← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Listening Party: Renée Elise Goldsberry on Her Debut Album and 'Hamilton' at 10
00:30:31
Tony Award-winner Renée Elise Goldsberry has released her debut album, Who I Really Am.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:21]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
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Alison Stewart
You'Re listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Coming up on tomorrow's show, in honor of Pride month, we're gonna talk about romance, specifically LGBTQ romance novels. We'll be joined by Leah Koch, one of the owners of the bookstore the Ripped Bodice. And she'll tell us some of her favorite queer love stories. We want you to know yours as well, so get ready to call in and share. That's in the fewer in the future. Now let's get this hour started with some music. My next guest, Renee Elise Goldsberry is a Tony winning actor. The original Angelica Schuyler and Broadway's Hamilton. You saw her at the Tonys just a little over a week ago. But she's also a TV actor in Girls 5 ever and playing the lead in the immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. She's also starred in films like Waves and last year's Albany Road. And now she can add to those credits she has a solo album. Here's the song. Staring.
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Song Lyrics
You walked in the room and you arrested me Ain't I made out the best of me in so long kind of keeps but you got me sh wasn't ready for the way you look I'm so gone it's under hookah. You are the headlamp and I'm the standing here but I got eyes I get to see this man in front of me. You got knees.
- [02:52]
Alison Stewart
Goldberry's new album is titled who I really am. It features 13 songs, most of them written by her. Plus a little help from Girls 5Ever co star Sara Bareilles. And then there's one Hamilton reimagining. Joining me for an all of it listening party is Renee Elise Goldsberry. I'm so happy to see you.
- [03:08]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
I'm so excited to talk to you.
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Alison Stewart
Alison, I have to tell you, you look so Gorgeous. I wish we were on tv. You look amazing.
- [03:16]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Thank you so much. I had a full day of styling and press. If I had walked in here off the street, I would not look. I would not hold a candle to you.
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Alison Stewart
You had the glam squad going.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
I had the glam squad going. It's been a lot of lately, it's been a joy to promote this album. I'm having so much fun.
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Alison Stewart
All right, fun fact. If you believe the Internet, you won the John Lennon Songwriting Contest.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
I did.
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Alison Stewart
In the 90s.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
I did.
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Alison Stewart
When did you start writing songs?
- [03:44]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Oh, my gosh. Well, the first heartbreak was when I was in high school and my boyfriend graduated and went to college. That was when I first started writing music. But when I started recording music was after grad school in Los Angeles, University of Southern California, I met Andreas Geck. He put a recording studio in his garage. And we just started writing and writing and writing. And we wrote a song called oh, my God, I Never. It was a list of all the things I've never done. And won this new songwriting contest called the John Lennon Songwriting Contest. We won Rock Song of the Year and it was voted on by all of the biggest Grammy Award winning songwriters at the time. So it was just one of those times in my very long career where everyone thought I was about to blow up and I didn't.
- [04:32]
Alison Stewart
But you won.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
But I won. It was affirmation and it kept me going.
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Alison Stewart
How has your songwriting changed from those early days to the most recent? The songs that we hear on the album.
- [04:42]
Progressive Insurance Ad
Great question.
- [04:43]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
I think it's the fact that I have an outro section. That's the lesson learned. If I'm writing about a heartbreak or breaking someone's heart, I actually know how well it turned out for him. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I have a little bit more information. Cause I've lived a number of years longer, so I have. Yeah, I kind of know what happens.
- [05:07]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Have you been writing all that time?
- [05:10]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
I don't write as much as I should. I'm one of those kind of project writers. I've had this great honor of singing all of these songs of these fantastic songwriters that take so much. And it's so. It really is such an awesome form of expression that it really was 2020 and the world shutting down that made me realize, well, I can't cook. So no one wants to see me do a cooking show unless it's comedic. But what I can do is tell all these stories in song. I just started writing and writing and writing Again. And I'm proud that finally I have. I compiled a lot of it on this album.
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Alison Stewart
What were you thinking about at the time when you started writing?
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
I was thinking about my children. I was thinking about, gosh, Black lives matter happen. I started thinking about what good trouble looks like. I was thinking about my husband, who is the. The object. Or staring, I would say the objectified in the song staring. I was thinking about all of the things. I had a lot of time on my hands, actually. Songwriting feels like a short form of expression, and that works for me. I can really focus in on these verses, choruses and bridges and capture a mood, even give a moral to the story and move on.
