Navigating Pre-nup Agreements Before Marriage

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: Navigating Pre-nup Agreements Before Marriage
Air Date: May 28, 2026
Guest: Marcy Katz, Partner at Pryor Cashman, Family Law Attorney
Main Theme:
This episode explores the growing relevance of prenuptial (prenup) agreements across all economic backgrounds, clarifies their purpose, dismantles common myths, and offers practical advice on starting the often-sensitive conversation about prenups before marriage.

---

Overview

The episode addresses how prenuptial agreements have shifted from being tools for the ultra-wealthy to becoming common for couples of all backgrounds. Alison Stewart and guest expert Marcy Katz discuss what prenups do (and don’t do), their legal context, and how to handle the emotional and practical aspects of introducing them in a relationship. Callers share personal stories with prenups, and Katz offers insights for both the logistical and psychological aspects of prenup planning.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is (and Isn’t) a Prenup? ([02:33]–[03:34])

• Definition:
  Marcy Katz explains, “A prenuptial agreement is an agreement you enter into before you get married, setting forth how you intend to have your financial partnership during the marriage. And in the event it ends, how you see dividing the assets that accumulate.” ([02:35])
• What’s Not Included:
  Prenups cannot address child custody or child support. Those are decided only after divorce or separation.
• Four Main Buckets of Prenups:
  1. Separate property (what you keep)
  2. Marital property (what you share)
  3. Spousal support/alimony
  4. What happens in case of death during the marriage

---

Who Are Prenups For? ([03:59]–[06:46])

• Previously seen as only for the wealthy, Marcy states, “Now they're really for everyone because there are two things you kind of can't avoid...where are you going to be living when you get divorced and what are the rules in that place?” ([03:59])
• Laws differ by state and can change—having a prenup lets couples choose their own “rules,” regardless of future residence or changes in state law.
• On affordability: It's preferable, but not strictly necessary, for both parties to have a lawyer, especially if the prenup is simple and there are scant assets. "[I]f you don't have much...maybe finding an associate or someone younger... probably is a reality." ([05:00])
• Family Money: In New York, inherited/family money is typically separate property unless used to support lifestyle; other states may treat this differently.
• Legal Choice: A “choice of law” provision allows couples to specify which state’s law will apply, providing consistency if they move. ([06:26])

---

Starting the Prenup Conversation ([07:14]–[08:46])

• Conversation should begin before engagement. "I don't think you should get engaged unless you've had this conversation.” ([07:57])
• Waiting until after a public engagement can create emotional leverage and pressure.
• Financial values—regarding work, shared earnings, and future assets—should be aligned before marriage.

---

Addressing Debt in Prenups ([08:46]–[09:27])

• Prior debt is considered separate property in New York, but it is important to clarify ahead of time how debt will be paid—e.g., whether marital earnings will be used to pay off one partner’s premarital debt.

---

Callers’ Experiences & Emotional Realities ([09:28]–[25:33])

Positive Experiences

• Tim from Wall Township: Approached prenup as “the foundation of our marriage, looking out for each other in case I became a jerk in the future.” ([09:35])
• Vernita from Jersey City: Had a “positive” experience, viewing the prenup as addressing her husband’s and family’s legitimate concerns, and put a 5-year term limit on theirs. “We've been married 22 years now, so it turned out to be a very positive experience for us.” ([23:21])

Critical & Cautionary Views

• Helene from Brooklyn (Divorce Attorney):
  Warned that prenups are often not as “equal” as people believe, “usually it’s from the perspective of someone who already has money.” Sometimes, the actual breakup brings resentment about the agreement’s terms ([11:18]).

  “I rarely find that [prenups are] true [partnerships]. Usually it’s from the perspective of someone who already has money...at the end, instead of it being an amicable divorce, it’s a very angry divorce because one person wants the prenup enforced, and the other person thinks that now it’s inequitable.” ([11:18])

• Jan from Upstate NY:
  Advised listeners, especially women, “stop doing permanent things with temporary people...If you cannot have a conversation with your partner about your finances previous to getting married, you need to understand...” ([16:34])

• Natalie from Brooklyn (Millennial Perspective):
  Framed the prenup as a value to share early when dating: “I just let people know that this was a personal value of mine. So if we dated, I would be having a prenup...The way that people responded to that was also very valuable to me...” ([20:14])

---

Practical & Legal Nuances ([13:17]–[27:27])

• Who Should Be in the Room? ([10:29])
  Marcy recommends “each party should have their own counsel,” and if parents need to be involved, they should not be present with both fiancés together. “Oftentimes you could play kind of a good cop, bad cop, and they should always use me as the bad cop because I want to preserve their relationship.”

