Investigating How People Make the Decision to Have Kids, Or Not

Summary

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All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)

Episode Summary: Investigating How People Make the Decision to Have Kids, Or Not

Date: March 10, 2026
Guest: Jen Ortiz – Deputy Editor at The Cut

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the personal, societal, and political complexities surrounding the decision to have children—or not. Host Alison Stewart speaks with Jen Ortiz, deputy editor at The Cut, about their new essay series “Oh Baby,” which highlights the spectrum of experiences, regrets, and motivations behind becoming or not becoming a parent. Listeners join in with raw, candid stories, adding nuance to this universal, yet often unspoken, decision-making process.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Premise of “Oh Baby”

• Goal of the Series: To showcase the diverse, often contradictory factors people weigh when considering parenthood, including finances, career, relationships, culture, and personal desires.
• Timeliness: Though evergreen, the current climate—marked by political uncertainty and societal shifts—makes the discussion especially resonant now.
  • “People are always making this decision. But, you know, the world is especially scary right now.” — Jen Ortiz (06:03)

Topics Often Overlooked in Parenting Conversations

• Regret: A taboo subject, rarely discussed publicly.
  • The series features women acknowledging grief for their pre-motherhood selves alongside fierce love for their children.
    • “It’s not a question of whether or not they love their kid... but how they just feel about themselves and…the version of themselves that they were before motherhood.” — Jen Ortiz (08:05)
• Single Motherhood by Choice: The process, preparations, and emotional labor involved in solo parenting.

Identity and Motherhood

• Loss of Former Identity: For many parents, especially mothers, parental responsibilities subsume other aspects of identity.
  • “You can’t sort of divide your identity from parenthood... this is who I am.” — Jen Ortiz (09:11)

Decision-Making Factors

• Financial & Structural Concerns: Cost, lack of support, and the immense logistical burden weigh heavily.
• Changing Relationships & Support Networks: Shifting norms, fewer support systems, and the myth of “it takes a village.”
  • “There is no village. There’s just you.” — Nima Patel (Caller, 11:10)

Regret, Happiness, and Honest Conversations

• Space for Honesty: Online forums like Reddit provide judgment-free zones for parents to discuss conflicting feelings about parenthood, regret, or ambivalence.
  • “The more you talk about it, the less scary it is to bring up and the more you realize you’re part of a community…” — Jen Ortiz (19:40)

Societal & Political Backdrop

• Impact of Roe v. Wade Overturning: The new landscape of reproductive rights has heightened anxieties, especially in states with restricted access.
  • “If you live in a state where abortion care is not accessible, then…pregnancy care in a sense is not accessible either.” — Jen Ortiz (17:41)
• Media & Representation: How stories and depictions in entertainment empower women to imagine life without children as a legitimate choice.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

On the Weight of the Decision

• “You’re judged for every decision that you make when it comes to your child... it’s scary to worry how others might see you or perceive you as a parent if you complain about anything or if you, you know, maybe doubt something.” — Jen Ortiz (19:40)
• "Any choice that you make is going to give you some benefits and great stuff and some things you're not going to get to do." — Amy from Montclair (23:39)
• "I just always thought it was such BS because I could imagine the hell out of my life without my children. I love my children...but I can absolutely imagine the sliding doors version." — Jessica from Brooklyn Heights (18:41)
• "My body didn’t belong to her, her time didn’t belong to her, her attention and her interest, nothing belonged to her anymore..." — Hillary from Upper East Side recounting her sister-in-law's experience (24:55)

On Social Structure, Support and Gendered Expectations

• "If you do not have [a maternal instinct], I don't see why anyone would just do it for the sake of competition." — Nima Patel, New Jersey (11:10)
• "There is no village. There’s just you...very little support." — Nima Patel (11:10)
• "I’m a surgeon...and you can do it. Yes, you need good, reliable help." — Deborah from West Orange, NJ (13:21)
• “For women, we…think about our bodies, we think about our future because we get our periods or we don’t get them, whatever it might be… For men, it’s never part of the conversation.” — Alex from Philly (28:03)

