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All Of It with Alison Stewart
Jonathan Van Ness on 'Sex Education for Adults' Comedy Special
00:25:01
Jonathan Van Ness pledges to provide sex ed to adults in their first standup comedy special, "Fun & Slutty."
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WNYC Studios
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it from wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Jonathan Van Ness is a podcast host, author, a TV host, and now a teacher by way of comedy. Jonathan has a new comedy special out tomorrow called Fun and Slutty. It's framed as, quote, a sex ed class for adults, along with some other lessons too. They call themselves Professor Jonathan Van Nasty and they insist on a shame free zone, inviting audience members to share their wildest sex stories before sharing their own personal confessions, including some carnal feelings about anti LGBT lawmakers, which gets a laugh. And living with hiv, which gets an uncomfortable laugh. At least before the Professor Nasty explains why it's important to laugh at the things that make us cry. Jonathan Van Ness is in studio now. Thank you for coming in on this cold day.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Thank you so much for having me. Honey, we got to keep it warm.
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Alison Stewart
You say that people push back against the word slutty. Why did you want to center around that word and the idea behind it?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, I think that so much of the sex, the negative views that we have around sex are really based in misogyny, based in this, like, this opposition to, like, women having power, control over their bodies, genderqueer people having power and control over their bodies. And so I just thought, how can I let people know that I can use that? How can I let people know? Yeah, how can I let people know that? That you can. That you can. That slutty doesn't have to only mean one thing. And it doesn't. I mean, it can speak to sexual freedom, but it also can speak to just like really loving something passionately, whether that's sexual or not. So I thought that's something really important that women should know because they don't need to be afra of owning their. Their love of things.
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Alison Stewart
It's so funny because it started on your Instagram. I follow you on Instagram and these funny little, I don't know, videos would show up. Would you explain to people the background of Slutty?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yeah, I just this one day I was in my house and this is actually part of the origin story of the special, which I talk about in the special. I was minding my own business and Much like Goldie Hawn, I get my best. Goldie Hawn's character in First Wives Club, I get my best ideas after having done cardio. So I just finished up a little work and I went into the mirror, and I don't know if it was the holy spirit or Mother Nature or my mental health, but it just said, get the phone and go to the mirror. And next thing I knew, I said, you're a hot slut. And that's how my, like, affirmation Mondays were kind of born. And I think that's where I really realized how many people had a really negative view and idea of just the word slut.
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Alison Stewart
So you sort of mentioned tongue in cheek that slutty is because we haven't had good sex yet, basically. So what kind of teachable moments did you want to present to us out of the word slutty?
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Jonathan Van Ness
I mean, I think really so much that it, that we are allowed to be passionate about so many different things and we can be multifaceted people. And most importantly, that, like, you don't have to change yourself to be loved by other people. So I think that's really what I, what I want people to know. And just the rigidity around with which we view gender, the way we view our ability to express our gender. I really wanted people to sit with that a little bit. We go in there pretty hard in the special. So I think that's. And I also, I think we need more comedians. I just, I speak so often about how much I look up to Margaret Cho, Nikki Glaser, Nikki Laser more contemporarily, but like Lisa Lampanelli, Wanda Sykes, like people I grew up watching and loving so much. But I don' I don't ever remember seeing someone necessarily like me speak to sex or speak to living with HIV or living or just, you know, being in the world the way that I have. So I hope that I can be a possibility model for other people that have never seen themselves and be like, oh, my gosh, I can. I can do that.
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Alison Stewart
It was filmed as part of a 2023 tour of this show. What part do you think have really held up from your 2023 show and what, you know, what you thought? No, that's not necessarily going to go in this show.
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Jonathan Van Ness
There was a few things that hit the editing room floor. But I think I, if anything, I was really thinking this morning after what, you know, President Trump and Vice President Vance doesn't feel better coming out of my mouth now, you know, saying that, you know, defining biological sex is like man and woman, when we know that up to 2% of people. And I just did the math this morning, so I was curious. That's 3.3 million people. Or wait, no, it's 3.6. It's a. It's. Or six point something, whatever. I'm not a mathematician. I'm a hairdresser. But the point is 2% of 330 million people is a lot. And that's how many millions of people are living with a myriad of intersex conditions. Like my friend Alicia Roth Weigel, who I was just texting with on the way over here. I put her. I was talking about her on my Insta stories yesterday. But even biologically, there's not two sexes. There are a large amount of people who live within the spectrum of a biological sex, let alone gender expression, which it just seems that some folks will not wrap them their head around. That's two different things. We're not trying to, like, put those in the same breath. Biological sex, of course, one thing, and then gender expression is a different thing. So sex and gender aren't the same thing, which is okay. But I think we're gonna have to dig deep for the patients in the next four years. And I think that comedy is a really important tool for us to exercise our patience and our freedom of expression. So I shall be utilizing that tool a lot in the next four years.