• Timeline:
  "Three to six months, you can get it done.” ([14:20])
  Last-minute prenups can be problematic, especially if terms are lopsided.

• Lawyer Representation:
  Each party must have separate counsel for the contract to be enforceable.

• Changing a Prenup:
  They can be revised/updated via a postnuptial agreement ([25:33]).

• Addressing Intellectual Property/Entrepreneurship:
  Prenups can stipulate that IP created before the marriage, or its proceeds, remain separate property—even if it appreciates significantly during marriage ([19:16]).

  “A prenup— you can do whatever you and your partner want, and that would be a great reason to do it.” ([19:29])

---

Common Misconceptions ([28:13]–[29:36])

• Biggest myth: Getting a prenup means you don’t trust your partner.
  Marcy reframes it, “It's not about that...You're in the middle of engagement bliss, and this is the best you're going to get." Instead, it’s about setting clear expectations and avoiding litigation. ([28:21])
• Older generations see prenups as “tacky” but younger couples take a pragmatic view and see it as collaborative planning.

---

Memorable Quotes

• "Marriage is the ultimate startup. Every startup has a business plan. Why isn't marriage the same way?" ([01:14] – paraphrased from intro)

• Marcy Katz:

  • “You can never address anything relating to kids or child support…that can only be discussed…once you get divorced.” ([02:52])
  • “I don’t think you should get engaged unless you’ve had this conversation.” ([07:57])
  • “If you and your partner agree…that you want to move it from the marital property bucket to the separate property bucket, that’s an excellent reason to have a prenup.” ([19:29])
  • “This person's never going to love you or want to give you more than they want to give you right now.” ([28:21])

• Helene (Caller):

  • “The illusion that people have when they're doing prenups really gets changed at the end of the marriage.” ([11:18])

• Natalie (Caller):

  • “You essentially already have a prenup. It's whatever your state is deciding. So you either decide that you want the state to decide for you or make a decision for yourself.” ([20:53])

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• [02:33]: Defining a prenup
• [03:59]: Who should consider a prenup
• [07:14]: How and when to start a prenup conversation
• [08:46]: Addressing prior debt
• [10:29]: Who should be involved in the prenup process
• [11:18]: Divorce attorney’s cautionary perspective
• [14:20]: How long the process typically takes
• [16:34]: Advice for women on financial conversations and divorce
• [19:16]: Handling intellectual property and potential rapid growth assets in a prenup
• [21:18]: Generational shift; stats on millennials and Gen Z signing prenups
• [22:25]: Positive experience: 5-year term-limited prenup
• [24:32]: How prenups interact with wills and estate planning
• [25:35]: Ability to update a prenup
• [27:27]: “Personality test” nature of talking through a prenup
• [28:21]: Misconceptions and emotional realities

---

Conclusion

The episode presents prenups as a tool for clarity and fairness, not only to “protect assets” but also to foster transparency and dialogue about fundamental financial values before marriage.

• Message: The best time for honest conversations about money is early, well before engagement or marriage plans.
• Takeaway: A prenup is not just for the rich, nor does it mean a lack of trust; it’s a customizable, practical framework for modern relationships.

---

For more resources and to watch related content, listeners are encouraged to visit the show page at WNYC.org.