- [06:35]
Alison Stewart
What part of you will we not have? How do I say it? What part of you will people not recognize that will be new to them when they listen to this album?
- [06:45]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
That's really interesting. You know, that's a great question, because I don't know that there is something, if I had gone down the road that I thought I was supposed to go down as a recording artist, which is why it took me so long to be one.
- [06:58]
Alison Stewart
Sure.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
And that is pick a lane and stay in it. Your voice has to have this one sound, and it has to be this one genre of music. They might have been surprised about what wasn't there. Because I think as an artist that came up, having been in the theater and having done so many, played so many kinds of roles, I think they would have missed out on the humor, perhaps, that they know from me, from girls 5eva, or maybe some more of the romance or some more of the protest, the rap. How about that? Someone came up to me one day when I was in Hamilton, and they said, aren't you that rapper, the Train? It's my favorite sighting ever in my whole life. I looked behind me. There was literally no one behind me.
- [07:43]
Alison Stewart
So you're talking to me.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
This woman came up to me. She said, aren't you that rapper? And I said, I'm sorry. And she said, renee Elise Goldsberry, aren't you that rapper? And I said, well, yes, I am. And then she said, oh, it's nice to meet you. And I said, can I take a picture with you? I was so proud.
- [07:57]
Alison Stewart
Have a T shirt made up.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
Yeah, she had seen me. I got to do the Cypher, the BET Cipher with the Roots and with Lin Manuel Miranda and David Diggs. And I was the woman rapper. And so that's a part of me, too. And there's a home for spoken word on this album.
- [08:12]
Alison Stewart
We are talking To Renee Elise Goldsberry. We're having a listening party for her album, who I really Am. Let's listen to that song, who I really Am, and we'll talk about it on the other side.
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Song Lyrics
Introducing a big sensation, a critic darling. A revelation. Well, she may be new to you but she's no beginner A triple threat and a trophy winner? But take a little bit and you might get dirty. Cause the bones of caring Breed deep losses that won't let me see Heavy burdens I miscarry and it's scary to me My biography doesn't tell all of who I am who I really am, who I really am, who I really am Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
I love the bass mat. Such good bass in that.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
I was like, turn it up.
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Alison Stewart
Who was your producer on this record?
- [09:49]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Joseph Abate. Joseph Abate and Kyle Mann. I had a few. I had nephew Theron Feimster. In the beginning. It's been four years, so we moved through. But the one that started with me and ended with me is Joseph Abate. He is a perfectionist like me, which sometimes is terrible because who turns anything in when it has to be perfect? But the fact that somebody would obsess with me in the detail, and it's hard to do when you're trying to achieve the vision of another person. I write music, obviously, I arrange. I've been a recording vocalist for a long time, but to be able to find the bass line that supports the meaning of this song and the vision is something that I need help with. And, yeah, he was in the trenches with me.
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Alison Stewart
Producers bring out the best in the talent. What did he bring out in you?
- [10:40]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
A lot of frustration. Just because sometimes you feel. I mean, just in general, like, there's a lot of mansplaining going on. In a world that's so run by men, it takes a minute to recognize that it really wasn't that. It's just that it's also precious to me. I think I'll be much easier to work with on the next album. But on this album, it's really hard for somebody to say, no, that doesn't work. I'm like, well, why doesn't it work? What do you have to work on so that it works? So, for example, you just played this song, who I really Am. It's about the lie of our bios, the lie of our introductions. When you gave me that beautiful introduction and you talk about the awards that I've won, and somehow or another, I find myself unrecognizable in it because so much of the value of who I am is the loss. It is the times I've stumbled, it's the pain. It's those things I find so valuable. And we don't really do that. We give people this great in our introductions. And so this song, I needed to start with the bravado of an introduction and then transition into the flip side of the coin where you dig into the dirt and it gets dirty and you hear about miscarriages and you hear about pain and you hear about the days that are not celebrated but are real for all of us. And so I needed the song, production wise, to go from being like this big paparazzi opening disco to something that felt more vulnerable. And in this version, it becomes a little bit. There's a little Beatles in there happening. Yes, definitely. But it definitely unplugs to a point where you might feel more vulnerability. And that was hard to explain and it's a little weird, but yeah, the compromise of figuring out how to make it work has produced something that I loved so much. It became the title track of the album.
- [12:29]
Alison Stewart
It's so interesting because in that song, it's really smart because you're talking to camera A here. I am. Fantastic. But let's talk to camera B over here. I'm gonna tell you about this other thing that's going on with me. Yeah, you get a lot from one, so you can.
