Katie Gavin of MUNA Performs Live From Her Debut Solo Album

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: "Katie Gavin of MUNA Performs Live From Her Debut Solo Album"

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
• Description: ALL OF IT is a show about culture and its consumers, aiming to engage thinkers, doers, makers, and creators in discussions about the what and why of their work. The show fosters a diverse community, reflecting the vibrant culture of New York City.

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Introduction

In this episode of ALL OF IT, host Alison Stewart welcomes Katie Gavin, the talented lead singer of MUNA, to discuss her debut solo album, "What a Relief." Known for hits like "Silk Chiffon" and touring with Taylor Swift, Katie ventures into a more stripped-back, acoustic sound with her solo project, delving into the multifaceted theme of love.

Background on Katie Gavin and MUNA

Katie Gavin has been at the forefront of MUNA's success, contributing significantly to the band's breakout moments over the past few years. Her transition to a solo artist marks a new chapter, allowing her to explore personal narratives and introspective songwriting.

Debut Solo Album: "What a Relief"

Katie introduces her solo debut, "What a Relief," described as a confessional and acoustic album. Alison highlights Pitchfork’s review, stating the album delivers “introspective self-portraits whose sound calls back to Gavin's youth and stories, rich with the kind of empathy that's only gained over time” (01:30). The core theme revolves around love in its various manifestations—from romantic highs and the depths of heartbreak to the unconditional love for a pet and familial bonds.

Live Performance: "Casual Drug Use"

The episode features a live performance of Katie's song "Casual Drug Use" at Studio 5. Alison notes, "That was actually written about a 2016 breakup" (05:00), underscoring the personal nature of Katie's music. Katie elaborates:

"It was written while I was going through a 2016 breakup, and it was about some real-life experiences related to that." (05:13)

Process of Creating the Solo Album

Katie discusses the inception of her solo project, noting that the initial track was intended for MUNA but didn’t align with the band's vision. The Pandemic period became a pivotal time for her creativity:

"It kind of happened during the Pandemic... Muna got dropped in 2020 from RCA and we got re-signed to Phoebe Bridger's label... she said, I would like to put out this record as well." (05:47)

Being dropped by RCA led MUNA to an existential reflection, ultimately strengthening their focus and reaffirming their commitment to their community.

Themes and Inspirations

The album's title, "What a Relief," encapsulates the relief Katie feels in taking accountability for her flaws and embracing agency over her personal growth:

"It's like, what a relief to know that some of this was my fault and I'm not a victim after all. It's the idea of taking accountability... there's possibility to change." (07:22)

Katie draws inspiration from the Lilith Fair era, emphasizing the importance of introspective songwriting and community support among female and queer artists:

"There's so much brilliant songwriting... seeing women and queer people as just the subjects in their own lives... the community has been really important to me as an artist." (08:15)

Collaborations and Production

Katie highlights her collaboration with fellow artist Nana Adoja (Mitski) on the track "As Good As It Gets," a duet suggested by Phoebe Bridgers. She praises her producer Tony Berg for pushing her to explore unconventional songwriting structures:

"He really pushes you to make interesting choices that serve the song... he pushes me outside of the box a little bit." (14:07)

Katie reflects on her growth in advocating for her creative vision, ensuring her songs remain true to her instincts despite external feedback.

Songwriting and Personal Growth

Katie differentiates her songwriting approach between MUNA and her solo work. While MUNA remains her primary creative outlet, her solo songs often embody "B-sides" or rejected tracks that allow her to experiment and express personal narratives without the band's framework:

"I'm constantly writing for Muna... if a song doesn't feel right for them, it goes to me. These are B sides... this is a cherry on top." (15:48)

Writing serves as a therapeutic tool for Katie, helping her process emotions and connect with others through shared experiences. The song "Sweet Abbey Girl" exemplifies this, written during a period of grief after adopting and losing a pet:

"I wrote that song while I was really grieving. It helps me create, share, and talk about those feelings with other people." (16:43)

Directing Music Videos

Expanding her creative repertoire, Katie has directed music videos for tracks like "Casual Drug Use" and "Aftertaste." Collaborating with photographer and director Alexa Vicious, Katie enjoys the process of bringing her detailed visual fantasies to life:

"I’ve been having detailed fantasies to pop songs since I was 8, so directing is not that hard for me." (18:02)

Live Performances and Interaction

Performing solo has offered Katie a new dynamic with her audience. Without the barriers of in-ear monitors, she experiences a more intimate connection, engaging in conversations throughout her shows. Her recent performance at the Bowery Ballroom, now sold out, features collaborations like the live duet with Nana Adoja.