Transcript

[Ad Read Announcer]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here and thanks to everyone who came out to the New York Public Library last night for our get lit with all of it book club event. We had a great time with author Tom Parotta and musical guests. They might be giants. And if you couldn't be there in person, and you might not have been able to because it sold out very quickly, you can always watch the video from the event. Just head to our show [e-mail] and we'll play the radio version on Monday. On today's show, we'll remember the late jazz saxophonist Sonny Rollins. It's been a week since Stephen Colbert signed off from cbs and we'll talk about the impact of his absence with New York Times television critic James Panawasak. And we'll debate where to find the best French fries in New York City with the Infatuation's Brian Kim. That's the plan. So let's get this started with why you might want to consider getting a prenup. Prenuptial agreements are having a moment and not just because of a recent best selling divorce memoir that laid bare the financial cost of one woman's mistakes. We'll get to that later. But the reality is that the number of Americans who are getting prenups has been on the rise for years. And many of the people who are getting them are not super wealthy. They don't have a lot of assets to protect, but they are looking at future marriages. Pragmatically, as one person put it in a New Yorker to a New Yorker reporter, quote, marriage is the ultimate startup. Every startup has a business plan. Why isn't marriage the same way? So we thought we'd talk about prenups. And here to explain what they do and what you might want to consider why, why, why you might want to consider having one. And how to start that conversation is Marcy Katz. She practices at the firm Prior Cashman. Marcy, thanks for being with us.

[Marcy Katz]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, here's a basic what is a prenup?

[Marcy Katz]

So a prenuptial agreement is an agreement you enter into before you get married, setting forth how you intend to have your financial partnership during the marriage. And in the event it ends, how you see dividing the assets that accumulate.

[Alison Stewart]

So what isn't involved in a prenup?

[Marcy Katz]

That's a tough question. So, you know, first of all, you can never address anything relating to kids or child support or anything like that. That can only be discuss, discussed once they are live once you get divorced. But it really talks about. I like to break it down into four categories. What you want to categorize as separate property, meaning what you keep, what's marital property, which is what you share in New York. That's really what you earn from your active efforts during the marriage, how you want to deal with spousal support, also known as alimony or maintenance, in the event of a divorce. And what no one usually thinks about what happens if one of you dies during the marriage. So those are kind of the four buckets that I like to say are addressed in a prenup.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll talk about those in just a moment. But we do want to get our listeners involved in this conversation. Hey, do you have a prenup? How do you start the conversation with your partner? What's worked for you? What didn't call in and share your experiences with prenups? Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. So who are prenups for?

[Marcy Katz]

So, you know, I like to think about now. They're really for everyone because there are two things that you kind of can't avoid. Whether you have a lot of money or no money at all. And that is where are you going to be living when you get divorced and what are the rules in that place? Like, I like to talk about how in New York State, it's very separate property friendly, meaning any. Anything you inherit is separate property. Anything you come into the marriage is separate property. But let's say your spouse gets a great job in California. You don't know what the rules are gonna be. So why not see a prenup as your way to choose what the rules are for your financial partnership and if your marriage ends. And also, who knows what the laws are gonna be. There have been massive changes in the spousal support or alimony rules in New York over the past 20 years. Why not decide with your partner what rules you want to apply and make sure that whenever and wherever your marriage ends, those Rules are in place.

[Ad Read Announcer]

So if you're someone who can't afford a lawyer for a prenup, do you

[Alison Stewart]

think everyone should have one?

[Marcy Katz]

You know, listen, it is expensive to hire a lawyer. And in New York, in order for a prenuptial agreement to be enforced, the courts really look at whether both parties had representation and there was full disclosure. So that's certainly an issue. But I think if you don't have much. Right. There's not much work that goes into this agreement. And maybe finding an associate or someone younger or, you know, a law firm. A lot of small firms do this kind of work. Finding someone that fits into your budget, especially if it's not complicated, probably is a reality.

[Ad Read Announcer]

So it doesn't matter necessarily that you have family money?

[Marcy Katz]

Well, I don't know. It doesn't really matter. I mean, if you have family money, that, again, in New York, that's separate property. Gotcha. But the question is, you know, in some states where there's community property rules, it might be treated different or it will be treated differently than in New York where that's separate property. Also, if you're living off of that family money, right, then the other person has a claim to spousal support based on you using that money to support your lifestyle. So do you want that to be the case or do you want to say, listen, if the divorce, if a divorce happens, we can't think about what we've been using my family money for. It needs to only be based on what each of us have earned and can afford on our own.

[Ad Read Announcer]

So every state has its own laws governing divorce, right? That's correct. So what is the point of a prenup within your state? To your point, you might move, right?

[Marcy Katz]

You might move and you get to. There's a choice of law provision in the agreement so that if you move to California, but you have a New York choice of law provision, the financial provisions, not child support, not child custody, will be governed according to the laws in New York State. So you're really setting the guidelines for any court to consider.

