Jeff Hiller's Book 'Actress Of A Certain Age'

Summary

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Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Jeff Hiller's Book 'Actress of a Certain Age'
Date: December 29, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guest: Jeff Hiller (B)

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Overview

This episode centers on Jeff Hiller’s memoir, Actress of a Certain Age: My 20-Year Trail to Overnight Success. Known for his role as Joel on HBO’s Somebody Somewhere, Hiller shares candid, humorous, and touching insights from his life and career as a “not-quite-famous” actor. The conversation explores Hiller's approach to memoir writing, his personal journey—including struggles, late-blooming success, grief, and coming out—and the realities of working in the arts. The episode masterfully blends comedic moments with deep personal reflection, giving listeners an honest look at resilience, hope, and authenticity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Celebrity Memoirs? (01:34)

• Love for Memoirs: Jeff discusses his obsession with celebrity memoirs, noting their entertainment value, especially when celebrities mention knowing each other pre-fame.

  “When they're famous, it's even more fun. Cause you know, they usually know other famous people and talk about them.” (B, 01:36)

• Seeking Hope: Jeff admits his deeper motivation was aspirational, reading memoirs for hope that he might one day become successful enough to write one himself. (01:47)

What Hiller Avoided in His Memoir (02:01)

• Common Memoir Pitfalls: He avoids overdone tropes, like elaborate family histories or the “bait-and-switch” surprise reveals.

  “I didn't want to talk about my grandparents. Nobody cares about your grandparents.” (B, 02:09)

• Authenticity and Humor: Hiller shaped his memoir to be “authentic and funny,” eschewing cliché for honesty—sprinkled with a lot of jokes. (02:52)

Writing Process and Format (03:05)

• Incorporation of Solo Shows: The book is “Frankensteined” together from solo shows Hiller performed, giving him material already tested before audiences.

  “At least if you have the same ears as a lot of people at Joe's Pub, I think you'll like it.” (B, 03:24)

• Unique Chapter Headers: Each chapter starts with a celebrity memoir title and an asterisk with factual info about when that celebrity got their “break.”

  “I would find out when they got their big break... and compare it to my age, and it was always a disappointment.” (B, 03:51)

Lessons on Comparison and Hope (03:51)

• Hiller shares the futility and despair of chronically comparing oneself to others’ timelines.

  “Everybody's story is unique and special, and if you're comparing yourself all the time, you're gonna be despairing.” (B, 03:57)

• Encourages embracing individuality and patience—even if fame is late to arrive.

  “…this old queen didn't get a break until 45 years old.” (B, 04:23)

Rock Bottom and Resilience (04:30–05:48)

• “Cookie Rock Bottom”: Jeff recounts a low point after his mother’s passing, describing “numbing himself with baked goods” as a form of unhealthy coping.

  • Memorable moment: His detailed ode to different types of Tate’s cookies.

  “The point is, I had turned 40, my mom... had just died, and I was feeling like... I am teaching improv and temping and I want to be an actor and I'm not.” (B, 05:04)

• Realization: Even during that moment, he knew food wouldn’t “fix” things but ultimately it prompted a journey toward gratitude and self-acceptance.

Influence of Self-Help Books & Vulnerability (06:16–07:35)

• Favorites: Pema Chödrön, Brené Brown (“You need to be vulnerable”), Eckhart Tolle.

  “...that's sort of how I've lived my whole life.” (B, 06:54)

• Owning Mistakes: Hiller discusses a typo on his book cover—“Actress of a Satane Age”—and how owning the error publicly fostered connection and acceptance online.

  “Rather than deny it... I'm just owning it.” (B, 07:10)

  • The typo inspired others to share their own “typo stories,” creating a community of shared vulnerability.

Growing Up and Coming Out (08:21–09:34)

• Texas Childhood: Growing up gay in 1980s Texas was difficult; strong support from his mom made a difference.

  “A wonderful place for a profoundly homosexual child to develop.” (B, 08:29)

• Mother’s Acceptance: His mom proactively prepared for his coming out, showing love and readiness.

  “She just wanted to know more just in case this issue ever came up.” (A, 08:54)
  “She said, I know.” (B, 09:20)

• Father’s Quiet Support: His father, though less verbal, demonstrated acceptance through consistent care.

• Peer Acceptance: Humorously shares an anecdote about coming out to another gay man—a waiter—whose response:

  “Yeah, girl, no duh.” (C, 10:06)

“Acting Straight” and Social Observation (10:33–11:21)

• Jeff reflects on his attempts to “act straight” and how unconvincing they were, as well as offering pointed (and funny) advice to women about men.

