
"Love on the Spectrum" follows different people with autism as they attempt to navigate the dating world and find love.
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WNYC Studios
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. April is autism awareness month and that means celebrating the diversity within the autism community. And one Emmy award winning TV show places that goal at the center of its production. Love on the Spectrum. Love on the Spectrum follows a group of neurodivergent young people as they navigate the complicated world of romance. There are folks like Abby and David who have been dating successfully for years. Others like Madison and Tanner have been unlucky in love so far. And everyone is coming to the process with anxieties that we all have. Will they find me attractive? Will they have interests like I have? What kind does physical intimacy look like? What? Listen to a bit of their trailer.
Kian O'Clary
It's good to see you. It's good to see you too.
WNYC Studios
I'm so happy to see your face, Kian.
Kian O'Clary
So you guys are still together? Yes, we are. How would you describe your ideal partner?
Alison Stewart
Oh, I'm not sure how much if.
Kian O'Clary
We have that much time.
WNYC Studios
A girl who's very talkative like me and a girl who eats nicely, has a very nice giggle and smile, Witty, charming.
Alison Stewart
I got a weakness for brunettes. Someone who is able of a back and forth conversation, polite, respectful, friendly.
WNYC Studios
I mean, there's like 8 billion people in the world. Somebody's gotta be the one for me.
Alison Stewart
Season three of Love on the Spectrum is streaming now on Netflix. I'm joined by two of the show's creators and executive producer Kian O'Clary. Hi, Keon.
Kian O'Clary
Hi. How you doing?
Alison Stewart
I am doing well.
Kian O'Clary
Thanks for having us.
Alison Stewart
Yeah. And Karina Holden's joining us as well from Australia where it's very early in the morning. Hi, Karina. Hey, good morning, listeners. We'd love to hear from you. If you're someone with autism, what has been dating like for you? Maybe you're the parent or the sibling supporting someone with autism as they date and what the experience has been like. Or maybe you have a question about the filming of Love on the Spectrum, give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Kian, how did you first arrive at the idea for this show?
Kian O'Clary
So we. I was making A series with Northern Pictures with Karina back in Australia for our public broadcaster, which is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. So we're big fans of public broadcasting. Yeah, Northern Pictures. And so we were making a series that was about following people with disabilities looking for employment. And kind of the show is about kind of highlighting the skills that people can bring to a workplace and kind of giving people opportunities and helping audiences understand what, you know, the positives that. That can be brought to a workplace by employing a diverse range of people. And through that process, just met many, many, many young adults on the autism spectrum. And we just kept hearing as we got to know people through the casting process, not just the people we filmed with, but also the hundreds and hundreds of people we spoke to in the casting process. There was a real kind of yearning with a lot of people to find love and to enter the dating world. And there was a lot of people we met who that hadn't yet started to date. And I think, you know, an example is Mark, who is in the first series of Love on the spectrum. He was 29 years old, wanted nothing more than to find love and never been on a date. So it just felt like there was this kind of space where the support wasn't quite there and there were a lot of people we were meeting who really wanted that support. And in Australia, we had a lot of support for employment, but not for kind of the dating relationships, finding love, social skills. So it just felt like a really interesting kind of space to explore as well as, you know, I just realized there were all these really interesting, wonderful people on the spectrum, and that was really diverse. And, you know, we, we. I took to Karina, she loved it, we developed it and, and pitched it to the ABC public broadcaster. And, you know, eventually we got it up. But it was hard. You know, it was hard. And interestingly, one of the things that was hard was people would say, well, isn't it just going to feel the same because everybody's on the spectrum. And our answer to that is that's the whole point of why we need to make the show, because everyone is very different. And there is this kind of probably a bit of an understanding, or not an understanding, but a thought that people on the spectrum are all quite similar. And I think a lot of that was to do with what media representation we'd had so far in films and maybe in TV shows. So that's kind of how it all started.
Alison Stewart
Karina, for Love on the Spectrum, what.
Karina Holden
Lessons did you learn from the first season of the show that you've carried with you into season three.
WNYC Studios
Oh, it's. It's such a. An amazing. An amazing experience to be part of a show that teaches you about compassion and understanding right from the start. And I just feel like every single season, there's new things to explore and learn. And as the mother, father of a young son with autism, it's really taught me so much about parenting and. And radical honesty and being the kind of parent that I really want to be. But it's also taught me so much about my own relationships and about just bringing enthusiasm and not playing games and. And the kind of beautiful way that people celebrate each other in the show. There's just an overflowing of joy that comes through both in the way that people bring themselves to tell their stories and then the way the audience responds as well. And so it just feels like such a rich experience being involved in. In something that has meant so many. There's so much to so many people, both those people who've participated in the series, but also people who look at it and feel validated for themselves or their stories or the people around them that they're seeing in different ways. And so, yeah, it's just such an incredible gift to be part of the show.
