Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode: Jad Abumrad Dives Into the World of Fela Kuti, Afrobeat Creator
Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Jad Abumrad

Overview

This episode of "All Of It" features Jad Abumrad, acclaimed radio and podcast storyteller, discussing his latest project: the 12-part audio documentary podcast, Fela Kuti: Fear No Man. The series explores the life, music, and political legacy of Nigerian Afrobeat pioneer Fela Kuti. With Felebration (the annual international celebration of Fela's life and work) taking place that week, Alison Stewart and Jad Abumrad delve into what makes Fela an enduring cultural icon, the challenges of capturing his story, and the importance of his political activism and musical innovation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jad Abumrad’s Introduction to Fela Kuti

• Initial awareness:
  • Jad knew Fela from "the song at a party" but not his significance until starting the podcast.
  • He was invited by someone working with the Kuti family and soon became deeply invested.
  • “And then I just got rabbit holed back into this world, and cause I couldn’t stop. I mean he's so interesting.” (01:32, Jad Abumrad)

Scope and Ambition of the Podcast

• Series Structure:
  • 12 one-hour episodes, documentary in nature.
  • Not just Fela’s biography, but also his bandmates, family, and Nigerian history.
  • “Fela is the same way [as Dolly Parton], but for an entire continent, for an entire amalgam… So he became a lens through which to see so many things.” (02:30, Jad Abumrad)
  • The show expanded from a small idea to a much larger, maximalist project. “You start and think it’s gonna be three things, and then it becomes 12.” (03:37, Jad Abumrad)

Challenging the Mythology

• Context over Heroism:
  • Abumrad wanted to go beyond Fela’s mythos as a rebel rebel-hero and situate him in a broader context.
  • “I wanted to put him in a wider context because Nigeria, West Africa... it’s not something we think about enough. …He just was a person who walked into the room at precisely the right moment when he was needed.” (03:54, Jad Abumrad)

Who to Include in the Story

• Key Interview Subjects:
  • Wishlist included high-profile figures like Barack Obama and actress Ayo Edebiri, but focus shifted to lesser-known bandmates.
  • “For example, the first episode is just a rhythm pianist named Dele Shashimi… you hear and feel [Fela’s] impact by looking at the people on the margins of the stage.” (05:25, Jad Abumrad)
  • Fela as an “energy source that lights up a light bulb—You can’t see the energy until you see the light.” (05:56, Jad Abumrad)

Dele Shashimi and the Power of Art

• Why Start with Dele:
  • Dele’s interview was “one of those I’ll never forget”. He faced trauma but was saved by music.
  • “What he experienced—I mean, he saw pretty much the worst thing a human can see, and then the music saved him… And that became, like, the focus at that point—this is a series about the power of art, the power of music.” (06:31–07:47, Jad Abumrad)

The Night Fela Died

• Listener Reflection:
  • Listener recalls visiting Lagos the day Fela died and attending a night of collective singing and tribute.
  • Jad notes an entire episode in the series dissects this deeply emotional, collective moment for Nigeria.
  • “There are people’s funerals where like the entire country comes together in a way that’s like kind of profound. It was one of those… that moment was just mythic.” (08:20, Jad Abumrad)

Difficulties in Accessing Fela’s Voice

• Sparse Archival Tape:
  • Fela left few interviews or reflective tapes; those that exist are often fragmented or chaotic.
  • “You will find tape of him very, very high on the sofa in his undies and you can’t make heads or tails… you really have to sort of weed through the people around him and through his actions.” (10:13, Jad Abumrad)
  • Abumrad recounts Fela’s relentless courage, especially after violent crackdowns—publicly displaying wounds, refusing to back down, and releasing political songs despite real danger.
  • Notable Quote: “It’s almost like imagining a band going on the lawn of the White House and singing to Trump as the National Guard is approaching.” (11:54, Jad Abumrad)