[Ad Read Announcer]

We're talking about prenups with Marcy Katz and a current attorney practicing law at Pryor Cashman, where she's a partner. Listeners get in on the conversation. Do you have a prenup? How did you start that conversation with your partner? What worked for you? What didn't call in and share your experiences with us. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's say you've decided, yep, we should get a prenup. How do you start that conversation with your partner?

[Marcy Katz]

Well, you know, I think it really in the relationship, once you see this relationship moving forward, I think how you see handling finances during the marriage is a huge part of a relationship. So waiting to the last minute and saying, hey, listen, I don't want to share any of my earnings with you is a value system that you have, and it might not be the same as your partner. So you should really want to figure out if you have the same value system as it relates to earnings money. Both parties continuing to work, one person staying home to take care of the kids. As soon as you decide that this is someone you might want to have a serious relationship with.

[Alison Stewart]

So do you think you should wait until you're engaged to have this conversation?

[Marcy Katz]

Absolutely not. I don't think you should get engaged unless you've had this conversation. You know, I think people find themselves in very difficult situations where, you know, they get proposed to and now, you know, I like to say now with social media, people are posting pictures of their engagement. They have a photographer standing next to them, you know, ready to go, and they're posting for the world to see that they're getting married.

[Caller Tim / John]

And.

[Marcy Katz]

And then their partner says, oh, by the way, I want you to sign a prenup that nothing I earn is yours. Well, now this person has to decide, is it more embarrassing to say, I'm calling off the wedding, or, you know, are they just going to sign whatever this person wants? I think it takes away a lot of leverage. I hate that word in this conversation. But, you know, I think it's really important to discuss it to know that you're on the same page about financial matters before you decide to get married.

[Alison Stewart]

We got a text from a listener who asks the question, what about prior debt?

[Marcy Katz]

So prior debt is your own separate property in the state of New York. Again, I only practice in New York, so I don't know the rules everywhere, but I think there's a conversation to be had about, you know, how is this money going to be. How is this debt going to be paid off? What money are you going to use? If you're the spouse who doesn't have the debt, are you okay using marital earnings to pay off the debt? Right, because then all of a sudden, instead of accumulating assets, you're paying off someone else's debt. So I think having that conversation about what money will be used to pay it off is very important.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a couple calls.

[Marcy Katz]

Sure.

[Alison Stewart]

Tim. Is calling from Wall Township. Hi, Tim. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it. You're on the air.

[Caller Tim / John]

Hi. Yes, thank you so much for taking my call. So my wife and I did have a prenup. Her parents really wanted it to, but we went into it very amicably because we looked at it as, you know, we know that everybody changes through time. So instead of trying to look out for ourselves, it was really the foundation of our marriage, looking out for each other that way, in case I became a jerk in the future, for instance, she's protected against that and same. So it was actually a really kind of romantic start to our partnership because we were looking out for each other's futures, even from who we could. One, maybe Tim. And honestly, it was a really pleasant experience.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Aw.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you for calling in. That was a wonderful way to put it. Let me ask you, when you're putting together your prenup, who should be in the room? Should it be you and your lawyers? Because he mentioned the parents wanted a prenup.

[Marcy Katz]

That happens a lot. So, you know, each party should have their own counsel. So, you know, if you choose that you want your parents in the room with your counsel, that's one thing, but, you know, it's never going to be or it never should be. As far as I'm concerned, you having your parents and the other party in the room, I like to tell people, you know, there's oftentimes you could play kind of a good cop, bad cop, and that they should always use me as the bad cop because I want to preserve their relationship and make sure we don't get in the way of them deciding they want to get married. And oftentimes that involves me having to deal with, you know, how these parents feel and expressing, you know, concerns to the other lawyer that my client might not want to want to express.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Helene, who's calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Helene. Thank you so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.

[Caller Helene]

Hi. I just wanted to give my perspective of having been a divorce attorney for 25 years. And I think that the illusion that people have when they're doing prenups really gets changed at the end of the marriage. People talk very optimistically about we're doing an equal business deal, and I rarely find that that's true. Usually it's from the perspective of someone who already has money, even though what they have before is protected if it grows by active efforts, that's in the pot. And also the person who has the Greater perspective of earning a lot of money. And the other person, usually the woman still, even in this day of age, acknowledges that, thinking that the marriage is not going to end. And then at the end, instead of it being an amicable divorce, it's a very angry divorce because one person wants the prenup enforced, and the other person thinks that now it's inequitable. So I don't know if that has changed so much. The other thing about parents, when parents are pushing for a prenup, one of my feelings is you're really not creating your own partnership. You're still a part of that nuclear family that you belong to, and you are exercising their interests, and your interests are so tied to them. You know, one of the things I always felt when I see young people, first marriages flying this. How much did they really want to get connected as the new unit as opposed to remaining attached to the units they came from?

