Jesse Plemons Stars in 'Bugonia,' the Latest Film From Yorgos Lanthimos

Summary

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Podcast Summary

All Of It (WNYC): Jesse Plemons Stars in 'Bugonia,' the Latest Film From Yorgos Lanthimos

Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Yorgos Lanthimos (director), Jesse Plemons (actor)
Episode Focus: Exploring the themes, characters, and creative choices of "Bugonia," a new film by Yorgos Lanthimos starring Jesse Plemons and Emma Stone. The film examines alienation, conspiracy theories, and power dynamics through an offbeat, genre-bending story.

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Episode Overview

Host Alison Stewart dives into the cultural and philosophical layers of "Bugonia," a surreal satire from director Yorgos Lanthimos. Jesse Plemons (who plays Teddy, a conspiracy-obsessed worker) and Lanthimos unpack character development, the collaborative filmmaking process, the appeal of aliens as a motif, and how shifting a major character’s gender brings fresh dimensions to their adaptation of “Save the Green Planet.” The episode spotlights the film’s unique tone and its interrogation of truth, power, and the absurdities of human nature.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Premise and Themes of "Bugonia"

• The film’s core reflects Karl Marx's theory of alienation—workers under capitalism are disconnected from their labor, resulting in a broader estrangement from humanity and society.

  • Alison Stewart (00:09): "Yorgos Lanthimos gives new meaning to the idea of Karl Marx's theory of alienation... All of which sort of takes place in this movie."

• Jesse Plemons stars as Teddy, a packaging facility worker ensnared by Internet conspiracies; he kidnaps his CEO, convinced she’s an extraterrestrial plotting to destroy Earth.

  • Clip (01:19): Teddy explains his “evidence” for her alienness: "The tells are there. Narrow feet, thin cuticles, slight overbite, semi obtruding earlobes... You just know."

Avoiding Conspiracy Theory Tropes

• Jesse Plemons describes what drew him to Teddy as a character—he’s not a flat conspiracy theorist but makes points that are uncomfortably understandable.
  • Jesse Plemons (02:48): "...it was very hard to argue some of his points. Some of his points I agreed strongly with. And then some others not so much. That’s the brilliant thing that Will Tracy, our screenwriter, did—he gave both Teddy and Michelle very compelling, very objectively true statements, you know, dialogue."

Creative Collaboration and Trust

• Yorgos Lanthimos discusses the benefits of working repeatedly with collaborators like Emma Stone (Michelle/CEO), Jesse Plemons, and composer Jerskin Fendrix.
  • Yorgos Lanthimos (03:54): "Finding someone that... you understand, that you can get along with... you build trust... there's no fear in making a fool of yourself because you know everybody has your back."
  • Repeated collaborations create a safe, in-tune environment for actors and crew, crucial for tackling complex films.

Character Construction and Archetypes

• Lanthimos intentionally introduces characters as recognizable archetypes (the Everyman, the cold CEO) before peeling back layers.
  • Yorgos Lanthimos (06:29): "We treat them initially almost as archetypes... from her house and her daily routine, how she wakes up... the way she dresses... just reinforce the initial idea... But the point of the film... is to afterwards kind of challenge those ideas... revealing layers of these characters’ personalities and traits..."

Dialogue, Corporate Jargon, and Character Depth

• The cat-and-mouse conversations between Teddy and the CEO (Michelle, played by Emma Stone) are intentionally ambiguous—could be human, could be alien.

  • Stewart: "Michelle keeps saying things like, 'Let's have a dialogue.' It could be human or it could be alien." (08:02)
  • Lanthimos says Michelle adapts her approach, shifting from assertive to conciliatory as she gauges Teddy’s intelligence and determination.
    • Yorgos Lanthimos (08:35): "She's trying to find different ways to approach it as a good, well educated, experienced CEO would..."

• Plemons reflects on Teddy’s resistance to corporate speak, revealing his depth and irritation at empty platitudes.

  • Jesse Plemons (10:08): "I have a similar feeling with this sort of superficial, corporate speak... a lot of words without any sort of meaning, which was extremely maddening for Teddy, who just wants Michelle to say it outright and plain, and, you know, he never got that."

