Honoring Pearl Bowser's Contributions to Black Cinema at BAM

Summary

Podcast Summary: Honoring Pearl Bowser's Contributions to Black Cinema at BAM

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode Date: April 18, 2024
Host: Kushinat Avadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests: Gillian Bowser (Pearl Bowser’s daughter, co-curator), Gina Duncan (BAM President)
Event: "The Boom is Really an Echo: Selections from the Pearl Bowser Media Collection," BAM, April 19–21

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Overview of the Episode

This episode explores the life, legacy, and influence of Pearl Bowser—acclaimed film historian, curator, director, and the so-called "godmother of Black independent cinema." The conversation centers around a new retrospective at BAM, celebrating Bowser’s impact on Black cinema, her role as a community builder, her preservation of forgotten Black filmmakers (notably Oscar Micheaux), and even her unexpected influence in food culture through cookbooks and community gatherings. The guests reflect on Bowser's dual contributions: archiving and curating Black film, and fostering community through culinary traditions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pearl Bowser: A Lifelong Champion for Black Cinema

• Connection between generations of Black filmmakers:
  Gina Duncan explains that Bowser’s scholarship established a continuum from early Black filmmakers like Oscar Micheaux and Paul Robeson in the 1920s to the purported "explosion" of Black cinema in the 1960s–70s.

  “It was important for those Black filmmakers at the time to see themselves on this continuum... they were actually a part of a rich history that not everyone was aware of.” – Gina Duncan [03:38]

• Mission to show Black stories as told by Black communities:
  Gillian Bowser recalls Bowser’s drive to "tell your story from your community to your community for your own words," inspired by Oscar Micheaux.

  “That’s really the foundation... telling your story from your community to your community for your own words.” – Gillian Bowser [05:45]

2. Early Life, Brooklyn Roots, and Community Activism

• Harlem-born, Brooklyn-raised:
  Pearl grew up in Harlem, moved to Brooklyn at 16, and spent decades in Brooklyn Heights amid artists, activism, and educational initiatives.
• Grassroots film screenings:
  Gillian, as a child, often helped her mother project films in public libraries, emphasizing free public access to Black film history.

  “When we were very young, I was her projectionist and we would run around and show films for free so people could see these early Black films.” – Gillian Bowser [04:29]

• Brooklyn’s cultural context in the 1960s–70s:
  Gina highlights the proliferation of Black filmmaking during this era, enabled by third spaces and new distribution opportunities.

3. Pearl Bowser’s Multifaceted Contributions

• Archiving and preserving a forgotten legacy:
  Bowser’s personal archive—now housed at the Smithsonian—spans over 500 films, posters, writings, and original artwork, including works by Oscar Micheaux, Spike Lee, Julie Dash, and more.

  “She collected things and the story around the film… you could trace the history of that film and its time and place.” – Gillian Bowser [12:32]

• Food as culture and community:
  Bowser authored two soul food cookbooks and served as a food editor for Tuesdays magazine. Her legacy extended to major community events—like neighborhood pig roasts and testing recipes on family and local kids.

  “We would roast a pig in a garbage can with all the neighbors around... The whole Williton community would come together over food.” – Gillian Bowser [11:32, 11:54]
  Favorite recipe: Gingerbread made with bacon fat; Brunswick stew (sometimes with squirrel or possum); and classic mac and cheese.

4. Oscar Micheaux’s Influence and Bowser’s Dedication

• Championing Oscar Micheaux:
  Gina underscores how Micheaux’s entrepreneurial spirit—personally distributing his own films—mirrored Bowser’s work in getting erased histories back to audiences.

  “She really brought him into this modern era by essentially doing the same: taking those films around to spaces and presenting them to communities who were inspired by and needed to see that work.” – Gina Duncan [15:13]

• Projecting powerful stories:
  Gillian recounts screening “Within Our Gates” (1919), which countered racist tropes and showed Black agency in the face of adversity.

  “What makes it powerful, it’s the story of lynching and the Ku Klux Klan from the Black perspective. And it sits right next to another film that celebrates the Klan.” – Gillian Bowser [16:20]

5. Legacy, Panels, and Community Events at BAM

• Panels and food trucks:
  The BAM retrospective incorporates not just film screenings but also discussion panels with those influenced by Bowser, and concludes with a Sunday reception featuring soul food and recipe giveaways illustrated by Brooklyn artist Katie Merz.

