Molly Ringwald on 'Feud'

Summary

Podcast Summary: Molly Ringwald on 'Feud'

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Molly Ringwald
Episode Date: January 29, 2024
Topic: Molly Ringwald discusses her role as Joanne Carson in the FX/Hulu series Feud: Capote vs. The Swans and reflects on her career, creative process, and working with Ryan Murphy.

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the making of Feud: Capote vs. The Swans, with Molly Ringwald sharing insights on playing Joanne Carson—Truman Capote’s last close friend. The conversation explores the show's portrayal of New York’s elite “Swans,” Capote's complicated relationships with them, and the unique bond between Capote and Carson. Ringwald also touches on creative partnerships, her career evolution, and her return to acting alongside her passions for writing and singing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Capturing California vs. New York Energy

• Molly Ringwald reflects on embodying Joanne Carson’s Californian essence while contrasting it with the “buttoned-up” style of New York’s Swans.
  • “I'm originally from California, so no matter what, I feel like it's in my blood…as much as I love New York and consider myself a New Yorker, there's definitely Californian in there from too many generations.”
  • (02:07)
• The creators wanted Joanne to stand out as freer and more bohemian compared to the reserved socialites of Manhattan.
  • (02:46)

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2. Joanne Carson and Truman Capote’s Unique Friendship

• Ringwald describes Joanne and Truman as outcasts who bonded over being “on the outs” from their respective worlds post-divorce and scandal.
  • "I think she and Truman kind of bonded together and were kind of a little bit outcast together…I also believe that Joanne really absolutely adored him unconditionally and may have been one of the only people in his life who did.”
  • (02:46)
• Joanne’s love for Capote was unconditional—she wanted nothing but friendship, and truly respected his literary gifts.
  • "She really just kind of wanted to facilitate his literary genius, because I really do believe that she had an incredible amount of respect for his writing more than anybody else."
  • (03:52)

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3. Capote’s Betrayal and The Ethics of Writing About Friends

• The conversation turns to Capote’s tell-all and whether writers have the right to mine their social circles for material.
• Molly acknowledges the writer’s perspective but sees Capote’s choices as self-destructive:
  • “I think that there is a way he could have done it and they wouldn't have known that, they wouldn't have suspected that he was writing about them specifically…what he did was very self destructive.”
  • (05:45)

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4. Portraying Joanne: Working with Tom Hollander & The Cast

• Molly praises Tom Hollander’s "transformative" performance as Capote:
  • “It wasn't just the voice. It was the mannerisms. It was the way that he walked…Tom just completely nailed it.”
  • (08:00)
• Hollander’s acting process involved moving fluidly in and out of character, more common for British actors per Ringwald’s experience.
  • (09:33)

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5. Behind the Scenes: Directors & Wardrobe

• While Gus Van Sant directed most episodes, Ringwald shares her admiration for Jen Lynch (noting they previously worked together on Dahmer), describing Lynch as an “actor’s director.”
  • (10:53)
• Joanne Carson’s style was deliberately set apart from the Swans:
  • “They really wanted Joanne to seem like a lot more free and bohemian…I'm in colorful caftans…and really sort of embody that quintessential California ease.”
  • (11:32)

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6. Joanne’s Enduring Loyalty & Capote’s Legacy

• The depth of Carson and Capote’s bond is evidenced by her keeping part of his ashes and being buried beside him:
  • “She apparently kept him pretty close and talked to him…it was just one of those relationships…that was really, really important to her.”
  • (12:53)
• Molly believes Joanne respected Capote as a writer more than the Swans did:
  • “They really valued him as a character… I don't know that they respected him as much as a writer. And I think Joanne did.”
  • (13:01)

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7. Filming Difficult Scenes: Violence and Vulnerability

• Ringwald describes the emotional toll of witnessing a staged violent altercation, despite knowing it was choreographed:
  • “Even though I knew that it was made up, it couldn't help but, like, raise my…cortisol…It made me gasp…and just being around it, it really felt like I was watching the real thing.”
  • (14:58)

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8. Ryan Murphy’s Influence & Opening Doors

• Ringwald credits Murphy with championing diverse talents and offering complex roles for women beyond their twenties:
  • "He really does, you know, he's really interested in giving voices and giving power to people who might not have that opportunity…and that's something that he has really focused on a lot…"
  • (16:08)