Gender-Swapping the Captive and the Story’s Dynamics

• "Bugonia" is adapted from the Korean film "Save the Green Planet," in which the captive CEO is a man. This version casts Emma Stone.
  • Lanthimos notes it wasn’t his decision, but he sees the shift making the conflict more cerebral and less about machismo.
    • Yorgos Lanthimos (11:47): "Maybe, like, the clash of two men seems to be more about machismo. It adds another interesting layer... has to be fought on a more intellectual level, but... less testosterone. In the end, violence is not avoided."

The Allure of Aliens

• Plemons shares his fascination with how aliens might see humanity—reflecting on our absurdities through their fictional lens.

  • Jesse Plemons (14:08): "I thought so often about [aliens'] perspective of us and what they must think of us and how silly and strange we must seem to them, the games we play to pass time and all of that..."

• Lanthimos, for his part, avoided explicit alien research during filming, only indulging his curiosity afterward.

  • Yorgos Lanthimos (14:56): "I didn't even go too much into it while making the film. I go into it afterwards... I just wanted to stay away from it all and... bringing that [script] to life in the most impactful way."

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Teddy’s Alien “Evidence”

  • "Narrow feet, thin cuticles, slight overbite, semi obtruding earlobes... It's like if you don't cook steaks a lot, you won't know when it's cooked medium rare. But if you cook steaks all the time, you just know." (Teddy, film clip, 01:19)

• On Collaboration

  • "When you work together again, you can go further and explore different directions... there's no fear in making a fool of yourself because you know everybody has your back." (Yorgos Lanthimos, 04:01)

• On Avoiding Corporate Speak

  • "There's a lot of words without any sort of meaning, you know, which was... increasingly maddening for Teddy, who just wants Michelle to say it outright and plain." (Jesse Plemons, 10:49)

• On Gender Dynamics

  • "Maybe... the clash of two men seems to be more about machismo... It adds another interesting layer, the fact that, you know, there's that aspect of it that has to be fought on a more intellectual level, but... less testosterone." (Yorgos Lanthimos, 12:35)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Film Synopsis – 00:09
• Clip: Teddy Explains His Theory – 01:08
• Casting and Archetypes Discussion – 02:31, 06:29
• Collaborative Filmmaking Conversation – 03:39
• Motivations Behind Teddy’s Actions – 05:01
• Michelle’s Characterization – 06:07, 08:02
• Dialogue & Character Depth – 08:35, 09:53
• On Changing the CEO's Gender – 11:34
• Discussion of Aliens and Perspective – 13:59
• Final Thoughts & Close – 15:59

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Tone & Style

The conversation is intellectually curious, slightly irreverent—true to Lanthimos’ style—and keeps a balance of critical analysis and lightly comedic moments. The participants maintain warmth and respect even as they explore topics of absurdity and existential angst, reflective of the film’s own blend of satire and sincerity.

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For Listeners & Fans

If you’re intrigued by movies that ask big questions, subvert expectations, and provide layered performances, this episode offers meaningful context for "Bugonia"—from both the actor's and director's perspectives. Their insights into collaboration, character development, and subversive storytelling enrich the viewing experience.

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Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The movie Begonia from my next guest, Yorgos Lanthimos, gives new meaning to the idea of Karl Marx's theory of alienation, which says people in capitalist societies lack fulfillment and control over their work. So workers become alienated from the very products they make. They their life and labor, their own humanity and the rest of society. All of which sort of takes place in this movie, which stars my other guest, Jesse Plemons, as Teddy, who works at a packaging facility and has fallen down every Internet conspiracy rabbit hole imaginable. He now believes that the CEO of his company is an actual alien, so he kidnaps her with a purpose. Why is Teddy so sure she's an alien? Let's listen to a clip from Begonia where the CO is passed out on in his basement and Teddy is explaining to his cousin how he knows.

[B]

Incredible.

[C]

What is?

[B]

Just the detail. The best I've seen.

[C]

How can you tell she's an alien?

[B]

Well, the signs are obvious. They did a hell of a job on it. But the tells are there. Narrow feet, then cuticles, slight overbite, semi obtruding earlobes. See? High hair density. You won't notice unless you know what you're looking for.

[C]

Yes, I can see it.

[B]

It's like if you don't cook steaks a lot, you won't know when it's cooked medium rare. But if you cook steaks all the time, you just know. You don't even have to cut into it. You just know.

