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- [00:00]
Alison Stewart
Foreign.
- [00:09]
Host/Interviewer
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. New York is affectionately known as the 15th parish of Jamaica and for good reason. There are more than 150,000 Jamaican immigrants living in New York City, according to the center for Migration Studies, and even more in the metro area as a result of those numbers, especially for folks on White Plains Road in the Bronx or on Nostran Avenue in Brooklyn, you can enjoy the best Jamaican food in the city. Beef patties, jerk chicken or salt fish for Jamaican breakfast.
- [00:42]
Interviewer
You can also enjoy Jamaican cuisine at Miss Lily's, the popular East Village restaurant off of Tompkins Square Park. Andre Fowles was once a chef there and now he's written a cookbook called My Jamaican Vibrant Recipes from a Sun Drenched Island. He's also a three time chop champion and happens to be the private chef for Bruce Springsteen. The Boss wrote the foreword to his book. Andre Fowles joined me when the cookbook was published. We took calls then, but because this is an encore presentation, we won't be taking your calls today. Here's our conversation. I'm gonna read a little bit from your book. This is a beautiful introduction. It says, dappled sunlight flickering through the trees. A tendril of smoke unfurling from the coal fire. The perfume of red peas rising from coconut milk in a well worn pot. I can almost taste the thyme and scotch bonnet. It's like I've returned to my grandmother's kitchen. These are the sights, tastes and smells that bring me to Jamaica. Tell us about your grandmother's kitchen.
- [01:52]
Andre Fowles
Oh my gosh. She went straight for the heart with that one. You got me emot. That's actually my one of probably my best paragraph because as, as you were reading that, it took me back.
- [02:03]
Caller
Yeah.
- [02:04]
Andre Fowles
And I got teary eyed for a hot second. It's just showed us food is such, is such a, is such the ultimate connector. And it's something that I really wanted to make sure that I captured in the essence of the book. It's not just about the recipes. It's a storytelling my story and I'm sure other people can connect to my story. And you know, food is one of those things that everyone can, you know, sit around a table and share and talk about just about anything. And it's just something that I'm super proud of.
- [02:34]
Host/Interviewer
Mama Cherry was your grandma?
- [02:36]
Andre Fowles
Yes.
- [02:36]
Interviewer
She raised you in Kingston.
- [02:39]
Host/Interviewer
What did Mama Cherry instill in you about cooking?
- [02:43]
Andre Fowles
Firstly, show show respect to the cuisine. And if you're gonna cook, give it your all because that's something, you know, growing up in Jamaica, we didn't have a lot, you know, you know, back then, but food was one of those things that my mom, my grandmother showed love. So they took it extremely serious, right? So they'll go to the market, they'll shop. You know, they get the best ingredients. And the preparation was meticulous. You know, they put a lot of effort in to make sure that everything was clean, everything was done well, the techniques and everything was great. So I think watching my grandmother worked in the kitchen, it instilled great values of just being disciplined, you know, showing love, being respectful, and being kind. And, you know, so the reason why she's named, you know, you know, Marit Mama Cherry is that people often said that she's sweet. She's sweet like a cherry. And her friends would call her Cherry. And, you know, we, you know, we call her Mama Cherry. Mama Cherry, Yeah.
- [03:37]
Host/Interviewer
What was the favorite dish she made for you? And you were like, oh, yeah, Mama
- [03:41]
Andre Fowles
Cherry's cooking that oxtail, hands down. That's why my oxtail is the best.
- [03:46]
Alison Stewart
Because.
- [03:47]
Andre Fowles
No, for sure. That's why my oxtail, because I learned from the master. The way how she prepared her oxtail was literally like watching a French master chef. Like, everything was meticulous. And her techniques and how she, you know, she. She really approached that dish was a spot on. So, yeah, her. Her oxtail and rice and peas was unbelievable.
- [04:08]
Interviewer
What made you decide that cooking was going to be your job, it was going to be your profession?
- [04:12]
Andre Fowles
If I'm being completely honest, growing up in Jamaica, I wanted to practice medicine, but because of my circumstances, you know, my family could not afford to send me to, you know, to school for that. So I was like, all right, cooking is the next, next best thing. I' at it. I grew up around food because Jamaica is a cooking culture. Like, but then we didn't do takeout, you know. You know, maybe, maybe it's on the weekend, we'll grab some jerk chicken or maybe some patties throughout the week. But most of our meals was being cooked at home, so that was something that came naturally. And of course, Jamaica is, you know, a tourist destination, so there's a lot of, like, jobs available. And I'm like, okay, I gotta go cook.
