Monica Barbaro on Transforming into Joan Baez in 'A Complete Unknown'

Summary

All Of It – Episode Summary: Monica Barbaro on Transforming into Joan Baez in 'A Complete Unknown'

Episode Title: Monica Barbaro on Transforming into Joan Baez in 'A Complete Unknown'
Host: Alison Stewart
Release Date: February 13, 2025
Duration: Approximately 18 minutes
Guest: Monica Barbaro
Awards Mentioned: Oscar Nomination for Best Supporting Actress, Screen Actors Guild Award Nomination

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves deep into the transformative journey of Monica Barbaro, who portrays the legendary folk singer Joan Baez in the biopic "A Complete Unknown." The episode offers an intimate look at Monica's rigorous preparation, the challenges she faced, and the profound personal connections she developed while embodying one of music's most iconic figures.

Auditioning and Securing the Role

Monica Barbaro recounts her audition process, which began in 2020 amidst the uncertainties of the COVID-19 pandemic. Initially, the project involved directors James Mangold and actor Timothée Chalamet, with discussions also including Elle Fanning. However, the pandemic posed significant hurdles, nearly derailing the project until 2023 when Monica reconnected with Mangold, securing her role as Joan Baez.

[01:32] Monica Barbaro: "James Mangold and Timothée Chalamet were in discussion with Elle... the project kind of almost fell apart and I didn't... until 2023 when I met him."

Emotional Response to the Role

Upon receiving confirmation for the role, Monica describes a whirlwind of emotions. The excitement of portraying such a revered musician was tempered by the immense pressure to live up to Joan Baez's legacy.

[02:56] Monica Barbaro: "Joan is an incredible guitar player. She's an incredible singer... I knew my work was cut out."

Research and Preparation

To authentically portray Joan Baez, Monica immersed herself in extensive research. This included studying the folk music scene, understanding the transmission of songs through various artists, and appreciating Baez's unique arrangements. Monica also highlighted the storytelling aspect of Baez's music, noting how personal experiences often infused the lyrics.

[03:40] Monica Barbaro: "I really loved learning about the folk music scene and how every song... are passed around and translated through different artists' styles."

Vocal Coaching and Technical Training

Given Joan Baez's distinctive vocal style, Monica enlisted the help of Eric Vitro, a vocal coach, to expand her vocal range and master Baez's steady vibrato and dynamic expression.

[04:52] Monica Barbaro: "We worked on getting my range to expand, to sing as high as she could... capturing the essence of what she brought to the music."

Balancing Imitation and Originality

Monica discusses the delicate balance between emulating Baez's voice and maintaining her own identity as an actress. This "push and pull" involved experimenting with vocal techniques while trusting director Mangold's guidance to achieve authenticity without mere mimicry.

[05:52] Monica Barbaro: "Some lines feel more imitation and some would slip into our own voice... trusting our amazing director."

Authentic Physical Transformation

To capture Joan Baez's iconic appearance, Monica wore custom-made fake teeth crafted by Art, a renowned illustrator known for his work on notable films like "King Richard" and "Monster." This attention to detail ensured Joan's beloved smile was faithfully represented.

[07:07] Monica Barbaro: "We went through a couple rounds of teeth so that they wouldn't look sort of silly... He did Charlize Theron's teeth for Monster."

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Monica shares anecdotes from the filming process, including shooting some of the most emotionally charged scenes last. This approach allowed her and co-star Timothée Chalamet to build trust and deepen their portrayal of the complex relationship between Bob Dylan and Joan Baez.

[10:00] Monica Barbaro: "Blown in the Wind scene was the final scene we shot... Jim gave that scene so much time."

Personal Connection and Meeting Joan Baez

One of the most poignant moments Monica recounts is her interaction with the real Joan Baez. From phone conversations to attending a benefit concert where she finally met Baez in person, Monica describes the emotional impact of connecting with her muse and the affirmation she received.

[16:25] Monica Barbaro: "She was really gracious... she left a voicemail for me and gave me positive feedback about the film."

Reflection on the Role's Impact

Portraying Joan Baez allowed Monica to explore her own anxieties and connect deeply with Baez's internal struggles, particularly regarding stage fright and the pressures of fame. This role not only honed her acting skills but also provided a therapeutic outlet for her personal growth.

[16:21] Monica Barbaro: "Knowing that she was as anxious as she was... allowed me to understand that we're two separate people."

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by celebrating Monica Barbaro's outstanding performance and her recognition in the form of prestigious award nominations. Monica's journey in "A Complete Unknown" exemplifies the dedication and emotional depth required to bring a cultural icon like Joan Baez to life, resonating with both fans and critics alike.

