How to Write, According to New York Magazine

Summary

All Of It: How to Write, According to New York Magazine

Hosted by Alison Stewart | Released on February 12, 2025

In this engaging episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, listeners delve into the art and craft of writing with Genevieve Smith, the Executive Editor of New York Magazine. The episode centers around New York Magazine's newly launched newsletter, Night School, which offers six-week courses aimed at enhancing various aspects of writing. The inaugural course, "How to Write," serves as the focal point of the discussion, providing valuable insights for aspiring writers, professionals, and anyone interested in honing their writing skills.

Introducing Night School

Alison Stewart kicks off the conversation by highlighting the launch of Night School and its first offering, "How to Write." She explains that the course is designed to cater to a broad audience, from novelists to individuals looking to craft more effective emails. Stewart emphasizes the interactive nature of the program, encouraging listeners to participate by sharing their writing challenges through calls and texts.

The Philosophy Behind Writing Well

Genevieve Smith underscores the intrinsic link between writing and thinking, stating, "To me, writing well is thinking well. It is about clarity of thought and clarity of observation" (04:22). She elaborates that writing serves as a conduit for clear communication, allowing individuals to articulate their observations and thoughts effectively. Smith emphasizes that writing is not just a skill but a mode of thinking that enhances one’s ability to perceive and interact with the world.

Common Writing Pitfalls and Solutions

When discussing common obstacles in writing, Smith identifies three primary pitfalls:

1. Lack of Clear Purpose: Many writers focus on topics without a coherent story or message. Smith advises, "You have to know what you wanna say, right? Not just the thing you're interested in, but what are you trying to tell us about that thing" (05:12).

2. Over-Editing During the Writing Process: As highlighted by a caller, excessive self-editing can hinder the flow of writing. Smith shares strategies from writers like Emily Gould and Allison Davis, who recommend separating the drafting and editing phases to maintain creativity and fluidity.

3. Navigating Social Media’s Impact on Writing: Addressing the influence of platforms like Twitter, Smith acknowledges the craftsmanship involved but cautions against the potential for shallow thinking. She remarks, "It's kind of led to a bit of shallow thinking, and you can get that one perfect sentence, but how does that sentence connect to the next sentence and the next sentence?" (07:52)

Listener Calls: Real-World Writing Challenges

The episode features several listener calls, each presenting unique writing challenges:

• Susan from Red Bank struggles with crafting witty Instagram comments. Smith advises embracing one's unique voice and using admired writing styles as inspiration without attempting to mimic them exactly (06:30).

• Barbara from Rye faces perfectionism while writing her family history, leading to slowed progress. Smith recommends adopting a diary-like approach to allow freedom in expression before refining the text (09:31).

• Robert from Atlantic Highlands questions the ethics of using AI in writing his first book. Smith acknowledges AI as a useful tool for idea generation but cautions against relying on it for original creativity, emphasizing the irreplaceable value of human ingenuity in storytelling (12:10).

• Kathy from Long Branch shares her method of overcoming writer's block through journaling, with Smith endorsing the technique and highlighting the importance of getting words onto the page without immediate concern for structure or grammar (16:18).

• Tina from Oceanport seeks advice for her teenage daughter discouraged by fears that AI will render writers obsolete. Smith passionately defends the enduring necessity of human-driven journalism and storytelling, asserting that AI cannot replicate the nuanced observation and connection inherent in genuine journalism (24:39).

Navigating Idea Generation and Story Length

Smith delves into the process of generating viable ideas, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and critical questioning. She shares insights from her writers, Lane Brown and Joy Shan, who derive inspiration from personal frustrations and persistent questions about seemingly mundane topics (15:43). Additionally, when discussing story length, Smith advises that the scope of an idea should determine its expansion, noting, "It's really a question of does your idea sustain that right if we're plotting it out and how many sections are in this and what are the big points" (23:32).

The Role of Workshops and Editing

Addressing the value of writing workshops, Smith affirms their efficacy in fostering writer development, particularly through the collaborative relationship between editors and writers. She highlights the critical role editors play in refining ideas and ensuring clarity, stating, "The relationship between editors and writers... can help you point out what's missing" (22:05).

