Memoir and Biography Week: The Life of Mike Tyson

Summary

All Of It: Memoir and Biography Week – The Life of Mike Tyson

Episode Release Date: July 31, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Mark Kriegel, Author of “Baddest: The Making of Mike Tyson”

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, Alison Stewart delves deep into the multifaceted life of boxing legend Mike Tyson. As part of the show's Memoir and Biography Week, Stewart welcomes Mark Kriegel, a seasoned sports writer and author of the newly released biography, “Baddest: The Making of Mike Tyson.” Together, they explore Tyson's tumultuous journey from his challenging upbringing in Brownsville, Brooklyn, to his rise as the heavyweight champion of the world, and the complexities that follow his legendary status.

Mike Tyson's Early Life and Rise in Boxing

The conversation begins with an overview of Tyson's origins. Born in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, in 1966, Tyson's early years were marked by poverty and violence in the Brownsville neighborhood during the turbulent 1970s. An adolescent Tyson caught the attention of the legendary boxing coach Cus D'Amato, who saw potential in the young fighter. As Kriegel explains, “Tyson was raised in Brownsville in the turbulent 70s... he caught the attention of legendary boxing coach Cus D'Amato” [00:09].

Recognizing his raw talent, D'Amato took Tyson under his wing, moving him to his home in Catskill, New York. This mentorship was pivotal in shaping Tyson's boxing career and personal development. Kriegel highlights the duality of Tyson's story: “In some ways, Tyson's story is a triumphant one. He rose out of poverty to become the heavyweight champion of the world...” [00:09].

Mark Kriegel's Perspective: From Villain to Admiration

Mark Kriegel shares his longstanding relationship with Mike Tyson, initially viewing him as a villain in his columns. “He was a large part of my tabloid education. He was also what he became when I became a columnist. He became my designated villain,” Kriegel admits [01:16]. However, as Kriegel delved deeper into Tyson's life for his biography, his perspective shifted. He came to admire Tyson's resilience and the remarkable nature of his comebacks. “What became apparent to me is that he's the greatest comeback I've ever seen,” Kriegel states [02:16].

The Influence of Brownsville and Tyson's Family Background

Kriegel paints a vivid picture of Brownsville as a birthplace of notoriety, comparing it to a modern-day dystopia. “I looked back at Brownsville... it's a full on dystopia,” he remarks [06:06]. Tyson's upbringing was starkly influenced by his fractured family life. His father was absent, and his mother was described as a “destroyed, impaired figure from the beginning” [05:01]. This unstable family environment contributed significantly to Tyson's struggles with violence and emotional turmoil.

Tyson's Reputation and Public Image

Tyson's reputation evolved from "Dirty Mike" to a feared heavyweight champion. Kriegel discusses how Tyson cultivated his intimidating image both inside and outside the ring. “He was known as Dirty Mike. But later, as he found this facility with his hands, he became terrifying,” Kriegel explains [12:44]. This fearsome persona was not just a byproduct of his boxing prowess but a carefully managed aspect of his public image, enhancing his status as a formidable opponent.

Media Persona and the Role of Fame

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Tyson's media presence and how his unique characteristics, such as his high-pitched voice and lisp, contributed to his celebrity status. Kriegel notes, “When the mic is put in front of Tyson and he begins to talk and you hear the lisp and you hear the high pitch... you have a completely unique character on television” [16:58]. This blend of aggression in the ring and vulnerability outside it made Tyson a captivating figure for audiences and a valuable asset for networks like HBO.

Tyson's Relationships and Personal Life

Kriegel delves into Tyson's personal relationships, particularly his marriage to Robin Givens. He portrays their union as both a genuine love story and a means for Tyson to fill the emotional void left by his dysfunctional family. “Robin and her mother... was extraordinary. She was driven... he keeps trying to fill this mommy hole,” Kriegel observes [21:03]. Their marriage, however, was tumultuous and ultimately contributed to Tyson's further descent into personal struggles.

Conclusion: The Complexity of Mike Tyson's Legacy

The episode concludes with a reflection on the profound impact of fame on Tyson's life. Kriegel asserts, “Fame... insulated him from consequence... he never heard no until it was too late,” highlighting how Tyson's celebrity both elevated and hindered him. Despite his notorious reputation and personal challenges, Tyson remains a figure of immense complexity and resilience.