  “The community element, which keeps coming up, is equally important... You go to see a film, you want to come out and talk with folks about what you just saw and meet those people.” – Gina Duncan [20:21]

• Passing the torch:
  Gina notes the continuity of Bowser's legacy in today's Black film programming and curation, recognizing the new generation inspired by her archival work and community focus.

6. Personal Insights and Legacy in Today's Context

• Family movie nights and seeing oneself on screen:
  Gillian emphasizes the importance for Black children to see positive and varied representations, including Black cowboys, in film—a reality Bowser worked tirelessly to establish and expose.

  “It was so important for us growing up that we saw ourselves and we saw our people in all these images.” – Gillian Bowser [25:04]

• Mentoring and inspiration:
  Bowser’s impact reaches beyond her lifetime, with young filmmakers and women citing her as inspirational, especially for telling Black stories “with your own lens to your people and not to a publisher or a big producer.” [25:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Continuum of Black Film:
  “For those Black filmmakers at the time to see themselves on this continuum... they were actually a part of a rich history.”
  – Gina Duncan [03:38]
• The Power of Community and Food:
  “The whole Williton community would come together over food. And I think that's what brought it all back together.”
  – Gillian Bowser [11:54]
• Pearl’s Archival Vision:
  “She collected things and the story around the film... so you could trace the history of that film and its time and place.”
  – Gillian Bowser [12:32]
• Telling Your Own Story:
  “Tell your story with your own lens to your people and not to a publisher or a big producer... it was all about that voice.”
  – Gillian Bowser [25:50]
• Legacy in Representation:
  “It was so important for us growing up that we saw ourselves and we saw our people in all these images.”
  – Gillian Bowser [25:04]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Host Introduction to Pearl Bowser & Event Context:
  [01:31–03:19]
• Pearl Bowser’s Early Life & Community Roots:
  [04:15–05:45]
• Bowser’s Dual Role: Cinema and Culinary:
  [08:58–12:23]
• About the Archive (Scope and Contents):
  [12:23–14:08]
• Oscar Micheaux’s Significance and Bowser’s Advocacy:
  [15:13–16:20]
• Panels, Community Events, and Food at BAM:
  [20:06–21:10]
• Bowser’s Influence on New Generations, Representation:
  [22:36–25:50]

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Tone and Language

The conversation is warm, celebratory, and deeply respectful, reflecting both the academic seriousness of Bowser’s film preservation and the heartfelt, community-centered ethos she embodied. The guests exchange anecdotes in a conversational style, peppered with personal memories and reflections on cultural heritage. The episode invites listeners to see Pearl Bowser as a connector—linking art, activism, history, and cultural nourishment.

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Takeaway

This episode offers an intimate tribute to Pearl Bowser’s multi-dimensional legacy in Black cinema and beyond. The BAM retrospective, “The Boom is Really an Echo,” is not just about films—it’s about seeing, sharing, and sustaining Black stories, cuisines, and community connections for generations to come.

Transcript

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[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

This is all of it. I'm Kushinat Avadar in for Alison Stewart. Hey, thanks for spending part of your Thursday with us. I'm really glad you're here. Coming up on today's show, we're going to speak with the playwright and the director of a new play that takes on the history of how the birth control pill was tested on Puerto Rican women. We'll talk about the Passover Seder with Rabbi Matt Green. And we're going to discuss a Lebanese cookbook that's just been reissued. That's the plan. So let's get this started with Seder. Some film history. This weekend, there's a Bam Film series celebrating the crucial legacy of a New Yorker who was an expert on black film. Pearl Bowser, who died last year at the age of 92, was a film historian, curator, author and director. She was born in Harlem and made it her mission to preserve and share her knowledge about the history of black cinema, including the work of innovative black filmmakers in the 1920s, whose work was largely forgotten by Hollywood. Pearl Bowser's collection is now held at the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History. And Culture. She's been called the godmother of black independent cinema. And tomorrow night, BAM kicks off a three day series of screenings from Bowser's archive. The series is called the Boom is really an Echo Selections from the Pearl Bowser Media Collection. It's beginning at BAM tomorrow and runs through Sunday. And with me now is Gillian Bowser, co curator and Pearl's daughter, and Gina Duncan, BAM president. Welcome both.

