Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Kusha Navadar (WNYC)
Episode: How a New Deal Era Music Unit Inspired a Generation of Folk Musicians
Date: June 21, 2024
Guest: Cheryl Kaskowitz, musicologist and author of A Chance to Harmonize: How FDR’s Hidden Music Unit Sought to Save America from the Great Depression, One Song at a Time

Episode Overview

This episode explores a little-known chapter from the New Deal era: a government-sponsored “Music Unit" that used folk music as a tool for social recovery after the Great Depression. Musicologist Cheryl Kaskowitz joins to discuss her deep-dive research into the program's origins, operations, political climate, and cultural legacy—especially its influence on the mid-20th century folk revival. The conversation blends historical narrative, archival audio examples, and personal insights into how music binds communities and shapes national identity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Music Unit & Its Key Figures

• The Music Unit began in New York City, forming out of jam sessions on West 8th Street hosted by artist Thomas Benton.
• Charles Seeger (musicologist and avant-garde composer), Ruth Crawford Seeger, and Margaret Valiant (Southern musician and activist) were core to its genesis.
• Quote:

  “Charles Seeger. It was where he discovered American folk music. He really hadn’t known about it before... And he and his wife Ruth Crawford Seeger... discovered these recordings and the music that the Harmonica Rascals played.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 04:02)

2. The Resettlement Administration & Unique Approach

• The Music Unit was housed under the Resettlement Administration (RA), not the better-known WPA.
• The RA's scope: Experimentation with communal “homesteads” for families affected by the Great Depression, focusing on cooperative living and rebuilding morale.
• Music was used not merely to employ musicians, but as a social glue to help homestead communities bond.
• Quote:

  "It was really using music... as a social use of music to form community."
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 07:17)

3. Political Context and Secrecy

• The unit operated under the radar due to political sensitivity—cooperative initiatives were seen by critics as borderline socialism.
• Much correspondence was marked "confidential" to avoid controversy.
• Quote:

  “A lot of the correspondence... was marked confidential, sometimes very confidential.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 08:42)

4. Why Folk Music?

• Folk was chosen for its “expression of the people” quality, resonating with both FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt.
• Charles Seeger’s vision: collect and play the music already embedded within these communities rather than import outside genres.

5. Fieldwork & Recordings (with Audio Clips)

• The Music Unit collected over 800 songs (e.g., “Old Blue,” “Goin’ Down the Road Feeling Bad,” and “Rockabye Baby”).
• The technical side: field workers lugged 150-pound disc-cutting machines and heavy aluminum discs into rural areas.
• Margaret Valiant and Sidney Robertson were notable field collectors, with Robertson especially focused on music as it was used in everyday life and labor activism.
• Quote:

  “Sidney Robertson... was really interested in not necessarily finding, you know, the performers in a group, but how was music being used? What everyday songs... These were protest songs, which she actually had to be even quieter about.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 16:26)

6. Race, Segregation, and Integration through Music

• The program existed within the Jim Crow South, so most homesteads engaged by the Music Unit were segregated.
• The official line was inclusivity, but in practice, implementation deferred to local "social customs."
• A listener’s text prompted discussion about the subtle integration of Black music into white traditions:

  “They had a kind of romanticized... idea about white folk music from Appalachia, which was not true. That music came just as much from Black traditions as white traditions... You can’t actually segregate music in the way that they hoped to.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 19:10)

7. Demise of the Music Unit & Political Shifts

• The Resettlement Administration was absorbed into the Department of Agriculture, becoming the Farm Security Administration, and non-agricultural programs like the Music Unit were dissolved.
• Political controversy and backlash against "radical" programs, coupled with shifting coalitions in Congress, sealed its fate.
• Quote:

  "There was a growing coalition of Southern Democrats and conservative Republicans who were pushing back against a lot of the most... radical ideas from the New Deal."
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 20:57)

8. Influence on the Folk Revival

• The recordings and ethos of the Music Unit directly influenced the folk music revival of the 1950s and 1960s.
• Charles Seeger was Pete Seeger’s father; Alan Lomax, whose work was pivotal in the folk revival, was involved in this scene and helped train field collectors like Sidney Robertson.
• Pete Seeger grew up listening to these recordings, and the song sheets made by his father matched his later repertoire.
• Quote:

  “What I say is the fingerprints are all over the folk revival, if you know where to look.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 22:59)

9. Archival Experience & Preservation

• Cheryl Kaskowitz describes the profound feeling of sitting in the Library of Congress, listening to scratchy reel-to-reel transfers of these historic discs.
• She encourages listeners with family connections or stories about the recordings to reach out via her website.
• Quote:

  “It felt like such a gift to be able to do that.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 25:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Music as Social Glue:

  “It was really using music... as a social use of music to form community.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 07:17)

• On the Political Risks:

  “A lot of the correspondence... was marked confidential, sometimes very confidential.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 08:42)

• On Race and Segregation:

  “You can’t actually segregate music in the way that they hoped to.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 19:10)

• On the Unit’s Influence:

  “The fingerprints are all over the folk revival, if you know where to look.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 22:59)

• Personal Connection:

  “It felt like such a gift to be able to do that.”
  (Cheryl Kaskowitz, 25:41)

Important Timestamps

• 02:02 — Introduction of the episode’s topic
• 03:38 — Background of the Music Unit’s founders
• 05:27 — Explanation of the Resettlement Administration’s scope
• 07:17 — Music as a social function for community building
• 08:42 — The secrecy and political sensitivities
• 10:49 — Focus on geographic areas (Appalachia and the South)
• 13:56 — Sample song: “Goin’ Down the Road Feeling Bad”
• 15:40 — Sample song: “Rockabye Baby”
• 17:47 — Segregation in the program
• 19:10 — Subtle integration of Black musical influences
• 20:12 — Ending of the program and politics
• 22:01 — Direct lines to the folk revival (Pete Seeger, Lomax)
• 25:41 — Kaskowitz’s personal reflections on archival listening
• 25:51 — How listeners can connect with Kaskowitz

Conclusion

This episode shines a light on a nearly forgotten social experiment—a government-backed folk music initiative that both reflected and shaped American attitudes about art, identity, and community during the Great Depression. Cheryl Kaskowitz’s research both recovers long-lost songs and traces their influence on pivotal figures of the folk revival, demonstrating how music’s power reaches far beyond entertainment, fostering solidarity and cultural legacy across troubled times.

For more on the subject, visit Cheryl Kaskowitz’s website for recordings and contact, or see her at the Roosevelt Reading Festival at the FDR Library.