Historical Fiction About the First Woman to Helm 'The Crisis,' A Black Literary Powerhouse

Summary

All Of It - Episode Summary: "Historical Fiction About the First Woman to Helm 'The Crisis,' A Black Literary Powerhouse"

Release Date: February 3, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Victoria Christopher Murray
Book Discussed: "Harlem Rhapsody" by Victoria Christopher Murray

---

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, WNYC delves into an illuminating discussion celebrating Black History with a special focus on Harlem. The spotlight is on Victoria Christopher Murray, a New York Times bestselling author, who introduces her latest historical novel, "Harlem Rhapsody." The book centers around Jessie Redmond Fawcett, a pioneering Black woman who played a crucial role in the Harlem Renaissance.

Exploring Jessie Redmond Fawcett

Alison Stewart opens the conversation by presenting the central figure of Murray's novel, Jessie Redmond Fawcett. Jessie, as portrayed in "Harlem Rhapsody," moves to Harlem in 1919 to assume her dream role as the literary editor for the NAACP's official magazine, The Crisis. Notably, she is the first Black woman to hold this prestigious position.

Victoria Christopher Murray shares her inspiration for the character:

[01:58] Murray: "I wanted to write a historical fiction... I listened to someone who had done a show called Harlem on My Mind and they mentioned Jessie Redmond Fawcett. And then when Langston Hughes said that she was the midwife of the Harlem Renaissance, I decided to go down that rabbit hole."

Jessie's Role in the Harlem Renaissance

Jessie's tenure at The Crisis was marked by her mentorship of emerging Black writers such as Countee Cullen, Nella Larson, and Langston Hughes. Murray emphasizes Jessie's dual role as both a creative force and a nurturer:

[14:53] Murray: "Each of these young men and women came to her very young. They hadn't been published... she was able to nurture them, creatively editing them. She also helped them with their personal situations."

Jessie's contributions extended beyond mentorship. She was instrumental in creating the beloved children's magazine, Brownies Book, fulfilling W.E.B. du Bois's vision to provide positive representations for Black children.

The Personal Life of Jessie Redmond Fawcett

A significant aspect of Jessie's character is her secret affair with the influential intellectual, W.E.B. du Bois. This clandestine relationship poses a threat to her reputation in a society that expects Black women to conform to traditional roles.

Murray reveals the complexity of their relationship:

[03:25] Murray: "They had, at that point, had been involved for five years. And I think he said this would be a little bit of a way to keep her close."

Impact of the Step-Mother Character

Jessie's stepmother, Bella, adds another layer of complexity to her life. A Jewish woman and an integrationist, Bella pushes Jessie to excel academically and professionally. Murray discusses how Bella's expectations shape Jessie's character:

[05:28] Murray: "Her stepmother made Jessie very aware of who she was, but pushed her to the greatest limits. It was her stepmother who encouraged her to overachieve."

Setting the Scene: Harlem in the 1920s

The novel meticulously captures the zeitgeist of Harlem during the early 20th century—a time when Black pride surged amidst pervasive racism and segregation. Murray explains how this duality informs the characters' worldviews:

[06:27] Murray: "Harlem was this little corner of America where black pride was growing while people were being lynched in certain parts of the country... Pride, black pride was rising in Harlem in terms of everything."

The Crisis Magazine: A Pillar of Black America

The Crisis magazine was the most important periodical for Black Americans at the time, providing news and fostering a sense of community and pride. Murray elaborates on its significance:

[09:07] Murray: "It was the most important periodical in the country. If your name was in The Crisis, you were somebody."

W.E.B. du Bois envisioned The Crisis as a tool for an informed and empowered Black populace. Jessie's appointment as the literary editor was not just a professional milestone but also a strategic move in their personal relationship.

Challenges Faced by Jessie Redmond Fawcett

Murray sheds light on the unique challenges Jessie faced as a Black woman in a predominantly male and white-dominated field:

[17:04] Murray: "She had to prove herself in Black America because she was a woman. There were no women working in publishing at that time, not even at a Black magazine."

Jessie's interactions often required her to maintain composure in the face of sexism and racism, exemplified in a scene where a vendor dismissively refers to her as "doll."