Notable Quotes

• "What became apparent to me is that he's the greatest comeback I've ever seen." – Mark Kriegel [02:16]
• "I looked back at Brownsville... it's a full on dystopia." – Mark Kriegel [06:06]
• "When the mic is put in front of Tyson and he begins to talk and you hear the lisp and you hear the high pitch... you have a completely unique character on television." – Mark Kriegel [16:58]
• "He never heard no until it was too late." – Mark Kriegel [24:37]

Final Thoughts

Mark Kriegel's “Baddest: The Making of Mike Tyson” offers an in-depth exploration of one of boxing's most enigmatic figures. Through insightful interviews and meticulous research, Kriegel presents a nuanced portrayal of Tyson, shedding light on the man behind the legend. This episode of All Of It serves as a compelling companion to the book, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Mike Tyson's life, legacy, and the cultural context in which he became an icon.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

You're listening to ALL OF IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's continue our biography and memoir week here on ALL OF it. The story of boxing Boxing champion Mike Tyson is it's a New York story. Born in Fort Greene in 1966, Tyson was raised in Brownsville in the turbulent 70s. As an adolescent, he caught the attention of legendary boxing coach Cus d'. Amato. He ended up moving to d' Amato's home in Catskill, New York, to train under him. In some ways, Tyson's story is a triumphant one. He rose out of poverty to become the heavyweight champion of the world. He became a household name, a very wealthy man. But Tyson's story is also a complicated one. He was a troubled kid who often resorted to violence and theft. As an adult, he could be sweet, but he could also turn violent. Tyson was convicted of rape in 92 and has been accused of domestic abuse. Sports writer and author Mark Riegel has spent years covering Mike Tyson's career, and now he captures the boxer's early years in his new biography, baddest the Making of Mike Tyson. It is out now. Mark, welcome to all of it.

[Mark Kriegel]

Thank you so much.

[Alison Stewart]

Alison, you've been covering Tyson for many, many years. Before you wrote the book, before you had the idea for the book, what was your opinion of Mike Tyson?

[Mark Kriegel]

My opinion? Well, he was a large part of my tabloid education. He was also what he became when I became a columnist. He became my designated villain. And it's a role he performed at admirably. I don't know, I might have been less admirable, but he certainly fit the bill. And I mean, I found myself drawn back to Tyson again and again and again because I had the misfortune of covering boxing or a fascination with boxing and writers and fighters. So he provided a great deal. I will say that this particular book as it began, I was more than a little reluctant to do what changed.

[Alison Stewart]

After your the time you spend on a biography.

[Mark Kriegel]

Again, the editor had to kind of convince me. He goes, would you consider Tyson? And my first reaction was, absolutely not. I'm not going to revisit the brash young genius. I use the term advisedly that I was as a young newspaper columnist. I didn't want to really see my own excesses or have to answer to them. And I guess everyone has his or her own process. But at some level, I have to fall in love with the subject. Not to be uncritical, but Tyson was someone I certainly did not love. I spent most of the 90s villainizing him. But you get older, you get beaten down a bit and humbled. And what became apparent to me is that he's the greatest comeback I've ever seen. And that just by virtue of his being alive at any juncture in the Tyson story. And it was something that both his acolytes and his detractors like me, could agree on. Wherever you were in the Tyson story, the smart bet when it pertains to his mortality was you take the under, because he could have gone at any time. And it was an expectation that he himself had. He never, you know, he didn't imagine living beyond 30, then 40, then 50. The idea that he's in this very peculiar place in American culture now where he's, of all things, beloved. I'm not entirely sure I can explain it, but it's an extraordinary comeback. And even if you look, as I do habitually at the lives of the lives of fighters, it's the third act where the tragedy typically strikes. In both make believe fighters and real life fighters, they're compromised neurologically, physically. They're broke, they're busted out. It's sort of the basis for boxing mythology. And Tyson, of all things, is thriving. And the book begins with a scene watching him in Orange County, California, of all places. Watching, watching him watch his daughter play tennis. Play tennis. And it's, it's. And what I think about is that he, he out, he out. He went beyond my capacity to, to imagine, which to me was profound. And I, I did find something, if not to love, then certainly to admire. By what he had withstood, you had perspective.

[Alison Stewart]

It sounds like you grew to have a wider perspective.

[Mark Kriegel]

He outlasted boxing, which is a considerable accomplishment in itself. Bankruptcy, Don King, booze, cocaine, incarceration, both as a juvenile and an adult. Again, I said boxing. But, but the, his mother was, his mother was really a destroyed, impaired figure from the beginning. His dad was absent. You spoke before about, about Brownsville and I'd done a lot of reporting in Brownsville, Brooklyn, you know, mostly covering, covering cops and drug dealers. And it was a mythical place to me because it's really the original home of Murder Incorporated. When I was, when I began covering Brownsville as a, as essentially a police reporter, late 80s, the same streets had produced yet another Murder Incorporated. And that's what Tyson came out of, the big crack dealers and all those stick up kids were his contemporaries.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, well, somebody in the book says that Mike's family was the streets.