  “If you have that question, he isn't. Go run away, find a nice guy that you think is a little bit boring, and marry him.” (B, 11:09)

Struggles of Making It in NYC (11:26–13:49)

• Early Apartments: Describes housing struggles, vividly recounting the fierce competition for affordable apartments.

  “Over 200 people showed up for a 250 square foot studio apartment with no closet.” (B, 11:53)

• Harlem Beginnings: First apartment in Harlem, marked by moments of naivete and the changing landscape of gentrification.

• Classic NYC Experience: Waiting in line at 3 a.m. for Shakespeare in the Park—amidst wild dogs, muggings, and ultimately, seeing Meryl Streep.

  “We just barely got in to see Meryl Streep and Kevin Klein in the Seagull in Shakespeare in the Park. Even though that was Chekhov.” (B, 13:31)

• Despite the chaos, these experiences made Jeff more determined to stay in New York.

The Actor’s Reality: Auditions & Rejections (14:03–15:06)

• Recalls a notorious audition room at Roundabout Theater Company—with the bathroom inside the rehearsal space.

  “I had to ask Oscar winning director Sam Mendes if I could go to the bathroom in the middle of my audition...” (B, 14:28)

• Humorous yet cringe-inducing tale about being overheard by Sam Mendes.

  “Happy Pride. WNYC.” (B, 14:45)

Advice for Aspiring Actors & Artists (15:06–16:31)

• Perform for the Joy, Not the Agent:

  "...Don't worry about the agent. The agent will come. Worry about the performing..." (C quoting B, 15:07)

• Longevity & Process Over Hits:

  “A career is built on longevity, not on making the top 30 comics under 30 lists... There isn't an expiration date on performance.” (C quoting B, 15:16)

• Enjoying the Journey: Jeff encourages finding joy in auditions and reminds creatives that you don't need permission, credentials, or gatekeepers to make art.

Breakthrough and Meaning in Success (17:04–17:44)

• Defining the “Big Break”:

  “Somebody Somewhere, without a doubt. It's the first time I've been able to not have to temp or teach improv... and people... connected to it and love it.” (B, 17:14)

• Audience Connection as Fulfillment: Being stopped by appreciative fans brings pride and meaning.

Starstruck and Staying Humble (17:44–18:21)

• A star encounter—meeting Jonathan Groff—was tempered by Hiller spilling mustard down his shirt, keeping things humble (and hilarious).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Comparison:

  “If you're comparing yourself all the time, you're gonna be despairing, and you start to lose hope and become a little cynical. And I don't want to live a life like that.” (B, 03:57)

• On Owning Mistakes:

  “You just have to own it. And, you know, what are you gonna do? I can't change it at this point... So rather than, you know, having an environmental disaster where we repulp books, we're just gonna somehow be okay with it.” (B, 07:58)

• On Making Art Without Permission:

  “If you want to paint, you can paint. If you want to perform, all you need is, you know, the mirror.” (B, 16:31)

• On Artistic Longevity:

  “A career is built on longevity... There isn't an expiration date on performance.” (C quoting B, 15:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:34 – Why Jeff loves celebrity memoirs
• 02:01 – What he avoided in his memoir
• 03:05 – Book format and process
• 04:30 – Midlife crisis "cookie rock bottom"
• 06:16 – Self-help books & vulnerability
• 08:21 – Growing up and coming out
• 11:26 – Struggling to live in NYC
• 13:43 – Shakespeare in the Park adventure
• 14:03 – Audition anxiety & Sam Mendes story
• 15:06 – Career advice for actors
• 17:04 – Defining the “big break”
• 17:44 – Meeting Jonathan Groff

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Tone & Style

The episode mirrors Hiller’s wit and warmth—his stories are filled with self-deprecating humor, honesty, and empathy. Serious themes are approached with levity and hope, leaving listeners both entertained and inspired.

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This summary captures the spirit, stories, and advice offered by Jeff Hiller—providing a detailed, timestamped roadmap for anyone looking to understand his path and perspective without having listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[A]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Today's show is all about books that really resonated with our followers on Instagram. One of those books was written by Emmy winning actor Jeff Hiller. Jeff Hiller is immediately recognizable as the best friend and truth broker Joel on the show Somebody Somewhere. Jeff also loves memoirs. He has read a ton of them. When he was offered the chance to write one, he was ready. He knew all the traps. He didn't want to go to the Woe is me. He didn't want to do the fake out moment. Instead, his book is full of laugh out loud moments and really beautiful insights about his relationships coming out to his parents and his own health issues. The book is titled Actress of a certain age. My 20 year trail to Overnight Success. He writes, this is a book about what it's like to be an actor who isn't famous. An actor who clawed so scraped and fought their way to the lower middle rung of the ladder. I began my conversation with Jeff by asking him why he loves celebrity memoirs so much.