Karina Holden
Kian, you're often the one doing the interviews with the cast members. We heard you a little bit in that clip. Sometimes you ask the cast members what aut autism means to them. Why is that a question that you wanted to ask?
Kian O'Clary
Because it means something different for every person. And I think, again, that's just a. A part of trying to understand the diversity of the spectrum and just how wide the spectrum is just, you know, for each person, it means a very different thing. And, yeah, it just feels like something that's really important to explore. And, you know, I think what's great about the series is being able to hear from real people in their own voices about what their thoughts are on what autism means. And, you know, as well as everything else, as well as their hopes and dreams and, you know, what they want from life and all that good stuff.
Karina Holden
Karina, what kind of support do you have on hand for the cast if they. They get overwhelmed or they get upset or they just need extra support?
WNYC Studios
It's a really important part of making the series that we keep a team very small and that there's a continuity right from the very beginning. And so on set, there's a very small group of people of whom Kian is both a director and a second camera. And then we have a camera and a sound and another support person, but they stay consistent from the very beginning of casting all the way to the end. And it's a. It's a very considered process in that things are done at the right pace for each person at the right time. That we're fitting in with their lives. We're not constructing anything that they're not comfortable with, that they're really telling the stories in the ways that they want to, but that they've developed that relationship. And it's one that, you know, Keyan's there as their wingman, really. And that starts from the moment that they start speaking before any filming happens. And it continues through our first master interviews with them. And then, you know, they become part of a family. I mean, people who have filmed with us over the seasons of Love on the Spectrum are very much involved with each other and, and with our crew as well. And I think that that just kind of comes from the. The way that we film so that people feel that things are done at the. In the way that they want to, in a pace that they're comfortable with and that they're not being put out of their comfort zones, that they can really check in and they can stop things if they're not comfortable. If they're in the middle of filming and they want to take a break, that's all possible because we're not throwing them in a house or on an island somewhere in order to find love under some other construct. It's really something to do with the way that they would live their. Their lives. But they've just got this crew of supportive people there with them as they go along for that journey.
Alison Stewart
Let's take a call. This is Rachel, who is calling in from niacc. Hi, Rachel, thanks for making the time to call all of it. You're on the air.
Rachel
Thank you for coming on the air. So first of all, myself, I'm 65. I am a bit neuro sparkly myself, although I was never diagnosed as a young one. But I have three daughters who are in their 20s and 30s. This is our favorite show on TV by far. But I do struggle at times wondering if, is there Dwight, if this is exploitative at all. You know, I mean, everybody who's on the show seems to be happy to be on the show. Then I. But then there's times when I'm watching, like when I watch James this season and saw him struggling in that speed dating and saw him struggling, he gets. He gets so anxious and so. And I just feel like, am I just looking in a fish tank at this poor kid. And I just. Young man, and I just want to take him and put my arm around him and say, it's gonna be okay. Yeah. And I don't know if that's like, am I. Is this. You know what I'm saying?
Alison Stewart
Yeah, let's. Let's let Kian address this issue. What do you think, Keon?
Kian O'Clary
Well, I would hope not. And I think it's good that you acknowledge that the participants themselves are really happy to be in the show. And for me and for Karina, their feelings and their thoughts on the series are the most important. For me, they're the most important critics of anyone. And they all love the show. They love being a part of it. People always want to come back for the next season if possible. And then James, for example, the. The speed dating that we filmed James going to, he'd been going to a lot of speed dating events, and it was a really important part of his story. And he, He. He does struggle with it, but he keeps doing it because he really wants to find love. And it was important for us to show that because that's the truth of his story. You know, like, I think if we hadn't have shown that, which has been such an important part of his search for love, it. It probably wouldn't really be genuine. And I think, you know, it. It's. Sometimes it's important to see a struggle people can face. You know, somebody mentioned, I saw recently, someone mentioned online, why was James speed dating with neurotypical people? Because that's what James does. That's what James wants to do. You know, so again, it's about us following people, doing things they want to do, and dating people they want to date. You know, choosing to go to a restaurant or to go speed dating or. Or whatever it might be. It's really important that we follow James, for example, doing what he wants to do. And I think, you know, I'm not sure if Caller has finished the season yet, but there's. There's good things ahead for James after speed dating. And I think having seen him struggle, it just makes it so much more rewarding when he does have success in the end.