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Katie shares her pride in tracks like "Inconsolable" and "The Baton," highlighting her development as a fiddle player and her willingness to embrace new musical ventures. Alison thanks Katie and Nana Adoja for their participation, celebrating the release of "What a Relief."

"Thank you for having us... The new record is called what a Relief." (24:49)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "What a relief to know that some of this was my fault and I'm not a victim after all." — Katie Gavin (07:22)
• "There's so much brilliant songwriting... seeing women and queer people as just the subjects in their own lives." — Katie Gavin (08:15)
• "He really pushes you to make interesting choices that serve the song." — Katie Gavin (14:07)
• "I'm constantly writing for Muna... These are B sides. This is a cherry on top." — Katie Gavin (15:48)
• "I wrote that song while I was really grieving. It helps me create, share, and talk about those feelings with other people." — Katie Gavin (16:43)

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Final Thoughts

Katie Gavin's solo debut, "What a Relief," offers a heartfelt exploration of love and personal accountability through an acoustic lens. Her collaboration with influential artists and producers, coupled with her introspective songwriting, marks a significant evolution from her work with MUNA. This episode of ALL OF IT provides listeners with an intimate glimpse into Katie's creative journey, underscored by live performances and candid discussions about her growth as an artist.

Transcript

[WNYC Studios]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Katie Gavin is best known as the lead singer of Muna, who've had a breakout few years, including the hit song Silk Chiffon and the Turingruth, touring with Taylor Swift. But now Katie is striking out on her own and her debut solo album is called what a Relief. The album is stripped back, it's acoustic, and it has a confessional feel. While the record covers a lot of different topics and themes, the core of it seems to be love. The highs of love, the lows of heartbreak, the love of a dog, the love of a mother for her daughter, and the everyday romance of doing life things together, even though every moment doesn't feel exciting. In their review, Pitchfork says the album is full of introspective self portraits whose sound calls back to Gavin's youth and stories, rich with the kind of empathy that's only gained over time. What a Relief is out now. Katie Gavin is performing tonight at the Bowery Ballroom. But first, she's joining us live in Studio 5. It is really nice to see you.

[Katie Gavin]

So good to see you. Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Will you kick things off with a song for us?

[Katie Gavin]

Absolutely.

[Alison Stewart]

What are we going to hear?

[Katie Gavin]

We're going to do a song called Casual Drug Use. Here we go.

[Nana Adoja]

She's got plastic flowers on her dashboard and her wardrobe in her trunk. I'm not sleeping tonight. I know, I know. I did not need that last one on San Vicente. I was apprehensive about taking this trip. Some days you do your best. Some days you do what gets you out of bed. She was smiling and I was thinking it's a little unnerving how fast I fall back into fixing my issues with casual drug use. But I'm not gonna lose it. Cause we're not going to get wherever we're right this moment. I know she had a reason that she wanted to go find a mountain. I don't feel any kind of need to ask her. Cause I've got a good one. I'm just happy she's around. When I start thinking it's a little how fast I fall back in to fixing my issues with casual drug use. But I'm not going to lose it. Cause we're not going to get wherever we're going right this moment. And I. I feel like nothing is ruined. I feel like nothing. We were looking over across the freeway downtown. She said, sometimes it's harder to come back home than to come down. And for some strange reason, I Found that very hysterical. And I thought, maybe I'll change tomorrow, but if I don't. II feel like it's a little unlearned. How fast I fall back in to fixing my issues with casual drug use. But I'm not gonna lose it. Cause we're not going to get wherever we're going right this moment. I feel like nothing is ruined. I feel like nothing is.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Katie Gavin with a live performance. Casual drug use. So just in case the Internet's wrong, but I'm going to. That. That was actually written about a 2016 breakup. Yeah, it was.