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Alison Stewart
What did you learn from touring with this show that audiences are willing to accept? And then maybe, maybe they won't accept it, but it takes them longer to get there.
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Jonathan Van Ness
I did a bit in the show where I and I talk about it in this special. Just like Christian absolutism, Christian nationalism. That part I can definitely feel people squirm when all of a sudden, like, I'm referring to myself as like a. You know, I'm like, as someone who looks like a 17th century Italian Jesus, I can just say that he would not like how you guys are acting. And when I start to, like, kind of poke a little bit of fun, like some Christian ideals, then it's like, I definitely see some squirms. But I think that it's important for people to, like, have a mirror reflected to them. Because I grew up in the church. I grew up, like, acolyting every Sunday. I went to like, a Christian sports camp for like two weeks every summer, honey, if you can believe. And so I think I have a really interesting perspective. Having come where I came from and then going to where I am now. I do think that I have an Interesting perspective that resonates with so many people.
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Alison Stewart
And people should read about that in your biography.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yes, honey. Over the top. Available at all bookstores.
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Alison Stewart
Now we're talking with Jonathan Van Ness about their new special, fun and a shame free hour of confessional comedy and sex education. You did not get at school, so you put on your hat. Professor Jonathan Van Nasty, can you share one of your rules for the class about shame?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, the one you can test.
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Alison Stewart
The one you can talk about.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Exactly. No, exactly. I mean, I think the thing about shame is. Is according to my therapist, it's like if someone knew this thing about me, then they wouldn't love me anymore. That's what shame is. And we all have shame about. Everyone can have shame about so many different things. And I think that knowing that makes it so much easier to live that because no one is shame free. And I think that the sooner that we can learn to, like, accept, forgive, and love ourselves through whatever the shame that we have, the more fully we can, like, enjoy this, like, very finite time that we get to have in the world. And I just think shame holds us back from so many different things, and I think that's a really universal experience. But, honey, I don't want to have that shame holding me back anymore.
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Alison Stewart
I have to ask this. You are in this fabulous dress. It's spangly, it's sparkly, and you are wearing high heels. Why do you like performing in heels? I made them all go away. That was my 2025 resolution. I'm done with heels. And I'm like, they are wearing heels for this entire special.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, okay, look. So I do prefer a chunkier heel. That was like a very unforgiving stiletto, but.
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Alison Stewart
It really was.
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Jonathan Van Ness
But look, I'm not Mother Nature, and. But I do. I do appreciate. I mean, that dress and that shoe, the color story, for me, those weren't made by the same company. This was like a Bottega shoe with a sta. Dress. And they. But the color. They were just talking to each other. That aquamarine. Addison Rae, honey, she's having her moment. Give me that aquamarine. I just. I was obsessed. Need it, Must have it. And I just. I love. I loved that look. Thanks for noticing, btw. But yeah, you know what? Also too. Not to name drop, but I will just say this. When I got to interview and, like, spend time with Nancy Pelosi, Speaker Emera Emer. How do I say her new title? Emmer. Emmer. Emer. Whatever. Speaker Pelosi. I love her fierce title. She very famously in The Capitol only wore heels. I was wearing these heels in 2018, where I thought my, like, I thought I was, like, trailing, like, a line of blood behind me in, like, the Capitol. And so I was like, if Speaker Pelosi can do this in heels all day, every day and just do what she has done in heels, I'm not gonna complain about heels. So I just. But then also, I can hear the showrunner of Queer Eyes voice in my head being like, oh, really? Cause she's seen me crawl off minia carpet. The second I get past, like, the press, like, the little pictures, I'm like, oh, my God, my bunions. I feel them, like, pounding in my third eye, like, my temple.
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Alison Stewart
I thought that you dropped it. Like, it's hot in those heels. On. It was amazing.
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Jonathan Van Ness
I did. I'm a very acrobatic person. You know, I don't open my show with gymnastics anymore, but I still do some acrobatic moments in heels.
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Alison Stewart
You warm up the crowd with a bit of confessional. Like, tell us your interesting story. Did people initially, initially talk to you about their stories, or did you ever really have to draw them out?
