Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart – “Lyle Ashton Harris: Our First and Last Love”

Original Air Date: July 23, 2024
Guest: Lyle Ashton Harris, artist and photographer
Host: Alison Stewart
Location of Exhibit: Queens Museum, NYC (Through September 22, 2024)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Alison Stewart sits down with acclaimed artist and photographer Lyle Ashton Harris to discuss his mid-career retrospective exhibit “Our First and Last Love” at the Queens Museum. The conversation explores Harris’s personal and professional journey, the themes that permeate his work—such as family, desire, violence, ancestry, and self-love—and the cultural influences that have shaped both his practice and his life. Harris provides insight into the curation and significance of specific works, inviting listeners into the intersection of personal history and social narrative that defines his art.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mid-Career Retrospective: From Hesitancy to Homecoming

• [02:45] Harris describes initial hesitation when first approached about the retrospective during the pandemic:

  “I was a little hesitant because I was thinking, is this gonna be like a retrospective? Is this sort of the death—the death of me? I'm kidding.” — Lyle Ashton Harris

• With guidance, the show became a survey anchored by his recent “Shadow Works” assemblages.
• The current Queens Museum exhibit is a “homecoming,” as it was originally not scheduled to show in NYC.

2. Curatorial Approach: Themes Not Timelines

• [04:26] Unlike conventional retrospectives, the exhibit is organized by the themes of family, desire, and violence.

  “They have clustered the works around certain themes… to see how some of those ideas and concepts have been throughout the work over the last three and a half, four decades.” — Lyle Ashton Harris

• Thematic juxtaposition allows for meaningful contrasts and dialogue between early and recent works.

3. Formative Experiences: Living Across Continents

• [05:50] Harris reflects on his upbringing in the Bronx, living in Tanzania as a child, and teaching in Ghana:
  • Living abroad following his parents’ divorce shaped his worldview and sense of being a “global citizen.”
  • He speaks movingly of his mother’s choice to immerse them in Tanzanian life, attending a local Swahili school:

    “It's hard to imagine, like a young African American boy from the Bronx who has roots in Harlem… to live in an African country ruled by a black African president… it just really widely opened up my purview of what was possible….” — Lyle Ashton Harris

  • The South African exile community in the Bronx, due to his stepfather’s history, was also influential.

4. The Meaning of the Exhibit’s Title: “Our First and Last Love Is Self Love”

• [09:27] The phrase originated from a fortune cookie in the early 1990s, preserved in Harris’s journal and later made into a neon artwork:

  “I was very struck by that… So I kept the fortune. In fact, when people go see the show at the Queens Museum, you'll find the actual journal that I place the fortune in in the early 90s.” — Lyle Ashton Harris

• The neon text first displayed in 1993 on 42nd Street, now shown for the first time again.
• Meaning over decades:

  “It is a question… it beckons us. And so I think in a way, I see it as invitational… to imagine the idea of care. And what does it mean to love oneself, you know, particularly in a world which at times can be brutal and to draw on the beauty of life.” — Lyle Ashton Harris [10:45]

5. Unveiling Old Works: “Billy Dreaming in Blue”

• [12:12] Some photographs, like “Billy Dreaming in Blue,” took years before being printed/exhibited:

  “…Often artists and writers… [make] something, and at the time it's made, it could maybe feel too raw… often work may need time, you know, to gestate… it was a work that felt a little bit too personal, too raw. And I felt like I needed some time.” — Lyle Ashton Harris [12:12]

6. The “Shadow Works” and Ghanaian Fabrics

• [13:11] Harris details the creation and significance of his recent “Shadow Works”—photo collages set against Ghanaian funerary cloth:
  • His academic and personal engagement in Ghana (living there 2005–2012) inspired an appreciation for the rituals and communal aspects of funerary rites.
  • The funerary fabric celebrates both mourning and the continuity of life, an underlying theme in his assemblages:

    “I was struck by just the… ritual… the funerary fabric… there's a celebratory aspect of the continuity of life, if you will.” — Lyle Ashton Harris [15:39]

7. Family, Memory, and Archival Material

• [17:09] Harris’s grandfather, a prolific family photographer, inspired works like “The Good Life” and is honored throughout the show:

  “…my grandfather… shot over 10,000 slides as early as the mid-40s. And—documenting the family, the church community. And… [my] first show in New York called The Good Life, was in collaboration with him… a way of honoring the ancestors…” — Lyle Ashton Harris

• Artifacts and Objects in the Shadow Works (pottery, his own dreadlocks, etc.) carry memory and personal significance.

8. Art as Remembrance and Social Commentary: “Saint Michael Stewart”

• [20:01] Harris describes the making of “St. Michael Stewart, 1994,” a self-portrait in police uniform in memory of the graffiti artist killed by police in 1983:

  “…it was the idea of how does one use art to bring people into a conversation? …art could be used to tell the story again. Because if there's one thing that we suffer from is amnesia, and I'm interested in art that reminds us to go back to tell those stories.” — Lyle Ashton Harris

9. Everyday Abstraction and the Personal Archive

• [21:51] Discussing the “Oak Bluffs” piece, Harris reflects on transforming childhood memories and ordinary objects (like a pinball machine) into abstract photographic works.

10. The Power of Collage and The Archive: “Obsessio/Ossessione”

• [22:42, 23:10] A major wall-sized collage, “Obsessio/Ossessione,” draws from Harris’s rediscovered personal archive of slides:

  “It's really about the working through, because in any book project or exhibition… going through hundreds of images… it's a work that carries in the tradition of using just multiple sources. And there's a combustion to it, you know…” — Lyle Ashton Harris

  • Includes snapshots of major black cultural figures/events (bell hooks, Marlon Riggs, Henry Louis Gates, etc.), news clippings, personal photos—assembled for reflection and community remembrance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Love and Resilience

  “What does it mean to love oneself, particularly in a world which at times can be brutal and to draw on the beauty of life?”
  — Lyle Ashton Harris [10:45]

• On Memory and Art’s Social Work

  “If there's one thing that we suffer from is amnesia, and I'm interested in art that reminds us to go back to tell those stories.”
  — Lyle Ashton Harris [20:46]

• On the Collaborative Curation

  “Clustered the works around certain themes… to see how those ideas and concepts have been throughout the work over the last three and a half, four decades.”
  — Lyle Ashton Harris [04:26]

• On Living in Africa and Identity

  “…it just really widely opened up my purview of what was possible, you know, in terms of, number one, being an American, being an African American, being of a global citizen…”
  — Lyle Ashton Harris [06:43]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:45] Introduction & exhibit context
• [02:45] Harris’ reaction to the retrospective
• [04:26] Thematic structure of the show
• [05:50] Childhood in Tanzania & formative international experiences
• [09:27] Meaning and origin of the show’s title
• [12:12] Delay in printing & showing personal works
• [13:11] Creation of “Shadow Works” using Ghanaian cloth
• [17:09] Influence of family archives and legacy
• [20:01] “Saint Michael Stewart” and art as activism
• [21:51] “Oak Bluffs” and abstraction from daily life
• [22:42, 23:10] Collage process and the “Obsessio/Ossessione”
• [27:27] Close of conversation

Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, personal, evocative, and rooted in lived experience—often reflective and tinged with gratitude and humor. Harris’s voice is intimate, indebted to family and community, and inquisitive about both self and society.

Conclusion

Lyle Ashton Harris’s “Our First and Last Love” is a sweeping, intimate survey of a life lived at the intersection of personal memory, cultural history, and artistic innovation. This episode invites listeners to see not just the artwork, but the web of relationships, rituals, and self-reflections that animate it—offering a resonant take on art, identity, and community.