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All Of It with Alison Stewart
Michael Urie Talks 'Shrinking'
00:27:04
Actor Michael Urie is up for a Critics Choice Award for his role on the Apple TV+ series "Shrinking."
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- [00:00]
Alison Stewart
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
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Michael Urie
Listener Supported WNYC Studios.
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Alison Stewart
This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. We've got some event news. Our January Get Lit with all of it book club event with author Richard Price is now sold out. But even if you weren't able to grab tickets, you can follow along on the live stream. And of course you can borrow his novel Lazarus man from our partners at the New York Public library. Head to wnyc.org getlit for more information. And although you might not be able to join us in person for get lit this month, you can join us tonight at Joe's Pub for Public Song Project Album Launch Party. It's an evening of music, trivia, food, drinks and live performances from musicians like Joanna Sternberg and DJ Rekha. Plus, we will be giving out copies of the Public Song Project on vinyl. It all starts tonight at 7. Get your tickets@wnyc.org publicsong now that's in the future. Let's get this hour started with actor Michael Urie in the heartfelt comedy drama Shrinking. Actor Michael Urie plays Brian, a sort of sharp tongue lawyer. His best friend is a therapist named Jimmy. Now Jimmy's wife was killed in a car accident and it sent him into a spiral. Jimmy iced Brian out, stopped parenting his teenage daughter and lost that spark of joy he felt helping his patients. That is until he tried out an unconventional way of therapy and he became a little over involved in a patient's life. And Jimmy calls in a much needed favor from his lawyer friend Brian. Of course Brian agrees and slowly becomes a part of Jimmy's life again. Now that was the plot of season one of Shrinking. Season two just wrapped, complete with a storyline about Brian becoming a parent. And it's already been renewed for a third season on Apple tv. Now just this morning, Shrinking received a SAG nomination for Outstanding performance by an ensemble in a Comedy series. And Michael Urie is up for a Critics Choice Award for Shrinking. He also wrapped up his run as Print Dauntless in Once Upon a Mattress on Broadway in la. And he joins us now. Hey, good to meet you.
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Michael Urie
Hey you too. Thank you so much for having me.
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Alison Stewart
You know, it's such an interesting. It's such a funny show, but it also shrinking. It deals with mental health and chosen family. Why is it that you wanted to join the show?
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Michael Urie
Well, I mean, the pedigree of these artists was the very first reason. But then I read the first episode and it was so funny. And then at times I found myself welling up with tears within seconds of laughing. And I thought, if this show can maintain this level of comedy and drama at the same time, then it's something really special. And it's going to be a pill people can swallow in terms of actually talking about mental health, which is, you know, I feel like, kind of new. I think it's this, this. This taboo of mental health has. Has lessened in the last few years, and we're really talking about the need for it. And this show, I think, is really helping people.
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Alison Stewart
I read somewhere it said that you sought out therapy when you got on the show. I was like, is that a joke or is this real?
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Michael Urie
It's real. It's real. And it's not because the show was stressful or made me depressed or anything like that. It was because I sort of realized through the show because in every episode we tackle different mental health issues. I sort of realized, like, this isn't just for people who think they're in trouble or who are depressed. Mental health maintenance is for all of us, just the same as physical health maintenance. And I was going through a few things of my own and, you know, getting in my 40s now and sort of thinking about the past and the future. And I thought, this is. This is an opportunity for me to talk to somebody and really get a hold of what's going on with me. And, yeah, the show encouraged me to do it. I don't have a therapist that's taking me boxing or anything like Jimmy does, but it's really good to have somebody and to talk to somebody. And I credit the show for encouraging me to do so.
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Alison Stewart
How would you describe your character, Brian?
