Marianne Jean-Baptiste on the New Film 'Hard Truths'

Summary

Episode Summary: Marianne Jean-Baptiste on the New Film 'Hard Truths'

All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, features an in-depth conversation with award-winning actress Marianne Jean-Baptiste about her latest project, the film Hard Truths. Released on December 5, 2024, this episode delves into the complexities of Jean-Baptiste's character, the collaborative creative process with director Mike Lee, and the overarching themes of mental health and family dynamics portrayed in the film.

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Introduction to Marianne Jean-Baptiste and Hard Truths

The episode opens with Alison Stewart introducing Marianne Jean-Baptiste, highlighting her acclaimed performance in Hard Truths, which premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in September and was recently honored by the New York Film Critics Circle with a Best Actress award. Stewart notes Jean-Baptiste’s long-standing collaboration with director Mike Lee, referencing their memorable work together in Secrets and Lies, which garnered Jean-Baptiste an Academy Award nomination and a BAFTA nod.

Alison Stewart [02:25]: "Walking Pansy is the main character of the latest film, Hard Truths, written and directed by Mike Lee and stars our next guest, Marianne Jean Baptiste."

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The Character of Pansy Deacon

Jean-Baptiste introduces Pansy Deacon, the protagonist of Hard Truths, a woman grappling with persistent unhappiness, obsessive-compulsive behaviors, and strained relationships with her family. Pansy’s complexity is portrayed through her erratic behavior, oscillating between humor and sadness, making her a multifaceted character that challenges both the actress and the audience.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [01:31]: "You can't go in or out of a supermarket without being harassed by those grinning, cheerful charity workers begging you for money for their stupid causes."

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Acting Process with Director Mike Lee

Jean-Baptiste discusses her unique collaboration with Mike Lee, emphasizing their unconventional approach to character development, which initially lacks a scripted blueprint. Instead, they start with a list of real-life inspirations, gradually merging traits to craft Pansy’s persona. This method requires extensive rehearsals and deep immersion into the character’s psyche.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [03:38]: "You can't be related to them. It could be somebody's, you know, that you walk past on your way to the Metro or what have you. But there's something about them that intrigues you."

She elaborates on the rigorous process, highlighting the three-month rehearsal period dedicated to developing Pansy’s character, ensuring authenticity and depth in her portrayal.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [04:27]: "It takes a long time to cook these characters."

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Family Dynamics and Relationships in the Film

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Pansy’s tumultuous relationships with her husband, Kirtley, and her son, Moses. Jean-Baptiste explores the reasons behind their continued proximity despite evident dysfunction, attributing it to dependence and ingrained habits.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [08:58]: "I would certainly say in the case of Moses, the son, that he doesn't see that he has a choice. He's just quite dependent."

The conversation extends to Pansy’s sister, Chantelle, portrayed as the compassionate confidante striving to support Pansy despite her sister’s abrasive demeanor. Jean-Baptiste underscores the challenges Chantelle faces in trying to help someone battling deep-seated issues.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [11:53]: "She's telling her to cheer up, which isn't very effective if somebody's got some really deep issues and are dealing with depression."

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Filming Experiences and Key Scenes

Jean-Baptiste shares insights into specific scenes, such as the emotionally charged Mother's Day gathering. She recounts the physical discomfort endured during filming and the strategy of using humor among cast members to alleviate tension during intense scenes.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [13:12]: "It was one of the hottest days in London this summer. I had on about four layers of clothing."

The actress reflects on the significance of Pansy's silence in a pivotal scene, emphasizing the power of non-verbal expression in conveying the character’s inner turmoil.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [14:08]: "It was brilliant to just sit there and not say anything."

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Themes of Mental Health and Compassion

Hard Truths delves into themes of mental illness, emotional distress, and the importance of compassion within familial relationships. Jean-Baptiste articulates the film’s intent to foster understanding and empathy towards individuals struggling with mental health issues.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [16:47]: "Just to have a bit of compassion and pause. You know when you berated by that person when you haven't done anything and you think, what the hell. Just realize it's not about me, it's about them."

She encourages audiences to recognize the pain behind challenging behaviors and to approach such situations with empathy rather than confrontation.

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Audience Takeaways

Jean-Baptiste hopes that viewers will relate to the characters through their own experiences with family members and friends who display difficult behaviors. By presenting diverse perspectives within the family, the film aims to highlight the varying impacts of upbringing and personal struggles.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [15:42]: "Everybody's got a family, you know, so it's seeing things from different perspectives."