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Jonathan Van Ness
It really depended on the place. But I have to say, not that you asked, but I'm going to. I'll say this. Belfast, North Ireland, of every place I ever went, had the most amazing responses and just really, really brought it. And I just think European crowds really, really brought the. Really brought the heat in a way that talk about lacking shame. It was amazing. We were really. Oh, also, though, Portland, Oregon, now that I think about it. Portland, Oregon. I actually just got chills on my triceps and my thighs from thinking about this. One answer that we got over there in Portland, Oregon. But it was amazing. If you were there, you will remember. And if you're listening to this right now from Portland, Oregon, you'll be like, wow. Yeah, I remember that.
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Alison Stewart
I remember that.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Think about it.
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Alison Stewart
Once a week, you filmed this in Austin, Texas. Austin is often this little blue spot in this big red state of Texas. How important was it to shoot it in Austin?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, it was really. I lived there. Yeah. I've lived there for almost five years. I went there for Queer Eye season six, and then I never left. It was really important. I feel like an adopted, like, adult child of Austin. Like, it really feels like kind of it's where I've been my home for the last five years. And I also think that considering that the state legislators made a really, you know, intense point of trying to prevent people from performing in dresses on Stage, I was like, honey, let me do this here. But, yeah, I think it was important. I love Austin. I also love emos and the people in Austin. And I also just think, you know, not to make everything political, but it's hard. This election that we just had, like, it had turnout that was like around 2016 numbers. It wasn't that this mandate was the biggest mandate that anybody's ever had, but I just think that rural, queer people in rural spaces, queer people in red states so often get forgot about and looked over and not seen and not celebrated. I really think about that when I'm touring. I, like, try to go to different places. I try to get people in because queer people and rural in red states are like, they are like some of the most amazing people doing the most, and they deserve to be entertained, honey.
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Alison Stewart
And you are also very much saying, I'm a patriot in this show. What made you stand in your high heels and say I'm a patriot?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, I've been thinking about this idea so much lately, and I don't necessarily say this in the special, but I've been thinking about a lot and writing about a lot, which is, I think, you know, traditionally when you think about masculinity, it's like, it's bravery. It's this ability to, like, stand for what you believe in. It's this, you know, ability to be very strong. The strength of my ankles and those heels is much larger than I think. I don't think I walked down the street in a little town called Hannibal, Missouri, at 16 years old in heels, a mini red dress and a scarf tied around my head because I didn't have, like, long hair. And I really wanted to give you that, like, long haired fantasy. And I got chased out of the street, like back into this minivan that I had, like, taken with my grandma to, like, get to Hannibal to a place where I could, like, walked out or I thought I walked down the street. And the bravery that that took is the bravery that it takes me anytime to wear my. To wear what I wear, be who I am, whether that's on a red carpet, whether that's on a stage. Like genderqueer people, trans people, non binary people, we are subjected to violence at a rate that's much higher than other people. And I think especially living in a place like Texas, I. When I go to a place, when I dress how I want to dress, I look for the exits. Yeah, I don't walk into a place. I know. I just think a lot of people don't necessarily A lot of people have different experiences that may lead them to have that reaction to being in, like, a large group. But I think that gender queer people and trans people, non binary people, we all have that experience in a different way than other people do. So I think it's really important for us to take up space, speak our truth, do it. Do it where we're gonna do it. And I forgot what your original question was.
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Alison Stewart
Why do you consider yourself a patriot?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Oh, yeah, that's very brave. That's very brave. I think it's very brave. And I think it's more the way that we take up space, I think is more traditionally masculine on the inside. The bravery or resilience, which are qualities that are much more associated I with masculinity than we think about them as femininity.
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Alison Stewart
Let's talk about that masculinity part, because you bring this up in the special, that you are able to compartmentalize, especially when it comes to sex or to attractiveness. And it's sort of a funny point in the show, but you say there are certain Republican legislators that you find attractive. Josh Hawley, Dan Crenshaw.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Oh.
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Alison Stewart
Why did you want that sentiment, that sense that you could split the difference? Well, people don't understand that.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, I'm not used to talking about this when the sun's awake or, like, when the sun's up. Who says that sun's awake? Usually when I do that joke, it's, you know, it's nighttime. The people have been.
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Alison Stewart
Did we turn the lights down?
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Jonathan Van Ness
It made more sense at night. Yeah, it makes more sense at nighttime. It's worse during the day. Yeah, I mean, I think. I don't know. I come from a cornfield. Like, I just, you know, it was Slim Pickens where I come from. So, like, if you weren't gonna have crushes on, like, the Republicans, who were you gonna have crushes on? So I just.
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Alison Stewart
Okay.
