← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Love & War' Follows A Photojournalist On The Battle Front, And The Home Front
00:21:37
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- [00:09]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Lindsay Addario wears many hats. She's a sister, daughter, wife, mother, and one of the world's leading conflict photographers. She's worked in at least 12 war zones from Afghanistan to Libya, and has won the Pulitzer Prize for her work. Her work led the world to see on the front page of the New York Times that Russia was indeed targeting, targeting civilian populations in Ukraine. Her job is intense, dangerous, and the hours are long. She's exposed to the horrific violence on a regular basis and she still flies home in time to make it to her kids recitals. Her marriage is often strained from her commitment to her job. All of this is shown in a new documentary premiering on National Geographic tonight and streaming on Disney and Hulu tomorrow. It's called Love and War. We see Lindsay in bulletproof vests and helmets taking photos. The shelling of civilians in Ukraine, the maternal health crisis in Sudan. The moments before she and her team were kidnapped in Libya. Here's a clip from Love and War, and in it we hear not only strain on her career and how it puts on her family, but in some ways how family strains her career ambitions. Let's listen.
- [01:23]
Lindsay Addario
Where's my mummy?
- [01:24]
Child (Alfred)
Mummy is working.
- [01:25]
Lindsay Addario
Alfred, is it downstairs?
- [01:28]
Child (Alfred)
She's in another country, but she's gonna come back soon. It's the length of assignments that's always been the challenge in our relationship. If it's one week, two weeks, it's not really a big deal. But when it gets longer, over three weeks is always. Things tend to unravel at home in my heart.
- [01:47]
Lindsay Addario
All I want to be doing is shooting. It's frustrating. I'm constantly tortured, like I'm not in the right place. But I come back, I'm supposed to be really happ. I feel like I should be there and I feel like a bad journalist because I'm not. My head is always where I'm not.
- [02:06]
Alison Stewart
Lindsay Addario is in studio with me now. And it's nice to see you.
- [02:09]
Lindsay Addario
It's nice to see you too.
- [02:10]
Alison Stewart
What was it like to be in front of the camera?
- [02:13]
Lindsay Addario
Well, I mean, I know the drill, right? I've been for 25 years, I've been asking people to open up their lives to me. And I've been asking sort of the world of them, you know, in their most vulnerable moments. And I think when I accepted to be the subject of this documentary, I had to think about it before I accepted because I knew that if I said yes, I would have to open up my Life. And that would be the only way to do this in a way that would do justice to the profession and to people like myself who, you know, I'm a parent and I'm a wife, like you said, and a sister and also a war photographer. And I think that we often only see one side of that profession.
- [02:57]
Interviewer/Host 2
How did it come to be? How did this come to be?
- [03:01]
Lindsay Addario
Well, I've been asked a bunch of times to be the subject and sometimes as like one of 10 photographers or, you know, part of a documentary. And it's complicated, you know, it requires not only me sort of having advanced knowledge of where I'm going on assignment, but also asking my subjects to accept me into their lives and also another camera and often a crew. And so I've always sort of shied away from it. I never felt like I was kind of ready for that or that I merited being the subject of a documentary. And then it kind of. I kept seeing all these renditions of war photographers both in Hollywood, you know, fictional versions and also documentaries. Often it was a man or if it was a woman. I just felt like the personal life wasn't properly depicted and. Or there was no personal life, which is quite common in our profession. And so I just finally said yes. And it was the right timing because it was right before the full scale invasion of Ukraine. And it all came together weirdly in those first few weeks of the full scale invasion.
- [04:09]
Interviewer/Host 2
As I watch the film, I know a lot of wartime photographers from my previous life. Was your decision in part to document what you do for your children in case something happens to you?
- [04:22]
Lindsay Addario
Yeah, I mean, I'm always thinking about that. I'm always thinking about, you know, will my children ever understand what, what drives me and why I'm not home and why I miss their birthdays and why I'm not at school when I. When most parents are. And. And it's complicated because I try to be honest with them, but it's, you know, they're young and Alfred's only 6 and Lucas is turning 14 in December. And. And so, yes, one side of me thought, you know, this will live forever and it will be something that they can watch and hopefully understand. A side they will never have access to.
- [05:02]
Alison Stewart
I'm speaking with conflict photographer Lindsey Godario, who's subject of a new documentary premiering on the National Geographic Channel tonight called Love and War. What do you need to be a good wartime photographer?