On Regret and Identity

• "There’s a sort of grief…for the version of themselves that they were before they had children.” — Jen Ortiz (08:05)
• “It’s neither first nor second. It’s just sort of like, this is who I am.” — Jen Ortiz, on identity and parenthood (09:11)

On Societal Pressures and Changing Minds

• "Not having children and staying in New York City… have been the major reasons all my adult relationships have ended. Still, no regrets." — Text message from listener (20:38)
• "One person really wants a kid and the other one doesn’t…there’s no kind of middle ground there." — Jen Ortiz (21:46)

On Global & Political Concerns

• “Are you as concerned about the declining health of the planet, of the end of democracy, of so many other things that…will continue to impact us for years to come?” — Jen Ortiz (26:42)

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Listener Stories – A Snapshot

[11:10] Nima Patel: Had child at 45; highlights loss of “village,” lack of support, the immense emotional and financial load; people shouldn't do it just because it's expected.
[13:21] Deborah: Surgeon with three successful children; says it's a big commitment but possible with good help.
[14:03] Carl: Unplanned parent to nephew on autism spectrum; administrative challenges and the impact on his health.
[22:54] Nancy: Chose not to have kids due to her and her husband’s careers as musicians; remains content with decision.
[23:39] Amy: Emphasizes that both choices (having kids or not) require compromise; neither is a “perfect” path.
[24:55] Hillary: Sister-in-law’s postpartum experience influenced her own decision to remain childless.
[28:02] Alex: Never wanted biological kids but open to family; discusses gender differences in how future/parenthood is socialized.

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Community, Honesty, and Unresolved Feelings

• The online “community effect”: Safe spaces like Reddit or niche blogs are crucial for parents (and nonparents) to confide the complexities, regrets, and joys of their decisions without fear of judgment (19:40).
• Changing narratives: More people are open about regret, not just joy, enabling a broader understanding of what parenthood really means.
• No one right answer: The series and call-ins both reinforce that every family and individual must navigate their own balance between gain and loss. As Amy from Montclair says, “There’s Always going to be something that balances out… you’re going to lose something and gain something.” (23:39)

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Conclusion – Takeaways from the Series

• Decision Complexity: There’s rarely a clear or easy pathway—choices about children are deeply personal and shaped by social, political, and economic realities.
• Societal Shift: It’s becoming more acceptable—and vital—to talk honestly about regret, indecision, societal pressure, and fulfillment.
• Personal Tools: From self-help workbooks to candid peer forums, people are searching for ways to process and accept their decisions.
• Ultimate Message: Parenthood (or not) is a life-altering choice, and no single answer or approach fits all. The more we talk about it, the more we understand each other.

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Selected Timestamps

• [05:30] – Purpose and formation of “Oh Baby” series
• [08:05] – Discussion of maternal regret and loss of previous self
• [11:10] – Listener Nima on support systems and the reality of motherhood
• [14:03] – Listener Carl on unplanned parenthood and its challenges
• [17:41] – Impact of reproductive rights/politics on parenting decisions
• [18:41] – Jessica on generational norms and imagining life without kids
• [20:38] – Listener texts on both ends of the spectrum: fulfillment and contentment as a mother or by being childfree
• [22:54] – Nancy, lifelong decision to not have children
• [24:55] – Hillary’s family experience influencing her own decision
• [26:42] – Conversation about climate, the future, and bringing children into the world
• [28:02] – Alex on gender, family pressures, and socialization around parenthood
• [31:09] – Jen Ortiz reflects on series and her own learnings

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For more, check out The Cut’s “Oh Baby” series for the full essays and further stories discussed on the episode.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Jen Ortiz]

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[Jen Ortiz]

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[Alison Stewart]

This is hey all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you so much for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. Before we get started with the show, I want to tell you that our extremely popular Broadway on the Radio series will return in two weeks. What is Broadway on the Radio, you ask? That's when we invite the cast and creative team behind some of Broadway's hottest musicals into the green space for an hour of live radio that is full of performances and we broadcast it in front of a live audience that could include you. Our next event is happening on Thursday, March 19th at noon and it is a star studded revival about a Cold War love triangle. Chess the musical

[Jen Ortiz]

Time Flies doesn't seem a minute since the Tyrolean spy had the chess boys in it all changed.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Don't you know that when you play