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Jonathan Van Ness
You know. But I do have. I say it in the special. It's like the last vestige of the patriarchy is my uncanny ability to completely separate someone's personality from their physical form. And so, yes, I think Josh Hawley's Adam's apple is. I like it. And, yeah, Mitt Romney stole my heart in 2002 at the Salt Lake Games. Never gave it back. I have always thought he was cute. It's gotten me on in trouble in Twitter several times. I don't know.
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Alison Stewart
It just is.
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Jonathan Van Ness
It just. I can't help it. It is what it is.
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Alison Stewart
It just. It just is. Yeah, that's okay.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
We're talking with Jonathan Van Ness about their new special, Fun and a Shame free hour of confessional comedy and sex education you couldn't get in school. Let's talk about the algorithm. You talk about that in social media. You spent a lot of time on social media. When did you realize that the algorithm was altering? Maybe even the way you looked at things? Let me turn the lights back up.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Oh, no, of course I like it. It's moody. No, no, no. Turn it up. Turn it up Queen. Turn it up. It's your world. I'm just living in it. Well, you know, I think I wrote this joke, and I was doing this joke over the last, like, year and a half. Like, as I did this a lot in 20, I think I started fun and slutty and, like, the end of 2022 or the beginning of 2023. And I toured it all the way through, like, October, November of last year. Like, I was.
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Alison Stewart
Wow, you really worked.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yeah, I did a long time. And I'm about to go on my next hour, which is Hot and Healed Tour, which I'm so excited about this. This new work is, like, I've really been processing my anger in healthy ways, but. But I think that my ADHD's rampant today. You have to tell me again, I.
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Alison Stewart
Was asking about when you started realizing the algorithm was maybe you.
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Jonathan Van Ness
When I was, like, spending. When I really got into TikTok, and I was like, where did two and a half hours go?
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Alison Stewart
Scary, isn't it?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yeah. I mean, I really think the TikTok algorithm knows me better than I know myself. My husband will do this thing where, like, I'll be on TikTok and he'll come up to me and be like, our dog just turned into a dragon and flew out of the suitcase. And I'm. And they'll be like, yeah, I'll be up in three minutes. Like, the chicken sounds amazing. And he's like, you're not here with me. Like, what's going on? Like, talk to me. So, yeah, it really can pull your.
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Alison Stewart
Attention, but there's something about it that draws you in. What do you think it is that it draws you in? Is it sort of confirm. Is it confirming what you already think? Is it. I'm curious. What do you think it is?
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Jonathan Van Ness
I think it's like, well, my hypothesis in the special. Well, I don't want to give away too many spoilers, you guys, but I'll just say this. If the algorithm is always watching. So if you finish that type of content and you don't go off of it, it's going to show you more content like that. If you don't engage with that content for very long and it knows that, like you don't like that, it's not going to show you more stuff like that. Because the algorithm's whole deal is to like keep you there as long as possible. Whether it's Instagram algorithm or, you know, TikTok, wherever, like they want to keep you on that app as long as possible. So that's everything. The way that it's engineered, the way that I understand it. Don't cover me, Mark. I love every new chain and everything. You know, like, you know, not. I mean, I love your new chain. This is radio, you know, so I do. But yeah, I just think the algorithms really. I don't. Not to sound qanon, but I do think that this is the case because their money is in their average. It's how long can you be on these apps?
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Alison Stewart
What has it shown you that you didn't really realize about yourself?
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Jonathan Van Ness
I'm really afraid of animals getting eaten by other animals.
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Alison Stewart
Oh, no.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Yeah, that's like, my algorithm is really show. It's like giving me like Discovery Channel vibes.
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Alison Stewart
Like means you've watched something you're not.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Like, I don't want to see. Are they gonna get away? I just want the zebra to be okay. I want the zebra to get away.
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Alison Stewart
But you know that.
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Jonathan Van Ness
And it's similar with hair color, you guys. Like, sometimes I see some real travesties with hair color that feels like Discovery Channel. Like, I just like these. The. You know, I'm just like, oh my gosh, what's happening over there? It's a lot of beauty. It's a lot of like animal stuff. Recently on my TikTok algorithm, you guys, now that it's come back, okay, this, like, this is a lot but it's. There's no cussing involved. It's this like Spanish speaking, like ear health lab where all they're doing is like these de ear flushes. Like I don't know where, but they're everyone speaking Spanish and just like the stuff coming out of these people's ears is so next level. So last night it was that and then the next video was like this tutorial by Michaela Nagira about like how to do like some makeup application. I was just like, wow, like my algorithm is giving you like external beauty, internal ear wax health. Like I just don't even know what the matter is.
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Alison Stewart
I'm trying to figure out what? That. What's the. What's the area?
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Jonathan Van Ness
I don't know.