[Katie Gavin]

It was written while I was going through a 2016 breakup, and. And it was written about some. Some real life experiences related to that.

[Alison Stewart]

Now, you wrote the song. Was it for you to put on a solo album sometime, Somewhere, or was it for Moona?

[Katie Gavin]

No, actually, the original version I. I made on a session on Ableton Live, and it was, like, meant to be a Muna song, and it just didn't fit in the world of that record, so I kind of kept it in my back pocket. And then when I realized I was making a solo record, it. It kind of came back out on the table.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you know it was time to make a solo record?

[Katie Gavin]

It kind of happened during the Pandemic. I was talking to a few friends and songwriters of mine. It started with two friends of mine. Eric Radloff, who has a project called Okudoxage, Try and spell that if you can, and my friend Scott Heiner. And when the Pandemic hit, we just didn't have that much else to do. And they really loved these songs and said, what if we just started arranging them? And then Muna got dropped in 2020 from RCA and we got re signed to Phoebe Bridger's label, and I was working on these songs, so I showed them to her, and she said, I would like to put out this record as well.

[Alison Stewart]

What did it feel like when you got dropped?

[Katie Gavin]

You know what? We were kind of already having an existential crisis as a band and just as, like. Like queers in our late 20s, I think, you know, as you do. But it. I think it really made us, like, refocus on why we do this and whether it felt right for us to, you know, keep going. And it also put us in touch with the fact that we have so many people in our community who believe in us. So, like, we were just. We were very lucky that, you know, leaving a major label, we had other people who wanted to continue to support us and work with us. But I think it, like, refocused us as a band.

[Alison Stewart]

What does the title mean? What a relief.

[Katie Gavin]

What a relief. It's on. It's a song. It's in a song that we're not playing today called Keep Walking. But the larger line is, like, what a relief to know that some of this was my fault and I'm not a victim after all. It's kind of this idea of, like, actually taking accountability for your own, like, flaws and things that you're working on is a relief because it means that you have agency and there's, like, possibility to change. But I also just thought it sounded good.

[Alison Stewart]

What a relief.

[Katie Gavin]

What a relief.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Katie Gove, and we're talking about her new album. What a relief. I read that this was Lilith Fair core. That's sort of the vibe of the record.

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

So when you think about Lilith Fair.

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What adjectives would you use to describe the artist who played at Lilith Fair? I remember it well.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah. I think they. I mean, I think they're my favorite musicians. And there's so much brilliant songwriting going on there. There's so much introspection. And I think about the importance, for me of seeing women and queer people, like, seeing themselves as just the subjects in their own lives and writing songs that are about their own kind of, like, internal worlds. So. And I also think about the community. I remember, like, watching the documentary and hearing about the Indigo Girls bringing everybody together and trying to encourage, like, collaboration on the road. And that has been really important to me as an artist and has, like, kept me going. So it was a good time. Yeah. Oh, my God, I wish I was there. We would like. I want to do it again. I think we should do it again.

[Alison Stewart]

Why not? Yeah, why not? Is there any song from that period, that Lilith Fair period that really sings to you?

[Katie Gavin]

I think it would probably be closer to fine. The Indigo Girl song is really important to me. I got to sing it with them at the Greek in September, which was amazing. And I also have to give a shout out to Sarah. Building a Mystery was like my. On Spotify wrapped. It was like my top listened to song for, like, a couple of years. Yeah. I kind of just eternally. I'm staying in that universe.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear another song from your new album. What a relief. What are we gonna listen to?

[Katie Gavin]

We're going to play a song called as Good As It Gets and featuring my talented colleague Nana Ajoa on vocals here.

[Alison Stewart]

This is Katie Gavin.

[Nana Adoja]

Do I disappoint you? Am I not what I Seemed.

[Katie Gavin]

I.

[Nana Adoja]

Get disappointed too when love is not what I dreamed you only understand me 80% of our days.

[Katie Gavin]

The sex can.

[Nana Adoja]

Be amazing and otherwise it's okay.

[Katie Gavin]

But.