- [05:18]
Lindsay Addario
You need to be good with people. I think you have to really love people and love and be accepting and Nonjudgmental. I think that's when you get into sort of deeper stories. But I think to do this job, you have to be flexible with your timing and life and commitments. You have to be aware of what's going on in the world, like always paying attention. You have to be very creative about how you deal with authority. And also getting into places. You know, I think people don't realize one of the hardest things about covering war is getting access to people and getting access to a location. And so often it's being dependent on NGOs or organizations that can get you to a place or having a good network of producers or fixers on the ground, local journalists. And then you have to think quick and really be always on your feet making contingency plans. What happens if something goes wrong? You know, how can I save my own life and save the life of the people around me?
- [06:22]
Alison Stewart
Why is photojournalism so important today?
- [06:26]
Lindsay Addario
Well, I think it's more important today than ever because we live in a world where not only is journalism questioned, but truth is questioned and photography is questioned. Photography used to be sort of the be all, end all. Like, if you have a photo, it means it happened. Now you see a photo and you think, is that AI generated?
- [06:45]
Alison Stewart
Or what do you think about AI?
- [06:46]
Lindsay Addario
Yeah, well, it's. It's. I think it's amazing for all the many reasons, but it's very. It complicates the lives of all of us who, who spend our lives going to very difficult places documenting situations. And then I come back and then there's a composite image of the, you know, a similar scene and trying to pass as reality or. The fact is, most people check sort of social media for their news source now, and they don't realize that you can't just follow anyone and take what they put on their feed as fact. You know, we really have to be careful about where we are ingesting images from and information from and. And understand. Is it real? Has it been fact checked? Who are these people? Are they journalists? Are they. Are they civilian, you know, bystanders? I mean, who are they?
- [07:38]
Interviewer/Host 2
You shoot in color?
- [07:39]
Lindsay Addario
I do.
- [07:40]
Interviewer/Host 2
Why do you shoot in color rather.
- [07:41]
Lindsay Addario
Than black and white? You know, I started in black and white and I started. Now I'm really dating myself. But I started shooting like, dear. Maybe 40 years ago and I was, you know, I shot on film and in the darkroom and I loved black and white. But I think when I started moving through the world and when we transitioned to digital after the attacks of September 11 and digital cameras became sort of the expected and we had to file in real time. I really transitioned to color and realized that I, I see the world in color and I, for me it's harder because it's, it's, for me, look, a black and white image is so dramatic and you can do all these alterations with contrast and Photoshop and make it just look like it doesn't matter what light you're shooting in. You can just make any image look dramatic. And so on one hand it's a lot easier to shoot in black and white. But for me, the world is in color and I see the world in color and I feel like that's how I shoot, except for a very rare occasion when I shoot a story. And I just think, okay, maybe this is black and white.
- [08:50]
Interviewer/Host 2
Do you have an instinct for when something's going to happen?
- [08:53]
Lindsay Addario
I do. I have a horrible instinct.
- [08:56]
Interviewer/Host 2
Tell me a little bit about that. Do you get like the hairs on your arms go up? What happens?
- [09:02]
Lindsay Addario
Well, it's a process. I mean, like for example, in Libya where I was captured with three colleagues from the New York Times on March 15, 2011. Leading up, we, I had been working on the front line in Libya for like two weeks and very heavy combat, like full on gun battles and tank rounds coming in and airstrikes and helicopter gunships and literally trying to hide myself into irrigation ditches because the, the ground was so flat. And I, and I got to sort of two weeks in and then I just started to feel this thing like something's about to go wrong. And so much so that I took my hard drive of all my images and gave it to a colleague, Brian Denton, and said if I get killed or if I disappear, can you just make sure my photos make it to my agency? And two days later we got captured and we had no idea if we would survive the kidnapping in Iraq. I also just had this very weird premonition. I mean, I often have a premonition, but it doesn't mean it comes to fruition all the time. I mean, sometimes it doesn't and thank God.
- [10:12]
Interviewer/Host 2
What happens in your mind when you've been kidnapped?
- [10:16]
Lindsay Addario
Well, it's all about staying alive. It's all about trying to stay calm. And for me, weirdly, I'm a very sort of bubbly, like loud, extrovert, you know, but when I'm in these horrible situations, I get very quiet and very focused and I'm okay, kind of just taking it minute by minute and saying like, okay, I just need to get through this minute and then the next minute and, you know, minutes turn into days, which turn into a week. And, you know, it's really just about survival. And I think we as human beings have this incredible survival instinct and I think we have to learn how to rely on that and listen to that because it does exist and it does for me. Luckily it comes out when I need it to. And it's helpful because you. To stay focused and you have to stay calm when you're being kidnapped, essentially.
