Christine Yu (3:07)

I mean, so when I first went into the prison, you know, of course, I didn't know what to expect. I was going in there to observe a half marathon event. And I entered with the coaches going down onto the San Quentin yard, you know, for the first time. And, you know, they walk. You have to walk all the way down. It's probably about, I don't know, about quarter of a mile, half a mile to your final destination. From the time you enter through the gates. And as the men were gathering before that half marathon event, it was. The feeling was festive, I have to say. And that feeling of festivity inside of prison struck me as very ironic and just completely turned my expectations and preconceived notions about prison upside down. And then when I started talking with the guys and some of them were making me laugh, you know, and again, that was just such. Such an unexpected thing I felt to happen inside prison walls, you know, but as I started thinking about it more, I thought, well, you know, just because people are in prison, it doesn't mean that they stop being themselves.

Kusha Naffadar (4:29)

Yeah. And I know you have a personal relationship with the prison system. How did that impact your drive to start this film?

Christine Yu (4:36)

Yes, you know, early. Late 90s, early 2000s, I had a friend that was wrongfully convicted, and so he was sentenced to 271 years in California State Prison. He was also Korean American. So I was deeply impacted by his situation. And that. That definitely led me to questioning, you know, just wondering if I had to spend the rest of my days inside a prison. You know, what does that look like? What does that look like for people? So I felt that the marathon was a great, you know, metaphor, but also a great opportunity to explore that question, listeners.

Kusha Naffadar (5:23)

If you're just joining us, we're talking about the new documentary 26.2 to life. It's a documentary about the San Quentin marathon, where prisoners inside of San Quentin prison run a full marathon and train for living inside the prison walls. It's streaming now on espn, and we're talking to the director, Christine Yu. And, Christine, I think it'd be best to hear from someone in your film about what the actual marathon route is like. Here's a clip from your film where a few trainers explain the route.

Markell Taylor (5:56)

The San Quentin marathon is way harder than any of the hardest hilly marathons I ran outside of here. I don't want to even call it a track because it's a loop with 690 degree turn turns in it. That's hard. And plus you're running in an environment where there's a couple thousand other people out in the yard and you kind of gotta move around them. I mean, most of the guys are very, very respectful. But.

Kusha Naffadar (6:20)

Markell, you're doing great.

Markell Taylor (6:23)

Is there a better punishment than running? That's every other sports punishment. Go run 10 laps or whatever.

Tommy (6:31)

Right.

Kusha Naffadar (6:32)

If a marathon trainer says it's tough, then, you know the route is definitely going to be tough. When you first learned about the marathon ro, what went through your mind?

Christine Yu (6:42)

I mean, these guys are, you know, it's like, you know, running on a hamster wheel type of thing. And I run that loop before that pathway inside the prison. I would go inside and, you know, continued to run with the guys. And it's, it's a hard pathway because it's got uphill slope and a downhill slope. And then, you know, the yard doesn't shut down for the marathon. So if people are unaware of what's going on, you know, you have all kinds of people cross, crisscrossing, going in opposite directions. So, yeah, it's, it's dizzying or.

Kusha Naffadar (7:22)

Were you a runner before you started doing this documentary?

Christine Yu (7:26)

I've been run. I, you know, have definitely been a runner all my life. I'm not a marathoner, though I will say that.

Kusha Naffadar (7:33)

But you could tell, like, you could tell there was difficulties in this route beyond just the difficulties. I mean, I think it's interesting how the trainer said running is everyone's punishment, which is a hilarious line. Did the inmates who ran it also share that attitude? Did you feel.

Christine Yu (7:49)

Absolutely not. I mean, most guys are running because in the beginning they're running mostly for health purposes. You know, I want to lose weight, I want to get in shape. But over the course of, you know, joining the club, I think what they realize is that what they're part of is a community that actually forms. This is a community of people of all races. Inside prison, it's usually a highly segregated type of environment. So it's a time to, you know, get outside many walls, so to speak, you know, and also have an opportunity to interface with free people. You know, the volunteers that go in, many men have lost. Lost. Have lost contact, you know, with family members and friends over long periods of incarceration.

Kusha Naffadar (8:43)

You know, that. That community element really stuck out to me. And I was wondering, in your experience, did you see it crossing borders? Because we talk a lot about in prisons and, and, you know, in this movie as well, how you kind of have to choose a side once you go into prison. This, this club, the 1000 Mile Club, which is what the trainers put on, did you see folks interacting with each other as. As a community outside of what those normal affiliations were in the prison culture?

Christine Yu (9:10)

Yes, I can tell you from just anecdotal experience, field research experience, these are bonds that, you know, go outside of the 90 minute workout that these guys have or the races. At the same time, there is something really unique about San Quentin as a. As a prison site. It's actually recently been in the middle of undergoing a transformation to a rehabilitation center from California governor Gavin Newsom. So it's gone from being this place, you know, notorious for violence, to a place of rehabilitation and an emphasis on programming.

Kusha Naffadar (9:55)

Is that part of the reason why the 1000 Mile Club was able to start or did that predate that kind of renovation that you're describing?