- [04:53]
Interviewer
We're talking Jamaican cooking. My guest is Andre Fowles, author of the book My Jamaican Table Vibrant Recipe from a sun Drenched Island. A lot of New Yorkers know Ms. Lilly's. I know Ms. Lilly's. You were the chef there. You were the chef there. The culinary director of Ms. Lilly's location in Negril, Jamaica. What do you want customers to feel about Jamaican food when they visit Miss Lily's?
- [05:16]
Andre Fowles
It's an experience. Firstly, because New York is the hustle and bustle city, right? We're all here to achieve, you know, to achieve our goals and dreams. So when you're out in the street, you feel like, all right, you gotta go get this done, get that done. But my, my, my conc of a restaurant is that once you open that door and you enter, you should be transported, you know, you shouldn't feel like you're in New York anymore. Should feel like you're somewhere in Jamaica, you know, having a good, you know, cocktail or a Red Stripe beer. Listen to some great music, smelling the, you know, the pimento, you know, as it grill, you know, as we jerk some chicken, you know, having some pepper shrimp. So it's an experience. We want people to feel like, you know, you belong and you, you know, you're in that moment, and for that, you know, that, you know, those few minutes are an hour or two. You're just in that one experience.
- [06:06]
Interviewer
Ah, you said red stripe.
- [06:08]
Chase Credit Journey Announcer
Yes.
- [06:10]
Andre Fowles
Ice cold red stripe. It has to be extra cold.
- [06:12]
Interviewer
Yes, it does.
- [06:14]
Host/Interviewer
All right, let's talk jerk.
- [06:15]
Andre Fowles
Yes.
- [06:16]
Host/Interviewer
All right.
- [06:16]
Interviewer
What are the elements of true jerk? Rub or marinade, what does it need to have?
- [06:22]
Andre Fowles
So jerk? We can identify jerk as two things. It's a seasoning and it's a method, right? So first thing, the seasoning, it has to have a few ingredients to make it jerk, right? Allspice pimento, that we call it. You have to have the garlic, the ginger, the thyme, the scallion, and of course, the heartbeat of Jamaica, the Scotch bonnet. But oftentimes, you know, Scotch bonnet, sometimes we can't find that you can substitute for habaneros. But the flavor is going to be different because Scotch bonnet gives such a, like, it's not just about heat with Scotch Bonnet. It has a citrus, a fruity aroma that makes jerk really, really special. And then in terms of the technique, you need some kind of a smoke element to make it extra tasty. Obviously, we can cook in the oven, which. Which will give you a similar taste. But to get, like, the perfect jerk, you need a combination of the seasoning and the smoke.
- [07:13]
Host/Interviewer
Jamaican curry powder is different than the curry powder that we think of. Tell me a little bit about Jamaican curry powder. What sets it apart from other curries?
- [07:22]
Andre Fowles
Jamaican curry powder is. It's a little bit more mellow in terms of the complexity of the Flavor, it's very turmeric, fenugreek, cumin forward. And just. And what really makes the curry dishes special is the combination of the Scotch bonnet, right? It all comes back to the scotch, because the Scotch bonnet is just one of those gifts that keeps on giving because it's such a fun chili pepper to cook. Cook with. Because we do rice and peas, we do soups. And if you know the right techniques and the right different Scotch bonnets, on how to use them. For instance, an example, when we make rice and peas, Jamaica, we always use a green Scotch bonnet to drop just to steep it in that coconut broth. Because the flavor of the green Scotch bonnet gives you. It's not that spicy, but it gives you that citrus fruity note that makes rice and peas taste so good. And it's because of the Scotch bonnet.
- [08:16]
Interviewer
And when you say rice and peas, it's not little green peas.
- [08:19]
Andre Fowles
No, no, please explain. It's beans. Actually, it's red kidney beans. But you know what? We're Jamaicans. We do things our own way. We call it peace.
- [08:28]
Host/Interviewer
Let's talk to Zeke in Park Slope. Hey, Zeke.
- [08:31]
Caller
Than.
- [08:31]
Host/Interviewer
Thanks for making the time to call. All of it.
- [08:34]
Alison Stewart
Alison Love calling every time, calling into you. Okay, so, my brother, you hit my heart, and I'm gonna tell you why very quickly, in a good way. My mother's Cuban. My father's Jamaican. I'm Panamanian. Okay, Number one. Okay. I was in Church Avenue last two weekends ago. I was at home, and I had to say, how do I make cow foot soup? I have enough cow foot soup. And I go, yeah, boy.
- [08:58]
Andre Fowles
Yes, sir.
- [09:00]
Caller
You were talking now.
- [09:04]
Alison Stewart
And I met my first time. It wasn't bad, but it's an art. I wasn't stirring. I was trying to use a pressure cooker the whole nine yards. And I didn't do it great, but
- [09:12]
Caller
didn't do it bad.
