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Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports. And nothing brings us together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBCUniversal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching, we're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same. Team Comcast, proud partner of Team usa.
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This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Reverend Jesse Jackson passed away last week at the age of 84. New Yorkers, especially those living here in the city in the 80s, remember him as an influential figure. Jackson ran for the Democratic presidential nomination twice in the 1980s. Here he is at Concord Bapster Church in Bed Stuy in December of 1983, speaking directly to people in poverty and telling them to stand together as he prepared for a year of campaigning.
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Poor folks stop looking for Santa Claus to come from North Pole once a year. Nobody, including Santa Claus, will save the poor. Far the poor, but the poor. And when the poor come together, they ain't poor anymore.
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Jackson lost both races in 84 and 88, but he won New York City in the 1988 primary with a record turnout of minority voters who were part of his Rainbow Coalition. And experts believe that his campaign paved the way for New York to elect its first black mayor, David Dinkins, just a year later. Arun Venigapal is WNYC Gothamist senior reporter on the and justice desk. He recently wrote an article called From Dinkins to Jesse Jackson's New York City Political Legacy. He's here now to reflect on the leader. Hi Arun.
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D
Hi, Alison.
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Listeners, we want to get you in on the conversation. Were you in New York in the 80s? Arm walls, what do you remember about Jesse Jackson's campaign for president, especially how he campaigned here in the city? Call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC did you ever meet Jackson while campaigning or see him speak? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC how important was New York to his campaign for president?
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D
It was very important, Alison. At the time, as you mentioned, there was this record turnout. They really mobilized communities of color specifically and other communities around this working class appeal that Jesse Jackson had. And in a way that I think people who are younger or who are just thinking about the present day can Maybe really relate to. We have a mayor in Zoramdani who really kind of sort of recalibrated what electoral politics could look like. He reached out to communities that were seen as sort of invisible or just unreached and drove those people to the polls. That's really what happened in 1984, 1988. And that came on the heels of Jesse Jackson's connection to, you know, sort of other issues about poverty, about apartheid that he really connected in New York City with issues of their time. And in some ways those are the things that really paved the way for future politicians, including people like Mamdani.
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Jesse Jackson ran for President twice in 84 and 88. He never won the Democratic nomination. It was Mondale in 84 and Dukakis in 88. But he did make a big impact on the country and especially New York state. What was going on in the city that led to him having the amount of support that he had?
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D
Well, I think a couple people come to mind. One is David Dinkins, who was the Manhattan borough president in the late 80s and who helped run Jackson's New York campaign. He was the co chair of that campaign for the whole state. And then people like Bill Lynch, a legendary political advisor who were also very much involved and helped identify these sort of overlooked, you know, invisible sort of quote unquote communities that really had suddenly understood and recognized and appreciated the stake that they had in this race. And they drove, you know, they drove them to the polls. And that in turn really paved the way for Dinkins own run in in 89, which you know, became the first, you know, non white in this city's history.
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Do you think it's true that Jesse
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Jackson had an influence on him being
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mayor, Dinkins being mayor?
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D
Oh, I mean, absolutely. You know, when you speak to experts who's really study this, there was very much a connection. It was both his influence and his involvement in that race. But it was also the timing. You know, we tend to tell ourselves in New York City is always ahead of the pack. But in many ways, in many ways when it comes to this kind of machine politics, it's held back by many forces and terms of sort of democracy writ large. I grew up in Houston, which had a female mayor in the early 80s in Kathy Whitmire. I don't think we've had any mayors who are female mayors in this city since then. At the time, other cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, they were all electing black mayors. And so on the heels of this sort of like re energized kind of electorate driven through these campaigns in 1984 and 88, through Jackson's campaigns, and really mobilizing a lot of communities across the city, across the five burroughs. You know, suddenly David Dinkins appreciated that he did have a chance and he proved that he was right.
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How involved was Jesse Jackson in the Dinkins administration at all?