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Future Projects and Current Work

Concluding the interview, Jean-Baptiste briefly mentions her ongoing engagement with promoting Hard Truths and enjoying the collaborative rapport with director Mike Lee. She expresses gratitude for the film’s positive reception and the shared joy in bringing the story to audiences.

Marianne Jean-Baptiste [17:09]: "I'm working on talking about this film non stop and it's great."

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Conclusion

Marianne Jean-Baptiste’s discussion on Hard Truths offers a comprehensive look into the creation and thematic substance of the film. Her insights into character development, the portrayal of complex family dynamics, and the significance of empathy provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the film’s narrative and emotional core. This episode of All Of It not only celebrates Jean-Baptiste’s artistic achievements but also invites the audience to engage thoughtfully with the pressing cultural and psychological issues depicted in Hard Truths.

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Notable Quotes:

• Marianne Jean-Baptiste [01:31]: "You can't go in or out of a supermarket without being harassed by those grinning, cheerful charity workers begging you for money for their stupid causes."
• Marianne Jean-Baptiste [04:27]: "It takes a long time to cook these characters."
• Marianne Jean-Baptiste [16:47]: "Just to have a bit of compassion and pause."

Transcript

[WNYC Announcer]

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. On today's show, we'll hear from the National Book Award winner Percival Everett, whose novel James is a retelling of Huck Finn, will also speak with director Errol Morris and reporter Jacob Soboroff about their new documentary Separated and will mark the 30th anniversary of the Nolita Institution Cafe Jardin. That is the plan. So let's get this started with actor Marianne Jean Baptiste. In the corner house of a quiet London street lives Pansy Deacon, a tempest of a woman who can't seem to be happy no matter what she does. She obsessively cleans the house. She lashes out at anyone in her path and when she's not doing that, she's in bed. Sometimes she's funny and sometimes she's sad. She has her husband and her only son walking on eggshells. Her sister is flummoxed and she is that person you run into the store and she will go on and on. Let's listen to a clip of Pansy at her own dinner table.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

You can't go in or out of a supermarket without being harassed by those grinning, cheerful charity workers begging you for money for their stupid causes. Why they gotta skin their teeth like that? Cheerful, grinning people. Can't stand them loitering out there demanding your hard earned cash.

It's a scam.

They're scamming people.

Can't trust them.

They want your phone number, your email.

I asked one of them, I said.

Why do you want my postcode? I might as well just give you my front door key so you can.

Bruck into my house, teeth out my.

Things and kill my only child. And nobody calls the police on them. Police won't come anyway. They're too busy harassing black boys.

[Alison Stewart]

Walking Pansy is the main character of the latest film, Hard Truths, written and directed by Mike Lee and stars our next guest, Marianne Jean Baptiste. It premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in September and opens in select theaters this Friday. Jean Baptiste was just named Best Actress by the New York Film Critics Circle. Of course, she's worked with lee for nearly 30 years. Who remembers Secrets and Lies? I do. It earned her both an Academy Award nomination and a BAFTA nod. It is so nice to see you, Marianne.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah, thank you. Nice to see you too.

[Alison Stewart]

So you've done countless television roles. Seven seasons on Without a Trace.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You've done movies, what Does a project need to have for you to say yes?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oh, gosh, it's got to be something that's going to challenge me. I've got to feel like I'm going to have a good time, you know, but learn something and shift something in.

[Alison Stewart]

Myself, you know, the way that Mike.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Lee works is he doesn't really. There's not really a script, at least initially.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

There is no script?

[Unknown Interviewer]

No, there is no script. You come with an idea, a list of ideas. What ideas did you bring towards Pansy? When you first started, heard about Pansy, and then you brought the ideas.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, you don't actually bring any ideas either. The whole thing is about. The list is about real people, you know, in life.

[Alison Stewart]

Interesting, right?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

They can't. You can't be related to them. It could be somebody's, you know, that you walk past on your way to the Metro or what have you. But there's something about them that intrigues you. Well, you have a list of people that you go in and you discuss that list of people with him. And then the list gets smaller and smaller and smaller until you sort of land on about five of those people. Then you start to try and merge them into one person with their characteristics. You remove some. You put some in from here and there and there. And then that's. That is really the beginning of the character that you start building. And then you go on and. I mean. I mean, look, rehearsals were like three months long.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

It takes a long time to cook these characters.

[Alison Stewart]

Could you give us an example of something that made it into Pansy, Something that was on your list?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oh, gosh. I think what. You wouldn't be able to recognize any of the people from Pansy, but what you do recognize is the stuff that Mike Lee does, the Mike Lee magic. When you're discussing these characters, he's in charge of disappointments, of things that hurt, things that go wrong. Anything you can plan for yourself as a person, you can plan for the character. But any of the other stuff, he decides. So I think it's his fault. What you see on camera is like her fears, her disappointments, you know, her heartbreaks.