- [11:17]
Alison Stewart
I'm speaking with photographer Lindsay Addario, who is the subject of a new documentary premiering on the Nat Geo Channel tonight called Love and War. It's about balancing her home life and her demanding and often dangerous career. During the film, we see you cry several times. We see you cursing. Don't curse on the air, by the way. But you go at it a couple of times.
- [11:42]
Lindsay Addario
Sorry.
- [11:44]
Alison Stewart
Please. It's actually reassuring because it shows us that you're, you're human. You're not just a robot taking pictures. What are some of the other ways that you process the trauma that you see? We hear it, we see it, but there have to be other ways that you process it.
- [12:00]
Lindsay Addario
Yeah, I mean, I, I annoyingly and started vaping in Ukraine as like because there was no, there was. You know, we were working 20. We were literally working all the. And there was no outlet. You know, we were always sort of under fire. The first kind of seven weeks of the war, it was very, very intense. And I exercise. For me, my exercise is like a release. It's something that's almost meditation for me. So I work out generally 90 minutes a day. When I'm back in London, it's sometimes two hours a day. Wherever I find time, I exercise. And that really just sort of grounds me, gets my endorphins going and it keeps me sort of happ and grounded. And then the other thing I do is I surround myself with amazing people that I love. You know, friends, family. I have a great sort of. My, my parents, My sisters are incredible.
- [12:57]
Alison Stewart
Your sisters seem pretty hilarious.
- [12:59]
Lindsay Addario
They're, they're.
- [12:59]
Alison Stewart
And they're in the film. They are pretty funny.
- [13:01]
Lindsay Addario
They're really funny. I mean. And that's them tame. I mean, that's like. You know, when we get together over Christmas, you can basically hear us laughing down the street. I mean, it's, it's weird. We have a lot of fun together. And so I have an amazing family and then my husband and my kids. I mean, for me, it's really about being present where I am and enjoying.
- [13:26]
Alison Stewart
That moment, one of the things that comes up in the film is that you and your husband have quite a bit of privilege, financial privilege, and you're able to be able to support people helping you out. Could you do this job without that kind of support?
- [13:45]
Lindsay Addario
I mean, without my husband's support, yeah, it'd be hard. I mean it's, I've been doing this for 25 years and I hustle. I mean I work really hard. I, I don't rely financially on my husband for like my, to run my business, but certainly like the mortgage in the uk, that is something I probably couldn't afford. I mean, when we met I was living in a tiny little apartment for $350 a month in Turkey. And I would probably still be living if I hadn't gotten married. So I think it is a profession that, you know, no matter how long you've been doing it, the day rates don't change depending on your experience. It's like I make the same per day as someone who's just coming into the profession and that's, that's hard because I'm Now, I'll be 52 next week and obviously I have a lot more responsibility than I did when I first started.
- [14:42]
Interviewer/Host 2
How did you feel about being vulnerable about your relationship with your husband on camera?
- [14:48]
Lindsay Addario
I felt like it was important. You know, I'm a journalist and I do not like when a subject is sort of self censoring and I feel like, you know, we would not have said yes or we would just not have included any of our family life because I think if you're, if you're going to open that door, just open it. And so I was lucky because my husband also used to be a journalist and so he felt comfortable. He's also very self confident. He's very sort of grounded in who he is. And I think we both are, I think we both sort of believe in who we are and that's important for a documentary in terms of opening yourself up. Because I am vulnerable. I cry a lot more than I care to sort. It's sort of embarrassing how much I break down. But I, you know, I have been doing this a long time and I'm tired of seeing people suffer. It's hard. And I guess I would be worried if I did not break down at this point. You know, if I was so stoic that nothing affected me.
- [15:54]
Alison Stewart
Has the journalist, has the, has the documentary led to any interesting conversations in your family with your husband?
- [16:05]
Lindsay Addario
I mean, we have these conversations all the time. It's Like a painful life, you know, I think we constantly struggle with how long I'm away, how consecutively I take assignments. You know, that's the other thing. It's like I can do a two week assignment and then come home for three days, and then another story comes up and I have to leave for another two weeks. So it's a month, you know, So I think that's the other thing. And the other thing I do to support myself are speaking engagements. And that cuts it. That also requires me to try. And so, you know, I'm juggling that. I'm writing another book. You know, I'm doing a lot of things to sort of make ends meet and to. And to be able to do this work and to get the word out, essentially. But the conversations are hard because everything requires me to be on the road except for sitting down and writing, essentially.