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Thanks so much for having us.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you for having us.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Absolutely happy you're here. The title of this event series is based on an essay Pearl Bowser wrote about the history of black cinema. And Gina, I'm wondering what about this article is so important in representing who Pearl was.

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Thank you. So I think what's really important about this article is Pearl's ability to connect what was happening in black film in the 60s and 70s, this idea of an explosion, to the film practices and what was happening with Oscar Micheaux, Paul robeson in the 1920s. So I think it was important for those black filmmakers at the time to see themselves on this continuum, as opposed to that being a real. This idea of an explosion. They were actually a part of a rich history that not everyone was aware of. Some of them, including.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

And Gillian, your mother was born in Harlem. She was a New Yorker through and through. What can you tell us about the details of her early life as a child and how her upbringing kind of paved the way for her to dedicate her later career to film?

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a wonderful. Yeah. She grew up in Harlem but moved to Brooklyn at around age 16. So she spent most of her life in Brooklyn, in Brooklyn Heights, which at that time was a very up and coming neighborhood, so to speak. It had many abandoned buildings and a lot of artists and people moving in there through the Cinderella project way back when. I think that was the foundation that there was these activists trying to get education and identities going on in Brooklyn at that time. And with the discovery or the rediscovery of Oscar Michaux's films, her mission was to show those films to all the public libraries. And when we were very young, I was her projectionist and we would run around and show films for free so people could see these early black films. And that was, I think, really the foundation of her starting.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Oh, wow. And so you were working with her from a very young age, it sounds like.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, I was a protectionist.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Oh, wow. Do you have a sense of when in your mother's life was the moment when she kind of sparked that initial interest in film? Did she Just always like, going to the movies?

[Interviewer/Host]

No. She and a good childhood friend, Charlie Hopson, who also grew up nearby and went into film and film production. There were early people emerging in black cinema and also in black news. And part of that was getting the voices told from their own communities with their own words. And I think that's really the foundation of getting started in film, is how do you tell your story from your community to your community for your own words? And that's exactly what Oscar Michaud did in the 20s. Made films for black audiences by black actors and performers to tell their story from their perspective.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

If you're just joining us, we're talking to Gillian Bowser and Gina Duncan, Gina Duncan, the band president, and Gillian Bowser, Pearl Bowser's daughter and co creator. We're talking about an upcoming film retrospective, Perspective, dedicated to Pearl Bowser, the film historian and curator. It's called the Boom is really an Echo. Selections from the Pearl Bowser Media Collection. It's happened at BAM tomorrow, and it's running through Sunday. You know, Gina, I'm. I'm listening to Gillian talk about her mother's interest in film and. And how it, you know, the way that it grew. And I'm thinking of you, actually.

[Interviewer/Host]

You.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

You've worked in the film industry for years with organizations like BAM and the Sundance Film Festival. What do you remember about when you first became aware of Pearl Bowser? And I'm wondering, do you. Is there any part of her interest in film that you see in your own story of becoming passionate in film?

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Yeah, I feel I really didn't become aware of Pearl Bowser until I left school and I went into the field, and I was an early programmer myself, just trying to figure out. And I stumbled into programming, I think, for the same motivations that Pearl had and Charlie Hobson had. I had. And as I started to learn about Pearl and her contributions and then also meet people like Michelle Mater and Mahen Bonetti, I started to find a space for myself. There were also other film scholars, archivists, and just real connectors who felt the. Who felt it was important to make sure that black audiences were exposed to work that they wouldn't necessarily see otherwise.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

You know, we talk about Pearl being from Harlem, but, Gillian, your mother went to Brooklyn College, and you were raised in Brooklyn first. Where did you live in the borough?

[Interviewer/Host]

We lived in on Joralemon street, actually. That's where she was for 65 years. So for most of that time, we grew up in Brooklyn. I went to High School of Music and art. Well, LaGuardia High School of Music, or art, as they're called now. So I think we were always into art and there was always this big art and film piece moving forward. So I think that was part of the genesis. But also I think the important thing just to mention is that my mother was also very famous for cooking. And that's part of the festival is about food and cooking and that identity with black culture, black history and food.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is an amazing part.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Absolutely. And you know, so much of that is going to be covered at these screening events. The first one is tomorrow at bam, and it actually features films made by black filmmakers in Brooklyn throughout the 60s and 70s. And I'd like to focus on that part for a bit. Gina, why was this such a prolific time for black filmmakers in Brooklyn? And what are some of the films that people can look forward to seeing?