Practical Writing Tips

Concluding the episode, Smith offers practical advice for crafting effective emails. She emphasizes clarity and the strategic placement of essential information, recommending the "inverted pyramid" structure commonly used in journalism. Smith suggests, "Put all the information up at the top. If you've got extra, that is where journalists are doing" (27:01).

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It serves as a comprehensive guide for writers at all stages, blending expert advice with real-world applications. Through insightful discussions and relatable listener interactions, Genevieve Smith provides a nuanced exploration of the writing process, the challenges writers face, and the strategies to overcome them. Whether you're penning a novel, crafting an email, or simply looking to improve your writing prowess, this episode offers valuable takeaways to enhance your literary journey.

For more insights and to participate in future Listening Parties, visit wnyc.org/events.

Transcript

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[Genevieve Smith]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Hey, we have really big news. You know, we do those all of It Listening parties where we interview musicians about their new releases, discuss their inspirations, dive into all the writing, recording and producing. Well, it's time for our next Listening Party live. Next Thursday, February 20, we are having an event downstairs in the Green space with country and Americana powerhouse duo the War and Treaty. And we want you to be there.

[Genevieve Smith]

I never had regrets till night all my plans were set I can't believe I let you walk away from me Will I spill a kiss just to let you know maybe I want you maybe I want you.

[Alison Stewart]

The husband and wife vocalists were Americana Music Awards Group of the Year winners and Grammy Best New Artist nominees. They were the first black artists nominated for Duo of the Year by the Academy of Country Music and there's even a movie about them in the works. And this week they're putting out a new album titled plus one Just in Time for Valentine's Day and we'll be catching them just a few days afterwards. Come on down for an all of It Listening party live. That's Thursday, February 20th at 7pm in the green space. Get your tickets now by going to wnyc.org events. We look forward to seeing you there. Now let's get this hour started with some writing advice. New York magazine just launched a new newsletter called Night School which delivers six week courses to readers. The first is how to Write on the last show. We hear from writers all the time. Just in the last week we talked to mystery writer Sarah Grann, music writer Ann Powers, journalist and TV writer Ira Madison, and author Victoria Christopher Murray, who shared this piece of advice for aspiring writers.

[Genevieve Smith]

Writers write. You cannot call yourself a writer if you're not writing. And if you keep treating it like a hobby, it's going to stay a hobby. So even as you don't have time go in and write and writers read.

[Alison Stewart]

The best writers are readers from the would be novelist. To someone who just wants to write a better email, this could be your answer. New York Magazine executive editor Genevieve Smith is here with me in studio today to talk about some of the upcoming lessons.

[Genevieve Smith]

Genevieve, welcome Hi, thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, are you looking to improve your writing skills? Why? 212-433-969-2212, WNYC. Maybe you're working on a personal statement for an application written, writing a letter of recommendation for someone else, or you're a writer who is dealing with the dreaded writer's block at the moment. Call us, tell us what you're facing. 2124-3396-9221-2433-WNYC. That is our number. You can call in and join us on air or you can send us a text to those numbers. I am sure a lot of your subscribers are readers themselves.

[Genevieve Smith]

I hope so.

[Alison Stewart]

People who appreciate good writing. Why is knowing how to write such. Such an important aspect?

[Genevieve Smith]

I mean, to me, writing well is thinking well. It is about clarity of thought and clarity of observation. You often hear writers say, I didn't really know what I thought about something until I tried to write it and I tried to articulate it well. So to me, it's really about seeing the world clearly, observing it well and communicating. Right. It's how we talk to each other. And it's just as important to be able to do that in writing as it is verbally.

[Alison Stewart]

When you're thinking about the common pitfalls people have with writing, what are they?

[Genevieve Smith]

Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. Well, there's so many.

[Alison Stewart]

Give me the top three. We'll go with three.

[Genevieve Smith]

A lot of times, what I see, so, you know, I should say, like, we're kind of coming from a magazine perspective. We make a magazine. And a lot of times I see, often I'll say, this is a topic and it's not a story. So people, they just see something in the world, they wanna write about it, they wanna hold onto it, but they don't really know what they're saying about it. They just are kind of pawing in the dark around a topic. So I think that to that same point, you have to know what you wanna say, right? Not just the thing you're interested in, but what are you trying to tell us about that thing? So that's a very big one. I would say, do me a favor.

[Alison Stewart]

Say your first name for me.

[Genevieve Smith]

Genevieve.

[Alison Stewart]

Genevieve.