[B]

Oh, I just love, you know, I love people's stories just in general, but when they're famous, it's even more fun. Cause you know, they usually know other famous people and talk about them. And I love it when they knew someone famous before they were famous. But if I'm being completely honest, we what I was really looking for in those memoirs was hope that somehow I would get to a place where I could also have enough success to be able to write a celebrity memoir.

[A]

Well, as you were thinking about them, you have a list of do's and don'ts that you don't want in a celebrity memoir. What didn't you want to do?

[B]

I didn't want to talk about my grandparents. Nobody cares about your grandparents. Everybody wants to talk about how their grandparents were in some country and then came here. And it's a beautiful story, but I just want to hear about when you won that big gold statue. Do you know what I'm saying?

[A]

And you also didn't want the like the surprise hit. Like, who would have known that I liked a car? Said Oprah, who gave everybody a car? You know, it's like one of those sort of like bait and switches.

[B]

Yeah, that's a cliche that I tried to avoid. The ones that are like, I said no to that movie and the movie turned out to be Titanic.

[A]

So what did you have in mind for your book? You had all these ideas like, I don't want it to Be like this. I want it to be. How did you want it to be?

[B]

I wanted it to be authentic, and I wanted it to be funny, and I think I landed on that, and I wanted to tell my real story and my honest story, but I also wanted lots of jokes.

[C]

Had you written anything before like this?

[B]

Yeah, this is sort of cobbled together from several solo shows that I've done over the years. And so I Frankensteined them into a book.

[A]

Oh, that's really smart. So you know what works for an audience.

[B]

Yes, I already heard the laughs are. So I think at least if you have the same ears as a lot of people at Joe's Pub, I think you'll like it.

[A]

Each chapter of the book starts with, like, a celebrity quote.

[B]

It's the title of a celebrity memoir.

[A]

Right. And then there's a little asterisk, and you have a little piece of information at the bottom, like, alan's coming.

[B]

Exactly. When they became internationally famous.

[A]

Why was that important to you?

[B]

Because that's what I always did when I read celebrity memoir. I would find out when they got their big break, and then I'd get out my calculator and compare it to my age, and it was always a disappointment. And, you know, that's kind of a lesson of the book and of my life, too, is that everybody's story is unique and special, and if you're comparing yourself all the time, you're gonna be despairing, and you start to lose hope and become a little cynical. And I don't want to live a life like that. So I'm. I'm allowing people to say, like, whoa, this old queen didn't get a break until 45 years old.

[A]

Well, you start with a midlife crisis. Actually, I do. It happened around the worst day was 2017. It involved a lot of cookies. All right, would you.

[B]

I did have a rock bottom in which I was numbing myself with baked goods. Yes.

[A]

So what was going on that day that you decided to just. Just eat as many cookies as you could in one? And what kind of cookies?

[B]

That's important. Oh, Tate's cookies from bodegas. There were three different bags, unfortunately, so there was multiple options. I do like a white chocolate macadamia nut and the chipless wonders. Have you ever had those? They're really good. It's just like a chocolate chip cookie without any chocolate chips. Anyway, I'm digressing here. The point is, I had turned 40, my mom was. Had just died, and I was feeling like, oh, my gosh, I live in a city that I can't afford. I am teaching improv and temping and I want to be an actor and I'm not. And I'm going to not feel that and instead taste this delicious sugar, butter, flour.

[A]

And when did you realize upon eating that last cookie, like, this isn't gonna do it. This isn't gonna do it for me.

[B]

Oh, I felt it on the first cookie. But yeah, but that was sort of a. It was a bit of a wake up call. Of course. Like, my reaction to it was to be unhealthy and be like, instead, I'll just get thin and that'll make me happy. Which is sort of ridiculous. But what are you gonna do? It was just how I was and eventually did lead to. To realizing I need to be grateful for life. Just whatever life is.

[A]

You read some self help books that were helpful to you.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which ones were good? And then which ones were sort of.

[B]

Like, meh, oh, we're gonna get going for the diss. I love my Pema children. I love my Brene Brown. I love my Eckhart Tolle or Tolle. There have been some that didn't do it for me, but they didn't register in my brain enough for me to call them out here on the radio.