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Well, they can look forward to seeing some films from Stan Lathan and Charles Hobson, Timon Leander. And I think it was just a time in which again and Gillian touched on this a bit. People were finding community and there were opportunities, especially within third spaces and public media that we don't really see as much today. So I think that was a big part of it, was finding community and also having access to spaces and distribution that weren't necessarily available before.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

And, you know, I want to touch back on what you were talking about, Gillian, with your mother's relationship with food, which is such an important part of her career and what she made. I know she published a cookbook in 1970. What were the contents of that book? Are there any favorite dishes your used to make?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, actually, she published two cookbooks. She was actually a food editor for an early magazine known as Tuesdays that went out of business in, I think the early 70s, late 60s. So she. Her two books that were published were both on soul food. And the fun title was it was food that was simple and fancy. So it's not for the faint hearted. One of my favorite recipes is gingerbread for making gingerbread houses that features bacon fat as a way to make the bread nice stiff and very tasty. But there's everything in there in those cookbooks from, you know, the very famous Brunswick stew, which can feature squirrel or possum or, you know, the meat of your choice, along with chitlings and black eyed peas. And of course, one of the favorites is Mac and cheese. And we'll have many of those, not all those. Some of the dishes like catfish and black eyed peas at the festival on Sunday and also show these films. They've never been shown before, but one is actually made by Charlie Hopson. So it'd be a nice way to show that history. Wow.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Can you talk a little bit more about how your mom, Pearl, kind of combined this passion for food with this passion for filmmaking?

[Interviewer/Host]

Great question. Well, we didn't actually know about these early television series that were never aired until very recently discovered them in the archives. But when we were growing up, she was the food editor, so she would test all of her food on us and all the neighborhood kids. And we also used to have these huge street fairs, and that's where the community came in, where at the end of the street fair, we would roast a pig in a garbage can with all the neighbors around. And one of the neighbors daughters, Katie Merz, is an artist in Brooklyn, and she'll be there illustrating these wonderful recipes with pigs and squirrels and catfish and everything else that were made and celebrate as part of the community. So the whole Williton community would come together over food. And I think that's what brought it all back together.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

And, you know, you mentioned her archive. I'm wondering, could you describe what else Gillian exists in your mother's archives? How many items are there in the archive?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, my goodness. There are five. Over 500 films and media pieces from Oscar Micheaux to early videos of famous Brooklyn people like Spike Lee, et cetera, Julie Dash, some of her pieces. So it was my mother collected things and the story around the film. So whether it was artwork or whether it was writings or posters, all these things were kept together so you could trace the history of that film and its time and place. And that's what made it such an important archive for. For the Smithsonian. So there's original artwork in there. There's African clothing that was originally built by another Harlemite made by another Harlemite called Ashanti Bazaar. So all this was that community that came together to celebrate history and culture. But I think the other sort of piece there is that Brooklyn was really big in the civil rights movement at that time as well. And so a lot of activism in trying to get community voices heard was an important piece and then celebrating that. And if I could add one more quick comment, one film in the archive is actually about gone off and the issue of redlining real estate areas. And what's so ironic about that film, it's made by Charlie Hobson and it actually features my father. But, you know, redlining is now a big issue, especially for that area of Brooklyn. But this was an issue way back when. Trying to get the community to tell its story.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Oh, wow.

[Interviewer/Host]

And protect itself. Yeah. But it's called Same Old Game.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Same Old Game.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it's airing on Friday.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Wonderful. If you're just joining us, you're listening in. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar. We're talking about Pearl Bowser. We're joined by Gillian Bowser, Pearl's daughter and co curator and Gina Duncan, the band president. Gillian, the co creator of this new upcoming film retrospective dedicated to Pearl Bowser who is the film historian. And it is called the Boom is really an Echo. Selections from the Pearl Bowser Media Collection. It's happening at BAM starting tomorrow. It's running through Sunday. We're talking about Pearl Bowser's work both as a, you know, film historian, film curator, film film director and also as a person in the the food world. And we, you know, have mentioned a couple times this other person, Oscar Michaux. And I'd love to get into him. Gina, what was Oscar most known for when it his contribution to black cinema? And how did Pearl go about preserving his work?