[Genevieve Smith]

It's okay, I'll do your own.

[Alison Stewart]

Genevieve. Genevieve. Genevieve Smith is the executive editor of New York Magazine. Genevieve. The New Yorker's based courses allow New York Magazine writers and editors to play professor for a moment or two. What was the goal? Why did you start this?

[Genevieve Smith]

Gosh. Well, I think part of it is we've noticed that our subscribers really love a little peek behind the curtain. They want to see how we do the things that we do. So part of it was just to give something great to our subscribers, and we just thought we have all of these knowledge bases that we can share with them. In addition to doing how to write, we're planning to do one on photography. We have amazing photography. We're also planning to do one just on how to be a New Yorker and just all of our collective sort of service wisdom of how to navigate the city like a real New Yorker. So it's really an incentive for subscribers. The way that the newsletter works is when you subscribe, you can sign up and you'll get the first one no matter when you sign up. So it's limited edition and it starts weekly whenever you sign up for it.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a call. Susan is calling in from Red Bank, New Jersey. Hi, Susan, thanks for calling, all of it. You're on the air.

[Caller]

Oh, hi, Alison. Hi. I am calling because I frequently comment on Instagram and it takes me like 10 minutes to write two lines. I keep rereading it. It doesn't sound smart, it doesn't sound witty. So I would like a little help in that area.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. Witty, pithy comments.

[Genevieve Smith]

Yeah, but I mean, I think you're doing the right thing. I mean, a lot of what a good writer is doing is they're kind of turning up their ear to what they want to sound like. And I think you played a little clip at the beginning of a writer giving the advice that a writer is a reader. And really the first thing most writers do as they're trying to find their own voice is their mimicking the voices that they love and admire and that speak to them and are what they wanna sound like. You're never actually gonna sound like that person. Right. You could try to write like Toni Morrison. You will not sound like Toni Morrison. But trying to write like those people that you admire, that's gonna help turn up your ear and make you kind of figure out, what do I sound like? How do I want this to land? So reading and then kind of trying out the things that you read that you love is a great way to kind of get better at that.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you think social media has changed writing for the better?

[Genevieve Smith]

No. Does anybody think that?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, I'm thinking about. Well, the movie that was done based off of a Twitter thread, Zola.

[Genevieve Smith]

Oh, yes. Great movie, right? Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Those tweets were just perfectly timed.

[Genevieve Smith]

I'm just curious you know, yes, there is artistry everywhere.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, there is.

[Genevieve Smith]

So absolutely there are craftsmen of the tweet and of the Instagram comment and there. And, you know, it's not my form. I am not good at that form, but there are certainly people who are good at it. And. But I think overall, right. It's kind of led to a bit of shallow thinking, and you can get that one perfect sentence, but how does that sentence connect to the next sentence and the next sentence? And how does it build to a bigger idea and an understanding of the world? Right, right. What we're trying to do with writing was, like, illuminate the human condition in the most lofty way. We're trying to connect with each other, and sometimes it takes the cheap shot. And really, that thread is kind of a perfect example of. Part of why it was great is that it was like hundreds of tweets that really told a story put together. So she is a short story writer. Right. Even though she was using Twitter.

[Alison Stewart]

I remember when I worked for CBS Sunday Morning, and you pitched a story and the editor would go, and. Because it had to be 12 or 13 minutes long, like, what else? What else you got?

[Genevieve Smith]

Sure. Exactly. How are you? And, you know, a lot of what we talk about in the newsletter is not just sort of the craft of the writing, but how you build the story. How do you launch a story at the beginning and get somebody all the way to the end of it? And how do you have enough stuff to say, let's talk to Barbara, who's.

[Alison Stewart]

Calling in from Rye. Hi, Barbara, you're on the air.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you. I was interested in the previous comment because I've been a copy editor starting a proofreader, but really copy editing and writing. So I'm finding language when I read anything online, just tanked. Nobody uses grammar anymore. But that gets back to my issue. Currently working on a book about my. When my brother was in Vietnam, his letters to me, and my diary entries. However, whenever I start writing, I'm editing as I write. And it's almost not to make fun of, but it's an OCD type thing. It prevents me from letting it flow. So I say, oh, no, that needs a modifying hyphen over here. Oh, no, see another comma there? No. And I spend so much time editing, I get a paragraph done.