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9. Music, Writing, and Looking Forward

• Molly shares she is currently focused on acting and writing, but aspires to one day blend all her passions—perhaps directing, writing, acting, singing, and even using her French—in a single project:
  • "I'm hoping that one day I get to do everything I want to do all on the same project. So maybe like, directing, writing, acting, singing, you know, everything else. Maybe a little French in there. Who knows?"
  • (17:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tom Hollander as Capote:
  “He always seemed like a little bit like a train wreck, but he had this very specific way of moving, and Tom just completely nailed it…” (08:00)
• On the ethics of writing about friends:
  “If you want to be a complete recluse, fine, you know, write about whatever you want. But… I don't think he wanted to lose that whole social circle…” (05:45)
• On Ryan Murphy:
  “He’s definitely in the zeitgeist. He kind of knows what people want to see, but he also takes chances and…especially in terms of hiring all of these women that are, you know, not 22 years old.” (16:08)
• On Carson & Capote’s bond:
  “She apparently kept him pretty close and talked to him and, you know, like, it was just one of those relationships, for whatever reason, that…was really, really important to her.” (12:53)
• Ringwald’s musical side:
  The episode ends with Ringwald singing her rendition of “Don’t You (Forget About Me)”. (18:25)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:07: Ringwald on capturing Joanne Carson’s California vibe & contrast with the Swans
• 03:52: Ringwald explains Joanne’s unconditional loyalty to Capote
• 05:45: Discussion on Capote’s tell-all and the ethics of writing about friends
• 08:00: Behind the scenes with Tom Hollander’s transformation into Capote
• 11:32: Designing Joanne’s wardrobe/persona to stand apart
• 12:53: The deep, enduring friendship between Carson and Capote
• 14:58: Filming emotionally intense violent scenes
• 16:08: Ryan Murphy’s impact on diverse casting and storytelling
• 17:34: Molly on hopes for integrating acting, music, and writing

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Conclusion

This episode offers a thoughtful peek behind the scenes of Feud: Capote vs. The Swans, with Molly Ringwald providing candid insights into her creative process, the significance of Joanne Carson in Capote’s later life, and the series' resonance with issues of art, friendship, and betrayal. Ringwald’s warmth and versatility shine throughout, whether reflecting on past collaborations, explaining her character’s motivations, or serenading listeners with her singing.

For listeners interested in culture, the craft of acting, and untold stories from New York’s golden age, this is a deeply rewarding episode.

Transcript

[Molly Ringwald]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The new season of the anthology series Feud takes us back to New York of yesteryear through the story of the city's most fabulous socialites like Babe Paley and Lee Bouvier Rodziwell and their confidant turned frenemy, writer and bon vivant, Truman Capote. Coming off the wild success of In Cold Blood and the film adaptation of Breakfast at Tiffany's, Capote was a sought after companion for some of New York City's wealthiest women until he published a tell all story in 1975 about their not so perfect lives. The piece shook up high society and these powerful ladies who lunch, Capote called them the Swans, froze him out of every party event and their private lives. Alone and an addict, he spiraled out of control. Our guest today, Molly Ringwald, plays the one woman who stuck by him through all of it, Joanne Carson, ex wife of Johnny Carson, who invites Truman to come stay with her on the West Coast. He'll end up spending his final days there. Joining Molly Ringwald to star in Feud, Capote versus the Swans are Naomi Watts, Diane Lane, Chloe Sevigne, Calista Flockhart and Demi Moore. And opposite Tom Hollander, who is a go for broke, Truman Capote. The series is directed by Gus Van Zant and it premieres on FX and Hulu on Wednesday.

[Interviewer 2]

And Molly Ringwald joins us now along.

[Alison Stewart]

With Millie, her dog. Hi, Molly.

[Molly Ringwald]

Hi, Alison. Thank you for having me.

[Interviewer 2]

So happy to have you. And you know, I thought about you in this part because you have been a New Yorker.

[Alison Stewart]

You used to have this really cool apartment on East 10th street and you've lived in Paris.

[Interviewer 2]

And they both have very different energies than the California energy where your character is from. So what were your conversations like with Ryan and director Gus Van Santa about how to capture this Californian ness of Joanne?