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

I think one of the things that has always motivated me about Oscar, I've always admired about Oscar Michaud and what I often tell to a lot of young filmmakers was his understanding that if these films were going to be presented to the audiences he was making them for, he needed to go out and do that himself. So he was very much an entrepreneurial, one of the early self distributors and it was a necessity to make sure that the films as intended were put in front of the audience as he intended them for and for Pearl. I think Pearl did it really, you know, for a lot of black filmmakers and artists, our histories are often erased. And so Pearl, as a collector and an archivist herself, really brought him into this modern era by essentially doing the same, taking those films around to spaces and presenting them to communities who were inspired by and needed to see that work.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Gillian, do you remember your mom ever doing that? As Gina's describing, bringing Oscar Micheaux's work and showing it. Did you ever project his movie?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, yeah. We projected his movies or restored copies of his movies on projector at the public libraries. But I think one of the most powerful pieces is actually now on display at the Smithsonian which is a film called Within Our Gates. And what makes it powerful, it's the story of lynching and the Ku Klux Klan from the black perspective. And it sits right next to another film that celebrates the Ku Klux Klan and the Beauty of that is to show that the black community was experiencing these horrors, but also actively trying to do things and actively trying to get justice and not a passive observer of what was going on. So to see that was really powerful. And another sort of wonderful thing is that his films were also shot in South Dakota. Many of them were shot in South Dakota and Gregory, South Dakota, and they depicted people, black people on horses, black people as homesteaders, which is true. The town of Nicodemus is one of the oldest black settlements in the West. And it was important for people to see that. That, you know, black cowboys are out there very, very early. And black townships existed, you know, and there were people and vibrant communities in the 1800s that were all black. And he celebrated that. He tried to bring that back, and she brought that back for us to all see. I remember. I remember growing up thinking, well, you know, black cowboys, yeah, they were. They existed because we saw these films with black cowboys in them. And that was a really important piece.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

In South Dakota, you said is. Did I hear that right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Correct? Yeah. Here's Oscar Michelle homesteaded in Gregory, South Dakota, in a sod home. And some. Many of his films were shot on site, you know, so they was easier for them to bring people in and shoot the film on, quote, unquote, sets out in the wilderness. So, yeah, the home, I don't think is still standing. It was for quite some time. But it's an amazing piece of legacy of the early black fur trappers or early black snooties to the west of the Mississippi that were established for a long time. So it's really fun to look at that.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

And I understand that on top of watching films that are in Pearl's archive, there's also going to be a screening of a movie that Pearl actually directed called the Guest. Gillian, can you tell us what the film is about and how you would describe your mother's style or vision as a director?

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow, that was such an early film. That's probably not the best example. She made this film as she got started with Third World's Newsreel, and they will be. I think it's the Saturday JT is going to come and talk as well, during that early period of trying to tell stories in different ways. And the whole purpose behind the Guest, very similar to Oscar Michaud, is to explore interracial relationships, which Oscar Michelle did a lot of. And these are just short films. I think the honest is that the experience of making a short film was more important than the film itself, because then she could See from the projector's point of view, from the producer's point of view. But she went on to work on other, bigger pieces, Namibia now, that was co produced with Christine Choi and others. So all of these are ways to see, see from both sides of the lens, how to be that filmmaker, but how to also help direct the story. And. And her passion was telling the story. So her first company was Shamba Educational Film Services. And that was the goal, to educate the black community about these films.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

After the screening each weekend, there's also going to be panels, right? And then. Then on Sunday, there's also going to be a reception. Gina, I'm wondering if you could talk a little more about that. What can people coming to Bamboo expect from the panels? And can you tell us a little bit more about Sunday's festivities?