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D
You know, there was. What's interesting about this is that, like, you know, Jackson had politics that were a little more, I guess, to the left, if you will, than Dinkins himself had. And so there was some distance. Dinkins kind of kept his distance from Jack Jackson. There are certain issues that at the time were, I guess, considered more provocative and controversial, such as Jackson's support for the Palestinian cause, you know, which is, of course, a perennial issue and one that's really come to the fore in this. In this city in the last two or three years. And I suppose, you know, that was. That was an issue that was sensitive at the time, especially people like Rudy Giuliani really tried to make hay out of some of, you know, Jackson's statements and Jackson's connection to people like Louis Farrakhan, who was, you know, the head of the Nation of Islam at the time. These were sensitive issues at that time, just as they are to some extent today.
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We're reflecting on the Reverend Jesse Jackson's impact on New York politics. My guest is Arun Venugopal, wnyc, and Gotham is senior reporter on the Race and Justice desk, who recently wrote the article From Dinkins to Jesse Jackson's NYC Political Legacy. We're also hearing for you, what do you remember about Jesse Jackson's campaigns for president in the 1980s?
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Did you see him speak?
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Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's go to Eleanor in Manhattan. Hi, Eleanor, thanks for calling, all of it.
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Hi, thanks for having me on. I wanted to talk about the time I heard Jesse Jackson speak with my daughter. She was going to Barnard College. It was in late 1980s, maybe 1989. And there was a Parents Day where a parent went on campus or both parents, and there were scheduled activities and you walked around and saw things. And we went over to the campus of Columbia University and Jesse Jackson was giving a speech, I believe, on the steps of the library, talking about anti apartheid issue, which was a big issue at the time. And we just stopped in our tracks to listen. He was such a galvanizing speaker. And I think we didn't attend the next scheduled event that we were supposed to attend because we were enraptured listening to him speak. I'll always remember that.
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Eleanor, thank you so much for calling. Let's talk to Patrick in Manhattan. Hi, Patrick, thanks for calling, all of it.
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Thank you so much for taking my call. So I am calling from Manhattan. My name is Patrick Gaspar, and I had the good fortune of working on Jesse Jackson's campaign in 88. I should call it being a part of Jesse Jackson's movement in 88. And I was also a young, very, very young staffer for Mayor Dinkins campaign in 89 and his administration. And I just heard you ask whether or not Dinkins would have won if not for Jackson's run. And the answer is absolutely, positively no way. There's no way. This city was really divided. Profound polarization, much of it along racial lines. There were communities that people like me just could not ever think about stepping into. Like Bensonhurst. The city's much change now. Jackson's run was a bridge across communities. And it gave us a sense of what might be possible if we organize and we're strategic. And we pushed back against kind of really troubling, disconcerting projections that were coming from Mayor Koch then in his third term. If not for Jackson's run, there's no way we win an 89.
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Patrick, thank you for calling. This text says Arun. This is. It's funny, it says, this may sound trivial, but I remember him on SNL reading Dr. Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham and realizing he could read anything and have you wish to storm the citadels. His voice was so moving and powerful. And it's interesting because he did use popular culture early on. He was on Sesame street in 1972. What about Sesame street captured New York at the time. And what was Jesse Jackson trying to communicate by being on Sesame Street?
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D
Oh, it is an incredible thing to watch, Alison, to watch that clip. I was so moved by it. You know, it's kind of funny, right? Sesame street is both a mythic place and it's quintessential New York, right? Like, you know, it's kind of gritty. You've got Oscar the Grouch. It's like, you know, it's like all the people that we know and it's got all these kids from different backgrounds and him going on there and just telling kids and sort of like having them sort of participate in this chant about, you know, you can be on welfare, but, you know, but you matter. You are important. You know, how you can be poor, you can look different from all the others. And these kids, you know, and the cameras are scanning past all these kids of different backgrounds. You know, I am white. I am brown. I'm black. They're all chanting this along with him. And I've never seen anything like it. And so it's kind of like, you know, that was just soon after the foundation, you know, the creation of the show and, you know, which was kind of very much a product of the Great Society and LBJ and all, you know, the promise of public media. And you see how someone like him identified that promise and really went to town on. In a way that you see these kind of kids who are old enough to realize that they're part of something called really like unlike anything else. It was. It's very moving. I mean, I think everybody should really go if they want to understand Jesse Jackson's power. It's not only to hear. See him or hear him talking to adults about apartheid and that are. It's about to make people realize that no matter what their age is, that they matter.