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Michael Urie
Well, Brian starts off the show, as you mentioned in the intro. He's been ghosted by his friend. And when he shows up, he's got this really happy, go lucky, plucky attitude. His mantra is, everything goes my way. And as he gets back into this group, this chosen family, which is like, one of the beautiful things about the show is that this family, this chosen family that we've got is a group that kind of got together over the course of these two seasons. Some of Them. You know, Jimmy's kind of the middle, the sort of heart of the group. But it was his recovery over the last two seasons that let all of the people in his life come together. So when we meet Brian, I think he's got this, this mantra, everything goes my way. And then his longtime partner starts talking about having a baby and they start talk thinking about having, becoming parents and he's back with his friend group and those ideals sort of slip away. This idea that everything is going to work out for him starts to slip away and we see that he's actually kind of a neurotic message. And that was a wall that he put up. And I feel so lucky because it was fun to play a confident guy who thought he had it all or at least would achieve it all. But it's way more fun to play neuroses. And getting to follow Brian down this new path has been so fun and, and watching him navigate being a husband, being a father, or potentially being a father and figure out what his relationship with Jimmy is now, you know, after a year of being ghosted and a long, you know, decades long friendship, what does it mean to reconnect? And the big question that I was so interested in season two is, are we even friends anymore or would we be friends if we met today? And that's a big question. So many people I think should be. Yeah, I think we ask ourselves that a lot with these long time relationships, especially in the queer community. You know, I can attest to this. When you're in the closet, you are not your whole self. And Brian was in the closet when he and Jimmy became friends. So now here we are 20 years on and would you be friends with.
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Alison Stewart
Right. Am I the same guy? Are you the same person? Am I the same person?
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Michael Urie
Am I the same guy? Am I? Exactly. And the truth is we're not. Are we still compatible as friends? Maybe. Probably. And obviously there's this whole like friend group and everything has evolved. But it's a huge question and I think one that people ask a lot, especially in the queer community or other communities where you were pretending to be something different for a period of time.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah, it's very funny. He talks about his straight self, the way he describes how he reacts to things as his straight self when he was a kid.
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Michael Urie
Straight Brian.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah, straight Brian. What was the chemistry like between you and Jason Segel?
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Michael Urie
It was immediate. I mean, Jason is one of the greatest actors I've ever worked with. He's the most prepared, most professional and kindest person on the Set. And that was a. So it was very easy. First of all, it's very easy to act with him because he's so alive and so present and so prepared. But he's also such a sweet, sweet guy in real life that I felt I was. You know, I was nervous. I was like, will I be able to be best friends with this guy? We don't know each other. I did not know him before I got the job. And immediately, as soon as I saw him, he gave me a big bear hug and put me at ease. And it's been very easy. You just look him in the eye and you're acting. It's really terrific.
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Alison Stewart
My guest is actor Michael Urie. He plays the best friend of a therapist who's grieving the loss of his wife in the Apple TV comedy series Shrinking. He's joining me now to discuss the series and his career. When you know Jimmy, played by Jason Segel, he's struggling with so much grief, sometimes in not positive ways. What choices did you make as an actor to talk about the feelings that Brian has about his friend dealing with grief? Does that make sense?
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Michael Urie
Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, Brian is. Brian is. And he would never say this. He would never admit to this. He might not even know what it means, but he is a narcissist. And so when we meet Brian at the beginning of this series, he's mad at Jimmy. Not. He's mad at Jimmy because he had been ghosted. Yes, he's sympathetic and yes, he feels bad, but he starts on his own problem, of course. And that is kind of the pattern with Brian. As we see any issue with Jimmy come up. Brian won't make it about himself. And he doesn't know. He doesn't realize that that's what he's doing because, you know, he's a narcissist. And they don't always see themselves. They don't always realize that that's what's going on. And it's very funny. Actually, there was a moment in the show where someone calls Brian a narcissist. And I remember reading it and being like, no, he's not. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm too. I'm too close. I've gotten too close to this character. I don't even realize that that's what he is. But it helpful as an actor to think of him in that way. So, yeah, he kind of. When Jimmy has a problem, Brian's not the one to help him. Usually, occasionally, Jimmy, you know, Brian can help, and that's why this season? What was so interesting about this season is they introduced the character of Lewis, played by Brett Goldstein, who is the man responsible for the death of Jimmy's wife, Tia, which was a crazy twist that this guy would end up somehow in their lives after this horrible tragedy. And it ends up being Brian, who is the conduit to bring Lewis into the fold of this chosen family. And it seems unlikely, but also inevitable that it be Brian, because it can't really be. It can't really be anyone else. They're a little too close to it. And Brian, even though Tia was a very close friend of his, he just happens to be in the right place at the right time to intercept Louis on the street and see that Louis is in pain and see that Louis is needs. Someone knows still that Jimmy and Alice and the entire group of friends who are grieving the loss of Tia still need some kind of closure. And Brian helps bridge that gap. So it's this kind of wonderful thing that, like, you put this guy, who seems to be no help at all, in the right place in the right time, and he can. He can actually help.