Excerpt from "Harlem Rhapsody"

Victoria Christopher Murray shares a poignant excerpt from her novel, illustrating Jessie's early interactions with young Countee Cullen and the burgeoning literary community:

[12:06] Murray:
"The receiving line is long as we wait to pay our respects to the Reverend and his wife. When it is finally our turn, Reverend Cullen reaches for my mother's hands. It's nice to meet you, Reverend, my mother says. I'm Mrs. Bella Fawcett and this is my daughter, Ms. Jessie Fawcett. [...] I'm Countee Cullen. It is my absolute pleasure to meet you."

This passage highlights Jessie's role in fostering connections among young Black intellectuals and creatives.

Victoria Christopher Murray's Writing Journey

Beyond discussing her novel, Murray reflects on her personal journey as an author. With a career spanning 28 years, she shares insights into her evolution and the perseverance required to succeed in the literary world.

[18:33] Murray: "I wanted to be a writer my whole life. It was never going to be a transition for me. It was going to be when I could find my place in this industry."

Murray also offers valuable advice to aspiring writers:

[19:58] Murray: "Two things. Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you're not writing. And if you keep treating it like a hobby, it's going to stay a hobby. [...] The best writers are readers."

Community Engagement and Upcoming Events

Alison and Victoria touch upon the community's reception of "Harlem Rhapsody," noting high demand and sold-out events at the Schomburg Center. This underscores the enduring interest in Harlem's cultural legacy and Murray's contribution to its literary history.

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It offers a deep dive into the life of Jessie Redmond Fawcett, her pivotal role in the Harlem Renaissance, and the intricate interplay of personal and professional challenges she navigated. Through Victoria Christopher Murray's insightful narration, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of a woman who not only shaped a literary movement but also left an indelible mark on Black American culture.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Victoria Christopher Murray [01:58]: "I wanted to write a historical fiction... I decided to write about somebody that would interest me."

• Victoria Christopher Murray [14:53]: "She was able to nurture them, creatively editing them. She also helped them with their personal situations."

• Victoria Christopher Murray [06:27]: "Harlem was this little corner of America where black pride was growing while people were being lynched in certain parts of the country."

• Victoria Christopher Murray [19:58]: "Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you're not writing. [...] The best writers are readers."

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and narratives shared between Alison Stewart and Victoria Christopher Murray. It provides a vivid portrayal of Jessie Redmond Fawcett's legacy and Murray's literary accomplishments, serving as an engaging overview for both listeners and those new to the content.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. This month we're celebrating black history and we are focusing on Harlem. First Up, a new historical novel about a woman who nurtured the literary Harlem Renaissance. Her name is Jessie Redmond Fawcett. In 1919, she packs up her bags and moves to Harlem. She arrives for her dream job, the literary editor for the NAACP's official magazine, the Crisis. She's the first black woman to serve in this position. That's all true, by the way. Through her role as editor, she discovered and mentored young writers such as Countee Cullen, Nella Larson and Langston Hughes. She also helped create the beloved children's magazine, the Brownies book. However, Jessie is harboring a huge secret. She is having an affair with W.E.B. du Bois. The secret threatens her reputation as a respectable woman who was supposed to settle down, find a husband and have kids. But is that actually what Jesse wants? The book is titled Harlem Rhapsody. It publishes tomorrow, February 4th. Victoria Christopher Murray is a New York Times bestselling author. You may know her work, including the Personal Librarian and the First Ladies. She will be participating at an event tonight at the Schomburg at 6.30pm and now she in studio. Victoria, welcome.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm so excited. What first sparked your interest in Jesse Redmond Fawcett?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Well, I wanted to write a historical fiction. This is my first solo, as you mentioned. So I knew I was going to spend about two years with this character that I was going to develop. And I decided to write about somebody that would interest me. I'm a writer and so let me look into the time period I was looking for. The time period first Harlem Renaissance, the 1920s, New York. I'm from New York. I don't live here anymore. And I began looking up women in the Renaissance and I couldn't find any except for the, the writers that, you know, Zora Neale Hurston and things like that. And then I listened to someone who had done a show called Harlem on My Mind and they mentioned Jessie Redmond Fawcett. And then when Langston Yu said that she was the midwife of the Harlem Renaissance, I decided to go down that rabbit hole.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, where'd you go first?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I first went to articles on J store, the scholarly articles and everything. Found out so much information about her. Most of the time it was related to W.E.B. du Bois. It was. There were no articles about just her at first. When I first, it was always, she was attached to this man. Didn't know anything about that part. And then as I kept digging, people kept saying, I think she may have had an affair. I think she may have had an affair. And then when I went to W Boy's biography, that's where the biographer David Lewis said, oh, not only did they have an affair, they were star crossed lovers and they had a parallel marriage.