[Alison Stewart]

What is it that you wanted to explore with Pansy?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oh, gosh, it's the process, really. It is the process of creating a character. You use so much of yourself. Do you know what I mean? It's a full body experience when you go through the Mic Lee process. So really, I just wanted that. I just wanted to be in a place where you're collaborating with the production designer. You're collaborating with costume and makeup. You know, they're not just people you meet every morning, say hi, or hang up your clothes. You're actually discussing, what would Pansy wear? Well, she wouldn't wear that or she wouldn't wear that, and, you know, she'd stick to those colors. And everybody sort of, like, works together.

[Unknown Interviewer]

As an actor, I mean, you were kind of. You said in one interview that you were alone for a lot of the production of this film, and it must be a lot to be alone with Pansy.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

So what was it like to sort.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Of summon up all your energy to put into Pansy, especially when you're alone?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Bloody exhausting is what it is. But when I was alone, I mean, Mike's very strict about coming out of character when you're not in character. Come out. Do you know what I mean? So you're not taking home the whole weight of what Pansy is. But obviously, there's still some residual intrusive thoughts, for example, with her. But I'd go home and I'd do things that she didn't like doing, like cook. I enjoy cooking. So I'd go and I'd. You know.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You make a mess.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah, make a mess. Leave things around, you know.

[Unknown Interviewer]

When you are describing Pansy to someone, how would you describe her if they. If nobody had ever met Pansy? Oh, this is Pansy. And she is what?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

She's tricky. You know, she's not easy. Yeah, poor Pansy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Poor Pansy. There were times when sometimes she's really funny.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And then other times you really feel like, oh, my gosh, there's something that she might be ill. She might be wrong. She might be confused. How did you negotiate the very funny sides of her and the sharper sides of her?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, the thing is, I've got a great sense of humor. Pansy doesn't. Right. She's funny, but she doesn't mean to be, you know, so basically, it was really about using her imagination, using the fact. Her observation. Because she's very observant, you know, it's just that the things that she observes that we might observe, we might find them cute, but she finds them irritating. So it was really playing with that, going back and forth, going, okay, what would she think about that? What would she think about this?

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Marianne Jean Batiste. She's in the new film Hard Truth, which is about a woman expressing emotional and mental distress. It's in theaters this Friday. You know, when she. She's talking about. Well, first of all, is this Is, does Pansy exist post pandemic or pre pandemic or during pandemic?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

She's post pandemic.

[Alison Stewart]

That's a big part of it, right?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, I mean, they lived through it. But if you imagine Pansy from watching the film, she probably was pretty much the same before lockdown.

[Alison Stewart]

Everything.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

She hated everything before lockdown and she hates them even more now.

[Alison Stewart]

Her husband and her son. They seem afraid of her a little bit. A little bit. They're certainly exasperated by her. But they don't leave. They don't leave the home. Why do you think they stay?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

I would certainly say in the case of Moses, her son, the son that he doesn't see that he has a choice. You know, he's just quite dependent. The husband. I think it's habit, you know, it's habit for Kirtley.

[Alison Stewart]

Like she's going to do it, she'll talk over it and it'll happen again.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah, it's habit. It's the way he's lived for so long and yeah, just. I mean, we see couples like that all the time and you kind of go, oh my God, they don't even speak.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. You know, it was interesting with Moses because he's a 22 year old, he's living at home, but he's still reading kids books. He's kind of playing with kids toys. He gets bullied by the young guys on the street. What do you imagine is the root of Moses? He's not really engaging with the world.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, I think it's probably to do with Pansy and the way that he's been brought up and her demands, do you know what I mean? Because she certainly does want the best for him.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

You know, but her methods are questionable, you know, and I just think he's. He's been beaten down.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah, I think he's been beaten down. He's not got any confidence.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

It's funny because the family is kind of dysfunctional.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oh, kind of. I mean, they're dysfunctional. There's no kind of about it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

What keeps them from addressing the dysfunction?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

I think it's habit again. I think it's that thing whereby we know that a friend or a relative is an alcoholic or there's some other issue and we kind of skirt around it. We kind of sort of don't want to sort of upset them by telling them that they ought to go and get help or what have you. And so we just sort of get on with it. And I think they just get on with It.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Pansy's sister, Chantelle, she's a single mom. She's a hairstylist, hair braider. She listens to her clients problems all day long. She seems to be the only one who has compassion for her sister. Why does she. Why does she listen to her sister?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, they were brought up in the same home. I think that again, she's just grown up with this woman who's first of all, this young woman and, you know, now, and she loves her dearly. It's obvious that she loves her sister, but, yeah, I don't think she'd ever sort of turn her back on Pansy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

How is she trying to help her? How is she trying to help her Panty?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

We're not very well. I mean, she's kind of telling her to cheer up, which isn't very effective if somebody's got some really deep issues and are dealing with depression. I think she just tries to be there for Pansy as best as she can, you know, but that in itself is not easy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Why not?