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Alison Stewart
Let's play a clip. Jimmy eventually finds out about Alice and Brian's interaction with Lewis, which leads to a huge monologue Brian gives, which he gave to Alice earlier, explaining how he met Lewis. This is from shrinking.
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Michael Urie
I need a drink. Do you need a drink? Should we make martinis?
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Alison Stewart
It's 11am And I'm 17, but sure.
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Michael Urie
Oh, okay. Okay. Diving in. Okay, here goes. I have been talking to the young man who ran over your mom.
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Alison Stewart
What?
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Michael Urie
Just listen. It gets better. It doesn't. But listen. He came here to return your wallet. He came here When?
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Alison Stewart
To the house. Did you talk to him or did.
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Michael Urie
If you keep asking me stuff, I'm gonna get more frazzled. So just let me. Spit it out.
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Alison Stewart
Spit it out.
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Michael Urie
So he came here, and I was like, get away from this family. Scram. And he was like, sorry. But he seemed wounded. More like sorry. And I was like, are you okay? And he was like, yes. But I could tell he wasn't. I'm going through a super empathetic stage because Charlie and I decided that we're gonna have a baby. If it's a boy, we're gonna name him Peter Bernadette. And if it's a girl, obviously Bernadette Peters. Anyway, so I went to the coffee shop where he works. Not to see him, just to ask if he was okay. And his boss was this kind of Tony Soprano guy, but hotter, you know, kind of A he'd rough you up, but also be a really good kisser. I wish I had a picture. So I ask the boss about Louis. And he says, you know, he's. He's super depressed. He's kind of a downer, but you can't fire a person for being a bummer. Cancel culture, am I right? Next thing I know, he calls Louis over and we start talking. And Alice, his life is bleak. Like Requiem for a Dream bleak. And not like the middle part, where they're all enjoying the heroin. The end, where they're all ass to ass. And you realize that heroin's no fun at all.
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Alison Stewart
We learned so much about Brian just in that monologue. So much about Brian just in that monologue.
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Michael Urie
Can't believe you just heard me say ass to ass on public radio.
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Alison Stewart
It's for the art. It's for the art. Michael, tell me about rehearsing that monologue. Because it does go to so many different places. It ends up in the right place, but there's tangents left and right.
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Michael Urie
Yes, he's all over the map with this monologue. And it was such a gift to get a monologue. I mean, a monologue on television, that's so rare. Unless you're doing, like, a political speech or like a summation or something in a courtroom. So I was so grateful they gave it to me ahead of time. Because they wanted me to be familiar with it and have time with it. Cause it's a lot more dialogue than usual for somebody to have on a TV show. And they said, you're going to repeat it again verbatim. So I knew not only am I gonna do it, I'm gonna do it like a month later. And they wanted it to be verbatim. And they wanted it to be like. And I thought of it as that, you know, when you hard to say to somebody or something complicated or something you're nervous about saying. I mean, at least I do. I practice it in the car or in the shower or when I'm alone. And you go through it and you imagine what might happen when you start to tell the other person this complicated idea. So I kind of looked at it like that. Like this is something that he has been saying in his head. Practicing and preparing for the moment when inevitably he's going to have to say it. Which helped because it meant that I could, like, I was able to have a sort of muscle memory and get it in my bones and think of it as a rehearsed speech that Brian had prepared. Because he knew eventually he was gonna have to spill the beans. But I also knew that, like, I needed to know this thing backwards and forwards. So I spent a lot, I spent a lot more time on this than I would normally on a script for, for tv, just because they're usually three minute scenes and you have like maybe half the lines and it's a lot easier to memorize. And also the writing on shrinking is sterling, and the better the writing is, the easier it is to remember. So it's always been fairly easy to get the words in my head on this show, but I spent a lot more time on that. And also I had to perfect my Brett Goldstein imitation. I had to figure out how he would say sorry. And then I got. And then Lukita Maxwell, who's the incredible brilliant actor who plays Alice the day of, we spent a little time together, just the two of us in the trailer going through it. So that was really, really helpful. And having her to look at made it really easy. But again, it was just like the greatest gift to be given. This speech that's funny and heartfelt and high octane, I couldn't. I'm so grateful for it. And in fact, somebody on this is my dream come true. Somebody on Instagram spliced them together. See how they're how they mirror each other.