- [12:43]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
It's so amazing. There's so much room. Even in a world today where songs are becoming shorter and shorter and shorter.
- [12:48]
Alison Stewart
That's hard. I have to say. We're about the same age.
- [12:51]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Yes, I understand.
- [12:51]
Alison Stewart
Like, when I hear like a song's only a minute 56, I'm like, oh, come on.
- [12:56]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
I might. You know what I think? Cool. Yeah. And look at my son. I have a 16 year old son. And, you know, he's a wonderful kind of barometer for what is happening. And I listen to some of his music. I'm like, oh, you can do that. I learned so much from my children. My daughter asked me one day, driving down the street in the middle of this whole process, mommy, what is an album? And I was like, aha. How do I answer the question? It took me so long. She started answering it for herself. She was like, is that when an artist decides to release a lot of songs at the same time? And I said, yeah. And she said, why would they do that? And it just helped me to realize, you know, there are no rules. You know, the only rule is really, what? How do you want to express this? That was really freeing to me. So I love the interesting. I love to know that everything is fair game in the world that we live in.
- [13:46]
Alison Stewart
Can I ask you a question as a mom, do you go back and do you share old albums with your.
- [13:51]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Children all the time? Oh, my gosh. Well, sometimes I'll just be cooking and then I'll think the Gap Band. Do you know what I mean? Like, something will cross my mind, Billy Joel. Like, something will happen and I'll be like, oh, my gosh, I haven't introduced you to Smokey Robbins. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know. Or you know. So this. Ha. It'll just cross my mind out of nowhere. And then they're forced to list did Tears of a Clown four times in a row. So they know or, you know, you dropped a bomb on me, baby. Or whatever, you know. Eva Cassidy. Like, I'm constantly coming up with something that I feel like I failed because I haven't introduced them to. But what is hilarious is that we'll be driving down the street and like Cyndi Lauper girls Just Want to have Fun will come on in my car and I'll start singing, and my daughter will say, how do you know this song? Because I was there the first time. Exactly. Well, because of TikTok. She's like, how do you like, it all belongs to them now.
- [14:41]
Alison Stewart
Oh, that's so funny. I looked up on the wall and I saw and I was like, what? I was like, do you have my guitar? He's like, yeah, I'm learning to play Johnny Cash.
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Song Lyrics
That's awesome.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
See, that's it. So that's in. In the world we grew up in, there was a radio station. It played one kind of music and it 100% defined you. And in the world they grow up in, it all is theirs. Everything is theirs.
- [15:03]
Alison Stewart
We should talk about your music. Her album is called who I really Am. My guest is Renee Elise Goldsberry. Let's listen to a track. This is called Enough. Moving Target.
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Song Lyrics
Yay.
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Alison Stewart
It's the moving target in the song.
- [15:15]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Oh, my God. Satisfaction.
- [15:17]
Alison Stewart
Let's listen.
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Song Lyrics
Stuck in traffic in my head Standing still but I can't claim the freeway boy woke me up and said, you haven't done enough and I said, okay, okay, okay what is enough? Tell me how does it feel? Hunger returns after ever in meal I finish first then I'm back where I started in love It's a moving target It's a moving target My appetite from childhood Cause every school who am I thinking of?
- [16:35]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Who am I listening to the sound of the. This, this track, it is Phil Spector all the way. I'm so glad you played it. I didn't know you were gonna play that. It makes me so happy, that song. I have to give credit to the someone I wrote the song with. Her name is Julia Gargano and my producer, Joseph Abate, because it was hard to find a way to translate that song into a pop song. And he, he gave me back Phil Spector from a song that I just loved. From the message. Yeah, we wrote it in 2022 and it was about dissatisfaction, it much and feeling like you hadn't done enough. And that's what happens. Unless we push back, it doesn't matter what you accomplish in your life. People are going to be like, where are they now? What have you done lately? And, and, and I should say that's not people. That's. That's our own inner voices. So the idea that worry woke me up and said, you haven't done enough. And I said, okay, okay, okay. It's that constant feeling like you haven't done enough and having to find, you know, an ability to stay ambitious that, you know, ambition requires some form of dissatisfaction with what you have, but also gratitude. If nothing else happens for me, I am good. How do you balance those two things? Well, it takes a lot. So listen to the song.
- [17:56]
Alison Stewart
Let me know when you figure that out.
- [17:57]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Let me know when you figure it out.