[Genevieve Smith]

Yeah, this is this. You are not alone. And I do think writers have different approaches or different feelings about this. I definitely know writers who. They cannot go on to the next sentence until they've perfected the first one. And that's completely legitimate. That's, you know, if that's, if that's how you need to be, you're just going to be a slow, careful writer and it's going to build very slowly. But I, I had a great conversation with Emily Gould and Allison Davis, two of our writers who do a lot of personal essays. And one of the things that they talked about is how do you shut off the you that walks around in the world so that you can actually just write this story without all the self criticism. So Emily in particular said she just kind of pretends like no one's ever gonna read it, that it's just exists in this little world. And then afterward, then you bring back your editor, your self critic to go and make it better. But that first time, sometimes you just have to pretend like it is a diary, pretend like it's not something for the world just so you can get it all out without perpetually standing in your own way.

[Alison Stewart]

New York magazine recently launched a new newsletter. Night School delivers six weeks courses for the writers. Go straight to your inbox. The first course is how to Write. New York executive editor Jen Genevieve Smith is here to discuss the lessons. Listeners, we want to hear about how you are trying to improve your writing schools. Maybe you're working on a personal statement for an application or you're writing a letter of recommendation for someone. Maybe you have some weird writer's block like our last caller. Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to Robert from Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey. Hi, Robert, you're on the air.

[Caller]

Hi. So I'm trying to write a book for the first time. I'm being encouraged by a friend of mine who does has written a book. And here's the thing. I write a bunch of paragraph or two and then I use AI and then AI can say so much more eloquently than I can say it. Now. I don't take it literally from AI but I carve it. I carve it to suit my needs. And then I back and forth with AI how suppose the character does this, Blah, blah, blah, on and on and on. My question to you is, if I like it, at the end of the day, am I cheating?

[Genevieve Smith]

I love that question. I guess I don't think so. You know, I think it's okay if it gets you through to the end of your story and if you're using it as a way to give you something to bounce back and forth on I do think there's a ceiling to what a story is going to be. If you're using that. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows what the future of AI is? I personally feel a lot of hesitation about that future. But I think if it's a tool that's getting you through your story and you're using it just kind of to give yourself ideas and have something to work off of, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But when you look at the apps, absolute greatest works, the works that you really admire, they're often giving you something that people haven't seen before. And AI is only ever going to give you stuff, regurgitate and remix stuff that already exists. So you're not gonna get those truly original works that way. But it might get you to the end of your book, and maybe that's what matters.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk about your three newsletters that have gone out already. The first one was Idea Generation. How do you know when you've got a good idea?

[Genevieve Smith]

Yes, I love this. I love Idea Generation as an editor. I just, you know, the best part about being an editor is you just generate all the ideas and then other people have to do it. And I brought in a couple, one of my writers, longtime writers Lane Brown and Joy Shan, who's one of our editors, who I think have very original ideas all the time to talk about where they came from and how they knew they had something good. And one of the funniest things that came out, many different, you know, read, be skeptical of what you read, ask the questions, notice and be curious and keep asking, well, what's behind that research? Talk to people. If it's a conversation that keeps coming up in various parts of your life, maybe there's something there. But one of the funniest things that Lane said is that oftentimes his ideas come from being really annoyed by something. When he just finds a bit of frustration. And he's like, why is it this way? And one example he gave was he kept going to the movie theaters and the projection screen would just be hanging off the front. It would be out of focus. It would be too dark. You couldn't even see the action. He says, what's going on? There must be. There must be some reason for this annoyance that keeps following me around. And so then he started talking to projectionists and talking to cinematographers and finding out that there had been a shift in the way the cinema was being projected and the sort of standards inside movie theaters. So it took this little bit of a noise and Then keen into that. A lot of. A lot of good writing I found in all these conversations is noticing. And that comes from the idea perspective. It comes from the reporting and listening when you're reporting, and it comes from when you're writing as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Are all ideas good?

[Genevieve Smith]

No, they are not all good. You know, some ideas don't go anywhere. You know, sometimes they're just kind of. That's it. There's nothing more to say. And it is to your point earlier, like, and what? And then what? And then what? How are you going to tell the story? Story? And is it. If you just said the idea, is that it? There's nothing else to unpack? Or is it something where I have something to follow? I have some sort of thread that I can set up at the beginning of the story and I can follow it all the way to the end.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Kathy from Long Branch. Hi, Kathy, thanks for calling, all of it.