[18:24] Alison Stewart: "My guest is Monica Barbaro. She stars as Joan Baez... nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. Thanks for coming by today."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [01:32] Monica Barbaro: "James Mangold and Timothée Chalamet were in discussion with Elle... the project kind of almost fell apart and I didn't... until 2023 when I met him."

• [05:52] Monica Barbaro: "Some lines feel more imitation and some would slip into our own voice... trusting our amazing director."

• [07:07] Monica Barbaro: "We went through a couple rounds of teeth so that they wouldn't look sort of silly... He did Charlize Theron's teeth for Monster."

• [16:21] Monica Barbaro: "Knowing that she was as anxious as she was... allowed me to understand that we're two separate people."

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This episode of All Of It provides a thorough and engaging exploration of Monica Barbaro's transformative role, offering listeners a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the making of a biopic that honors Joan Baez's enduring legacy in the realm of culture and music.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In the Bob Dylan biopic a complete unknown, we learn about the songwriter through the people around him. Musicians like Pete Seeger, Johnny Cash, and of course Joan Baez, played by my next guest, Monica Barbaro to step in the role. Barbaro did extensive research and vocal training and guitar lesson. So she can sound like this.

[Monica Barbaro]

Leave at your own chosen speed I'm not the one you want, babe I'm not the one you need.

[Alison Stewart]

She's now nominated for an Oscar for best Supporting Actress as well as a Screen Actors Guild award. Monica, welcome to the studio.

[Monica Barbaro]

Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

When you auditioned, who was attached to this project?

[Monica Barbaro]

James Mangold and Timothee Chalamet. And that was about it. They were in discussion with, they were in conversation with Elle. I'm not sure if I think Boyd was, was being talked about, but that, that was about it. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What was the audition process like?

[Monica Barbaro]

Well, it was in 2020. So yeah, my first audition was in 2020 and I, you know, you get an email and you get like the specs of the job and in this case it was a scene, a few scenes. One of the scenes had a song laced into it. And then they asked also for me to self tape a song. And so yeah, I went in the room with Yesi Ramirez and I auditioned and was told I was gonna meet James Mangold the next week because it went well. And yay. And then, and then like, oh wait, there's this pandemic happening. And so maybe two weeks and. And then next thing I knew, the project like, you know, kind of almost fell apart and I didn't, you know, there was no attachment to it until 2023 when I met him.

[Alison Stewart]

A couple of weeks ago on your Instagram, you had an email that said it was from James Mangolden that said Joan is yours.

[Monica Barbaro]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, once you get that part, once it's nailed, what's next for you? What do you have to do for research?

[Monica Barbaro]

I mean, I think I celebrated for all of 10 minutes before I grabbed my sister's guitar and took it to get restrung. I was so nervous. I was so excited, but so nervous because Joan is an incredible guitar player. She's an incredible singer. She's well known and well known for being great at those things. Has a lot of devoted fans, and me included. And so. And I didn't. I didn't do either of those things. I didn't sing, I didn't play. And so I was. I knew my work was cut out.

[Alison Stewart]

For me when it came to appreciating her as an artist. What did you come away from him, from this role, understanding about her as a musician?

[Monica Barbaro]

Well, something really. I really loved learning about the folk music scene and how every song, like how songs were passed around and translated through different artists styles. And there are so many of her arrangements of these songs that I just think are so, so brilliant. And I really loved getting to absorb her versions of songs like. And then. And then also that tying in with, you know, the research and learning about her, I found that when I listened to House of the Rising sun and she hovers on this part about her sister, I felt once I knew more about, you know, her relationship with her younger sister Mimi, that there was something there. And I thought that was just a really beautiful thing to kind of understand these songs almost as, you know, the musician taking on storytelling, taking on some version of their own life within the midst of a song that's, you know, about maybe something seemingly completely different.

[Alison Stewart]

You worked as a vocal coach?

[Monica Barbaro]

Yeah, I did. I did Eric Vitro.

[Alison Stewart]

What's that entail?

[Monica Barbaro]

Oh, my God.

[Alison Stewart]

Everything.

[Monica Barbaro]

Yes, everything. He's a therapist. He's a truly. He just was. It was a constant. Like you. You can do this energy. And I. So in my audition, I couldn't sing as high as Joan does. So I. Or did at that time. So that was a big part of what we worked on, was getting my range to expand, to sing as high as she could. Does. Did. And also she has a really strong, steady vibrato and she plays a lot with dynamics. So it's not just, you know, can I sing a song, but can I sound like Joan and can I capture the essence of what she brought to the music that she sang? And so we just day in and day out tried to work all of those different elements.

[Alison Stewart]

I wonder, as I watch the film, how do you walk the line between getting Joan's voice and not imitating Joan?