Christine Yu (10:03)

Yes, it did predate it. However, the club started in 2005 under the circumstances that California at that time was seriously overcrowded in terms of its prisons. And so the Supreme Court of the state, they mandated that the prison had to reduce its population. So at that time, they started too. Much to the prison's facility's credit, they started to open up the prison to volunteer programs, engage with the community. You know, San Quentin is literally located on San Francisco's bay, you know, in a very liberal city, really. So it opened up to the idea of community engagement, and that's had a really deep impact on the outcomes of a lot of guys who get out.

Kusha Naffadar (10:53)

Folks, if you're just joining us, we're talking to director Christine Yu about her new documentary. It's 26.2 to life. It's documentary about the San Quentin marathon, streaming now on ESPN plus. Christine, I'd love to talk about some of the characters in the story as well. Let's talk about Markel. His name is Markel Taylor, nickname the Gazelle. That's how I remembered him. It was due to his speed. He was recruited to run track for college, but he dropped out and got entangled in criminal activity. And that's kind of where. Where we. Not where we meet him, but what his story is when we meet him. What was it about Markell's story that really compelled you?

Christine Yu (11:30)

I met Markel on that very first day. I actually was inside and of course he was the guy I was told that broke all the records, you know, the fastest man of San Quentin. And he was very mild mannered, you know, very soft spoken. I sort of had no idea what to expect. But as I got into, you know, his, his story and his background, I mean, his story really speaks to the, you know, foster care to prison pipeline that exists. You know, he came from a very damaged home, abusive home. And that's, you know, his story is a common story in terms of that.

Kusha Naffadar (12:13)

We saw a part of the movie was Markel working with an attorney to reduce his sentence early for good standing. Did running the marathon play a role in that?

Christine Yu (12:26)

I think that running in general, for a lot of the guys who are members of the club, what, what it does is, you know, you one, you have to kind of remember that a lot, you know, people who end up in prison, the, you know, we can consider them society's failures, right? In many ways. And so a lot of these guys have never really had the support prior to their incarceration to, to set goals for themselves, to complete anything. So for a lot of these guys who say I, I can suddenly run five miles, I mean, that may be the biggest accomplishment up, you know, they've had up to that time and place. And so what that does is that sets off a, you know, newfound confidence. And I'm sure, as, you know, you know, with newfound confidence, you people can do anything. And so it, it sort of creates a platform for people to, you know, then say, hey, I can, I can reconnect with family members. So it creates a cycle of, you know, positive programming, pro social behaviors that impact people. You know, hopefully for, for, for release. And I, and I can say that, you know, out of the club members that have been released, well over 50 at this point, you know, there is a 0% recidivism rate.

Kusha Naffadar (13:52)

Wow. It reminds me of Tommy, another character. He's an inmate who runs the marathon. He was convict of voluntary manslaughter. Let's listen to a clip of him reflecting on his journey.

Tommy (14:05)

As soon as it happened, I knew my life was done. And that's why that I just told him, give me anything without a license. I'm guilty. And I've never been to a trial. I've always took a deal. Five times I took a deal because I'm guilty. I mean, I'm not gonna waste the state's money and sit in a county jail and just give me the deal. Came back and said, plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter. Okay, cool. That's 11 years. No, but you're a three striker. So they strike that, strike that, 11 turns into 22. Then you get five years for each prior prison term. That's 15 more and 10 for the gun and 10 for the gang. So it's a total of 46 years of enhancements on that charge. All I had to do is just keep going to work and going home. But no, I had to go over to that house I night to come up one more time. I mean, did I really win the fight that night? Did I really win to grow old and die in prison? I've been sober and gang free for 15 years now. So I'm, I'm off to a good start. My wife pushes me to believe that I'm going to be out before calendars. That's her exact words. So hopefully, honey, 2053 is my EPRD earliest possible release date day. I'll be 86 years old. If I keep running, I'll be all right. Got to stay positive.

Kusha Naffadar (15:25)

Christine. The inmates end up sharing so much about their lives to the camera. They're vulnerable and they're candid about their regrets, their mistakes, their, their future, their hopes. How did you establish that trust with them?

Christine Yu (15:39)

Well, I'll add one thing. When I was interviewing Tommy, this is just kind of a fun background production.

WNYC Host (15:46)

Yeah.

Christine Yu (15:47)

But the dp, the DP was literally sitting on Tomm.

Kusha Naffadar (15:50)

That's the director of photography you're talking about.

Christine Yu (15:52)

Yeah, yeah. And I was sitting probably right on top of him. But yeah, no, you know, much to the credit of these guys, of course, I spent a lot of time inside the prison when the cameras were not rolling. You know, you have to kind of remember that most cameras that go into the prison, you know, from news sources, news media, they're going usually in there for an hour for a few sound bites that they know that they want. But, you know, our approach essentially was to go slow, although we didn't have any choice either, I'll say. And so I think that over time it, you know, we, we develop genuine relationships with the guys in the film, with many of the members of the club that you don't see in the film as well.

Kusha Naffadar (16:45)

I found it interesting that you said you had to go slow, you had no choice. Are you talking about from like the production logistics aspect of trying to go into a prison to. Did that look like.