[Jen Ortiz]

at this level it's no ordinary Then it's Iceland or the Philippines or Hastings

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

or this place one night in Bangkok and the world's yourster. The bars are temples but the pros ain't free. You'll find a God in every golden royster and if you're lucky then the Kanza she.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll have the show's three stars, Arian Teviot, Nicholas Christopher and Lea Michele, all here at WNYC performing live. Go to wnyc.org chess to get more information and to buy your tickets. Now, if you can't make it to this event in person, don't worry. You can always tune in for free live on the radio or via our live stream on YouTube. Again, that's wnyc.org/ there will be more announcements to come, so stay tuned. That's in the future. Now let's get this hour started. For many people, the decision to have children can feel complicated. Birth rates in the US have been declining for years as people wait longer to have kids or decide not to have them at all. And there is a a huge range for that reason. Of course, there's the financial aspect of it. For others, it's about their career. There's a big fear that having a child can slow down your professional trajectory. And then there's the cultural conversation about motherhood. People are talking more openly about the hard parts of parenting, the exhaustion, the cost, the strain on relationships. How do prospective parents navigate all of it? The CUT has been exploring that in a question in a new series called oh Baby. The essays feature women at different stages of the decision, from people who regret having children, from people who become single mothers by choice, and others who feel paralyzed by how much information they have about the risks. Joining me now to talk about the series is Jen Ortiz. She's deputy editor at the Cut. Jen, welcome to all of it.

[Jen Ortiz]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Hey, listeners, we'd like to get you in on this conversation. What went into your decision about whether to or whether not to have children? Was it financial? Financial, political, personal? You can call us. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433, WNYC. And if you prefer, you can remain anonymous, you can also text us at that number as well. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC call or text with the oh Baby series. Jen, what was the questions that you were setting out to answer?

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. We wanted to hear from people who are in the middle of making that decision. Right. And what are the factors that they're considering both on their own and with their partner and in terms of their career and other caregiving responsibilities they have? How do you make that decision to have a family, to grow your family when there is so much else to consider both, you know, as just a human in the world, but then also in your relationship and your career and all of that.

[Alison Stewart]

Was there any reason you did it right now? Particularly right now?

[Jen Ortiz]

Well, it actually, it came up in an ideas meeting we had at the beginning of the year. As a staff, we. We do a big brainstorm at the top of each year, and we do these theme weeks every month. And this came up as something that was in a lot of folks's conversations and group chats at the moment. And I think, yeah, it's sort of. It's a little evergreen in that it's kind of always in the ether. People are always making this decision. But, you know, the world is especially scary right now. It's especially hard right now. And I think this conversation is being had a lot within that context with people. And, yeah, it just felt right to sort of tackle it this month.

[Alison Stewart]

As you said, it's sort of been in the conversation for a long time. Was there any part of the conversation about parenting that you thought was overlooked

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

that people hadn't dug into quite as much as they had in the past?

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. I think the question of regret felt like something that, you know, it's a little taboo. Right. So it's a little harder to talk about. And so maybe those conversations aren't had as much. That question isn't asked as much, perhaps. So that was something we knew early on that we were interested in tackling as a question. And then something else that came up sort of in the process of assigning and talking with writers was, you know, as sort of not opposite of that, but on another, you know, on the sort of flip side of that was the decision women are making to be single mothers by choice and what that looks like. And how do you come to that decision and, you know, how do you take the steps in career, home life to make that choice? So, yeah, these were questions that felt. Not that they hadn't been asked before, but they hadn't been asked in a way that we were interested in trying to answer.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Well, let's go into regret. People talk openly about it with you. Some mothers get really into it how they thought that they would be happier if they hadn't had kids. When they say happier, what did they mean?

[Jen Ortiz]

I think there's a sort of grief a lot of the women expressed in this particular story, which was written by one of our staff writers, Bindu, for the version of themselves that they were before they had children. And I think thinking about what could have been and the what ifs imagining that the hard parts of being a parent just wouldn't be a factor in their daily lives right now. I think that that is what they mean by happier. And, you know, I think it's worth pointing out that I believe all of the women who were interviewed, you know, love their children and they say as much. And it's not a question of whether or not they love their kid or love their kids enough, but sort of how they just feel about themselves and, and the version of themselves that they were before motherhood and parenthood and that version that they can't necessarily get back because what's done is done.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm wondering how much of that has to do with their identity. Are they now mothers first? When you describe themselves to people, describe themselves to people.