Alison Stewart
My guests are Kian and Karina. They are the creators and executive producers of the Netflix series. Love on the Spectrum is a docu series which follows a group of people with autism as they navigate the dating world. Keanu Killer, Excuse me. Season three is available to stream now. If you're someone with autism, what has been navigating the dating world? What has this been like for you? Are you a parent of sibling of someone supporting someone you're supporting with autism as they date? What does the experience been like? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it.
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Karina Holden
This week on the New Yorker Radio.
Alison Stewart
Hour, Donald Trump's war with the courts.
Karina Holden
Trump's legal strategy has been backfiring, I think demonstrably in the lower courts. I thought the Supreme Court was going to send a message to the Trump administration, back off, guys. That's not what's happened.
Alison Stewart
I'll talk with Ruth Marcus on the.
Kian O'Clary
New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC Studios.
Alison Stewart
Listen Wherever you get your podcasts, you are listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests are Keon O'Cleary and Karina Holden. They are the creators and executive producers of the series Love on the Spectrum. Season three is available on Netflix. The docu series follows a group of people with autism as they navigate the dating world. Karina A lot of the third season is about sex and intimacy. Some cast members, they want to have sex, others don't. Some want to talk to their parents about sex, some don't. How did sex emerge as a big theme for this season?
WNYC Studios
Well, it's just everything within the series comes from the participants themselves. There's no pushing people into certain conversations or ideas or let's frame this as, you know, like one of the themes of the season. It's often coming from a place where participants are now in relationships as opposed to just meeting people for the first time. And so their relationships are maturing. And that's just a natural part of what somebody may wish to explore. And we just go along on that journey with people. So it's it's important to normalize sex in all relationships. If it's something that people want, then we should be able to talk about it. And so, yeah, I guess we're just guided really by what the participants are exploring in their own Thoughts and with their, their family members as they discuss those, those more sensitive topics.
Alison Stewart
Kian, when you introduce people going on dates with the cast members, I should say they, you share two things that they like and a couple of things that they don't like. Why does this feel like the right way to introduce people into the show?
Kian O'Clary
Oh, look, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I kind of borrowed that from Amelie. I don't know if you've seen the French film Amelie from was it in the 90s of the 2000s. And it just, I just love that way of just introducing someone in a really quick, fun, interesting way. And so we just kind of took it from there. And, you know, I think it can, I don't know, it's just a nice way to introduce people on it, on, on a show that. Without having to kind of go into deep diving details about who they are. But it was just a nice little snippet of something that says something about who they are before we meet them. So that's really all that is. But, you know, people seem to really like it and we, we have fun filming those. Actually. That's, that's the best part of the shoot right at the end when we're finishing up all the filming and the stories and we film these little snippets and it's, it's great fun.
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Mark from Norwalk, Connecticut. Hi, Mark. Thank you so much for calling all of it.
Mark
Hi there. My brother, my oldest brother is in his mid-60s. He lives in a small town in central Costa, California. He's never been on a date and. Yeah, and he's expressed, he expresses almost every time we talk an interest in having sex. And obviously I'm here on the east coast now and I'd like, I'm really at a loss of what to do and how to support him in achieving what he wants in his life.
Alison Stewart
Any thoughts, Karina, you could probably help out our caller. You deal with the families quite a bit on the show. They're a big part of the show, actually. What have you seen people from the families talk to their brother, sister, daughter about?
WNYC Studios
Well, I think that the thing that we've always loved to explore on the show is the way that there is a very openness between families and knowing that the human experience is something that we're all going to have a different perspective on, but when we come together that maybe we can kind of problem solve some of these things together. You're in that safe space of people who care about you. And I think one of the interesting things that has happened that we've seen, Kian and I, since we've been working on the show, is the number of autism organizations and support groups that have grown and tried to find a space now for dating and relationships and advice about sex and intimacy. And it's something that possibly wasn't there so much going back a decade, but it's slowly gaining some momentum with an awareness that when people initially thought about autism as being something where there was social awkwardness, that that meant that there wasn't this desire for love and belonging. But I think what the show demonstrates in spades that that is absolutely not true. And so how do we help a family member who wants that love, who wants to find a partner who wants to explore this? Well, you know, we'd love to be able to find love for everybody out there, but hopefully there's some groups that in your part of the world that might be able to have those social skills or those dating experiences or the speed dating that happens. But I guess the challenge for your brother is that being in his 60s. A lot of this is aimed at younger people. And it's why we wanted initially, in season one and two in America, we had Steve, who was an older gentleman from San Francisco, had been diagnosed at a much older age, and he had those same desires. And so, you know, hopefully people saw themselves or a family member in him, and hopefully that means that they're within communities, people are looking at how to support those people. So, I mean, it's there. We're obviously, as a show, we resource to be able to make things happen within the show where we find matches and we reach out to organizations and a lot of disability or autism organizations. I hope that there's something in. In your neck of the woods that can help you though.