[Monica Barbaro]

You know, it's a push and pull. I think it is a fine line. And ultimately, I think, like, you're doing that work throughout. I mean, I felt that while we were filming and I watched Timothy do that while we were filming some and Ed, you know, all of us, like, some lines feel more. Felt more imitation y and some would slip into our own voice. And sometimes you hit kind of that beautiful, perfect balance. And luckily, it is a medium where Jim can choose his best take. But that's a part of the process, I think, is just sort of like playing and experimenting with those things. Like, we don't want ultimately a mimicry of the person. And yet, for me, those were exercises that I did. Like, you know, pure imitation. And it's a lot of play and fine tuning and then really, ultimately trusting our amazing director. I noticed you said, walk the line.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's put that in there. I read on the Internet and tell me if it's true or not, because, you know, the Internet, that you. That you wore fake teeth.

[Monica Barbaro]

I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there's this incredible artist. His name is Art, and he is an artist with a capital A. He is an artist of all kinds. He's an incredible illustrator as well. But he. Yeah, he made teeth. We went through a couple rounds of teeth so that they wouldn't look sort of silly. And I think Jim saw a picture of me in a fitting, and he was like, okay, but we don't want the Hollywoodized version of this person. And. And that was. I mean, the entire production. It's like, I'm looking at this box that these headphones are plugged into right now. If we were on set, that our set designer would be running up at the last minute painting it with stuff to make it look old. And so, you know, everything was just about getting that authenticity. And Joan had this amazing. Has this amazing smile and had these, like, just incredible teeth that people would comment on and were beloved. And. And so, yeah, he asked for those teeth to be made. And this guy did the teeth for. He did Will Smith's teeth for King Richard. He did Charlize Theron's teeth for Monster. And I joked. We would joke. I was like, he needs a cabinet at the Academy Museum or something.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Monica Barbara. She stars as Joan Baez in the biopic A Complete Unknown. She's nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. Let's play another clip from the film. This is a scene between Bob and Joan, Bob Dylan and Joan Baez, after they spent the night together together. And Joan is making coffee.

[Bob Dylan]

Yeah, these chords I learned from a cowboy named Wigglefoot. You were in a carnival.

[Monica Barbaro]

You are so completely full of. I had lessons as a kid, you know, normal lessons. I write, too. I'M not sure there's a way to learn that.

[Bob Dylan]

Too hard.

[Monica Barbaro]

Excuse me?

[Bob Dylan]

You tried too hard to write.

[Monica Barbaro]

Really?

[Bob Dylan]

Yeah. If you're asking.

[Monica Barbaro]

I wasn't.

[Bob Dylan]

Sunsets and seagulls, smell of buttercups. Your songs are like an oil painting at the dentist's office.

[Monica Barbaro]

You're kind, Vinnette. Well, yeah, I guess it's funny to listen to. I don't think I've ever just listened to it.

[Alison Stewart]

So that was one of the last scenes you filmed for the movie?

[Monica Barbaro]

The last. Yeah. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

How do you think that extra time improved your performance on that scene?

[Monica Barbaro]

Well, I find it's easier to play contentious. I don't know why. I don't know what it is in human nature that exists this way. And maybe other people feel differently, but I kind of feel like it's pretty common. It's easier to play scenes where you're contentious with somebody than it is to play really intimately connected scenes, or that's just somehow, like, more readily available to us for some reason. And so we started with. Our first scene together was the scene where we sing together on the stage in Pittsburgh. And he leaves her on stage, and we're fighting, and we're improvising with the audience, and. And we shot that first. And then we shot Blown in the Wind last. And I don't know if that was Jim's design. I've actually mentioned this a few times in Q&As with him, and he's never let on whether he. Whether he designed it that way or if it was just accidental. But, yeah, the Blown in the Wind scene was the final scene we shot. And it was just really wonderful to get that time to kind of settle into these characters. And, you know, we got to know each other better, and I think we trusted each other implicitly. But that also grew over time when we, you know, saw each other deliver on these scenes, and we got to work together more and more. And also, Jim gave that scene so much time. I think we shot it. It was a whole day for just that scene. And I think the same is true for the gorgeous scene that Elle Fanning and Timmy do against the between the fence on either side of the fen. They got loads of time with it. He's always willing to give those sorts of scenes the time they deserve.

[Alison Stewart]

When you're thinking about the big picture of the movie, what does Joan get from Bob?

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

Ooh.