[Alison Stewart]

Just because of who Pansy is.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Because Pansy's gonna complain and Pansy's gonna blame. And Pansy's gonna, you know, kick off.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, it's interesting because Chantel's daughters seem like they have it all together, but not really, as we learn.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

I thought that was an interesting part of the film. Sort of the family dynamics, because they seem like they're great, but they're not really great.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Actually, they're not great. Well, one's not as open as you would have hoped that she would be. Do you know what I mean? And you go, ooh, what's this about? What's this about?

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, there's an interesting scene. I don't want to give too much away, but it's. It's Mother's Day.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Oi.

[Alison Stewart]

And all the characters are in the same room. Would you tell me a little bit about filming that? Because everybody's at a different place in that room.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Emotionally, they are.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

They are. I mean, it was. It was a tough day because I think it was one of the hottest days in London this summer. I had on about four layers of clothing.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, my gosh.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

So we were sat there, like, baking in that room. But what I can say, it is quite a heavy scene. Every time we had a break, we'd go off to this little green room and roar with laughter and make jokes, just, you know, to just dispel the tension and all that stuff.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It was interesting because. And correct me if I'm wrong, Pansy doesn't really speak during the family meeting.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah. And it's like the first time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, it's the first time in the film she's quiet. So, first of all, for you as an actor, yay.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

But it was brilliant to just sit there and not say anything.

[Alison Stewart]

As you were sitting there and you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Were listening to everything going on around you, what was Pansy thinking? And then also, what were you thinking?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Well, Pansy was sitting there just thinking that she just didn't want to be there. She really wanted to go home and just lie down and just, you know, because she has a problem with sleep. So she does. You see her in the film being woken up constantly. Do you know what I mean?

[Unknown Interviewer]

The first thing in the scene is her just, like, screaming in bed, right?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah. So she's always being woken up by something or someone. So, I mean, at this point, she's just exhausted and wants to go home and curl up and think about what's just happened at the cemetery.

[Unknown Interviewer]

This is a hard question. Does Pansy recognize that she has a bit of mental illness? No, she doesn't know. She just decides that this is who I am and this is the way I'm gonna be.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's. It's that thing where you just get on with it. If from a young age nobody's paid any attention to it, hasn't called anything up, you just get on with it.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Marianne Jean Baptiste. She's the star of the new film Hard Truth. The film is out to the critics, necessarily to the public. Will happen on Friday, but it's already won some honors. Congratulations to you.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think people are seeing in this story that they're relating to?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

I think they're seeing their relatives, some of their friends, the people that they have in their life that they sometimes try and avoid, feel that they have to manage. I think they're seeing that everybody's got a family, you know, so it's seeing things from different perspectives. Like, two women raised by the same mother can have so such different experiences of what their upbringing was.

[Alison Stewart]

That's interesting because Pansy's house is very clean and sterile versus her sister's house. Got a plants going and they have a beer on the porch and everything. I'm sorry, continue. I'm sorry, yeah.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

No. So it is about sort of understanding the differences and embracing them almost, you know, and having compassion for that difficult person who's obviously in pain.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you want people to take away from the film?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Just to have a bit of compassion and pause. You know when you, you'll berated by that person when you haven't done anything and you think, what the hell. Just realize it's not about me, it's about them. They're going through something. If I rise to that, then it's going to get into a fight potentially. So just let it go.

[Alison Stewart]

What are you working on?

[Unknown Interviewer]

What are you working on now?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

I'm working on talking about this film non stop and it's great.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you like, do you like the whole press tour?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I know it's a little bit grueling.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

It's lovely. It is grueling. But it has been, the film has been so well received and we had such a great time making it. So it's like a celebration of that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You guys look like you're having fun and all the, the videos I've seen with you and Mike Lee, you look like you're actually enjoying it.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Yeah. Yeah. Why?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Why?

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

We have this, a similar sense of humor and I think we just feel quite grateful.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

For this. To be able to share this with. With audiences.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the film is Hard Truths.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It'll be a limited release on December 6, streaming in January. My guest has been Marianne Jean Baptiste. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Marianne Jean Baptiste]

Thank you.

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