Karina Holden
Yeah.
Kian O'Clary
And there's also a couple of apps out there, so I, you know, suggest maybe looking them up and see if there's any opportunities there. There's a couple of dating apps that have been created specifically for people on the spectrum, so you never know. But, yeah, hopefully those organizations will even. Even if they're just having, you know, social nights for people to get together and meet and, you know, hopefully there's. There's something like that that could help.
Karina Holden
I want to play a quick clip from the show. This is Abby and David, who we've been following since season one. They've been together. They're celebrating their third anniversary, and Abby wrote David a special song. Let's listen.
Abby
You can name every animal at the zoo. I feel safe when I'm spending time with you. Even when we have nothing to say or nothing to do. But I was kinda nervous to meet someone new. And then I got used to knowing you. You understand me? Remind me to breathe. Being with you is easy you're just who I need. I know sometimes I'm in my head but when I'm with you I'm in the world instead no one treats me better. We're so good.
Alison Stewart
Love her voice, first of all. But, Karina, what does it mean for you to have a couple like Abby and David who met on the show and are still together? Karina, are you there?
WNYC Studios
Yes, I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think that the success of people falling in love on the show is just. It's such a rewarding thing to know that there's relationships out there that have come about because they, they filmed with us and that they were introduced by our team and that. That goes all the way back to the Australian series as well, where there are many of the. The couples that were introduced are still together today. And, you know, it's. We're so proud to be part of their lives. And then the influence that they've created and the, the confidence they've got and the ripple effect that they've had on been wonderful. And I think, you know, as producers, we have a choice of what we spend our time making. And, you know, Ken and I were tragic watchers of dating shows and loved looking at. At other reality programs. But, you know, like, we really wanted to do something that made a difference in the world. And I think that being able to see people who are differently abled, who are given this kind of spotlight and this chance to be part of something that is a cultural phenomenon like a dating show, of being part of a popular culture movement where they become the heroes to people in the world, it's just so beautiful. And whether it's because they're now in a relationship and they can show that that's achievable or if it's just by being their authentic selves. And so people have these, these role models now who are autistic, it's. It's such a rewarding thing to see in the world.
Alison Stewart
Kian, the show is about people with autism navigating dating, but many of the issues and anxieties they face, they're universal. It's like, you know, you totally, totally relate. What do you think the show has to offer a neurotypical audience as well as a neurodiverse audience.
Kian O'Clary
Oh, I mean, I think just the themes are all very similar and when it comes to looking for love and wanting belonging and wanting to find someone special and how, you know, I think Corinne talked before about, about the series kind of, you know, inspiring people to be more and more empathetic and more caring and more. I think it really helps with that. I think it's, yeah, I think it's just it helps me to want to be a better person and nicer and kinder and less, I guess I don't know some of the negative things that a lot of us bring to our lives. And also, I guess just talking about Abby and David and the inspiration of them as a couple, you know, Madison, who's one of the wonderful new cast members in the season three, was absolutely inspired by Abby and David's love story. And you know, Abby and David's story is what brought Madison, is what caused Madison to think I can find love as well, you know. So I think it's really nice to see that, that people are seeing it. People are getting inspired and putting themselves out there and finding love themselves as well.
Karina Holden
The name of the show is Love on the Spectrum. You can watch it now on Netflix. My guests have been creators and executive producers. Excuse me, clean O'Clary and Karina Holden.
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for joining us.
Kian O'Clary
Thanks for having us.
Karina Holden
I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time down the green space.
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Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Love on the Spectrum” Episode
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Kian O'Clary and Karina Holden, Creators and Executive Producers of “Love on the Spectrum”
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Duration: Approximately 26 minutes
In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, the focus is on the Emmy-winning Netflix series “Love on the Spectrum.” Aligning with April's Autism Awareness Month, the episode delves into how the show highlights the diverse experiences of neurodivergent individuals as they navigate the complexities of dating and romantic relationships.