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Alison Stewart
We'll have more with Michael Urie after a quick break. This is all of it on this week's on the Media how the map of the US we grew up with has never shown us our true selves.
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Michael Urie
If you looked up at the end of 1945 and you saw a US flag flying overhead, it was more likely that you were living in a colony or occupied zone than on the US.
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Alison Stewart
Mainland empire on this week's on the Media from wnyc. Find on the Media. Wherever you get your podcasts, you are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Michael Urie. We're talking about his role as Brian on the Apple TV comedy drama Shrinking. He's nominated for a Critics Choice Award. We just got this text that says, took my daughter to see her first Broadway show to Once Upon a Mattress. So fun and exciting. She stood up and cheered and laughed so much. Thank you for a great show, Michael.
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Michael Urie
Oh, that's so nice.
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Alison Stewart
I was gonna ask you about Once Upon a Mattress. We had Anna Gasteyer, who is sitting right there in real life talking to us about the show. What was it like to play a prince on stage?
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Michael Urie
Oh, my gosh. It was something I never thought would happen. I never thought I would get to be a prince in a Broadway musical. Who gets the girl. Just didn't. Wasn't on my bingo card. And then that girl got to be Sutton Foster. Never in a million years did I think I would be opposite her in a Broadway musical. But there it was, and it happened, and it was completely glorious. We just closed in Los Angeles on Sunday, and we had a beautiful run on Broadway, a beautiful run in la. And we were the first musical for so many kids. That text is one of so, so, so many kids who saw their very first Broadway musical with Once Upon a Mattress. And that is like. That is very special because you never forget your first show. Getting to work with Anna and Sutton and our amazing director, Lira Debessinet, and the entire company and staff was just magical. I mean, it sounds cliche to say that a fairy tale show about a magical kingdom would end up being magical, but it really, really was. And the kids especially, because the show was so funny. It had a new script by Amy Sherman Palladino, the same old beautiful songs from the original by Mary Rogers, and just this wonderful spirit. But it was the kids. It was the way that the show works, like a Looney Tunes cartoon or a Pixar movie, where the adults were laughing at one thing and the kids were laughing at something else. There were sections where just the kids would be laughing. And when we get to those sections, we would sort of lean in to the monitors or in the wings, lean in to see how many kids were there, how many kids were, like, piping up. And especially like on Broadway at the Hudson Theater, which is this great old theater where the acoustics are just like. You can hear a pin drop. And these kids would giggle and they'd hear that their voices carried throughout the entire theater. And sometimes they would get emboldened and start giggling more or making sounds. You know how kids can be once they realize they've got everyone's attention. It was just so wonderful. It was so special and so goofy. And the show. Carol Burnett came, By the way, Carol Burnett came to see us in the original. Princess Winifred came to see the show in Los Angeles last, I guess it was Saturday afternoon. And we sort of realized, doing it with her there, of course, imagining what she's thinking, how she's responding, we sort of realized, well, we've. Even though we weren't trying to do Carol or trying to be the Carol Burnett show so much, all of us, anybody that does comedy, especially in front of an audience, we have learned something from her and from her show, from the Carol Burnett show. We've all watched it. I mean, anybody who does comedy and does stuff in front of an audience is aware of that relationship that she and her team, her. Her company of actors, Tim Conway and Lyle Wagner and all those people, Vicki Lewis, I mean, Vicki Lawrence, they had this relationship with the audience that was so special. It was like a little tiny wire between them. And at any point you knew they could break out laughing.
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Alison Stewart
That was kind of my question. They used to break regularly. Did that happen to you?