Christine Yu (16:56)

Yeah, you know, took about nine months initially to get, you know, even clearance to go in. But, you know, here's the thing is that they don't have to let you in. You know, it's if, you know, even when you shoot once, there is no guarantee that they're going to let you back in. So we were always very aware that you Know, this could all shut down at any given time. And so, you know, it made us extra cautious. But we went in, like I said, when the cameras weren't rolling a lot, you know, just to hang out with the guys to get to understand what, what the club really was like and, and the community that San Quentin is.

Kusha Naffadar (17:43)

Folks, if you're just joining us, we're talking about the new documentary, 26.2 to Life. It's a documentary about the San Quentin marathon run by the inmates. It's streaming now on ESPN plus. We've got the director, Christine Yu with us. I want about reintegration for a second because, you know, in Tommy's clip that we just heard a couple minutes ago, they were, he was talking about the compounding sentences. And really, you focus on these men to tell a bigger story about the carceral system. What were some of your biggest findings, some of your biggest frustrations? Something that gives you hope?

Christine Yu (18:17)

I mean, these enhancements, you know, the, the consecutive enhancements to the original sentencing, it's, you know, punitive. It's something that came out of the 90s, tough on crime, super predator era. But, you know, the data shows that basically when people, 90% of people who are in prison do eventually find their way out somehow through early release initiatives. So, however, there's a very high recidivism rate, though, at the same time. And while you have the Thousand Mile Club with the 0% recidivism rate, you know, why, why is that? You know, and I think a lot of it has to basically do with access to programs. You know, you have to give people something to do. If we really want to reduce recidivism, if we really want to try to make a dent into the incarceration system, I think we have to offer people programs. It's, you know, proven. And also there's a lot of data around the fact that people age out of crime. You know, as people get older, there's a tendency not to commit crimes. You know, you do stupid stuff when you're young. Young, right. So, you know, and that's the majority age when people commit crimes in their teens and their 20s. So, you know, I mean, I think that we have to look at building a system that addresses, you know, those life changes. Would you do the same stuff as that you did in your 20s and try to build pathways for people the, to get out and to show that they've changed? You know, and many of these guys who have had serious addiction problems, etc. You know, these are people who are very Fit to, you know, help some of society's worst problems, you know, through their own, you know, lived experiences.

Kusha Naffadar (20:11)

You know, I'd also love to get into the process for you of making this film. I mean, I wonder if gender played a role in this project at all. You were a woman filming in an all male prison. What was that like? If anything, there might be nothing to it, but did that play a role when you were actually going to produce the movie?

Christine Yu (20:31)

You know, a lot of people have brought that up. I'll add that my whole producing team, we were all women going in there. But I'll say that we never. I never felt threatened in any way. You know, usually people are very courteous to outsiders. Obviously they know that it's a privilege for people to go inside. You know, I mean, I'm a small Asian woman, so, you know, maybe in some ways, maybe that, that helped me to. You know, I don't think I have. I have a very threatening disposition. And I think people just genuinely saw that we cared, we cared to get the real story and we cared to get the nuance story.

Kusha Naffadar (21:20)

Absolutely. And you know, that, that care really comes through because for me, the film also made me think about the term chances. What do second chances mean in your life and now after having this film and looking back on it?

Christine Yu (21:36)

Well, as I was saying earlier, I think that we owe it to ourselves as a society to consider giving more people second chances. You know, I mean, as I mentioned, these are some of the very people who have been through, you know, hell and back and have learned through a lot. They've done a lot. A lot of these guys have done a tremendous amount of work on themselves, you know, internal work, trying to find root causes of violence through restorative justice practices, you know, anti anger, anti violence practices. And I think that a lot of this stuff can actually help people here out in the free world. One of the things that I hear a lot, interestingly enough, from guys who get out, you know, these are guys who have been inside sometimes for 20 or 30 years. You know, they say, man, you know, coming out, coming outside here, I am so surprised at how quick people are to get like tough and angry, you know, and you're dealing with guys who have been in prison, you know, for 20 or 30 years.

WNYC Host (22:39)

Wow.

Kusha Naffadar (22:40)

You know, and just thinking about it wrapping up here, we got maybe, you know, 20 seconds or so. I'm just interested. Do you have any thoughts on doing a marathon after producing this? Any desire to run one yourself?

Christine Yu (22:51)

We've been through a movie marathon.

Kusha Naffadar (22:55)

Fair enough. You've shed your blood, sweat in tears. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. What are you saying?

Christine Yu (23:01)

I said I'll leave it at that.

Kusha Naffadar (23:02)

You leave it at that. All right. Let's leave it at that. The documentary is called 26.2 to Life. We've been talking to director Christine Yu. It's streaming now on espn. Christine, thank you so much.

Christine Yu (23:13)

Thank you so much for having me.

WNYC Host (23:14)

I'm gonna put you on, nephew.

Christine Yu (23:16)

All right, unc. Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

WNYC Host (23:19)

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? Mr. Ridiculous? Turn to something great. Snack wrap is back.

Christine Yu (23:29)

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