Fela’s Radicalization and Musical Evolution

• From Colonized Elitism to Revolutionary:
  • Fela came from a privileged Nigerian family, educated in England.
  • Initially aspired to European ideals, but encounters Sandra Isidore in the U.S., who “radicalized” him.
  • “You could say he found Africa in America, actually. And that was the moment he decided to go back and invent what he called a truly African form of music.” (12:23, Jad Abumrad)

Afrobeat: An Innovative Genre

• What Makes Afrobeat “Afrobeat”?
  • Blend of jazz, highlife, James Brown funk, and Yoruba drumming.
  • “He had taken James Brown rhythms and funk … married it with that. He’d taken Yoruba drumming… all those things locked. They just held hands, and suddenly it was like a new genre. …together they add up to something that’s way greater than the sum of their parts.” (15:30, Jad Abumrad)
  • Distinguishes from “Afrobeats,” the contemporary pop genre, which still pays homage to Fela.

Fela’s Cultural Value

• International Reverence vs. Home Reception:
  • Fela is revered as a giant internationally, but not fully embraced by the Nigerian government.
  • “His value is also that he represents why music matters, why art matters… Here was a guy who used music as a weapon. Like he. That’s what he called it. This is my weapon to use as a battering ram against the state.” (18:57, Jad Abumrad)
  • “To think that that is still possible, that we could still use music to not just dance to, but to move to and to become a movement to.” (19:51, Jad Abumrad)

Essential Fela Songs

• Jad’s Recommendations:
  • “Junkoku”
  • “Ruffle Fight” – noted for a “better 22 second passage of music anywhere”
  • “Kalokura Show” – a “deep cut” narrating the aftermath of a government raid
  • (20:07, Jad Abumrad)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You start and you think it’s gonna be three things, and then it becomes 12. That’s just sort of how it goes with me.” (03:37, Jad Abumrad)
• “We are not just individual heroes acting independently. We are the product of all the people who came before us, all the people who would come after us.” (03:54, Jad Abumrad)
• “Fela is hard to know, but he’s kind of like the energy source that lights up a light bulb. You can’t see the energy until you see the light.” (05:56, Jad Abumrad)
• “He represents why music matters, why art matters… Here was a guy who used music as a weapon… as a battering ram against the state.” (18:57, Jad Abumrad)

Listener Call Highlights

• Annie from Norwalk (09:28): Saw Fela perform in NYC in the 1980s; calls it “life changing” and formative for her music tastes and activism.
• South African musician Toby (14:06): Grew up under apartheid, found Fela’s music in the US, speaks to its influence on his compositions and admiration for both Fela and his musical descendants.
• Zeke from Park Slope (17:26): Described the impact of discovering world and Afrobeat music as a New York kid in the '70s; recalls seeing Fela's energy and showmanship live: “You could never stop dancing once you heard that music… he is the Duke Ellington in African music.”

Important Timestamps

• 00:09 – Alison Stewart introduces Jad Abumrad and the podcast overview.
• 01:32 – Jad discusses his first encounter with Fela’s legacy.
• 02:19-03:45 – The documentary’s scope and approach.
• 05:00 – Discussion on deciding interview subjects.
• 06:31 – The impact of Dele Shashimi’s story.
• 08:20 – Narration of the collective mourning when Fela died.
• 10:13 – The difficulty of obtaining Fela’s own words.
• 12:23 – Fela’s transformation after meeting Sandra Isidore.
• 15:30 – Dissecting what uniquely defines Afrobeat.
• 18:57 – Reflecting on Fela’s cultural value and the purpose of his music.
• 20:07 – Jad Abumrad’s top Fela Kuti song recommendations.

Tone & Style

The conversation is engaging, warm, and inquisitive, with an emphasis on storytelling and personal connection. Abumrad’s responses are thoughtful and nuanced, threaded with admiration for Fela’s artistry and activism, and an awareness of the historical forces that shaped—and were shaped by—Kuti’s life. Listeners’ contributions reinforce the emotional and communal power of Fela’s music.