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Michael Urie
Yeah, it would happen from time to time. I mean, we tried not to, but, like, sometimes there were things that were. There were. That were. That were very spontaneous night to night that we didn't have planned. I mean, there was a lot of stuff that we did have planned. Obviously, for safety reasons, you have to plan certain things. Can't be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But there were moments, kind of like a jazz solo where we could kind of play and things might be different or, you know, I mean, suddenly, Sutton took a big bite out of a piece of soap at one moment. That wasn't really soap. It was white chocolate, but it looked like soap, and the audience thought it was soap. And it would always break up in different ways. And that was a. You know, that was something that we'd have to navigate every night. And I think that the audience knows that. The audience knows they're watching something special. They know when it's for them only. And that kind of theater where we're making something funny and we are letting. Letting the chips fall where they fall, biting into a piece of soap or, you know, like, she and I had this moment where we would. I would say, you're pretty, and she'd say, no, you're pretty. No, you're pretty. No, you're pretty. And it would sort of devolve into a mess of sounds and physicality, and we would not plan it. We never talked about it. We would just, like, try something new every night, and the audience can tell. And that's really. That's a really. It's. It's very special. And that's. That's the thing I'll miss the most, is that spontaneity, connection with the audience.
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Alison Stewart
People who are listening to this conversation know that we're, via zoom. You're from California. Understanding that there's huge fires in California, I wanted to ask you, is your home safe? Are you safe?
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Michael Urie
I am safe because I'm actually. Right now, I'm in the desert hot springs. I came here to give my body a break after doing lots of musicals. But. But L. A looks. It's very scary, and my home in L. A is currently safe, but. But these fires are. Seem very, very out of control. And where my home is there, you know, when I look at the map, there's fires surrounding it, but I know the area is really, really big, so I don't know that it'll. I don't know that anything will get to my home, but it's very scary. And of course, this is such a huge time for la. It's award season. So LA is bustling right now, and it needs it because it's had such a hard few years between the pandemic and all the strikes. Los Angeles. Los Angeles needs the awards season because so much of its business and economy thrives on that part of the industry. So really hope they can get this, that. That these fires get under control and it doesn't mess up the award season too much. But more importantly, I hope more people don't lose their homes and don't have to evacuate. And I know a lot of people who have already had to evacuate, which is terrifying.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah. Good thoughts for Los Angeles. Since you brought up the awards season, we just found this morning that Shrinking was nominated for a SAG Award for Best Ensemble. What does that mean to you? I mean, you're nominated for a Critics Choice Award. You are, But I'm interested in both. What they both mean to you.
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Michael Urie
Well, the Critics Choice nomination is so. Is so incredible because I've never really been nominated for anything before, and that the. Among not only the other supporting actors in the comedy show I'm in, but all of the comedy shows, that's just so many people. There's one lead and everyone else is supporting. So we're talking about so many actors. So I feel very honored to be singled out among the cast of Shrinking and the cast of all the shows, and that the critics. I mean, it's critics, they're watching everything, and they're watching with such a keen eye. That is their job, to watch closely and with great discernment. So I really appreciate that they saw me. You never know. You never know if what you're doing is really registering. And it seems like. It seems like they picked up what I put down, which is really, really cool. And then the SAG Award. This is the greatest company of actors. These people.
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Alison Stewart
Harrison Ford, Jessica Williams.
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Michael Urie
Yes, go on. Luke Tenney and Brett Goldstein, and of course, Jason Segel and Ted McGinley and Devin Kawaoka. Who plays my husband, is on the list, which is really wonderful. Wendy Malik, who plays Harrison's girlfriend, is on the list. Oh, I'm just so thrilled that we get to have that night together and that we get to share this, because the show really, it's one of those shows that every episode I look forward to seeing who I get scenes with. And am I gonna work with Harrison this week? Am I gonna work with Jason this week? Am I gonna work with Luke this week? And any combination seems to create magic, which is a huge testament to this cast, but also the writers and to Brett Benner and Debbie Romano, the casting directors who brought us all together. So it's really cool. It feels kind of like that means the show is, to me, that means the show is really working. If the actors like, here we go. The actors, our peers, they said, yeah, that's good acting. And then on the other hand, the critics said, yeah, you're doing a good job. So I'm feeling pretty lucky to be seen right now.
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Alison Stewart
Michael Urey, you can see him in shrinking. Thanks, Michael. It was nice talking to you.
- [28:00]
Michael Urie
Oh, nice talking to you. Thank you so much, Alison. I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.