[Nana Adoja]

I think this is as good as it gets my love I think this is as good as it gets Pray to God that you think that it is enough I think this is as good as it gets I think this is as good as it gets Want you to disappoint me on and off until we're old I'm inside folding laundry you're outside fixing the hose I think this is as good as it gets, my love I think this is as good as it gets Heads. Pray to God that you think that it is enough I think this is as good as it gets I think this is as good as it gets I think it is.

[Alison Stewart]

That's Katie Gavin from her new album. What a relief. She also on that song. You heard Nana Adoja performing on the record, though. It's Mitski. Yeah, it is. How'd that collaboration come about?

[Katie Gavin]

I had her phone number. I just texted her. It was Phoebe's idea, actually, that it should be a duet. And Mitski's my favorite songwriter, so I just. I wanted to have her. She was my first choice.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, you're on Phoebe Bridger's label, and I have to imagine that she's a good creative soundboard.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, she's a really good A and R person. I'm a lucky girl. And I also worked with Tony Berg, who produced the record and works with Phoebe a lot, so it was nice to have them both as kind of, like, sounding boards.

[Alison Stewart]

What advice did Tony Berg give you?

[Katie Gavin]

He worked with me a lot, actually, on what's called pre production. Like, I played him. I just went to his house a bunch of days in a row and played him, like, 40 demos, and we restructured certain songs and changed certain chords. He really pushes you to make interesting choices that serve the song. I can be, like, a bit of a classicist in terms of songwriting. Like, I just stick to, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus. And he pushes you outside of the box a little bit.

[Alison Stewart]

I was gonna ask you, do you ever get precious about your songs? And then somebody comes in and just says, hey, guess what? We're gonna move this. We're gonna move this over here. And you're like, whoa.

[Katie Gavin]

No, for sure, yeah. I mean, it's never really like that. I feel that I've. I'm. I mean, I'm about to be 32, so I've been working in music for A really long time. And it. And I feel like I've learned how to advocate for myself in a certain way and say, like, hey, I'm a precious baby creative, and I have to be treated really delicately in order to not shut down in the studio. But, yeah, I mean, we had certain, like, points of contention, actually, in the last song we're going to play for you, there's a line in it that was questioned because it's kind of just. It's just a weird line, but sometimes you know in your heart that you know what's right. And ultimately, you know, that's what this solo project was about. A lot for me was like, learning to trust my own instinct.

[Alison Stewart]

What was the. What is the difference between writing a song for Muna and writing a song that's just for Katie?

[Katie Gavin]

Right. I think, actually I do kind of write without a destination in mind, or I write. I'm constantly writing for Muna. And if really it's like, that is my primary relationship, and if they don't feel that a song is right for them, then it will go to me. But these are, like, ultimately, these are B sides. These are Muna reject songs. And that's completely fine with me. I really want, you know, my legacy to be, like, what I do with Muna. But this is all great on top. This is a cherry on top.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Katie Gavin. The new album is called what a Relief. So many of these songs are about love. I love the one about the dog being next to you in bed. It's really sweet.

[Nana Adoja]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Does writing a song help you deal with those kind of emotions, even if it's about a dog?

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, actually, there's a song you're talking about, Sweet Abbey Girl. And I wrote that song right after I had adopted two senior dogs and one of them passed away. And I wrote that song while I was really grieving. I was really struck by the grief. It was intense. And I had posted it on actually, like, my story on Instagram, and I got a ton of people, like, responding with their own experiences, and that moment was really pivotal for moving my grief. I just feel like it really helps me to create stuff, share it, and then be able to talk about those feelings with other people. It's just I'm lucky to have that tool.

[Alison Stewart]

So you think you have a different relationship, whatever, with whatever emotion it is after you've written a song about it?

[Katie Gavin]

I think. I don't know if it's that I have one after a different one after writing, but after sharing, I think because it just opens up. I need to talk about these things with other people and, like, know that I'm not alone in what I'm experiencing.

[Alison Stewart]

You've been directing your videos. A couple of videos. We should say.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

For casual drug use and Aftertaste. Has that always been an ambition for you to direct?

[Katie Gavin]

No, but it is really fun.