[Mark Kriegel]

Yeah. And this was a guy who was himself a Famous ball player and a recovering drug addict. Hey, man, I had it lucky. I had all my drunk uncles. I had, I had, you know, my grandma and Mike's family was, was the street. And when I look back at Brownsville, it's passed in the 20s or in the 30s, may seem romantic, but what it had become by the 70s, it was, you know, just block after block of rubble strewn lots. And then in the middle of it, some genius urban planner said, let's stick the greatest concentration of housing projects outside the Soviet Union right in the middle of Brownsville. So what it really was to me in rediscovering the neighborhood ghetto seems insufficient. It's a full on dystopia.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Mark Kriegel. He is the author of the new biography Baddest the Making of Mike Tyson. Now, you interviewed Mike Tyson twice for this book, but not sort of a regular interview. What were the purposes of these conversations for you as a writer?

[Mark Kriegel]

Yeah, there's a pretty voluminous record of what he said when and in point of fact, I actually wanted to rely less on remembrances. I. Unless they were spectacular or really reconstructed something substantial in the narrative I wanted to consult. I'm a newspaper, I'm an ex newspaper guy. And there's this incredible record of day by day who said what? When I try never to ask the subject for too much cooperation because I'll be seduced, I'll be corrupted. All I wanted from him. And again, I had no expectation he was going to volunteer to tell his life story once again from Mark Kriegel for free. Just don't interfere, like, let me do it. And. And he was more than amenable. So typically what would happen is a source who was on the fence would call his wife Kiki and she'd say, yeah, it's okay to talk to Kriegel. And I was more than grateful for that. There is one point in our conversation where I do quote him in the prologue. He had this legendary trainer, Customato, who had. This is on point with the whole book, who had really nourished several generations of writers, newspaper columnists, magazine writers who loved to write about boxing, Gay talese, Norman Mailer, a guy who was like my rabbi in the newspaper business, Pete Hamill, but also Robert Lipside, who wrote a spectacular young adult novel, the Contender. It's all taken from the custom motto, almost Theology of fear and how to deal with bullies. So I asked him in recasting Cus, the tendency among writers is to mythologize Cus and to love on him. But I saw something different. And what I saw was a guy who takes a kid who's 13 years old out of a juvenile lockup, and he's saying, you can get anything you want. You can have anything you want, but you're going to be the biggest, the baddest, the best. You're going to go down in history is that. And what he's really saying to him is, you're going to make me, the trainer, live forever. And this is largely a story set into motion a by the trainer's ego and by the writers mythologizing that trainer. So Tyson pushes back. He gets a little upset. He goes, well, didn't I? And I think that he did. The question is, at what price?

[Alison Stewart]

There's a list of people that you interview in the back of the book, and there are some women, like Rosie Perez is interviewed, but it's largely men. Is that a boxing thing or is that a Mike Tyson thing?

[Mark Kriegel]

I thought that almost as a rule, the women I spoke to, kid from high school, Rosie, a woman female boxer, really early boxer, became a trainer. Their take on Tyson was almost invariably more perceptive than the guys. But you're dealing with, especially at that time, a largely male universe. The cast of characters is male. And I think that because there are very few female voices heard from. And Tyson's. I'm not trying to sound like Freud here, but Tyson's central conflict has to do with his mom. It's a problem in the book. It's a problem with. I should. I don't know if it's a problem in the book, because it is what it is. It is what it is problem for Tyson.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Mark Kriegel]

And that, you know, this book ends in 1988, before the. Before the rape trial. But you can see. You can see where things are headed. But. But there he hears almost exclusively male voices, and they're always giving him permission. The irony is the, that the. The big. The central wound is his father leaves his mother, and for whatever reason his. Or for a variety of reasons, his mother is broken, and he can never fix that. And by the time it's clear he's going to become Mike Tyson, the famous boxer, there. There's nothing he can give to her that's going to change the course or nothing he can give to her that will get her recognition. So it's this hole he can never fill.

[Alison Stewart]

We're talking about the book Baddest, the Making of Mike Tyson. It's by Mark Kriegel. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Mark Kriegel. He is the author of a new biography, baddest the Making of Mike Tyson. What was Mike Tyson's reputation around Brownsville?