[Alison Stewart]

Hmm, that's so interesting. So you put dots, dots, dots, and then the big thing revealed itself.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Exactly, exactly.

[Alison Stewart]

The book opens with Jesse coming to Harlem. She's got her stepmother Bella from Philadelphia, who's coming to live with her in the book. Where is she in her career?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes. So she is a teacher at that point. She's a teacher because she's a black woman and that was the only kind of job she had. But she had a longing for writing and languages. That's what she majored in in Cornell at Cornell University. And think about this. In 1914, she traveled across the Atlantic and studied at La Sabon to studied French. So she always had a love for something beyond teaching. And when WEB offered her this position to be the literary editor and she was the first one and the last one, there was never one before her, never one after her. So she's starting a brand new career.

[Alison Stewart]

Her stepmother is Jewish.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How does this impact their relationship?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Well, you know what? I think her stepmother was more aware of race and racism than Jesse was at times. Her stepmother was what she called an integrationist. I had never heard that term, but it kind of evolved from abolitionist to integrationist. And her stepmother, who had been married before, had married a black man twice. She believed in this complete integration of the races. And she was going to do it herself, she was going to prove it, she wasn't. And so I think the way it impacted their relationship is that her stepmother made Jessie very aware of who she was, but pushed her to the greatest limits. It was her stepmother who encouraged her. And she graduated valedictorian from the Pennsylvania School, Philadelphia High School for Girls, went to Cornell University, was always a high achiever because her stepmother, who was the only mother she ever knew, her mother passed away when she was a toddler, really influenced her to overachieve.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, I gotta do this. And where did she teach school?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Oh, she taught in Washington, D.C. first at Dunbar. Oh, really?

[Alison Stewart]

Dunbar? Do people wanna read about it? I wrote a book about it. It's called First Class, in case you're interested.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I love that. I'm sorry. I love that. And that at Dunbar is where she met all of these people, like Gene Toomer, who would eventually become. His name was Eugene Pinchback at the time. And that's where she was teaching the person who would become the first president of Delta Sigma Theta. So she. She made an impact while she was there at Dunbar.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Victoria Christopher Murray. We're talking about Harlem Rhapsody. It comes out tomorrow. This was a different time in Harlem.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How does time and place inform the characters and how they view the world?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

It's really interesting. I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is the early 20th century. So we're talking 50 years after emancipation. Just 50 years. And this is the first group of educated blacks to emerge in this country ever. And so they're living this middle class, upper middle class life as much as they can, because at the same time, they can't go into certain restaurants. At the same time they're told you're less than. At the same time, they're having trouble getting their children educated. And so it's an interesting dichotomy that's happening there in their life. They have all of these achievements, but they're still second class citizens in this country. So that's what the time was. The place was that Harlem was this little corner of America where black pride was growing while people were being lynched in certain parts of the country. And Jim Crow was a big thing. Pride, black pride was rising in Harlem in terms of everything. People being proud of being black that had never been heard of. How can you be proud of being descendants of slaves? And it showed up in everything from fashion to music to theater and literature.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you approach writing about real people? Langston Hughes, Nella Larson. And also tackling the fictional part of this novel.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes. Because historical fiction kind of. They don't seem to go together. Right. Every scene that I write in any of the historical books are anchored in history. And what I mean by that, I know she arrived in New York. I know when she arrived in New York. And that meant that she would have to show up one day at the crisis office. And I know where that is. And then the people she'd have to meet. All of that is anchored in history. But I have no idea what they spoke about. I have no idea what they wore or what they ate. But I can extrapolate a lot of that information just based on what I know about them. That's why I study the characters first before I even write a word. I have read every biography, everything that I can to get their voices to know them, so that when I'm putting their words on the page, it's gonna be pretty close to what I honestly believe are their words.

[Alison Stewart]

A majority of the book revolves around Jesse's work at the Crisis, to give people a sense of it. What did the Crisis? What was its stature?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

When it was at its height?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes, that was the most important periodical in the country. And I always say for black people, but it was a publication of the naacp. And what most people are not aware of is that most of the naacp. The NAACP was founded mostly by white people who wanted to stop lynching. And so it was a periodical that gave News of Black America, and it gave News of Black America to black and white people. The most important periodical that was in the country. And if your name was in the Crisis, you were somebody.