[A]

What did you like about Brene Brown that's interesting?

[B]

Well, I love what she says, which is you need to be vulnerable and you need to be honest about what's going on in your life. And that's sort of how I've lived my whole life. I mean, for instance, there is a typo on the COVID of my book.

[A]

I was gonna ask you.

[B]

And rather than deny it or pretend it's not there or get out a sharpie and write an R on the side of every spine of my book, I'm just owning it. It says actress of a satane age on the COVID of my book.

[A]

It does. I'm showing them a satane age.

[B]

It's a cetane age, which I have learned. Cetane is a product that keeps nitrogen in your fertilizer. So I think that, I don't know, there's a metaphor there somewhere.

[A]

It's so great that you pointed out on your Instagram. I mean, and it's funny because the responses, people are one. They love you for doing that. They respond like, I had a typo in my resume that went to wherever. My book's got a ton of typos. I had a bad pie. Oh, it was terrible. And it made me feel so good. Like that somebody Else had a same situation and you have to just kind of own it.

[B]

You just have to own it. And, you know, what are you gonna do? I can't change it at this point. Literally, if you own it, order it, this is the book you will get. And so rather than, you know, having an environmental disaster where we repulp books, we're just gonna somehow be okay with it. That's what life is like, right? You just gotta shrug and keep going.

[A]

My guest is Jeff Hiller. The name of his book is Actress of a Certain Age. Can you describe where you grew up?

[B]

Yes, I grew up in Texas in the 1980s, a wonderful place for a profoundly homosexual child to develop. And yeah, and, you know, it was a little difficult, but I also had a really great mom and she really helped me through what I would call sort of traumatic bullying as a child.

[A]

It was interesting because when you came out to your mom, she'd already done a bunch of research, which was so sweet. She just wanted to know more just in case this issue ever came up.

[B]

She is a classic type a person, but also one who leads with compassion. And yes, she had talked to pastors at her church and read books and was really ready for me to say it. I just needed to say it. And finally I did. And she said, I know.

[A]

Your dad was a little quieter about it, but he wanted to just make sure. I think you write like he just wanted to make sure you had what you needed. What did that mean to you?

[B]

You know, he's a man of very few words, always in life, not just around that subject. And he didn't have the language to say it's okay, but he showed it with his actions and just really made me feel welcomed and loved, even after coming out to him.

[A]

And then you mentioned to somebody, you get it, get all your energy up to say, I am also gay. And you write, he looked me in.

[C]

The eye and he said, yeah, girl, no duh.

[B]

He was a waiter. I really thought. I thought I'd come out and all the gay people everywhere would embrace me and we would all, I don't know, join a utopian society. And, you know, it's not that way. It's more complicated than that.

[A]

It is more complicated than that. Here's a question. Did you feel that you've been playing.

[C]

Straight the whole time?

[B]

Oh, did I feel I had been? Yes. In retrospect, was I? No, no, no, no. The reviews were bad on my acting job of acting straight. Yeah.

[C]

It was interesting, though, because. And you remind in the book you were A little bit of an undercover agent with straight guys. And the way they talked about certain women.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Any. Would you like to give any advice to women who are dealing with a certain kind of straight man? And you got questions about them, you sort of think, like, is this guy a good guy?

[B]

He isn't. If you have that question, he isn't. Go run away, find a nice guy that you think is a little bit boring, and marry him.

[C]

Based on what Jeff has heard, which.

[A]

You have to read about in the.

[C]

Book, which we can't talk about.

[A]

It's interesting because you describe, like, you think you've got this nailed. You've got, like. I think it's $3,000 in your sock. Like you're gonna go to an open house.

[B]

I had $1,500 in each shoe case.

[A]

I got one of them.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Wouldn't look at the other one. But when you got there, you literally found out that wasn't enough money.

[B]

No. And the. The everyone else was there, like, offering even more money. And I went to an open house in the west village that over 200 people showed up for for a 250 square foot studio apartment with no closet.

[A]

So where did you. Where was your first apartment?

[B]

It was in Harlem on 142nd street and St. Nicholas.

[A]

And what was living up there like?

[B]

It was. It was great. It was. I think it's significantly more gentrified now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And there was at one point a man who said, it wasn't this hot till you came up here. And I was like, oh, yeah, this summer. And of course, he was actually talking about law enforcement. But I was young. I was young and naive. I had to have someone explain that to me.

[A]

Well, in describing the book, you're living up in Harlem and you and your friend decide to have sort of a quintessential New York experience. You're gonna wait in line for Shakespeare in the Park. This starts at like 3 in the morning.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You decide you're gonna wait in line.

