Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: How Artist Carol Bove Plays With Steel
Date: March 11, 2026
Guests: Carol Bove (Artist), Kathryn Brinson (Guggenheim Curator)
Main Theme: Exploring Carol Bove’s career, her new Guggenheim retrospective, and the playful, accessible spirit behind her monumental steel sculptures.

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on artist Carol Bove’s expansive new solo exhibition at the Guggenheim Museum, organized by curator Kathryn Brinson. The conversation examines Bove’s creative evolution—traced in reverse through the museum’s iconic spiral—and delves into how her works turn heavy, rigid materials into whimsical, kinetic-seeming forms. The episode celebrates Bove’s playful relationship with space, accessibility, and the experience of art, offering insights for art aficionados and new visitors alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Exhibition’s Structure and Curatorial Decisions

[02:35–06:44]

• The show is arranged in reverse chronological order, starting with Bove’s newest, largest steel works on the rotunda's ground floor and ascending up to her early 2000s pieces.
• Kathryn Brinson notes the importance of this structure:

  “You step into the current creative moment for the artist, and then you trace back the origins of how she got to the current moment.” (03:28)

• The ground-floor placement was also practical, as newer works are tall and heavy, fitting best in the two-story high gallery entrance.
• A sense of ‘spiritual ascension’ echoes Frank Lloyd Wright’s vision for the Guggenheim, with works getting physically and texturally lighter as visitors ascend.

Collaboration and Creative Process

[05:35–06:44]

• Carol and Kathryn have been developing this show for nearly 10 years, with periods of intense involvement and long pauses.
• Carol Bove describes the collaboration fondly:

  “You’re just so great, just such a genius, and really, like, let me play in the sandbox for, like, eight years.” (05:10)

• Kathryn’s “gentle pressure” guided the exhibition’s final form, giving structure without stifling Bove’s creativity.

Space, Perspective, and Viewer Experience

[07:46–09:54]

• Bove builds to the unique proportions of exhibition rooms, creating models (some at full scale) to anticipate visitors’ shifting perspectives.
• Kathryn praises Bove’s attention to the bodily, spatial experience:

  “She works with space as much as with objects... decisions really surface the weirdness of the building.” (08:28)

• Bove wants the exhibition to feel physically welcoming, providing “resting points” and couches throughout, emphasizing the importance of comfort and inclusivity in art spaces:

  “When you’re accommodated as a human being who has a body… we can then have sympathy for ourselves and sympathy for each other.” (09:55)

Playfulness and Monumentality in Steel Sculpture

[11:13–13:29]

• The steel sculptures, while monumental in scale, are dynamic, colorful, and arranged to encourage empathy rather than domination.
• Kathryn notes the balance:

  “They play with monumentality and anti-monumentality at the same time.” (13:29)

• Bove strives for a “non-dominating” interaction, letting visitors relate emotionally and physically to the work without being overwhelmed.

Accessibility, Children, and Audience Engagement

[13:39–16:02]

• Both Bove and Brinson discuss museums as intimidating spaces and advocate for approaches (like seating, tactile exhibits, and inviting atmospheres) that demystify them—especially for children.
• Carol Bove:

  “Children are the best audience. They just haven’t been hypnotized into some of our maladaptive ideas.” (13:49) “If you feel welcome in a museum, then you feel welcome forever.” (13:58)

• Brinson adds:

  “Great work takes us back to that state [of wild imagination and wonder].” (15:33)

The Language of Steel: Glyphs and Color

[16:49–19:15]

• Bove’s “glyphs,” like her famous High Line installation, are minimal steel forms referencing the smallest units of written language.
• She describes her approach to color in sculpture:

  “I have the feeling that there’s a set of colors that I can use, but I have to discern them… that they already exist somewhere.” (18:55)

Subverting Gendered Traditions in Sculpture

[19:15–20:56]

• Traditional steel sculpture has a masculine association; Bove’s work disrupts this with softness, playfulness, and bodily references rather than displays of force.
• Kathryn notes the “effortlessness” and humanity embedded in Bove’s steel forms, drawing analogies to draped fabrics or paper, inviting emotional connection.

Touching, Intuition, and The “Tactile Library”

[21:04–24:57]

• Bove discusses finishing works by “a voice in my stomach that says it’s finished.” (21:04)
• Many visitors want to touch her illusionistic surfaces; while the sculptures can’t be touched directly, the exhibition includes a “tactile library”—a dedicated space for handling materials, tools, and studio elements.
• Kathryn describes this as “a core part of the exhibit,” providing an Alice in Wonderland-like space for interactive exploration:

  “Carol has really transformed it into this wholly interactive space. ...The response has been surprisingly glowing.” (22:37–24:57)

Assemblage, Taboo, and Artistic Development

[24:57–28:03]

• Discussing early works, Bove recalls drawing inspiration from once-taboo, now nostalgic forms like surrealist assemblage.
• Looking back across her career, Bove acknowledges anxiety about her early work but, guided by Kathryn, realizes the apparent leaps in her style are actually natural evolutions:

  “People… think that there was a radical pivot in my work, but actually one thing just follows from the next.” (27:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kathryn Brinson:

  “This was the one that had a sense of, as Carol said, revelation. Even this sort of ecstatic ascension…” (05:48)

• Carol Bove:

  “I’m a sitting down in museum zealot… It can be part of the transformation of the world.” (09:55)

• Carol Bove, regarding children as museum-goers:

  “They just haven’t been hypnotized into like some of our maladaptive ideas. And they're really curious.” (13:58)

• Carol Bove, on finishing a work:

  “I have a… voice in my stomach that says it’s finished.” (21:04)

• Kathryn Brinson, on the tactile library:

  “Carol has really transformed it into this wholly interactive space. ...You can touch a peacock feather or a piece of driftwood or a piece of the painted surface of the manipulated steel elements, you can also create some of the beadwork…” (22:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction to the exhibition | 01:39–02:35 | | How exhibition structure was decided | 02:35–06:44 | | Designing for space and perspective | 07:28–09:54 | | On steel’s monumentality and empathy in art | 11:13–13:39 | | Children, accessibility, and breaking barriers | 13:39–16:02 | | On glyphs, color, and visual language | 16:49–19:15 | | Subverting masculine associations in steel sculpture| 19:15–20:56 | | The tactile library and inviting interaction | 21:04–24:57 | | Early assemblages, taboos, and evolution | 24:57–28:03 | | Concluding remarks | 28:03–28:28 |

Conclusion

Alison Stewart’s conversation with Carol Bove and Kathryn Brinson presents an insightful look at how an imaginative artist and a sensitive curator shape an exhibition that invites play, self-discovery, and inclusivity—while challenging expectations of both material and museum-going itself. With an atmosphere of curiosity and empathy, the episode encourages listeners to approach art—and public spaces—less as intimidating temples, more as sites for wonder and welcome.