[A]

In the film, Teddy is trying to get his captive to confess before the lunar eclipse in four days, when he believes she'll be able to make contact with her mothership and convince them to save humanity. And since this is a Yorgos Lanthimos movie, you know, the woman has something up her sleeve. Begonia opens in theaters this Friday. I will not give any spoilers. With me now are Jesse Plemons. Hi, Jesse.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

And Yorgos Lanthimos. Nice to talk to you again, Yorgos. Hi, Jesse. What was the first thing you noticed in the script about Teddy when you read it that made him feel more. Less like a conspiracy theorist trope?

[B]

Yeah. Well, first off, I just want to say that was a wonderful introduction. I wish we had you on our press tour. That was great. So thank you for that. What was the first thing that made him feel less. That that was less like a conspiracy theorist trope? Well, for one, you know, it was very hard to argue some of his points. Some of his points I agreed Strongly with. And then some others not so much. So I think that was the brilliant thing that Will Tracy, our screenwriter, was he, he gave both Teddy and Michelle very compelling, very objectively true statements, you know, dialogue.

[A]

Yorgos, this is your fourth film with Emma, your second with Jesse. You've worked with composer Jerkson Fendrick. He scored your last two films. Why do you like to bring people back into your projects? What do you like about working with these collaborators?

[C]

Well, I think, I think it's a special thing, you know, finding someone that.

[B]

You.

[C]

Understand that you can get along and see certain things in a similar way and you build trust. And then on top of that, then when you work together again, you can go further and explore different directions because, you know, there's, as I said, trust there and there's no fear in, you know, making a fool of yourself because, you know, everybody has your back. And when that includes both the crew and the actors, that becomes even a more safe environment because also the actors feel more comfortable with the crew that they know. And everybody, you know, is there for the other and they're all having the same goal. So I think that's, you know, very important to be in tune while, you know, making something so complicated. That is a film.

[A]

He kidnaps the CEO early in the film, Jesse. So I'm not giving anything away. What does Teddy believe he's saving the world from?

[B]

Well, it's sort of multifaceted, but these forces, these, these powers figures at the top, which, you know, it's, it's, it's a little, it's a little confusing in Teddy's case, you know, he, on the one hand, there's a very real world enemy to him, which are these, you know, capitalistic, inhuman humans. But in this particular case, he feels like Michelle is both that and on the real world side of things, but also believes that she is an alien that is seeking to destroy the planet and the world.

[A]

Yeah, Emma's playing this hard charging CEO, Yorgos. And we don't know a lot about her backstory in the beginning, but she has certain behaviors to tell us, like that she's in control. What characteristics or mannerisms did you and Emma choose to tell us, the audience, to show us that she's in control?

[C]

Well, I think that there's, you know, the introduction of the film kind of tries to establish those, you know, characters. And we, we treat them initially almost as archetypes, like it's, they're very recognizable, both Teddy and Dawn in their world and then Michelle in her world. So just from her house and her daily routine, how she wakes up and what she. What are the first things she does and to seeing her at work and the way she speaks and the assurance on her gait and her speech and, you know, just the environment in itself and the way she dresses. And I think, you know, just reinforce the initial idea that you have about her and Teddy and Dawn very similarly. But I think the. The point of the film and the way it's structured is to afterwards kind of challenge those ideas that you have about these people and start revealing layers and layers of these characters personalities and traits and beliefs and actions. So it's important to start, you know, that way and then, you know, progress into a more profound exploration of these characters and their situation.

[A]

I'm speaking to director Yorgos Lanthimos and actor Jesse Plemons about their new movie, Begonia. It hits theaters this Friday. It's so interesting when she's captured. She keeps. Michelle keeps saying phrases like, let's have a dialogue to Teddy. First of all, that sounds like almost. It could be human or it could be alien. It can go either way. That way she talks to him. How is she talking to him, Yorgos? Is it patronizing? Is it maternal when she's saying let's have a dialogue?

[C]

I think she's trying to find different ways to approach it as, you know, a good, well educated experience CEO would like. She's trying to see, like, she's trying one way, you know, in the beginning she's, you know, very assertive and. And try to. Tries to intimidate them. Then she realizes that, you know, Teddy might be not so stupid as he thought initially and is, you know, well researched and, you know, educated and, you know, has gone through a lot and it's just not some crazy person or, yeah, crazy, but with a lot of tools. So she. She tries a different way and, you know, that keeps happening and as this evolves and Teddy kind of does the same. Like, they're always trying to measure each other and their reactions and see, try to achieve the goal that they have in mind, which is different, at least seemingly is a different goal that they have. So they try to find different ways to achieve that.