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you so much for calling in, Helene.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Is there anything you wanted to respond to that?

[Marcy Katz]

Yeah, listen, I think you just have to be realistic about what the issues are, right? If one party is getting significant funds from their family, and the family requires this prenup, so in the event the marriage ends, the money goes to whether it's sibling or grandchildren instead of the spouse. You know, I think that that's a reasonable request. And whether it's reasonable or not, I think, again, this is about financial conversations and whether these two people are on the same page and if the other party's okay with it. Again, like, having that conversation, to me is always the most important part.

[Ad Read Announcer]

We are talking about prenups with Marcy Katz, an attorney practicing family law at Prior Cashman where she is a partner. Listeners, we'd like to get you in on this conversation. Do you have a prenup? How did you start the conversation with your part? What worked for you, what didn't? You can call in and share your experience with us. Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. How long does it take to create a prenup?

[Marcy Katz]

Well, you know, sometimes people call me in the weddings in six weeks, and I do my best to get it done if the parties seem to be on the same page. You know, I think that's the question. If you have the conversation before you come to me, it's going to go a lot faster than if you call me and then you have to break the news to your fiance. So, you know, sometimes people come to me a year before and say we don't want to think about this at all as we're really enjoying the engagement process. So we'd like to do it now, but sometimes it happens at the end. You don't want to do it too close, especially if it's a very uneven division of assets. But I think three to six months, you can get it done.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll be talking more about prenups with Marcy Katz after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Marcy Katz, an attorney practicing family law at Pryor Cashman where she's a partner. And we are talking about prenups. Do you have a prenup? How'd you start the conversation with your partner? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to John, who's calling from Bath beach in Brooklyn. Hey, John, thanks for calling, all of it.

[Caller Tim / John]

Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to say that I was married and I didn't have a prenup because I just trusted my now ex wife. And, you know, like I believe in that expression, lightning doesn't strike twice. So my daughter was in the car before when your segment started, and I told her, I said, if I ever get married again, it's gonna have to have a prenup because I'm never gonna find anyone like your mother, because my ex wife just wasn't financially driven, like she wasn't motivated to the lack of a better term, clean me out. But I know it's not gonna happen again, you know, so I would get one. Now.

[Alison Stewart]

I wanted to say thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Jan, who's calling from upstate New York. Hi, Jan, thanks for calling, all of it.

[Caller Jan / Natalie]

Hi there. Oh, I love this conversation. And I'm gonna speak to my ladies for a minute because it, in my experience, has affected us the most. I did not have a prenup. You know that Gwen Guthrie song, Ain't Nothing Going on at the Ritz? No Romance Without Finance. If you cannot have a conversation with your partner about your finances previous to getting married, you need to understand that you have got to stop doing permanent things with temporary people. And in my situation, New York State, after 15 years of bankrolling a spouse to support his career because I believed in it, we then got to the state where we were separating and divorcing and New York State at the time is a state where precedent is set by your separation agreement. What you will agree to in your separation is what your final divorce details will be. You've got to back it all the way up, put in the time, have the conversation. Marry a partner and a spouse that wants to have these conversations and parents have no business being in the middle of their children's finances.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you for calling in, Jan. You know, Bell Burden's memoir Strangers is about the end of her marriage and it sparked a whole bunch of Reddit threads devoted to it. She writes about her divorce from her husband and how having a prenup and didn't protect her financially and her decision about her prenup, what it would be. Have you noticed women talking to you about this book or have you heard about it?

[Marcy Katz]

Definitely, you know, in that book and I read it a while ago. But I think the issue was, right, she agreed to the terms that the husband wanted with the lawyer on the phone, you know, listening to both of them, and asked the terms that were not in her best interest. And again, this is where I say, like, use your lawyer to be bad cop and say, no, this isn't happening. No, I'm not having a call with the two of you. Ask your lawyer to really stick up for you so that you don't have to have these conversations. Or as the last caller said, like, this is not the right partner for you. Right. Take that as a sign.