[Jen Ortiz]

Right.

[Alison Stewart]

What is the feeling about motherhood for the women who said that they might have regret?

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. I mean, I think it's that it's, it is to a certain degree. Yes. You're a mother first in that the responsibilities that you have as a parent have to, because of necessity, often triumph, you know, whatever, whatever else is going on. Right. If your kid is sick and the school is calling you to come pick them up, it doesn't really matter how important that 3 o' clock meeting is that you have kind of no choice but to go do that. Unless, you know, of course, if you're blessed with childcare, that can take care of that. Sure. But you're still, even in that scenario, there's still the emotional labor of organizing that care and, you know, worrying about your sick child and, you know, you're not, you're not Suddenly gonna be 100% present that afternoon at work that you might have been if that hadn't happened. And so I think that, yeah, it's not. You can't sort of divide your identity from parenthood, whether you're a mother or a father or, you know, a parent generally. Yeah. So I think it's neither first nor second. It's just sort of like, this is who I am.

[Alison Stewart]

Now we're talking about the big life altering decision many people face, whether or not to have children. A new series from New York magazine called oh Baby explores how you come to that decision and how you feel about it later. My guest is Jen Ortiz, deputy editor of the Cut, who helped put together the whole series. We wanna hear from you what went into your decision about whether or not to have children. Did you always know you wanted to be a parent? Did you change your mind?

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Why?

[Alison Stewart]

212-4339-692221-24433. WNYC. That's our phone number. Are you still struggling to navigate it with your partner? Give us a call. You, of course, you can remain anonymous if you like. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC, we have a call on line two. This is Mina calling in from New Jersey. Mina, thanks for taking the time to call all of it.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hello everyone, this is Nima Patel speaking. I ended up having a baby at 45. I always knew I kind of wanted to be a mother. But for people, I would highly recommend you really think it over if you really want to be a mother or not. Not everyone has that maternalistic like the, you know, the guest said. So if you do not have it, you know, I don't see why anyone would just do it for the sake of competition. This is definitely motherhood is a lot of work. Just like the guest said, it takes a village to raise a kid. But in this day and age, there is no village. There's just you. And unfortunately you have to pay through the nose to get childcare and there's not much help. Even even though I'm very close to my neighbors and even though we have kids in the neighborhood, everyone just seems to be fairly busy where that support system just does not exist. Same in society. I find, like even people otherwise who may not be my neighbors, it's very hard to find that support for people who are, say, immigrants or who have been there for a long time. Even everyone just seems super busy in their own lives with very little support. So if you're going to have a baby, definitely takes a lot of work. I don't know how single moms do it, but me, but you know, I was pretty sure I needed someone else to help me take care of the baby and hence I ended up waiting this long. But having a baby by yourself is a major decision and I would definitely think this over because it's a lot harder than I thought it was. Maybe it's because of my age, but this is definitely a lot more work and like the guest said, very little choice in terms of like your emotional investment, your physical investment, your financial investment, and it incurs all of those when you have a baby.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Thank you so much for calling. Let's talk to Deborah in West Orange, New Jersey. Hi, Deborah, thanks for making the time

[Alison Stewart]

to call all of it.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

You're on the air.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

So, hi. I happen to be a surgeon and I raised three kids who are now professionals. One's a dentist, one's a cardiologist, and one's a writer. And you can do it.

Yes.

What the caller ahead of us said you definitely need good, reliable help,

but

it can very successfully be done. And I don't think it's, it's any different than any other commitment you make in your life.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Thank you for calling in. Let's talk to Carl online for who's calling us from Miami. Hi, Carl.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hi, Allison. Yeah, I just wanted to just say that it's just hard to be a parent when you didn't plan on being a parent. And I'm kind of in that situation and I'm taking care of my nephew. He's on a spectrum, so that's an added difficulty. And I don't know, I guess I've just had to come to terms with it. But I mean, I didn't even think about it until, like, the years just kept passing, you know, like, oh, I'm a parent.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

What's been the hardest part for you, Carl?