[Alison Stewart]

What did W.E.B. du Bois? What were his goals for the Crisis? And then why. And why did he pick her?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Okay, so his goal for the Crisis was. The name of the Crisis came from a poem actually saying that at this point in time, black people were in crisis and we needed to do something. And so he felt that an informed populace would be the best populace. And he knew that he was going to give the information in a truthful, straightforward manner that was his to be the news and to tell the truth. That's what he wanted to do. The reason, though, that he brought Jesse to New York to be the literary editor, because, as I said, they had never had a literary editor before. The reason he brought her there had nothing to do with the Crisis. They were having an affair. They had, at that point, had been involved for five years. And I think he said this would be a little bit of a way to keep her close. He knew of her interest in writing. She had been writing for the Crisis. He knew of her love of languages. And he's like, this is a good time. Maybe we could put some literature in here, slap some things together. But she'll be close to me. And so what he meant to just kind of slap together, she turned into a literary movement.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting, though, her stepmother from the jump is like, no, no, no, no. Mr. Dubois, Dr. Du Bois. And she calls him. Oh, it's okay. Will's okay. What does Bella sense?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, well, he sensed. Why is this older man after my younger daughter. And what do you want with her? And aren't you married? And how far away do you live from here? So it won't take you a long time to get home. I think it's a mother's just sense that she knew that something wasn't right because, as I said, they had had an affair for five years at this point. And there have been little rumors and everything. And Bella, her mother and Jesse hadn't talked about it. I don't. I can't imagine that they had. But it does come to a head in this book.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the book is Harlem Rhapsody. It's by Victoria Christopher Murray. You're gonna read a little. A little bit for us. Yes, set this up for us.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Okay. So I'm going to read when she first meets Countee Cullen and think about this. This is when he's 16 years old. I mean, it's so young. She meets all of them so young. So this is Jesse and her mother at church at the end of the service, because Countee's father was a very famous Reverend Cullen at that time. So I'll begin here. The receiving line is long as we wait to pay our respects to the Reverend and his wife. When it is finally our turn, Reverend Cullen reaches for my mother's hands. It's nice to meet you, Reverend, my mother says. I'm Mrs. Bella Fawcett and this is my daughter, Ms. Jessie Fawcett. He tilts his head and as he takes my hand into his. You're Ms. Jessie Fawcett? Yes, My mother and I say together, both surprise. Before I can ask the question, he answers. Dr. Du Bois told me you'd be joining a crisis. I'm very excited because my son is a great writer. He raises his hand and calls out, countee. And beckons to someone. A young man with a round face and very serious expression. Expression rushes toward us. Son, I want you to meet the lady I was telling you about. The literary editor of the crisis, Ms. Jessie Fawcett. He is a slight young man with a soft voice. I Suspect he's only 15, perhaps 16. He raises his glance and holds out his hand. I'm Countee Cullen. It is my absolute pleasure to meet you. County looks at my mother, but only nods at her. It is my mother who extends her hand to his. She knows this color boy will never touch her, not even in New York. His eyes widen when she grips his hand. I'm Mrs. Fawcett, Ms. Fawcett's mother. Oh. His already high pitched voice rises as his gaze shifts between my mother and me. Reverend Cullen says, my son is quite the poet. He's been published in the Martin School magazine and recently won second place in a major poetry. His mother speaks up and he is in the honor society at DeWitt Clinton High School. To County, I say, you have made your parents proud. He nods and again avoids. Averts his eyes. I say, I'm a poet as well. I know. I've read some of your poems. In the crisis, Counties speaks so softly I have to lean forward to hear him above the dinner.

[Alison Stewart]

That's Victoria Christopher Murray. Reading from her book Harlem Rhapsody. Jesse Redmond Fawcett is described as nurturing the literary renaissance in Harlem. How so?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

You know, that's the favorite. My favorite part of the book is that each of these young, these men and women came to her very young. They hadn't been published. It was no place for black people to be published at the time. But they had a desire to write, even though they had no outlet for it. And so while she was able to nurture them, creatively editing them. And she was a tough editor because she was a writer herself, so she was a tough editor. She also helped them with their personal situations. Where Langston had issues with going to Columbia University and being discriminated against there, county was the only one who didn't really have any issues. He was just young and he wanted. He had this desire. Jean Toomer didn't want to be black. Didn't want to be black. Nella Larson didn't feel quite up to the Harlem elite. And so she was able to help them not only creatively, but personally. She did what she could to help them navigate life as very, very young people.