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Let's listen to a little bit of it. This is sesame street from 1972 with Jesse Jackson.
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I may be poor, I may be poor But I am somebody, somebody. I may be young, but I am somebody. I may be on welfare, but I am somebody. I may be small, but I am somebody. I may make a mistake. I may make mistakes, but I am. I am somebody, somebody. My clothes are different. My clothes are different. My face is different. My face is different. My hair is different. My hair is different. But I am. But I am somebody, somebody. I am black. I am black, brown, brown, white, white. I speak a different language. I speak a different language. But I must be respected. I respect it. Protected, Protected. Never rejected. I am God's child.
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We got this text. It says, regarding Jesse Jackson. He did so much for the black community and our entire society at large. Sadly, much of his good efforts were forever marred by his reference to Jews. We have to have this part of the conversation. The Washington Post reported that Jackson referred
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to New York and to New Yorkers by using anti.
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An anti Semitic slur in a private conversation. The New York Times said Jackson thought those conversations were off the record. How much work did he do to repair his reputation with Jewish voters?
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D
A significant amount, Alison. He took. He spent years trying to undoing the damage. I think, you know, it probably depends on who you speak to if it was effective. There were definitely people out there, including Jewish New York New Yorkers, leaders who. Who felt that he acquitted himself. He, he, he Spent. He took that political capital. They had the access to people in power. He went to world leaders with significant Jewish populations and, you know, spoke up, up for the need to protect persecuted populations. And, you know, he also, you know, invoked language that was meant to, I guess, you know, address this in terms of speaking up for the need for Zionism, for instance, you know, and things that perhaps at the time were complicated given that he had been so vocal for the Palestinian cause as well. But I think by in terms of many Jewish New Yorkers and people across the world who were really hurt by the comments that he made, he did spend a lot of his energy undoing the harm.
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E
Considering his legacy and his political message, what lessons do you think there are for New York politics and life today?
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D
You know, it is interesting to one of the quotes that really stayed with me from someone I interviewed for the story, Gene Theoharis, a distinguished scholar at cuny, who said, you know, one of the shoulders that Zoran Hamdani stands on is Jesse Jackson's. She also referred to Jesse Jackson as the Bernie Sanders of his time. You know, there are all these crumbs from, you know, the heyday of Jesse Jackson's political career in the 1980s to now that, you know, you could say, sort of lead us down the path to the present moment where, you know, I say this again, as a kid who grew up in, you know, in the. The suburbs of Texas, never really heard much about, you know, democratic socialism, whatever, but because of what, you know, Zoran Mamdani built upon, the legacy of Jesse Jackson, now these ideas have kind of taken root, really, in the public consciousness across the country, across the world. I was traveling last year, you know, well before he was elected, and people in different places, Turkey in Heathrow Airport, you know, in Texas, everybody was talking about this person, Zoram Hamdani, because New York City provides that sort of springboard for ideas, you know, for good and bad. You know, when you think about Occupy Wall street, it started right downtown, you know, that launched a conversation about inequality the same way in which, you know, Zoram Hamdani has taken ideas that are seen as threatening to some people. Ideas about, you know, economic inequality, but also about racial coalitions changing the thing. And a lot of people say, like, you know, you have to really look at the roots of that. And for many people, Jesse Jackson was right there at the beginning.
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My guest has been Arun Venugopal, WNYC and Gothamist, senior reporter on the Race and Justice desk. You should read his piece from Dinkins to Zoron, Jesse Jackson's NYC political legacy. Hey everyone. Thank you for your time today.
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D
Thanks a lot, Allison.
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