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

So the panels throughout the weekend, we'll hear from folks who've been influenced by Pearl's work or had contributed. And I on Sunday, I know Gilly and I are really excited about the food truck that's coming. I think that, you know, oftentimes, especially for institutions like bam, people tend to think about them as spaces, like austere spaces, in which it's just about seeing the work and appreciating the art. And that is always important. But the community element, which keeps coming up a lot here in this conversation, is also equally important. And it's great. You know, you go to see a film, you want to come out and talk with folks about what you just saw and meet those people. And so we will have a food truck. We'll have the chop shop that will be outside. And Gillian, do you want to add any more?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, definitely. So we're also going to be giving away soul food recipes that will be illustrated by Katie Merz, who's another local artist. And as I said before, one person I grew up with. And we're celebrating things like the pigs in the can, because that was an important part of that sense of community. Everyone gathering around a meal at the end of the day. So we'll be giving out recipes and, you know, just trying to get people to think about soul food, the depth of soul food. Her first cook cookbook, which was actually co published with Joan Eckstein, so it's actually published under Joan Bowser way back when, by Tuesday publications, what they did was to celebrate all the food that they could get locally, but also the black heritage. And so the community would get this food every year at the Willettown Fair. And so I think it's just Such an important. Bringing it back home to the importance of community and having some art there. And it's going to be really fun. So we're really excited about that. We'll be giving away recipes and we have. Yeah. Just to have it fun. So people think about soul food and that it's a. It's like the blue machine echo we hear now with the chef. People say, oh, yeah, soul food is rediscovered or newly discovered. But, you know, she was cooking soul food in the 60s and 50s and writing about it and filming it.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Right. And it's wonderful to be able to celebrate that alongside her films. And, you know, Gina, I'm wondering, in terms of her films, kind of looking forward by looking backward, is it possible, you think, to see the legacy of Pearl Bowser in the work of black filmmakers today in any way?

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Absolutely. I mentioned some curators that I have been inspired by that I think are a continuation of Pearl's legacy. And I think one of the panels that we have this weekend, Melissa Lide, who has Alfredo Cinema, who's doing similar work in terms of connecting Brooklyn audiences and really audiences across New York City with contemporary black filmmakers who they may not be aware of. And also past, I think for myself, including when I first came to BAM in 2017 to originally to run the film program, that was during the time when the Oscars. So white conversation was really prominent. And one of the things I saw in terms of BAM having both a first run film program and a repertory film program was the opportunity for that juxtaposition of the past and the new. And when we decided at that time to really have our repertory film program focus on the work of filmmakers who are often left out of the history of film, we started to develop a following that then was asking questions around like, okay, well, if. If black people, women in Native Americans, et cetera, have been making films and have been a part of this history since the very beginning, why are they not here now? What's happening? How come people are falling out? And over time, what we've also noticed now is that those folks who were coming to the repertory program and still coming are now showing up in droves for new films from bipoc filmmakers and women filmmakers. And that has allowed us, bam to actually distinguish itself in New York City as being one of the art houses that can bring big audiences for new films from those people.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Oh, wow. It's a wonderful legacy to leave and to see. And you know, Gillian, as we're wrapping up, I would just love to know you talk about bringing it Home. Were family movie nights a big thing at your house, or was there a movie you and your mom love to watch together?

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a great question, because, again, I was a projector. Actually, one of our greatest funs when the films were first found and brought out, and we would show them upstairs in our house with the old cartoons. And some of them survived and some of them didn't, but these were cartoons that in today's world would probably be seen as quite offensive. But it was. I think it was important for us to see that. And I think my mom wanted us to see these images next to films of cowboys and cowboys, you know, conquering and succeeding. And they were all black. And so it was very. I actually now live in the West. I live in Colorado. And people will still say, oh, well, black people were never cowboys. I was like, oh, my God. There was this long, very rich history of black cowboys and black pioneers and all these people who broke ceilings. So I think it was so important for us growing up that we saw ourselves and we saw our people in all these images. And I just want to do a quick shout out. You know, the Real Sisters is a group that was established to help women, particularly black women and others in film. And, you know, they hosted a little memorial. And it was so powerful to hear young women who never met my mother say how much it was inspiring to hear that there were people pushing for tell your own story with your own lens to your people and not to a publisher or a big producer, and that they were people who would distribute and help that voice get out. It was all about that voice. And that's what she was really powerful for.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

It's an important voice.

[Interviewer/Host]

And she's a very good cook.

[Kushinat Avadar (Host of 'This is All of It')]

Yeah, and a very good cook. And, you know, if you want to experience the vast spectrum and work of Pearl Bowser, you can check out. The boom is really an echo. Selections from the Pearl Bowser Media collection. It's happening at BAM starting tomorrow and running through Sunday. We've been talking to Gillian Bowser, who was is Pearl's Bowser's daughter and co creator, and Gina Duncan, the band president. Thank you both so much for coming on and telling us about this.

[Gina Duncan (BAM President)]

Thanks for having us.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Interviewer/Host]

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[Interviewer/Host]

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[Lewis Capaldi (BetterHelp Ad)]

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[Interviewer/Host]

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