[Mark Kriegel]

He was feared. I mean, at first he was, as they say, punked. He was known as Dirty Mike. But later, as he found this facility with his hands, he became terrifying. And a lot of what this book is about is reputation, and it's Tyson's reputation as the scary guy, which. It certainly doesn't help him in his life. And I think it's one of the reasons why he became healthier after he stopped fighting. But he uses it to great effect as a fighter. I think it has to do not just with Brownsville, where he acquired this reputation and everything, especially in boxing, is, Is your street. Is your street rep. But, but he also cultivated. He also cultivated it in jail. And I think that. That the periods of incarceration as a kid were actually central to his. To his formation. And the irony and Tyson's peculiar genius as a fighter was that d' Amato had this beautiful, elegant, almost theological conception of fear and how the noble fighter stands up to the bully. And it made him. Again, it made him a darling of so many writers. But the irony is that Tyson's genius was not so much overcoming his fear, but becoming the bully. And the way. And the way he refracted fear and made his opponents scared to death. There's a passage in the book where a veteran matchmaker recalls, and this is Tyson when he's 18, 19 years old, having to literally push guys, push opponents out of the locker room to face him. And it goes to something central in, in. In Dato's theory, which is that the idea of the scary guy, if you let it germinate in your head, is infinitely more frightening than the actual guy. And, and it's one of the things that. And I've seen this from male, female fighters across the board. There were, in the fight construct, there's you, there's the other guy, or the. Or the other woman, and there's the audience. And this is all being played out for the audience. And the audience might. Might as well be the street. The audience is your reputation. And what, what fighters actually fear more than anything. It's not. It's not getting beat up, it's not being hurt, but it's humiliation in front of the audience. And Tyson was a master at that. And for, for. For a variety of Reasons. The. The visuals of him knocking people out. This is. This is just as we discovered. Oh, there's a vcr. We can make a tape and send this around to every news director and sports editor around the country. They were neatly packaged knockouts, and they were unique. They were unique in their theatrics, in their brutality. When he wins the title, the other guy, Trevor Berbick, who was not an inconsequential champion, falls in every corner of the ring. And what that did visually was scare to death all prospective opponents.

[Alison Stewart]

But let's talk about his audio. Let's talk about his lisp, because that's a really big issue for people who haven't heard it or need to be reminded of it. Let's listen to this 1985 interview with Bryant Gumbel, and we can talk about it on the other side.

[Mark Kriegel]

Are you gonna be heavyweight champion one day? Excuse me, Sam. Are you gonna be a heavyweight champion one day? Most definitely. As good as I know. Tuesday, follow Monday. Really? Yeah. Do you think you're unbeatable? No one's unbeatable. What's it gonna take to beat you? It's gonna take what this was not around today. It's gonna be a long time, I believe, for anyone here to come up and beat Mike Tyson, I can say.

[Alison Stewart]

Honestly, he had a high voice, he had a lisp and A lisp. What was his sensitivity to that?

[Mark Kriegel]

Well, when he was a kid, you know, early on as Dirty Mike, it was reason alone to question his masculinity, to make fun of him, to cast him aside, to humiliate him. What it does as a fighter and what it does in a broadcast situation. When he comes to hbo, when he comes to abc, you know, there weren't that many. Like, you know, there weren't an infinite number of chats. But what happens with the audience is there's a term in wrestling to get over means just become a star. You break through. And it's not something that can be calibrated or quantified, but, you know, when it happens, and it happens to me, not just with the knockouts, but when the mic is put in front of Tyson and he begins to talk and you hear the lisp and you hear the high pitch, and you're trying to reconcile with what you're listening to and what he's saying with the terrible theatrical knockout that you just, let's be honest, just been thrilled by. So in reconciling that, you have a completely unique character on television, which there are not that many unique characters on Network television at that time. And the result of it, it wasn't a downtime for boxing, but it. But it was a downtime for heavyweight boxing, which is the money division. And HBO recognized what they had in Tyson, and in terms of demographics and cable subscriptions, which was the game then they. They invested again and again in Tyson to do. Tyson did for HBO in the 80s what Tony Soprano would do in the late 90s, which was conquer the male demographic. And it was worth a whole hell of a lot of money.

[Alison Stewart]

He was a real celebrity. He was. I remember growing up, he was a huge celebrity. And that was a little bit different.

[Mark Kriegel]

Yeah, I mean, it was different in that. I don't remember. I was born in New York. I know the history of New York fighters. There was nothing, nothing like this. And there were so many permutations to it. I didn't want to write. This did not start as, As a. As a biography. I wanted to write a slim, elegant essay which apparently is. Is beyond my. My ability, but it. It becomes more biographical because unlike anyone I've ever covered, he generates so much story. There are so many elements of it that are unexpected. You know, like for, for instance, the Rosie piece where he. What he. Much to his detriment, the one words he. One word he never hears is no, except in these peculiar times. Rosie hits on Rosie, and Rosie just shuts him down. And. And she kind of smushes his face. It's kind of. It's a cute scene. And Rosie is written, I think, pretty well of her own childhood. And I said, rosie, you know, everyone else was scared to death of him. How do you. She just shut him down. I can't say it on the air, but it's. It's kind of cute. But I said, how did you know? And she says to me, you know, the, The. The phrase. And it's a phrase in sports. You know, game knows game.