[Alison Stewart]

She was also really responsible for creating the Brownies book.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

So how did Jessi make herself useful in the position of creating this new magazine?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

So W.E.B. du Bois had the idea for a children's magazine. Think about this. A hundred years ago. Because black children had no positive images of themselves. None. And so he said, we have to give it to them if we want to nurture the talented 10th, if we want to grow them, they have to first see themselves as talented. And no one is telling them they are. So he had this big idea, but he didn't have anyone to execute it for him. And when she got there, she took over the entire magazine, designing it, putting together the columns, getting the writers. That's where Langston first. That's where Nella first published. And so she just brought this entire. She brought his vision to life. For him. And she fell in love with it as well.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, Jesse was educated, Cornell Upenn, a consummate professional. But she was a black woman. She was a black woman at this time. How did she have to prove herself.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Among her peers over and over and over again? You know what's makes that so interesting is that I think she would have expected to have to prove herself in white America, but she had to prove herself in black America because she was a woman. There were no women working in publishing at that time, not even at a black magazine. And even the women who were working at the crisis knew how special it was that she was there at the top with this. So she had to navigate through all kinds of things. Printers, vendors, not wanting to have any.

[Alison Stewart]

That was a story in the book that she goes to a vendor, he's not gonna talk to her, he's gonna talk to the man who comes along with her. She shows up, he calls her, I think calls her doll.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, he calls her doll all the time, asks if she was there to clean the room, and she's dressed in a suit. And she had to navigate. But you know what's so interesting about that? You can never lose your cool. You can never. So that they could say, see, I knew she was a woman. And so she had to take all of the insults, even sometimes from Du Bois. Oh, don't worry your pretty little head about this. She had to take the insults so that she could move forward.

[Alison Stewart]

In interviews, you've talked about your similarities and Jesse's. When it comes to writing and learning to become an editor. What inspired you to trans. To make the transition from corporate America to being a full time writer?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I wanted to be a writer my whole life. I came out of my mother's womb knowing I was gonna be a writer. I know people think that that's crazy. I knew I was gonna be a writer. I wrote my first masterpiece when I was seven years old. And people say you can't write a masterpiece. And when you're seven, you can if you plagiarize. And so I plagiarized a piece. I called it Betty and the Witch. And it was about a girl in a red uniform. With a hoodie. She had three bears that were her brothers, and three pigs were her sisters and seven little people. I wanted to be a writer. It was never going to be a transition for me. It was going to be when I could find my place in this industry.

[Alison Stewart]

What's changed the most for you since your first novel?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Oh, like people know my name. Now. So think about this. My first novel was 28 years ago.

[Alison Stewart]

Wow.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

So I've had a long time. This is. It looks like an overnight success, but it's not. It was a slow burn. I think people know my work now, so that's changed much. The industry really in itself hasn't changed.

[Alison Stewart]

That's good and bad.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Yeah, that's good and bad. The industry I don't find now when you find pockets of people that will support you, you found a very good thing and who believe in you beyond niches and things like that, that's a very good thing. That's changed. For me personally, I don't know if it's changed, if it's changed for the industry.

[Alison Stewart]

In our last three seconds, what advice would you give to writers who are thinking about becoming authors?

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

Two things. Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you're not writing. And if you keep treating it like a hobby, it's going to stay a hobby. So even as you don't have time go in and write and writers read. The best writers are readers.

[Alison Stewart]

Victoria Christopher Murray is a best selling author. Her forthcoming novel is A Harlem Ratsby. We've been told that you are sold out at the Schomburg.

[Victoria Christopher Murray]

I know but they said come down anyway. They are going to have a wait line so.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, have a good time tonight at the Schomburg. Stay with us after the break. We're talking all things knitting and crocheting. Stay with us.

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

Here's a way you can support WMYC in our centennial year. Donate your used car. We'll turn your old car into the news and conversation that we've been serving to the community for over 100 years. Many listeners have already donated their cars to WNYC. It's an easy way to support the station and you'll get a tax deduction. Learn [e-mail] CAR NYC now delivers the most up to date local news from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening with three updates a day. Listeners get breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from across New York City by sponsoring programming like NYC now, you'll reach our community of dedicated listeners with premium messaging and an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to get in touch and find out more.