- [18:00]
Alison Stewart
My guest is actor and singer Renee Elise Goldsberry. We're talking about her new album who I really Am. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is actor and singer Renee Elise Goldsberry. We're having a listening party for her new album titled who I really Am. Sara Bareilles co wrote a song on this album.
- [18:32]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Oh yeah.
- [18:33]
Alison Stewart
Don't Want to Love youe. How did that make it onto the album?
- [18:36]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
How did that make it? How did the rest of the songs make it after she gave me that, yeah, she's an angel. She's one of my. I consider her a sister. We got to work together on Girls5Eva and before I got to work with her, I was just a huge fan. I think she's perhaps one of the greatest singer songwriters that has ever lived.
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Alison Stewart
She is. Yeah.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
And yeah, I said to her, I had the courage to say to her one day back, you know, off a set, you know, I'm writing an album. She Said oh, oh I have a song that I wrote that I didn't use that you might like. And I didn't. I heard it and I thought I had just written a song called I Met Someone, which was about breaking someone's heart. And this felt like the perfect opposite side of the coin for the song. Perfect and beautiful. Just like her.
- [19:19]
Alison Stewart
Let's hear. Don't want to love you.
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Song Lyrics
Someday Someday I'll be so much better A baby Call you when I get there.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
To.
- [19:38]
Song Lyrics
The may don't think I can see you, baby I know you think it isn't fair Always, always you are where I draw to baby to make the pain go away so what do I do now that you makes it rain? I don't wanna hold on so damn tight to somebody else's hands I wanna wake up, wanna come to I don't wanna love you don't wanna keep wondering why why tell myself that you just need time I wanna wake up, wanna come to.
- [20:44]
Alison Stewart
So what do you know now is unique about the way Sara Bareilles represent. Writes a song after singing that song.
- [20:51]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Oh, I get chills just listening to it. I think there's something about hearing a great song and it moving you so much. What Sarah does that nobody else does is singing her songs. Feels good. It feels good to sing them. There is a double satisfaction, if you will. They're so emotional. There's so much of her personality in it. There's such a strong hook. There's so much opportunity. I produced this song for a long time. Cause it could have been 10 things because it's so good. It could have been so many different genres of music. But it feels good on the voice and it feels good to the ear.
- [21:29]
Alison Stewart
Do you think that's because she's a singer as well?
- [21:31]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
It is. But I have to tell you, as a singer that's a songwriter, I think that doesn't always. They don't always go together. I think sometimes it's wonderful to hear singers sing songs that they didn't write because we might tend to go easy on ourself as vocalists. I might not necessarily push myself vocally beyond where I would naturally go. Sometimes a songwriter will force me to do something and I might not do it myself. And Sarah's instrument is so tremendous and she's so vocally gifted that she doesn't push you to do something that's hard. That's gonna take away from the message. But it absolutely is going to stretch the voice in a way that feels.
- [22:14]
Alison Stewart
Is there somewhere on the album where you had to push yourself vocally.
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Renee Elise Goldsberry
You know, what I'm having to. I'm finding is interesting now. I'm finding the kind of Marvin Gaye syndrome, a little bit of. Now I have to learn how to sing these songs live because it's a very different experience to sing them in a studio. I was singing on a talk show the other day, one of the songs, staring, and I said to myself in the rehearsal, is it this fast?
- [22:39]
Alison Stewart
When do I breathe?
- [22:41]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
So I have had, interestingly, a lot of experience singing other people's songs live. So I'm learning that as well. And that's another journey, and I'm glad I get to do it.
- [22:54]
Alison Stewart
You're singing a new version of Satisfied on the album from Hamilton, from your character Angelica Schuyler. Initially, you weren't quite sure whether or not to do this. What was your concern?
- [23:06]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Well, it's perfect, I think. I mean, you know that music that Lin Manuel Miranda wrote for Hamilton and what he writes for everything, it's perfect. In the demo, before he even has anyone sing it. I was one of the people that had the privilege of hearing him sing the demo of Satisfied. I actually remember. I'm just remembering at this moment, the first time the rap came in. So, so, so, so this is what it feels like to match with. I remember not wanting to replace his voice because it was so perfect. Even the first time I replaced it, it felt like sacred ground. So there was. There's a bit of that in it. But what I've done with this song since 2017, when I left the Broadway show, is perform it live around the country without the cast of Hamilton with me. I had to have. That's actually the only reason why I perform live, because no one's going to let me get out of the building if I don't sing Satisfied before I leave. And I didn't have the company that revolves around me turning back time. And so we created this arrangement. It's so wonderful. It's so, forgive me, satisfying. And when we recorded it, I got to hear it and I thought, absolutely, it's not the same thing. It is the same thing. But it comes. It's like anything that's great. It can live with so many different perspectives, and the perspective 10 years later feels a little different. There's a little bit. All of the things are there. The choice is still there. The brilliance of the decision and the rational thought, that happens in an instant. A little bit more rage at the end. It's a little bit more like I've made a Choice and I understand the pain of it and it's. And the pain comes out a little differently. It's wonderful. I love it. I specifically have to say a shout out. What's most satisfying about this version of Satisfied for me is the. Are the musicians playing this arrangement? It is, it is so. It is great. It's great. There's rage, fury, power. It's wonderful. Wonderful.