[Caller]

Hello. I'm glad I got a hold of you. I usually get a busy signal anyway. I am a writer. I've been writing stories all my life, poems all my life, and, you know, letters to the editor, all those kinds of things. And I'm working on a family history. I do genealogy and I'm working on the family history, writing all those stories. And I found a long time ago for that gal who has writer's block as she's writing. I used to. I started journaling and I didn't care whether I had a verb in there or, you know, the subject was where the object would be, just whatever was in my brain at the time. Excuse me. And that actually helped my writer's block because I used to do the same thing. And it just. It just really helps to just write it down, whether it makes sense or not, and just go after it later.

[Alison Stewart]

How about for you? Do you tell people to journal their ideas ever?

[Genevieve Smith]

Sure. I mean, I do think, you know, one of Alison Davis was telling me that she actually sleeps with her laptop in her bed so that in the morning when her brain is just kind of mushy still, she can just get up and all the first thoughts she has, she can just start writing them down.

[Alison Stewart]

That's interesting.

[Genevieve Smith]

I know, it's a funny. A funny habit. But yeah, I do think sometimes you just have to get it going. You gotta get the words out there, however you can.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Genevieve Smith. How to Write According to New York Magazine. It's their latest newsletter, Night School. We'll have more after a quick break.

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[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. New York Magazine recently launched a new newsletter, Night School, that delivers six week courses from their writers to your inbox. The first course is how to Write, and New York Executive editor Genevieve Smith is here to take your calls. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. W, N Y C. We want to hear from our writers out there. We got a text that says, having published a memoir and later a poetry book, but first you have to find time for your external voice. For me, this was an emotional process.

[Genevieve Smith]

That's an interesting comment. I think a lot of writers struggle to figure out what do they want to sound like and, you know, how do they want to present on the page, who is this character? That's me on the page. Because it's never exactly you. Right. There's always a contrived thing that you're creating that is your narrator or is the person telling the story on the page. And you can kind of pick and cultivate what that sounds like. I talked with Kerry Howley recently, who is, I think, really excellent at that voice and creating almost, you know, a mood and a character on the page. And she can really change it. It can be kind of curious and almost like faux naive. It can be serious and gothic and authoritative. And it kind of depends on her subject and what it feels like the piece calls for.

[Alison Stewart]

In one of your newsletters, you focus on finding the truth, which is really big in journalistic writing. And you feature, you feature your writer, Lila Shapiro.

[Genevieve Smith]

Yep.

[Alison Stewart]

And she wrote about Neil Gaiman.

[Genevieve Smith]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How was she able to leverage her connections within the publishing world to gain clarity on the Neil Gaiman allegations?

[Genevieve Smith]

So, you know, that was such a huge story. There had been a little bit. There had been a podcast that had brought forward a few of the allegations, but there was so much that was still out there. And when you have something that's a little bit of rumor, a little bit of speculation, a little bit of gray area, and you have a powerful person, the first thing the reporter has to do, and Lila talked about doing is, how do I find my way into this story? Lila had a background in writing about the publishing world and the book world and fantasy Authors in particular. So she was able to find her way in by starting with those folks that she knew. And even if Those folks are 10 steps away from your main subject, you have somebody that you have trust with that's gonna get you a little bit closer and a little bit closer until you're able to kind of zero in on the center of the story.

[Alison Stewart]

When you're doing something like that, you really have to get people to believe in what you're doing to tell them when you're reporting to them. How do you do that?

[Genevieve Smith]

Oh, man. Well, I mean, we're fortunate in that we've been a publication for over 50 years and we've built up a lot of trust. Folks know us and they know that we have a robust fact checking department. They know that, you know, we stand on our reputation. So that is very helpful. When you're new, it's a lot harder to build that trust. And it's oftentimes why, you know, journalists, they're not coming for the king the first time they leave journalism school. Right. They're building up that trust in their beat in the same way. And oftentimes with smaller stories before they hit those big stories.

[Alison Stewart]

This text says, my wife took up creative writing during the pandemic and has been hooked ever since. A major shout out to the New York Public Library's writing workshops, which were her starting point. Do you believe in workshops?