[Monica Barbaro]

Oh, God. Sorry. Kicking things. Well, I think. I think Joan was grappling with her relationship, with her fame at the time. She was very well known before Bob, before anyone knew Bob existed. And I think it. I think that butt heads with some of her values and her upbringing. And she wasn't sure what she wanted out of the, you know, out of this role that she had developed and this sort of power and platform that she had as a musician. But I think she. She felt like she really wanted to communicate, you know, more about what was going on in the world and say more with her music. And she wasn't finding the words to express what she was trying to say. And I. And I think Bob provided those words. I think it's funny because I think in part he did that because of Suze Rutolo's influen. And somewhere in some universe, I think maybe Suze Rotolo and Joan hung out and wrote songs themselves. But he's a brilliant writer and he was impassioned at that time and inspired by Suze, which is essentially what Elle's character is based on, who Elle's character is based on. And yeah, he was saying the things she was trying to find the words to say. And he gave her that, and he gave the whole movement that.

[Alison Stewart]

So I interviewed Joan Baez on this show. She's sitting right there.

[Monica Barbaro]

Oh, my God. Cool, right?

[Alison Stewart]

It was great when this documentary about her life came out, which I'm sure you. You saw.

[Monica Barbaro]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

And during the interview, we played an old tape we found of her from 1960.

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

Oh, wow.

[Alison Stewart]

And she would have been around 20 years old. And I asked her if she was frightened on stage. And this is what she said.

[Bob Dylan]

Oh, God, I was a nervous wreck. I really was a nervous wreck. Starting from the very beginning, starting singing. I was 15, singing at a Shriners gathering, you know, and getting just immobilized by fear. And that's, you know, you see that some of that in the film. It's hard to describe. And also because I looked so calm and I looked so peaceful. Oh, you're so peaceful. I'm thinking, oh, my God, the turmoil going on inside there. But I sure probably know I probably in a way was self soothing by being up there. And I like the sound of my own voice. I love hearing it back. I'm just astonished at it. You know, I'm so far from being able to do any of those notes now. I look at and think, oh, my God, how did she do that?

[Alison Stewart]

Since you've sort of been inside Jo Bias's mind, what stands out to you about what she said?

[Monica Barbaro]

It's. I get. I get like, sorry. I get emotional when I hear her voice. Yeah, it's okay. She. That's. That's amazing to hear. I mean, I read and heard, you know, she talks about her stage fright, and she's known for seeming so calm and confident and comfortable. And it's funny because I also was just absolutely terrified at. At every. Every step of the way making this movie. But it felt it. To know that she was as anxious as she was, to know that she had that performance anxiety was helpful for me in that I felt like I could lean on, you know, just the knowing that if any anxiety was present in the performance, at least that was true to Joan. And, yeah, it's funny, too, because when you first played a song in the beginning of this interview, the. It ain't me, babe. I hear my voice back and think, wow, I sound so comfortable and confident and just. It was sheer terror all the time. And it's really overwhelming. Like, I think, you know, I'm a very separate person from her. We're two different people, for sure. But I feel, like, so connected to. To her, so I can't help but, I guess, I don't know, get emotional when I hear her talk. Well, did I answer? What was your question?

[Alison Stewart]

That's a good question. That was a good answer, actually.

[Monica Barbaro]

Okay.

[Alison Stewart]

You met Joan Baez.

[Monica Barbaro]

I did. I did.

[Alison Stewart]

Where? When? How? Who? What?

[Monica Barbaro]

Well, and I was terrified I was gonna, like, do that and start crying in front of her, but. Well, we spoke on the phone while I was doing the movie. I wasn't sure how that would go because I think sometimes people want to dictate sort of who they are if they're going to be presented in this way. I mean, she didn't seem to have attachment to how we presented her, and I was lucky for that. She just sort of answered my questions, and she was really gracious. She gave us her arrangements of her songs, but it was just a phone call, and I. I've hung up and just started, like, crying. And it was intense. I had been having dreams about meeting her, and it was just like, you obsess over a person, you become a little bit crazy about them. And yet it kind of released me from feeling like I had to be her and, like, allowed me to understand that we're two separate people. And then she gave me really, you know, time passes, we shoot the film. I'm hoping she doesn't hate it. And she left a voicemail for me and gave me positive feedback about the film, which I cried again. And then. And then. And then, just this last weekend, I got to meet her in person. She had. There was this benefit concert and she just. I. It was amazing to get to see her on stage, to just be in the same room with her, all of the people that she inspired. Bonnie Raitt was like, I sing because of Joan. And to hear that was like, oh, my God. And she sang Diamonds and Rust beautifully. And then we got to hug backstage and, you know, we'll keep in touch.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest has been Monica Barbara. She stars as Joan Baez in the biopic A Complete Unknown. She is nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. Thanks for coming by today.

[Monica Barbaro]

Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

And that is all of it. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.

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