- [25:05]
Alison Stewart
Let's hear Satisfied from Renee Elise Goldsberry.
- [25:08]
Song Lyrics
A toast to the groom, to the bride, from your sister who is always by your side. To your union and the hope that you provide. May you always be satisfied. I remember that night. I just might regret that night for the rest of my days. I remember those soldier boys tripping over themselves to win our praise. I remember that dream that came the light Like a dream that you can't quite blaze But Alexander Ander, I'll never forget the first time I saw your face I have never been the same Intelligent eyes in a hunger pain frame and when you said hi I forgot my dang name and my heart a flame Every part of flame this is not a game.
- [26:25]
Alison Stewart
That is Satisfied. From Renee Elise Goldsberry's album who I really Am. Last Hamilton question.
- [26:32]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
No, you can ask as many as you want.
- [26:35]
Alison Stewart
Why do you think, what did it tap into people 10 years ago and what is it? Why are people tapping into it now? Because since the Tony performance, everybody's like, oh, wait, that show was great.
- [26:48]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
It's really a perfect show. It's about something that no one knew that everyone needed to know. It's a. Oh my God. It's a complete examination of the birth of our nation. It's a complete examination of an immigrant. It's a complete examination of just a human being and family and loss and failure. And it's impossible to answer in one sentence. What we rediscovered at the Tonys is that every single song is mind blowingly great. We did a six minute medley and that was just a couple of the songs. We couldn't. We could have done four other medleys of all different songs and every single one of them you would have been like, oh my gosh. And just to brag a little bit about this wonderful company, every single person in this family, all of those people are just so perfectly suited to stand in that company and play those roles. They're so talented, they're so interesting, they're so beautiful. And I think when you get to see them come together, it feels a bit like a rat pack. Like, oh yeah, Jonathan Groff was in it too. Oh yeah, Leslie you know, you get to see Philippa, Soo, Jasmine. You know, you get to see us all together. I think the love is undeniable. The love for what we're doing, the love for each other, the love for the reclaiming of this country by this group of people. We thought it was for a different time 10 years ago. What I keep discovering is that, like all really great works of art, there's something to tell us about each moment that we find ourselves in. And I'm really proud that I got to be a part of something like that.
- [28:36]
Alison Stewart
This is your solo album.
- [28:38]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
I know.
- [28:39]
Alison Stewart
What does that mean to you that you have a solo album out?
- [28:41]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Well, it means a lot of gratitude to God, to my husband for, like writing this kind of. We produce it ourselves. So it's kind of a blank check. Belief in me and, you know, kind of. I don't know what's happening. It's been four years, but I trust something's going on. It gives me chills because I've never done this. I've done so many radio programs, I've celebrated so many wonderful stories through so many different writers. I have never done it for music that is telling my story. And I'm grateful that I'm having this opportunity at this point in my life. Who knew? Who knew there was something more to risk and to dream about and to share?
- [29:27]
Alison Stewart
That could be another name for the album who knew?
- [29:31]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
That's Album two. Thank you, Alison. You're welcome.
- [29:34]
Alison Stewart
I've been speaking to actor and singer Renee Elise Goldsberry. Her new album is called who I really Am. Thank you for being with us.
- [29:42]
Renee Elise Goldsberry
Thank you for having me.
- [29:43]
Alison Stewart
Let's go out on youn're so close.
- [29:58]
Song Lyrics
You think you have misplaced your calling Feels like life wasn't meant to go your way when you wanna run but you're stuck crawling Close your eyes and try to hide your face but the spark never leaves Waiting to make an explosion you just roll up your sleeves and you keep on going, you keep on going Right where you are standing is right on top of the gold Sometimes good I ain't handed to ya but it's under your nose don't give up, you're so close.
- [31:23]
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