[Alison Stewart]

How does the process work? Do you and your partner, can you go to the same lawyer or is that considered counseling?

[Marcy Katz]

Yeah, you have to have your own lawyers. But. But if someone calls to me, the ideal client calls me and says, my fiance and I have worked out that we agree to the terms. Can you write this up then? What I usually say is, does your fiance have a lawyer? If not, I can give you some names of people who I really trust and respect in my field. They're not going to do what I ask them to do, but they're people who I know are not going to make this a bigger mess than it needs to be. And this way we can kind of all work amicably together to make sure that the clients intentions are put into the agreement.

[Alison Stewart]

I had a question around existing ip. If you go into before you get married and you have an idea for something or you create an app that in 10 years is worth a billion dollars, how do you address potential wealth?

[Marcy Katz]

Yeah. So I think you can certainly take that and say that this IP is created and any monies that come from it down the road are separate. New York would say, well, if you're working on this app during the marriage, the active efforts contributed are marital. But if you and your partner agree that you don't want this to be marital again, that you want to move it from the marital property bucket to the separate property bucket, that's an excellent reason to have a prenup and say, I created it before the marriage. Anything that comes from it, I want it to be mine. And if you're on the same page again, a prenup, you can do whatever you and your partner want, and that would be a great reason to do it.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Natalie, who's calling us from downtown Brooklyn. Hey, Natalie, thanks for taking the time to call.

[Caller Jan / Natalie]

All of it.

[Alison Stewart]

You're on the air.

[Caller Helene]

Hi.

[Natalie (Caller)]

So my perspective is coming from my view as a millennial woman. And I'm a woman of color. I'm the first person in my family to make a really decent salary. And I, in general, I have made more money than anyone that I've ever dated. And I've been on the dating scene for the last year, or I have been in the last year. And so something the way that I approached it is I just let people know that this was a personal value of mine. So if we dated, I would be having a prenup. And it made it easier to discuss with people because it wasn't decided on a relationship by relationship basis. And the way that people responded to that was also very valuable to me in terms of deciding who I wanted to date.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you.

[Natalie (Caller)]

And another thing that I did in respective to dating is basically a friend gave me some advice that was, you essentially already have a prenup. It's whatever your state is deciding. And so you either decide that you want the state to decide for you or make a decision for yourself. And that's something that I value doing, is making decisions about my own life. And so I did that. And it's also better to do it while you're happy with each other rather than what could potentially be a sour situation in the future.

[Alison Stewart]

Natalie, thank you for your perspective. It's interesting. There's a lot of media outlets are quoting this statistic about 1 in 5 adults who are either married or engaged had a prenuptial agreement. This is according to a Harris Poll. The share was higher among younger adults who were engaged or had been married. 41% of Gen Z respondents said they had signed one, as did 47% of millennials. What do you think is behind that increase?

[Marcy Katz]

So I think, you know, we have to think about how traditional marriages don't exist as much anymore. Right. It used to be that husband went to work every day and, you know, wife stayed home with the kids. But now that women are in the workforce, women as that last caller, are earning more than men in a lot of fields or, you know, that women can say, this is how I want to have a financial partnership, which they couldn't necessarily do before. So I think women are really, you know, kind empowered to have this conversation now that they can say, I can take care of myself and this is how I see things going forward.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Let's talk to Vernita from Jersey City. Hey, Vernita, thanks for calling, all of it. What was your experience with the prenup?

[Caller Vernita / Fiona]

My experience was, good morning, everybody. My experience was positive. I recognized that there was an age difference between my husband and I. He was, his career was further along than mine at the time. And so, and he was also, I was his going to be his second wife. So he, I recognized that he wanted to protect what he had earned prior to me and wanted to have, you know, complete face that faith that, you know, I wasn't just marrying him for, you know, financial circumstances. And so we had a time horizon on ours of just five years, I'm happy to say. We came up with our own plan and like I said, it had the five year time horizon and we've been married 22 years now. So it turned out to be a very positive experience for us.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you mean when you said

[Ad Read Announcer]

the five year time horizon exactly?