[Molly Ringwald]

Well, you know, I'm originally from California, so no matter what, I feel like it's in my blood. I only have to be around somebody from California for all of 30 seconds to get my valley speak back. So as much as I love New York and consider myself a New Yorker, there's definitely Californian in there from too many generations. They really talked to me about wanting to have a difference between the Swans who, you know, all of those, you know, Babe Paley sees a guest, Slim Keith, these very sort of buttoned up, very, you know, kind of private women and really sort of have this contrast between those women and my character who really was More of a friend to them, to Truman specifically. And they were also kind of. I think, in a way, they were sort of outcasts together because, you know, Joanne was married to one of the most powerful men in Hollywood. I mean, for a time, for a long time, Johnny Carson was it. And had incredible access, insider access. And so she had that as well because of being married to him. And then when they divorced, I think she really was kind of on the outs a bit. She didn't have everybody's name on, you know, speed dial like before. So I think she and Truman kind of bonded together and were kind of a little bit outcast together. I also believe that Joanne really absolutely adored him unconditionally and may have been one of the only people in his life who did.

[Alison Stewart]

So when you think unconditionally, meaning that she really didn't. She didn't want anything from him but friendship.

[Molly Ringwald]

Yeah, I don't really think that she wanted that much from him. You know, at that. At that point, there really wasn't. There really wasn't that much that she could get from him or needed from him. I mean, I think she had enough money from, you know, the. The divorce, the alimony. He lived in her house. I mean, she really just kind of wanted to facilitate his literary genius, because I really do believe that she had an incredible amount of respect for his writing more than anybody else. I think the other women, I think, sort of treated him a bit as a court jester, and he was sort of happy to play that role for a while. But I think maybe there might have been some unexpressed anger. There's some subconscious anger of being sort of treated like this little dance monkey, dance. It's a little bit like being a part of a world, but always being a little bit on the outside of it as well. And I don't think that he felt that with Joanne. I think that she really just loved him and wanted to help keep him sober and buy his special pencils and erasers and really kind of facilitate that genius. Because I think that she really believed in him, and she was right. He was a literary genius, and she really.

[Alison Stewart]

She sets him up to have a good experience on the West Coast. But I want to ask you, though, about this, that, you know, at one point, Truman Capote voices sort of seems confused about why these women are so mad. Sort of disbelief that he's a writer and they should know. What did they think he was gonna do with all of his life experiences? That's what writers do. They write from their life Experiences. You're a writer, you're a translator. What do you think of that argument? Does he have a point?

[Molly Ringwald]

I definitely think he has a point. I also think that there was a way that he could have written that book and maybe not. He could have changed the details a little bit more than he did. There was no reason why he had to just write this expose. There was a way, I think, he could have written it to where they didn't really know who he was writing about. And I think that's a question writers ask themselves all the time. And, you know, if you want to, if, you know, if you want to be a complete recluse, fine, you know, write about whatever you want. But if you're, you know, I don't think he wanted to lose that whole social circle. And so what he did was very self destructive. And I think that there is a way he could have done it and they wouldn't have known that, they wouldn't have suspected that he was writing about them specifically. You know, I think it's something that writers think about all the time.

[Interviewer 2]

My guest is Molly Ringwald. She stars as Joanne Carson in Feud. Truman Capote versus the Swans. It premieres on FX and Hulu on Wednesday.

[Alison Stewart]

So let's play a clip.

[Interviewer 2]

And Tom Hollander, he really goes for it in this performance.

[Alison Stewart]

In terms of his voice and the.

[Interviewer 2]

Way and his movements. We can get a sense of the relationship here. This is you as Joanne welcoming Truman Capote to her Thanksgiving dinner. And he's brought his abusive boyfriend John, who is sitting in the car.

[Alison Stewart]

This is from Feud.

[Interviewer 2]

Truman Capote versus the Swans.

[Singer (Molly Ringwald singing)]

Hi, honey.

[Actor reading lines (possibly Molly Ringwald or another actor)]

Oh, hi. I come bearing gifts.

[Molly Ringwald]

Ooh, yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[Actor reading lines (possibly Molly Ringwald or another actor)]

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Molly Ringwald]

Why is your friend sitting in the car?