[A]

Yeah. Jesse and Michelle asked to have a dialogue with Teddy. He said, this isn't Death of a Salesman. Why was that important for us to know that he knows who Arthur Miller is? And how would you describe the depth of Teddy's character?

[B]

Well, first off, I mean, again, there were certain. Certain lines that resonated with me. You know, I have a similar Feeling with this sort of superficial, you know, corporate speak.

[A]

Let's unpack that. Right. And all those kind of things.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, let me talk about my feelings. No, I don't know. I just find it disingenuous. And I guess that that's the. The. The.

[C]

The.

[B]

The main part of it is, I think, you know, there's a.

[C]

There's a.

[B]

There's a fear. I. I probably haven't myself. Of getting to the heart of the matter. And so he's. There's a lot of beating around the bush, a lot of words without any sort of meaning, you know, which was. Was extremely, increasingly maddening for. For Teddy, who just wants Michelle to. To say it. To say it outright and plain. And, you know, he never. He never got that. What was the second part of that?

[A]

No, that was a good answer.

[B]

Okay, that was a good answer.

[A]

It reminds me, I think it was Ila Wiesel said, don't say income inequality. Just say a hungry child, because that's.

[B]

What you only mean. Yeah.

[A]

You know, this is based on a Korean movie, Save the. Save the Green Planet. Yorgos. Now, the CEO in that is a man who's captured. Yes.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

So what does making the Captive a woman versus a man do to the story?

[C]

Well, to be honest, I wasn't that involved because it was an early decision that Will Tracy made with Ari Aster and Laris Knudsen that they developed the screenplay together based on that film. I've heard Will talk about it a little bit, but he also can't be very specific how that happened and remember why that happened. To me, it was just like a great opportunity to work with Emma again. So as soon as I read it and I was very excited, it was like, oh, that's a great part for her. And here we go. You know, it's one thing you can very easily say is, like, it's not, you know, it's not very common to. To see, you know, women in those kind of. I mean, in film and depending on the culture, in reality as well, I guess it becomes a little bit more frequent in Western culture. So. Yeah, I honestly don't have anything really important to say around it. It was just like a decision that was made and kind of change the dynamic to be maybe more intellectual in a way, and more cerebral. Maybe I'm just now thinking out loud, you know, maybe like the clash of two men seems to be more, you know, about machismo, maybe. I don't know. Like, I think it adds another interesting layer the fact that, you know, there's that aspect of it that has to be fought on a, on a more intellectual level, but, you know, less testosterone.

[A]

Filled, in a way.

[C]

Yeah. In the end, violence, I guess, is not avoided.

[A]

What makes aliens interesting to you, Jesse, as you were thinking about this role, because you do have to believe that she's an alien.

[B]

Yeah, well, many things. But in my sort of private musings, as I was obsessing over the script and the part and the themes and all, I thought so often about their perspective of us and what they must think of us and how silly and strange we must seem to them, the games we play to pass time and all of that. I. Yeah, but many, many things.

[A]

Yorgos, did you think of it much, how aliens would, would view the world?

[C]

Not really. And to be honest, I wasn't really. I didn't even go too much into it while making the film. I go into it afterwards. Really made the film? Yeah. Like, I didn't want to get too tangled up in what, you know, what's, what's the current, like, whatever trend around it and what, you know, people say or believe. So I, I felt that there was like a very strong script and material and I wanted to focus on, you know, bringing that to life in the most impactful way. So I just wanted to stay away from it all and. But then, you know, I started, you know, listening to all these podcasts, reading, you know, all these, oh, you went.

[B]

Down a rabbit hole.

[C]

Theories and rabbit holes and like watching documentaries about, like the, the actual evidence that we might have. Yeah, this is interesting, to say the least.

[A]

The name of the film is Begonia. It'll hit theaters this Friday. I've been speaking to director Yorgos Lanthimos and actor Jesse Plemons. Thanks for being with us.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for having us.

[D]

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