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Alison Stewart
I don't know.
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Jonathan Van Ness
I've been trying to figure it out for 37 years.
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Alison Stewart
I did want to talk about in the show, and you've talked about it personally, is you talk about rehab, which I didn't see coming. It came out and got me in the show. It's like, we're going, we're going, we're going, whoa, he's really going. Deep into your rehab life. Why was that important that you wanted to include that in this show, which is really funny and really sexy, and then this sort of deep part about rehab.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, I just think that story's so funny.
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Alison Stewart
You think it's funny?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, kind of the. I mean, how many people, like, have to go to, like, a blindfolded rope maze in the middle of Tennessee?
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Alison Stewart
That's true.
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Jonathan Van Ness
I mean, let's talk about spoilers. Like, you gotta. You gotta see what happens. No, I think that. Look, I think. I don't know why I always turn into a politician when I talk about rehab. Look, I know that's funny. I think rehab, and I think rehab is a really universal thing that I went through. And I also think that one thing that I talk about so much in the special is asking for help.
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Alison Stewart
Yes.
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Jonathan Van Ness
And I think both in the salon and in rehab are, like, two places in my life where I've, like, really learned, like, how to ask for help. Like, and I think without both, like, you know, therapeutic environments like rehab and the relationship that I have with my therapist who, like, without I would not be where I am, and without the salon, like, I would not have made it. Like, I wouldn't have made it through any of the stuff that I've been through. And it was really the community of both of those spaces. I mean, there's a few people from both of my rehabs who I still talk to that have been some of the most important people to me in my life. So I just think I got so much health and just so much healing out of it. And so I think that's kind of why I like to talk about it. And also, the story really is just hilarious.
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Alison Stewart
Why didn't you ask for help before?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Because I think we're taught to never ask for. Especially, like, in. At least in the Midwest, it's like, don't ask for help. Don't stick out. Like, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get it together, and just don't be a nuisance. And I think asking for help always made Me feel like I was weak or like I shouldn't need to ask for help in the first place.
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Alison Stewart
You also talk about HIV in the show. Why do you think it's important for HIV in particular to find. You find humor in it? Why is it important to find humor in something that's serious?
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Jonathan Van Ness
Well, I think part of stigma. I think stigma and shame are very closely related.
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Alison Stewart
Oh, interesting.
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Jonathan Van Ness
And I think that shame thrives in secret and in darkness and, like, what can't be exposed to light. Like, you can't, like, heal through it. So I think that's. That's, like, one aspect of it. Like, you gotta expose everything to light. Cause also, I mean, as scared as I was of hiv and I'm not like. I mean, it's not amazing, but I also, like, I take a pill once a day. I feel amazing. I've never been cuter. The life expectancy of someone who's been diagnosed with HIV, and this was in 2012, is 50 to 75 years. It's not a terminal illness. This is like a chronic disease that was, you know, very scary one that we've made so much progress on. But we need to keep talking about it. I think another thing that we need to keep talking about is the Supreme Court literally just took up a case that allows this, like, Texas employer that, like, doesn't want to provide PREP to their employees through the Affordable Care act because they think that providing prep promotes homosexual behavior. And what I'm so scared for these Christians to know. I don't know if they know this in Texas, but bisexual people exist and women, heterosexual women have also enjoyed the benefits of access to prep. Like new HIV admit. New HIV infections have gone down so much because of prep. And limiting access to it is a literal threat to public health. And there's no reason that, like, it's just. It's just so crazy. And I just. I just hope women know that this is happening. And HIV doesn't care if you're straight. It doesn't care if you're gay. It doesn't care your gender. It doesn't give a. It doesn't care about. Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh, did I just say it? Oh, I almost said you could feel it coming. I almost said the S word, you guys. I'm so glad I didn't. But so. Oh, my God. Thank God. But, yeah, it doesn't care. And so we just. I want everyone to know that, because I just. I'm really passionate about HIV prevention and HIV awareness. And so.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah, well, that's the kind of sex education you should get at school, but you don't. But you can get it from watching Fun and Slutty on Veeps. On Veeps with Jonathan Van Ness. Your ring's beautiful, by the way.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Thank you so much.
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Alison Stewart
Look at that.
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Jonathan Van Ness
I know. I'm obsessed.
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Alison Stewart
Do you do that thing where you kind of like, pretend I have to go over there. I saw that our guest was Jonathan Van Ness. We were talking about their new Fun and Slutty special on Veep. Thank you so much for coming to our studio. Really appreciate it. It's such a cold day. It's nice to see you in person.
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Jonathan Van Ness
Thanks so much for having me.
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