- [16:57]
Alison Stewart
We got a text here that says, Love and War is a very powerful documentary. So engaging, amazing journalism. Lindsay has enormous courage. Do you think you have courage?
- [17:10]
Lindsay Addario
I do not. Thank you. Thank you, whoever wrote that. I do not think I have courage, but I think that's because I'm surrounded by some of the bravest people on the planet. I mean, I'm usually photographing women in Sudan or who have just fled to neighboring Chad with their kids on their back, you know, watched people die along the way, perhaps were survivors of sexual violence, you know, and they continue to. To sort of stand on two feet and be proud and tell me their stories with the hopes that their stories can help in some way. And so I'm always surrounded by incredible people who live in war constantly and have no escape.
- [17:51]
Alison Stewart
I wanted to ask you about maternal healthcare in Sierra Leone. It's a story that struck with you, but you also changed policy with the work you did. Would you tell us a little bit about the that.
- [18:03]
Lindsay Addario
So in 2009, I won a MacArthur Fellowship, and I really thought about what I could do with it. And at that time, maternal mortality rates were over 550,000 women a year were dying in childbirth, which is extraordinary because most of those deaths were preventable. So I basically went to Sierra Leone. I went to one of the provinces with the highest maternal death rate. In 2010, I went to the maternity ward. I met this young woman, Mama Sise. She had been pregnant with twins, delivered the first baby in the village. The second baby wouldn't come out, so she took a canoe across the river to an ambulance, and then six hours across bumpy roads. And I talked to her at length. When she got to the hospital. She was sort of rehydrating, and we were talking, and when she delivered the second baby, she started bleeding. And I was shooting some video and stills, and I'm saying, like, I think she's bleeding too much. And the midwives were just kind of mopping up the blood. And I said, is there a doctor? And the midwives kind of just laughed at me. And they were like, well, there's one doctor in the whole province. Good luck. And I ran to see if I could just get him there. You know, sometimes as a foreigner, you're able to kind of break through. And I ran into the surgical ward, like, put on scrubs, everything. And I said, I think there's a woman dying. And he. He was obviously busy. So when he came out, they had carried Mama Sise to right outside of the surgical ward, and he pronounced her dead. And she died. And I published this story across eight pages in Time magazine in 2010. And one of the board members from Merck, the pharmaceutical company, saw the story and apparently showed it to a bunch of board members during their meeting for corporate responsibility. They were talking about how to spend money. And I don't think it was the only reason, but certainly it impacted their decision to start Merc for Mothers and put aside $500 million to fight maternal death. And the rates have gone down. They've halved. I mean, maternal death rates are about 220,000 women a year now, I think, or about half of what they were.
- [20:22]
Interviewer/Host 2
In our last moment.
- [20:26]
Alison Stewart
As someone who.
- [20:26]
Interviewer/Host 2
Truly believes in journalism and the moment that we are in and the moment that journalists are faced, what would you say to someone who has sort of a lack of confidence in journalism right now, might want to get out of the business? I've had it. I'm not doing it anymore.
- [20:44]
Lindsay Addario
A journalist?
- [20:45]
Alison Stewart
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Lindsay Addario
I mean, I would say we need you. You know, I would say the world needs freedom of speech, freedom of press. We need journalism more than ever. I think that you, the fake news, all of that, it does a real disservice to a democracy. And I think we have to work hard to make sure our stories are airtight and factually correct.
- [21:09]
Alison Stewart
I have been speaking with conflict photographer Lindsey Azario. She's the subject of a new documentary premiering on Nat Geo Tonight called Love and War. It's balancing her home life and her demanding and often dangerous career. You can also watch it streaming on Disney and Hulu tomorrow. Lindsay, thank you so much for being with us.
- [21:27]
Lindsay Addario
Thank you so much for having me.
- [21:29]
Alison Stewart
There's more.
- [21:30]
Interviewer/Host 2
All of it on the way.
- [21:39]
Lindsay Addario
Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi there.
- [21:41]
Walgreens Employee
Hey.
- [21:42]
Lindsay Addario
All right, hon. I'll grab the gift wrap cards and. Oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.
- [21:49]
Alison Stewart
Great.
- [21:49]
Family Member/Assistant
And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drops?
- [21:55]
Child (Alfred)
This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.
- [21:58]
Lindsay Addario
I'm fine, honey.
- [21:59]
Family Member/Assistant
Well, just in case. You know what they say. Tis the season.
- [22:03]
Alison Stewart
This is help staying healthy through the holidays.
- [22:06]
Walgreens Employee
Walgreens extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in haw, Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.