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Just, well, just dealing with all that administrative stuff because dealing with the caseworkers and school, changing schools, finding the right teachers, and I have to take care of my mother as well. So, you know, and trying to take care of myself as well because my health has slightly declined because I just forgot to take care of myself.

[Alison Stewart]

Carl, we wish you the best. So, Jen, out of all those calls, is there anything you wanted to respond to? Anything you reacted to?

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. I think the, from the first caller, the idea of really thinking it through. Of course, yes, that, that is the subject of one of the stories we ran about a sort of cult classic book called the Baby Decision that came out in 1981 by MerleBombardieri and Sanjana, the writer of the piece. Both, you know, sort of profiled the, the author a bit, but also explored why the book is so popular. And it is sort of a, you know, kind of a self help slash workbook that helps parents make this decision. And it's sort of like kind of caught fire with millennials who are thinking about entering parenthood and having a baby. And it really is one of those things where it walks you through different scenarios, imagining the kid that you could have at every age and how that would feel, imagining the person you would be, you know, five, 10, 15 years from now if you didn't have kids. And so I think that that is certainly something that people are really thinking about when they're making this decision, is really thinking through, you know, not just do I want this right now, but what will it look like now, later, in the future? What will I look like then? So yes, I agree, really think through the decision.

[Alison Stewart]

We're talking about the big life altering decision to have children. A new series from New York magazine called oh Baby explores that decision to become a parent. Some regret it, some feel great about the decision. My guest is Jen Ortiz, deputy editor of the Cut, who helped put the whole series together. Listeners, we want to get in you in on this conversation. What went into your decision about whether or not to have children? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433, WNYC. After the break, we'll have more of your text and your call. Stay with us. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're discussing what went into your decision about whether or not to have children. Our guest is Jen Ortiz, deputy editor of the Cut, who helped put together a series called oh Baby, which explores this. I wanted to talk about the political backdrop briefly. Since the overTurning of Roe vs. Weighed in 2022, access to abortion and reproductive health care varies widely across this country. How much is that shaping the way women think about pregnancy and motherhood?

[Jen Ortiz]

I think it's shaping it hugely. I think, you know, if you live in a state where abortion care is not accessible, then, you know, pregnancy care in a sense is not accessible either. Right. Like they go, they go hand in hand. And to ensure that you are going to be taken care, you have to know that you're in a place where you can get the full spectrum of care that is part of prenatal care. So, yeah, I think that that is a major decision. It's something that one of our staff writers, Andrea Gonzalez Ramirez, talks about in her essay maybe knowing too much about motherhood ruined Me. And it's certainly a factor for a lot of, for a lot of people who are in states where, you know, that's not a guarantee.

[Alison Stewart]

Our phone lines are blowing up. Let's get some more. Jessica's calling in from Brooklyn Heights. Hi, Jessica, you are on the air.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hi. I just wanted to say I think there are a lot of Gen X women who may have been on the fence, but it just didn't occur to us that we could not have children, that we could opt out. And I think there's a lot of writing about it and entertainment television shows depicting it. And I think it's really healthy because I feel like I had a lot of peer group people who would say things like, oh, I Just, I couldn't imagine my life without my children. And I, I just always thought it was such BS because I could imagine the hell out of my life without my children. I love my children, which I look at me having to qualify this, but I just, I can absolutely imagine the sliding doors version and I, I just apprec people being more honest about that.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Thank you so much for calling in. Yeah, there are several communities on Reddit, especially where people talk about this quite openly. Why are those spaces so important for people to be able to say I love my kids?