- [09:13]
Alison Stewart
I need your expertise.
- [09:15]
Andre Fowles
Wow. I gotta say, co foot soup. You're talking my language because I love soups. So cold foot soups are the first thing you have to make sure you get a good quality cow foot. Right. And ideally, a pressure cooker would then cut your cook. We'll cut your cook time in half, but if not, it's perfectly fine when one you. So once you drop your co foot in your water, you want to start seasoning from the beginning. So you add a couple cloves of garlic, your pimento, your thyme. And as it starts to cook, you want to skim that. You know, skim that scum that comes on the top. And then you want to start to continue adding your flavor. So you can add your. Your pumpkin, whatever vegetables you want, but always season as you go along. And then once it starts getting a bit tender, you want to crank it down to a simmer and let us have it. Just do its thing for the next maybe 30 minutes, and then you're golden.
- [10:06]
Host/Interviewer
All right, good luck, Zeke. Let's talk to Brenda in Queens. Hi, Brenda. You called all of it. Thanks for taking the time.
- [10:13]
Caller
Good afternoon.
- [10:15]
Interviewer
Good afternoon.
- [10:16]
Andre Fowles
Good afternoon.
- [10:18]
Caller
So I'm Jamaican, and I have lived in America in New York, almost 40 years. I came here at 22, and I cook Jamaican food a lot. And what I've discovered is that I'm very disappointed when I eat out to get Jamaican food. So I cook it myself. Additionally, my favorite. My all time favorite Jamaican dish is stew, peas, and rice. And it's because it's something I could eat over and over Will not without feeling like I'm making myself sick or, you know, without getting tired of it. There's just something about the stewy red kidney beans that just. I can. That's the only time I eat seconds. I do not consider myself a foodie, but I could eat that all the time.
- [11:04]
Chase Credit Journey Announcer
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- [11:06]
Host/Interviewer
Thank you so much for calling.
- [11:08]
Interviewer
You write that Jamaica has a nose to tail culture, that you don't waste any part of the animal. How does that influence the flavors?
- [11:16]
Andre Fowles
A lot. A lot. Because, you know, the scraps, like what people would say, but then those are. Those parts of the animal usually carries the most flavor because it takes longer to cook. As it cooks and it breaks down, the flavors gets more complex. That's why oxtail is on a surge right now. You can't afford oxtail these days. Like, it's more expensive than steak. Like, it's because of just the tendons, the fat, everything that's in it, you know, and it goes. And of course, it goes back to cold food. It sounds taboo when people. People are not, you know, aware of what it is and how to use it. But once you cook it, it's so delicious. And so I would say, yeah, those. Those nose to tail culture that we have, you know, everything we eat a coal foot, the coal head, whatever it is, it's just delicious parts of the animal.
- [12:03]
Host/Interviewer
As I mentioned, you're a Bruce Springsteen chef.
- [12:06]
Andre Fowles
Yes, I am.
- [12:08]
Host/Interviewer
Does he have a favorite Jamaican dish?
- [12:11]
Andre Fowles
Actually, yeah, he has a few. But I would say his go to favorite is curried lobster and coconut rice with some. Some side of plantains and some steamed vegetables. He loves the flavors of curry and he loves the sweetness of the, you know, of the coconut milk. And I always. So whenever I make my curry, I always try to make condiments with it, right. To help to enhance the flavor of the curry. So usually it's two condiments. It's, it's. So it's either a hot sauce, a scotch bonding hot sauce, but kind of mellow. And then you have a mango chutney or any chutney of its kind could be pineapple, you know, so those, those combination of hot sweet curry, the coconut rice, and of course roti as well. It's just like you're having a mini buffet because you can create your own flavor pockets, you know, And I think that's one of the things that he really loves.
- [13:05]
Host/Interviewer
My son loves beef patties. I just had to share that with you.
- [13:08]
Andre Fowles
I make a pretty wicked beef patty.
- [13:10]
Host/Interviewer
I'm gonna try.
- [13:11]
Andre Fowles
It's in the book.
- [13:11]
Alison Stewart
I'm gonna try.
- [13:13]
Andre Fowles
Look at that. Take a look at that patty in the book. It's like I put so much work into that recipes because it's something, you know, I love my cuisine and I want people to, you know, to connect with that. I didn't want to do a quick project. This book took me four years because I did the research, I test the recipes and it's a great book.
- [13:32]
Interviewer
That was my conversation with chef Andre Fowles, author of the cookbook My Jamaican Vibrant Recipes from a sun Drenched Island. And that is all of it for today. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.
- [13:48]
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