[Actor reading lines (possibly Molly Ringwald or another actor)]

John wants me to buy him a house and Malibu Little Prince Papa is pouting when he realizes there's a Manhattan waiting for him. He'll come in. When's dinner?

[Molly Ringwald]

In an hour. But there's lots of snacky drinky things. I hope you like nachos and tamales. Do you know what that is?

[Interviewer 2]

What impressed you about his performance?

[Molly Ringwald]

Oh, everything. I mean, I really didn't know what it was going to be like until I saw him on set. You know, we didn't have any rehearsal time at all, so I knew he. Tom Hollander was a fine actor, but I had no idea how transformative that performance would be. And I got along with him immediately. I found Tom really charming and generous and, you know, absolutely lovely. He would go back and forth between Tom and Truman and usually right before we would start a scene, he would be listening to something that he had on his. On his device just to kind of get that voice in his head. But it wasn't just the voice. It was the mannerisms. It was the way that he walked. And, you know, I remember seeing Truman Capote when I was a little girl, you know, on all those shows that my parents watched, you know, the Tonight Show, Dick Cavett, and, you know, and half the time he was drunk or, you know, he was very. He was very entertaining. He always seemed like a little bit like a train wreck, but he had this very specific way of moving, and Tom just completely nailed it, you know, And I. And I liked him and I enjoyed working with him, which was so important for my character, because, like I said, my character really had this unconditional love for him. So he made that very easy.

[Alison Stewart]

So listening to you, and I think you answered this, but I want to ask it anyway. How often was he. Was he always in character? Did he come in and out and what was that like? If he did, it sounds like he did.

[Molly Ringwald]

No, he. He definitely came in and out, which I think is more common for. For actors, at least in my experience in England, they don't do the method sort of, you know, in character all of the time. So it was nice. I got to know. I got to know Thomas, Tom. Then I also got to know him as, you know, Thomas Truman. And he really sort of moved effortlessly in between the two.

[Alison Stewart]

Working with Gus Van Zandt, obviously done Good Will Hunting and Milk. He directed, I believe, all the episodes for the series.

[Molly Ringwald]

No, he didn't. He directed almost all of the episodes. But there were a couple that I'm in that were directed by Jen lynch, who also directed me in Dahmer, which I had done for Ryan Murphy. And then there's, I think, one other director, and I wasn't in that episode, so I'm afraid I can't remember his name. But that's a wonderful episode as well. But most of them were directed by Gus Van Sant.

[Interviewer 2]

Thank you so much for clearing that up. So that's so interesting. So working with the same director on two very different projects, what was that experience like? Was she a similar kind of director on both projects, or did she shape and change with the projects?

[Molly Ringwald]

I think that she is a similar director. I think her. Her ways of directing work really well with mine. I think she's very generous as a director and letting you, you know, try your thing and, you know, really cares a lot about the emotion and about the feeling like, she. She felt like a real actor's director to me, and I was grateful that I had already had the experience working with her on Dahmer. So I kind of knew a little bit how she worked.

[Interviewer 2]

Tell us a little bit about your wardrobe, because Joanne has a look.

[Molly Ringwald]

Yeah, yeah. Well, they really definitely wanted a contrast between, you know, these buttoned up, pillbox wearing hats, you know, females. And in New York, they really wanted Joanne to seem like a lot more free and bohemian. So, you know, I'm in colorful caftans and, you know, I really sort of embody that. That quintessential California ease, you know, which I was happy to do.

[Interviewer 2]

When you think about Joanne, the relationship between Joanne and Truman Capote, you know, I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole and read her obituary in the New York Times, and she's buried next to him.

[Molly Ringwald]

Yeah, they were that close. They were that close. Yeah. Yeah. I think I remember reading something about how when she got the ashes, she kept half of them and then gave half of them to his other long, long term lover, played by Joe Mantello. Yeah, there was a little bit of a thing about that. But, yes, she. She apparently kept him pretty close and talked to him and, you know, like, it was just one of those relationships, for whatever reason, that. That was really, really important to her.

[Alison Stewart]

What is it that she understood about Truman that the New York Swans didn't?

