at the Museum of the City of New York. The kings and queens and pioneers of early New York subways and street arts are represented. That is number seven on your list.

[Glenn Ligon]

Yes. And Martin Wong was amazing painter, lived on the Lower east side and did lot of work documenting that community. Poets, writers he knew, pictures of firemen, pictures of street grates and gates on storefronts. Amazing, amazing painter, but a huge collector of graffiti and donated that collection. I think after his death, that collection was donated to Museum of City New York. So that's up right now to be seen.

[Unknown]

What makes graffiti art?

[Glenn Ligon]

Oh, interesting question. I grew up in the South Bronx, and so in the 60s and 70s, I was surrounded by graffiti on the subways. I didn't know it was art, but I'm a painter who uses a lot of words, a lot of text in my art. And I think that the origin of that was the words, the text that were on the subway cars I was riding every day. So the line between what is art and what is not art, I think is very porous now. And it was maybe in the 70s, much more. You know, graffiti was like a blight on the city. And now there's a museum show collecting this stuff. There's also one at the Bronx Museum, Futura 2000. You know, another graffiti artist whose work I saw on trains, but in a museum now. So I think the line between, like, what was sort of considered vandalism, what considered art has dissolved.

[Unknown]

We're getting our texts in from our listeners. The bronze ballerina hippo is now across the street from Grand Central Station. So there you go. We got someone else who agreed. The Grand Central, the restoration created Serenity, which is a lovely piece. You mentioned art in public places. What do you like about public art? What should people go see?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, because it's just around and free, you know, you can just encounter it. Like, there's amazing public art in Harlem, Houston, Conwell, which is in the subway station, 125th Street. Marin Hassinger, also at subway station, 110th street station on the 2 3. Terry Atkins, Harlem Encores, which is on the Metro North Station on 125th Street. These are major pieces by major artists. And I love that they're there permanently and available to enjoy whenever people want.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. You mentioned Houston Commonwealth's open Secret. That's number nine. What's unusual? What's it like? What's unusual about it?

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, I think what's nice about it is just kind of feeling like most art in subways is done like mosaics. And his feels more like you're seeing little sculptures embedded into the subway station itself. And I like that. Artists being able to take their practice, that's a more sculptural practice, be true to that, not have to change a medium because it's in a particular place.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Arlen, who is calling in from the Upper west side. Hi, Arlen.

[Arlen]

Hi. Hi. So what I love is at the Eleanor Roosevelt statue at Riverside and 72nd Street. It's so uniconic. She's leaning back, relaxed. Her arms are folded and wearing casual clothing. And it's just very. It's very human. It's not the way we usually see people. Great people depicted in statues. I wonder at it every time I see it.

[Alison Stewart]

Love it.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much for calling. All right, number 10.

[Alison Stewart]

I know this person.

[Unknown]

Glenn Ligon.

[Alison Stewart]

Give us a poem.

[Glenn Ligon]

2007, ragging on myself.

[Alison Stewart]

I love that you put this on the list. Tell us more.

[Glenn Ligon]

Well, actually, this piece isn't on view yet, but it will be on view again when the Studio Museum in Haarlem opens in the fall of 25. It's a neon that was a commission. I was asked to do a piece for public atrium attached to the museum. So a piece that would be addressing the street, 125th Street. Very busy street, but viewable day and night. Even if you're not in the museum, you could still see it. And the piece has the words me and we in it, sort of mirroring each other. And it's based on a poem by Muhammad Ali. He was doing a commencement speech at Harvard, and after his speech, someone yelled out from the audience, give us a poem. And he said, me, oui. And I love that Ali's sort of sense of his fate as an individual was tied to the fate of black people in general as a community. And so that's what the piece is. And it's one of these pieces that's been around long enough that people tell me their kids have grown up with it. It's become a kind of little landmark. So the Studio Museum's building is opening in fall of 25, and that piece will be in the lobby when it opens. So can't wait for that.

[Unknown]

Glenn Ligon, thank you so much for making a list for us. We really appreciate it.

[Glenn Ligon]

Oh, thank you so much. So much fun.

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