Alison Stewart introduces “Love on the Spectrum” as a docu-series that follows neurodivergent young people in their quest for romance. The show portrays a range of experiences, from successful long-term relationships to individuals who are still seeking love, all while addressing common anxieties such as self-acceptance and understanding physical intimacy.
“ALL OF IT is about culture and the culture,” Alison emphasizes, underscoring the show's role in reflecting and shaping cultural narratives around neurodiversity [00:41].
Kian O'Clary shares the genesis of “Love on the Spectrum,” revealing that the concept evolved from an earlier project focused on employment for individuals with disabilities. During the casting process, the creators recognized a significant desire among participants to find love, leading them to pivot towards exploring romantic relationships.
“We kept hearing... there was a real kind of yearning with a lot of people to find love,” Kian explains [02:46].
Karina Holden adds that the inspiration stemmed from witnessing the diverse and unique individuals on the autism spectrum, challenging the monolithic portrayal often seen in media.
“Everyone is very different,” Kian points out, emphasizing the show's commitment to diversity within the spectrum [02:46].
The creators discuss the misconception that all individuals on the spectrum share similar traits. They highlight the importance of showcasing varied personalities and experiences to foster a deeper understanding and appreciation of neurodiversity.
“There's a whole point of why we need to make the show, because everyone is very different,” Kian asserts [04:00].
Karina Holden discusses the emergence of sex and intimacy as central themes in the latest season, reflecting the natural progression of participants' relationships. The creators stress that these topics are participant-driven, ensuring that discussions around sex are handled with sensitivity and respect.
“It's important to normalize sex in all relationships,” Karina states, highlighting the show's role in fostering open conversations [15:14].
Kian adds that addressing these themes helps demystify and destigmatize sexual relationships for neurodivergent individuals.
“We're guided by what the participants are exploring in their own thoughts,” Kian explains [15:14].
A listener named Rachel expresses concern about the potential exploitation of participants, questioning whether the show might be voyeuristic.
“Am I just looking in a fish tank at this poor kid?” Rachel asks [09:48].
Kian addresses these concerns by emphasizing the participants' enthusiasm and agency in being part of the show. He reassures that the well-being and perspectives of the individuals are paramount.
“Their feelings and their thoughts on the series are the most important,” Kian assures [11:09].
He further explains that showcasing struggles, such as anxiety during speed dating, contributes to authentic storytelling and eventual positive outcomes, enhancing the show's genuineness.
“It's about following people, doing things they want to do, and dating people they want to date,” Kian emphasizes [11:09].
Mark calls in seeking guidance on supporting his brother with autism, who desires to date but has never been on a date.
“He expresses almost every time we talk an interest in having sex,” Mark shares [17:31].
Karina Holden responds by highlighting the importance of family support and the growing number of autism organizations that offer resources for dating and relationships.
“We're looking at how to support those people,” Karina advises [18:29].
Kian suggests exploring specialized dating apps and local support groups tailored for neurodivergent individuals.
“There's a couple of apps out there... created specifically for people on the spectrum,” Kian recommends [21:03].
A heartfelt clip features Abby and David celebrating their three-year anniversary. Abby sings a song she wrote for David, encapsulating their safe and loving relationship.
“Being with you is easy... We're so good,” Abby sings [21:44].
Karina reflects on their enduring relationship, praising their authenticity and the positive impact they have on viewers.
“Seeing people who are differently abled... become heroes to people in the world, it's just so beautiful,” Karina shares [22:35].
Kian discusses how the show's exploration of universal themes like love, belonging, and empathy resonates with both neurodiverse and neurotypical audiences. He highlights the inspirational role Abby and David play, encouraging others to seek meaningful connections.
“It helps me to want to be a better person and nicer and kinder,” Kian reflects on the show's impact [24:32].
Karina adds that the show serves as a cultural movement, providing role models and fostering a greater understanding of neurodiversity.
“People have these role models now who are autistic,” Karina notes, emphasizing the show's societal influence [24:32].
The episode wraps up with Alison Stewart inviting listeners to engage with the show by sharing their own experiences or questions. She reiterates the availability of season three on Netflix and encourages continuous support for neurodivergent individuals seeking love and connection.
“Love on the Spectrum is a docu series which follows a group of people with autism as they navigate the dating world,” Alison summarizes [12:55].
By focusing on real stories and fostering an environment of understanding and support, “Love on the Spectrum” not only entertains but also educates and inspires, making it a significant cultural contributor to the conversation around neurodiversity and love.