[Molly Ringwald]

Well, I really think that she had a respect for his writing, perhaps more than they did. I think that they really valued him as a character and as a storyteller. I don't know that they respected him as much as a writer. And I think Joanne did. I think it's something that she was really impressed by, and perhaps that's from being married to Johnny Carson and being around writers and, you know, I don't know exactly where that came from, but she really, really did think that he was one of the great American writers. And, you know, I would be inclined to agree with her. I think. I think he didn't. I think he lost the plot a little bit in terms of his life. I think he got a little bit carried away with these, with the social life and the drinking and the drugging and all of that, but I think that he really was, you know, sentence for sentence, you know, one of the. One of the greats.

[Interviewer 2]

My guest is Molly Ringwald.

[Alison Stewart]

You can see her in feud.

[Interviewer 2]

Truman Capote vs.

[Alison Stewart]

The Swans premieres on FX and Hulu on Wednesday. So after that clip that we played, there's a scene it's really upsetting. It gets very violent. This lover of his, who has been violent with him in the past, played.

[Molly Ringwald]

By Russell Tovey, by the way, a wonderful English actor.

[Alison Stewart]

And it's a pretty terrifying altercation at the table. Two things for you as an actor. And there's another scene where you have to basically save Truman's life. You pull him out of a pool. When you're in a scene where there is that kind of violence, what is that like for you as an actor? I mean, I know as a viewer, it's hard to watch, I imagine. I mean, I know it's your job and all, but I'm very curious as.

[Molly Ringwald]

A human what that's like as a human. I mean, they had already rehearsed it, so, you know, they knew exactly what they were doing. But for me, it was the first time I had seen it, and it was incredibly well done. I mean, it really looked like he was having, you know, just, you know, everything just beaten out of him, you know, and. And even though I knew that it was made up, it couldn't help but, like, raise my way. Raise the cortisol in my, you know, that sort of, you know, fight or flight. Yeah, it really, you know, it was. It made me. It made me gasp. And we did it a couple times, and just being around it, it really felt like I was watching the real thing. And, you know, fortunately, it's all. It's all, you know, for the camera. It's not real, but, yeah, it definitely. It definitely looked real.

[Alison Stewart]

You've worked with Ryan Murphy before.

[Interviewer 2]

What is it that he does that it's unique? What does he bring to the creative process that's unique?

[Molly Ringwald]

You know, I think that one of Ryan's geniuses is to, you know, him, he's definitely in the zeitgeist. He. He kind of knows what people want to see, but he also takes chances and, you know, especially in terms of, you know, hiring all of these women that are, you know, not 22 years old. You know, I. I'm incredibly grateful for that because I feel like I have some of my most interesting work coming up. But it. It really requires somebody in Ryan's position to. To make that call and, you know, somebody in that position of power. And he really does, you know, he's really interested in giving in giving voices and giving power to people who might not have that opportunity. And that's. Whether it's women of. Or people of a certain color or an ethnicity. You know, that's something that he has really focused on a lot, which makes him very interesting as a filmmaker and, you know, of course, very interesting for me, you know, to work with. I would say yes to anything of Ryan's, you know, if he wants me to come read the phone book, I'm there.

[Interviewer 2]

Before we let you go, you. You have a great singing voice. I don't know if people know that about you. You've done shows at 54 below. And do you have any more plans to sing and do any more shows?

[Molly Ringwald]

You know, eventually I do, but right now I'm very focused on the acting and also writing because I'm also a writer as well, and. And that takes a little time and a little, you know, focus and, you know, so right now, I think at least for like, the next year or so, it's going to be acting and writing, and then maybe I'll come back. I'm hoping that one day I get to do everything I want to do all on the same project. So maybe like, directing, writing, acting, singing, you know, everything else. Maybe a little French in there. Who knows?

[Alison Stewart]

There you go.

[Interviewer 2]

Molly Ringwald stars as Joanne Carson and feud. Truman Capote vs. The Swans premieres on FX and Hulu on Wednesday. Molly, thank you for making time. I hope you're okay if I go out on a little bit of your singing a certain song.

[Molly Ringwald]

Oh, sure.

[Interviewer 2]

Let's take a listen. Thanks, Molly.

[Molly Ringwald]

Thank you, Alison.

[Singer (Molly Ringwald singing)]

Will you stand above me? Look my way Never love me Rain keeps falling Rain keeps falling Will you recognize me? Call my name.

[Alison Stewart]

That'S pretty good, right? That's all of it for today. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you, and I will meet you back here next time.