[Jen Ortiz]

But, sure, but, yeah, but, but, but. Well, I think that all parents face a lot of judgment, right? You're judged for every decision that you make when it comes to your child. And I think it's scary to be that honest and it's scary to worry how others might see you or perceive you as a parent if you complain about anything or if you, you know, maybe doubt something. And so I think a space like Reddit, which is anonymous and allows people to kind of have the protection of, or the comfort really of being behind a screen, allows folks to talk more openly about that sort of thing. But you know, as the, the caller is sort of intimating there, the more you talk about it, the less scary it is to bring it up and the more you realize you're part of a community than you are just sort of alone on an island feeling that way.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Let me read a couple of texts. This says I was ambivalent about having kids, but then I had my daughter when I was 35. For years, some as a single mom, I never felt I brought 100% anywhere. Motherhood, work, friends. I was lucky to have a supportive community of moms where we all helped each other. My daughter will be 30 this year and hands down the best decision of my life was to bring her into it. That's from Janice from upstate. This says I'm 35 years old and I knew from a young age I never wanted to be a mom. In my early 20s, I saw how that became an issue in relationships. I had several serious long term relationships and because of my decision, I made my stance very clear very early on and, and my exes all thought I'd change my mind. Not having children and staying in New York City long term have been the major reasons all my adult relationships have ended. Still, no regrets. That was an interesting part of this series where people changed their minds. Tell us a little bit more about the people who decided to change their minds and how their partners reacted.

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. Yeah. One of our Senior writers Angelina Chafin talked to a number of women for her story who were in relationships with men and had been very clear about their stance of not wanting to have children and found that in common, at least in the beginning, with the men that they were seeing. And over time, those men change their minds. And, you know, it's a really hard, you know, kind of bump in a relationship to really be able to climb over together. If one person really wants a kid and the other one doesn't, there's no kind of middle ground there. And so, yeah, it was. It's this. The story talks to a number of women who, their relationship ended because of that, because they couldn't agree to stick with, you know, the plan, so to speak, that they agreed on at the start of their relationship. And that, that's a, that's a tough one. I don't know that there's, you know, every, for every situation, there's sort of a different answer for what, you know, what the couple decides to do or what feels right for them.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Let's talk to Nancy in Queens.

[Alison Stewart]

Nancy, thanks for making the time to call all of it. You're on the air.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hi.

I am now 75 years old. However, my. When I was young, I was married, happily married, and we talked about having children, but I never wanted children because we were both musicians. And I couldn't see how it was hard enough for us to survive, to try to be responsible for someone else. So we never had children. And I am really happy because when I look at all my friends with kids, they have so many problems and grandkids who have so many problems. Anyway, that's my story.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, Nancy, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Amy, who's calling from Montclair, New Jersey. Hi, Amy, you're on the air.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Oh, wow. Hi. I just wanted to say that what I said to the screener was about, I guess every choice is about compromise and compensation, you know, in life. And I feel like things get set up like, well, if I, if I have a kid, then I'm never going to do X. Or if I don't have a. If I have a kid, I'm never going to do X. If I don't have a kid, I'm never going to get to do. Any choice that you make is going to give you some benefits and great stuff and some things you're not going to get to do. You know, I just think that all. I think sort of just as adults, one just needs to understand that whatever choice you make, there's Always going to be something that balances out, that's going to need to be balanced out, you know, and not you can make a choice. It doesn't if you choose to have a kid or you choose not to have a kid, either of those choices is going to give you. You're going to lose something and gain something. You know what I mean?

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

So I just feel like it doesn't have to be this sort of all or nothing feeling even going into it.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Thanks for calling. Let's talk to Hillary from the Upper east side.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi, Hillary, thank you so much for

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

calling all of it.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hi, Dave, thank you so much. I'm a big fan. A story I wanted to share was my sister in law after having her second baby. I came into the room while she

was pumping and she was just exposed

and weeping to herself that nothing belonged to her anymore. Her body didn't belong to her, her time didn't belong to her, her attention and her interest, nothing belonged to her anymore. And I know that that's part of her postpartum journey, but that was one of the deciding factors that I am and will continue to be childless at 36. So.

[Alison Stewart]

Hilary, thanks for the call.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Did you want to respond to anything?

[Jen Ortiz]

Sure. I think the idea of balance is sort of a tricky one. You know, one of the sources regret piece entered motherhood with assurances from her husband, from her mother about the help that she would receive and the way that they would balance out the responsibilities. And she was in a place, at least you know, at the time that she was interviewed where she didn't feel like she was getting all of the support that she needed and she was shouldering more than she expected to emotionally, physically, mentally. So the, the balance isn't necessarily guaranteed and is part of what factors into the both the decision making but also the really complicated feelings after the fact, after the decision has been made.