[B]

That was the aim. Y.

[A]

You encounter everything possible that can happen to somebody in New York.

[B]

I surely did. I saw a group of wild dogs. I know that doesn't make sense, but there was a group of wild dogs. People are like, that's not true. I swear to you, my friend Meredith will back me up. We saw two men being held up by gunpoint. And I very stupidly walked between the two men and the gun.

[A]

Just hodey do do.

[B]

We told a police officer downstairs, and he went, okay. Then we got to the line at 3 in the morning and we were 180th in line and we found out there was another line on the east side of the park that was also waiting. And we just barely got in to see Meryl Streep and Kevin Klein in the Seagull in Shakespeare in the Park. Even though that was Chekhov.

[A]

That whole experience, did that ever make you want to leave New York or did it make you want to stay even more?

[B]

Maybe like mid experience, I was a little like, maybe I should get out of here. But once it happened, it was like, I did that, I did that and I'm doing this and it made me want to stay all the more. I mean, I'm still here 25 years later.

[A]

You describe what it was like to audition as an actor in New York. And you describe this one room, this sort of this evil audition room. And you said that most people, we have a lot of actors who listen, that they might actually recognize it when. Describe this audition room for us.

[B]

I haven't been to it post Pandemic, so maybe it's changed. But there was at the Roundabout Theater Company, they have this audition room that's also a rehearsal studio where the waiting room is outside, but the bathrooms are inside. And so you have to go into audition and you can't go to the bathroom first. And I was having a moment of, you know, human distress and I had to ask Oscar winning director Sam Mendes if I could go to the bathroom in the middle of my audition. And after I did, I could hear him very clearly talking and realized, oh my God, he heard everything I did in here. Happy Pride. Wnyc.

[C]

I'm gonna read a piece of advice from your book, which is really, again, that part where it's very funny and then like really heartfelt, it says, so if you wanted advice on how to get an agent, mine would be this. Don't worry about the agent. The agent will come. Worry about the performing. Find places to act, make a web series with your friends, take acting classes and perfect your craft. Try stand up or improv. And most of all, do not compare yourself with anyone else. Even people who've written memoirs. Especially those people. There isn't one way to get an agent or become a full time performer. There are 1 million ways. A career is built on longevity, not on making the top 30 comics under 30 lists. We aren't models, dancers, or professional athletes. There isn't an expiration date on performance. Yeah, how long did it take you to reach that point? Because I know there are people who haven't reached that point yet?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, do as I say, not as I do. I think there was a time when I was so focused on results instead of on process, and I'm still sometimes that way. But I also really take moments to think like, oh, my gosh, okay, I auditioned today and I didn't book it, but I really loved what I did in the audition, so I'm gonna just enjoy that. And I. And I do. I enjoy auditioning, unlike most actors.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that that's true for other people too. People who are artists, who aren't professional artists. You get to. If you want to paint, you can paint. If you want to perform, all you need is, you know, the mirror. And I think a lot of times we think, oh, we're not allowed to do that because I don't have an agent or I don't have a gallery. I don't have a. Whatever, a radio show at 1 in New York City. But you can talk to anybody and be a great interviewer.

[A]

What do you consider, did that get personal? That got a little personal. What do you consider your big break? When you think, sit back and you think, yeah, this was my big break.

[B]

Oh, somebody somewhere, Without a doubt. Yeah. Because even though I had done a lot before then, it's the first time I've been able to not have to temp or teach improv or do anything else. And also it's the first time that I've really felt people in the audience in great numbers, connected to it and love it. I mean, I can walk down the street just fine, but every once in a while, somebody will stop me and say, your show meant so much to me. And that feels like a real accomplishment that I'm proud of.

[A]

In your book, there's a moment where you get to meet Tony nominee John Groff.

[B]

Tony winner. I mean, not last night, but he has won.

[A]

Yeah. Tony winner John Groff. What did it mean to you to meet somebody like that at that point in your life?

[B]

Well, I should. The story is a little deeper than that, unfortunately. I did drool mustard down my shirt while I was meeting him, so. So, you know, it was very exciting to meet him, but he was also, you know, mildly or profoundly humiliating.

[A]

That was my conversation with Emmy award winning actor Jeff Hiller. His memoir is titled Actress of a certain my 20 years trail to Overnight Success. Up next, Ocean Vuong shares how caring for a woman with dementia helped inspire his new novel, the Emperor of Gladness. Stay with us.

[D]

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[A]

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[D]

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[B]

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[E]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.