[Alison Stewart]

It's a game.

[Mark Kriegel]

But then she says to me, well, you know, abuse and dysfunction. Knows abuse and dysfunction. And at some level, yeah, she knew who he was at that core because of her history. It's like, you know, she sparked it out immediately. And I thought that, again, this was. This was consistent but unique to most of the women I interviewed. They had a quicker and deeper insight into Tyson than the guys who were carried away by all the usual, like, knockout stuff.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, what did you make of his marriage to Robin Givens, then?

[Mark Kriegel]

To me, as I remember it and as I have reported it, I started at the Daily News in 1988, and my first Tyson assignment was woken up in the middle of the night. Editor says, go up to Harlem. He just got into a fight with this guy named Mitch Green. And where. Dapper Danz. I'm like, is Dapper Danz? No, it's a. It's a clothing store. Just get up there. Go. Okay. And it was a great story, great front page story. It was kind of funny. Punched Mitch Green. Mitch Green performed for the cameras. When I look back on that, it was a guy coming apart who certainly didn't have the capacity to deal with this type of fame. And when he really started to come apart was with his marriage. It's interesting to think that today, where there seems to be no stigma to anything, his then manager wanted him to be married immediately because they thought that he was having a child out of wedlock now. And Mike was first marketed as a kind of retro figure and certainly not a villain. He was a hero. He was. He was going to be this generation's Jack Dempsey. He was. He was the fighter your father and your grandfather had rooted for. And it was something that. That harkened back to when America was more innocent or more virtuous or whatever it was. But that was the cel with Tyson, so they were loath to have him. You know, Robin, Robin's mother told Jimmy Jacobs, Tyson's manager, she was pregnant, so you better. You better get on the stick. There's great evidence to the contrary. But Tyson was certainly in love with her. There's something about her that, I don't know, it seemed unattainable. But would I submit is that Robin and her mother, who was really an extraordinarily formidable woman, for a black woman to succeed as she did in business in. In the 60s and 70s and 80s, was extraordinary. She did it with no one doing her any favors, but she was driven. And she was also driven for her daughters to marry. Well, I think I believe with all my heart that as much as Tyson loved Robin, he also loved the idea that she came in as a package with her mother. Because again, he keeps trying to fill this mommy hole. So he falls for Robin, not despite the fact that she has a domineering mother, but in large measure because of it. And even as a kid on the amateur circuit, whenever he befriended a fighter who traveled with a family, he would always sidle up to the mom, to the mother. There's a story I have early in the book when he just gets out of lockup. There's a woman, this woman I told you about before, her name is Nadia, became a fighter and a trainer. And she remembers him falling asleep on the couch. And he looks up at her, he's 13 years old, and he says, will you tuck me in? And I'm wondering if there's like a terrible punchline to this. She goes, no, he just wanted me to tuck him in.

[Alison Stewart]

We've got about a minute left. But I'm curious, you know, fame activates something in certain people. What did fame activate in Mike Tyson?

[Mark Kriegel]

No, fame, I mean, fame, fame is a. That kind of fame to me is a peculiarly American, a particularly American disease, or can be. It's the kind of thing that killed Elvis and to my mind should have killed Tyson. And I think he would agree with that. It made him unfathomably wealthy, but it also insulated him from consequence. So the, you know, again, he. The word he never heard until it was too late is no. And everybody, everybody had a hand in keeping the train running, no matter how dysfunctional it got. And people became addicted not just to the fame, but to the famous villainy of it. So for a guy who was marketed and cultivated to be America's hero, he found great peril in being a villain.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the book is baddest, the Making of Mike Tyson. My guest has been Mark Kriegel. Thank you for.

[Mark Kriegel]

Thank you so much, Alison. It was a pleasure, really. Thanks.

[Alison Stewart]

There's more, all of it on the way. The indie folk band Lord Huron has a new album. It's titled the Cosmic Selector, Volume one. Coming up, they will perform in WNYC Studio five. That's happening right after the news. NYC now delivers the most up to date local news from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening with three updates a day. Listeners get breaking news, top headlines and in depth weekly coverage from across New York City by sponsoring programming like NYC now, you'll reach our community of dedicated listeners with premium messaging and an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to get in touch and find out more.