[Genevieve Smith]

Sure. I believe in anything that helps you and gets you to do it. You know, I really believe in the relationship between editors and writers. And what that really is is an outside person who you really trust, who can hold the piece, help you think through what the big idea of the piece is and be constructively critical of it. Right. Can help you point out what's missing. And oftentimes when I'm working with a story and I'm editing a story, the first thing I'm doing is just asking a thousand questions of the draft.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, interesting.

[Genevieve Smith]

What is missing? What am I confused about? Where do I not know what's happening? Before even we think about structure and character, it's just like, okay, do we actually have the full picture here?

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Angelina calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Angelina.

[Caller]

Hi. And hi, Genevieve. I'm one of your writers at New York Magazine, Angie. I heard you on the radio and thought, I've got some questions for her and it's been a while. My. What I want to hear about is how can writers decide what length a story should be? And do you think that they should decide ahead of Time. Is this a feature, is this a book, is this a short film story? You know, how can we sort of, how do you think about what length something should be and at what stage in the process do you decide?

[Genevieve Smith]

So funny. I feel, I feel duped. But, you know, writers always, not always, but often want to write longer and bigger. And it's really a question of does your, can your idea sustain that right if we're plotting it out and how many sections are in this and what are the big points and how much time do we need? You know, that that kind of helps determine the length. I personally, for anyone who is pitching magazines, I really don't like it when somebody says this is how long my story is in their pitch. I believe that is actually one of the things I get to decide as the editor is how long it should be. But it really is like, you know, how many, how many scenes do you have, how many characters, how you know a story that's five or six thousand words, it's going to have. It needs to have two or three kind of big moments or big ideas. If it's 2,000, you can kind of just have one. So a lot of it is, you know, do you have the juice to sustain something at a longer length and keep the reader interested?

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Tina calling in from Oceanport, New Jersey. Hi, Tina, thanks so much.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you? I have a little bit of a different question. I have a 14 year old who is an incredible writer and she was involved in a program and really enjoyed it, but writing is not really celebrated in school. And when she tells people that she wants to be a writer, they tell her that AI is going to take over and there's not going to be a need for writers in the future. So I find that a lot of things that she writes, she doesn't finish. She's not writing nearly as much as she used to. And I just didn't know if you had any advice to keep her spirits up and to keep her inspired to keep writing. She wants to help people and maybe be a journalist. I mean, I just don't know what to tell her anymore.

[Genevieve Smith]

I love this question and I am so. I'm just like, I want to cry. It's just heartbreaking to me. I really, really don't think that AI can come for good journalism. I don't. Because good journalism is going into the world and it's talking to people and it's observing the world and no AI can ever do that. They can fake it. And the fear and the danger we have is that they fake it really well and people don't know the difference. But absolutely, there will be even a greater need for her to go out there and tell stories about the world. And I do think if she is interested in journalism, it is a great way to kind of help push that passion. I hope her school has a newspaper. I know that there are some programs in New York for young aspiring journalists and I hope she can seek those out. But, you know, and it can still be creative. She could push her to be creative. She does. It's not just the facts. It is still storytelling. It is still. It's describing your world and telling people about it. And that's absolutely gonna just be even more important.

[Alison Stewart]

And read good writers. Lawrence wright, Mark Bowden.

[Genevieve Smith]

100%.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, before we have to end, I have to ask you, what does an email have to have? We've talked about poetry, we've talked about journaling. What do you need to do to write a good email?

[Genevieve Smith]

Well, there's so many different kinds of emails. Do you have a specific, like kind of email that you're talking about?

[Alison Stewart]

I'm writing in to check to make sure that someone is coming to the show and has all the information. What do I need to put on there?

[Genevieve Smith]

Just clarity. Put all the information up at the top. Right. If you've got extra. That is where journalists are doing.

[Alison Stewart]

I hope you're doing well.

[Genevieve Smith]

Yeah, I mean, fine if it's short. Right. But you just want to front load it. Front load it with the important. That's when the inverted pyramid, the journalism structure is very important. Just put it at the top. What you most need them to see. You know, sometimes even a little bolding is not a bad thing if you want to make sure they really see it. Because people are. They're not. They're not close readers anymore.

[Alison Stewart]

Janhv Smith is New York Magazine's executive editor. You should check out their new newsletter. Nice school. Thanks a lot.

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