[Alison Stewart]

Throughout the series, I noticed it comes up in conversations a lot like, should I bring my kid into the world now? Yes, it's pretty bleak climate war. What did parents say to you about bringing kids into the world in 20, 26, 27, 28, hopefully we'll get to 29.

[Jen Ortiz]

Yeah, I mean, I think it is, it is really scary. I think often parents sort of feel a little bit of judgment in that sense of feeling like, well, how could you bring a kid into this world and feeling sort of defensive about that decision? And I think, you know, I think there's a different reason for everyone of why making the choice now. I think kids sort of bring A lot of hope to a person into a family and is sort of a. It's sort of the most hopeful decision you could make because you're. You're thinking really ahead into the future and that there is a future to think about. But, yeah, I think. I think it's also a big factor in why a lot of people are deciding not to have a child. I think. I don't know, for those who are really concerned about the declining birth rate, it's like, well, are you as concerned about the declining health of the planet, of the end of democracy, of so many other things that would impact. That are impacting us now and will continue to impact us for years to come? If we can make things better, if we can solve the affordability crisis, maybe the decision won't be as hard for some folks to make.

[Alison Stewart]

And I think we take one final call. Let's talk to Alex, who's calling in from Philly. Alex, you're on the air.

[Caller or Guest (various callers)]

Hi.

This is a really interesting topic. So a little backstory. I've known since I was very little that I never wanted to have physical children, like physically have children. But I love kids. I would love to have a family. Give me a starting five lineup. That's my way to go. I ended up marrying someone just this past summer who grew up in a very Catholic household, and his mom is very Catholic. And I know that that's been a discussion with their family and between me and them as well, but they've all been very supportive with, you know, my not necessarily wanting to have kids. However, it has brought up the conversation about how men are entirely not socialized to think about how their bodies are going to function moving forward and what it means to actually be a parent for them. Every date I went on in college, if a man asked me if I wanted to have kids and I said I didn't, he'd ask, what's wrong with me? Do I have cancer? Am I physically ill? And I'd say, no, I just, you know, I'd rather be who I am and bring those kids in when they need me. You know, that kind of thing. And for women, we month to month to month, we think about our bodies, we think about our future because we get our periods or we don't get them, whatever it might be. But we think about that every single month. We talk to each other. Oh, I'm cramping today. Can you hand me a tampon? Whatever it is for men, they don't think about that. It's never part of the conversation. When they grow up, it's never part of the conversation. When they're teenagers, the only time they're interacting with female bodies or like their own future is when there's like an accident, you know, the condom broke, whatever it is. So I just really feel like socializing men at a very young age to think about their own future outside of themselves is so important. We women are taught to do that, but men just don't seem to have ever been had that conversation or have ever been introduced to it. So that's just sort of my two cents. Luckily I found someone who's very supportive of me, but it has taken time to get there and it's been very eye opening, I think, for him and the family as well.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Alex, thank you for the thoughtful comment.

[Alison Stewart]

As we wrap up after working on this series, did anything surprise you about

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

the way people thought about children, your own thoughts about children?

[Jen Ortiz]

I don't know that anything necessarily surprised me. I think the sort of methods in which folks are finding the answer for themselves was really fascinating. Whether you're using a workbook or you're turning to Reddit for some really candid advice and stories from other people who have been in a similar place as you. I think those, those are the parts of those stories that really sort of caught my eye in terms of terms of my own baby decision. I've, I've made that one for myself already and this maybe reaffirmed how I feel about certain things. You know, I, I felt very seen by Andrea's essay about, you know, has knowing too much about motherhood ruined me? I certainly know a lot and I think it's helped me make my decision that I'm very comfortable with, much to my mother's disappointment. But yeah, I think if anything is most surprising, it's just that it's how hard the decision is for some folks and how sort of gut wrenching and complicated it can be whether you're in a relationship or not, to come to that decision.

[Producer or Host Facilitator]

Thanks to all of our listeners who called in and thank you very much to Jen Ortiz. She's deputy editor of the Cut the Magazine series. Oh Baby in New York Magazine. You should go and check it out now. Thanks for being with us.

[Jen Ortiz]

Thank you so much.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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