[Alison Stewart]

And I say take another take.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah. Like, I think I realized I was very lucky. I worked with this photographer and director, Alexa Vicious, who's based in Chicago, which is where I'm from, and it was just really beautiful. I got to go back to my city to do the video for Aftertaste, and she handled a lot of the logistics, but I kind of got to just have a very detailed fantasy, like that's what directing kind of was for me. I was like. And then I do this at this point in the song and I, like, made a shot list for her. And, you know, I've been doing that. I've been having detailed fantasies to pop songs since I was like, you know, 8 years old. So it's actually, if you think about it like that, it's not that hard.

[Alison Stewart]

Is her name really Alexis Vicious?

[Katie Gavin]

Alexa Vicious. Yeah. Yeah, she's the coolest.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Katie Gavin. The new album is called what a Relief. So you performed at Barry Ballroom last night?

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

And tonight is sold out as well?

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What's it been like being on stage by yourself?

[Katie Gavin]

Well, I'm not by myself. It's really nice to have Nana Joa with me, but I think it has been. It's been really fun not having. The biggest difference is that I don't have in ear monitors in when we're playing a muna show. I have things in my ears that keep me from hearing what people in the audience are saying. I can just hear like the tracks we're playing with these monitors. So I can just hear people talking to me. And we're having like a con. We're having a conversation the whole show. So I feel very much not alone.

[Alison Stewart]

We're gonna play your last song for us as inconsolable. And it's got this country feel to it. One YouTube comment said, I didn't know how badly I needed to yeehaw, Katie, until now. And you co wrote this with Eric Radloff?

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, I did, yeah, he wrote. Yeah, he wrote some of the pre chorus helped me like fill in the blanks in this song.

[Alison Stewart]

Now let's listen to Inconsolable from Katie Gavin.

[Katie Gavin]

Getting my fiddle ready.

[Nana Adoja]

Said stay with me and we'll fall asleep I was sitting on the couch and I put my hood up Couldn't let it be, Couldn't let you see If I could have done better then you know I would have Wanna say it first but I don't have the words we're from a long line of people we describe as inconsolable we don't know how to be helped yeah, we're from a whole hundred households Full of beds where nobody cuddle we don't know how to be helped I've seen baby lizards run into the river when they open their eyes Even though no no one taught them how we're white maybe when you kiss me I can let you see me cry if we keep going by the feeling we can get by you do it when you're in a mood you go hiding in your house Trying to be your own savior why can't you see I love you? Even when you're acting out on your worst behavior? But I know why you won't let me inside? We're from a long line of people we describe as inconsolable we don't know how to be helped yeah, we're from a whole huddle of households full of beds where nobody cuddled we don't know how to be helped I've seen baby lizards running in the river when they open their ey Even though no one taught them how or why Maybe when you kiss me I can't let you see me cry if we keep going by the feeling we can get by if we keep going by the feeling we can get by.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Inconsolable from Katie Gavin. Her new album is what a Relief. Got about a minute left. What should I ask you? What song are you the proudest of on this debut solo album?

[Katie Gavin]

Oh, man, it's probably. It's probably two. I really am proud of Inconsolable, and I'm also proud of another song called the Baton. I think maybe it's because these are the two songs that I'm playing fiddle on when we're playing live. And that was such a new endeavor and new adventure for me. I played violin as a kid, and then I decided I was gonna, like, try to relearn it with the goal of playing when we toured this record. And it's just been really fun to, like, try something new and fiddle.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you to Nana Adoja and also to Katie Galvin Gavin. The new record is called what a Relief. Thanks for being with us. Really appreciate it.

[Katie Gavin]

Thank you so much for having us. So many options for toilet paper, Quintuple ply. This roll is titanium in forest. This one is made from elderly trees.

[Nana Adoja]

Is that good?

[Alison Stewart]

Just grab Angelsoft. It's simple, soft and strong and for any budget.

[Nana Adoja]

Angelsoft. Soft and strong. Simple.

[WNYC Studios]

Look around. You can find cars like these on autotrader. New cars, used cars, electric cars, maybe even flying cars. Ok, no flying cars. But as soon as they get invented, they'll be on autotrader. Just you wait. Autotrader.