[Caller Vernita / Fiona]

Well, I mean, it only, it was only for the benefit of he didn't want to get married and then soon thereafter, you know, we get divorced and then all his fight, our finances are tied up and then, and we got married in California. So, you know, it's just something that we thought about. And I respected his decision to request it. And I was also like, I'm a child of a May December marriage and I just recognize, you know, the implications on his child and in the future and just wanting to make sure people weren't worried, you know, about how things were going to play out in, in the event that if we, if we, you know, if we did get divorced or if, you know, something more tragic happened, you know, within that five year time frame. But like I said, we've been married 22 years now and very happy.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Thank you so much for calling in. We have a question, Marcy. This says, does a prenup later have any precedence over a subsequent will? Is there anything to consider when Making a will if you have a prenup.

[Marcy Katz]

So as I said, the fourth part of the prenup, I like to say we get to talk about or the parties get to decide what they want to happen. If one party dies while they're still married. And, you know, in New York State, if your partner dies and you don't have, and you have a will and you don't leave a third of your estate to your spouse, your spouse can elect their right of election and say, I want my third. So in a prenup, you can talk about whether in New York again, you can waive that right to the right of election. So your will can always leave someone more. But people will say, well, if we're still. What if we're still happily married? In my joke, I like to say, well, you could still be married and not happily. Like you don't know where you are in that phase. So, you know, you should definitely address, you know, and I think it could change depending on whether you have kids, whether you have a child from a prior marriage. It's really important to address what happens if you die. So, you know, I think that that's just as important as what happens if you're, you know, if you get divorced.

[Alison Stewart]

Can you tweak a prenup?

[Marcy Katz]

Yeah. So you can enter into a post nuptial agreement that you can make any changes you want. It just has to be in the same, you know, form and manner and executed the same way as the prenup. But certainly you can make changes.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Fiona from Huntington, Long Island. Hi, Fiona. Thanks for calling all of it.

[Caller Vernita / Fiona]

Thank you very much. This is a great discussion. My son was married in California, had a prenup prior to marriage. He and his partner lived together for six or seven years and now getting a divorce. Does the prenup just apply to the period of marriage or is there some call on the monies, sort of earned jointly or bank accounts prior to the marriage?

[Marcy Katz]

So I don't know how it works in California. Here, the prenup really just addresses the marriage. I mean, in the prenup, any bank accounts that you had together before the marriage, I'm sure you're going to list them on. In order to have an enforceable agreement, you have to list all your assets and liabilities that exist as of the date of marriage. So if you have a joint account, right. As of the date of the marriage, you're going to decide in the prenup what to do with that. But the prenup itself really Just talks about. Well, I guess it talks about everything that exists from before and after, whether it's joint or separate.

[Alison Stewart]

There was an article in the New Yorker a few months ago titled why Millennials Love Prenups. And the author wrote that over the course of reporting the article, she came to see the value of considering a prenup. This is a quote from the article. The conversation alone is kind of a personality test. Are you about to marry a person who wants to be reimbursed for the wallpaper you put up in the nursery? Who doesn't want to help you pay off your student loans? Who wants to give the ring back? Or does this person look at you and think, I want to give this woman everything? What's your take on this?

[Marcy Katz]

I think that's pretty extreme. I think that there's certainly a fairness to if someone comes into the marriage with a lot more money and uses it to support the lifestyle and wants credits for. I mean, wallpaper is one thing, but renovation to your marital home, I don't think that that's necessarily a negative or should be seen to be that extreme. I think if it does get that extreme and you're marrying someone like that, the question is, maybe we're getting married, but we're not having a financial partnership. And are you okay with that dynamic? Right. If you have totally different values regarding your finances, and if you are, no judgment, right? No judgment on what you want to do. As long as you and your partner are on the same page, I am fine with it. I think when you're not on the same page and you're trying to convince yourself to do something that you otherwise don't want to do? That's where the issues are.

[Alison Stewart]

What is the biggest misconceptions that people come to you with when they come

[Ad Read Announcer]

to you and say, I want a

[Alison Stewart]

prenup, what do you have to sort

[Ad Read Announcer]

of straighten them out about?

[Marcy Katz]

Well, you know, I think the misconception is that you only get a prenup if you don't trust the other person. And I think that really, as one of the callers said, it's not about that. It's, you know, I said to. I have a friend who's a therapist, and I said to her a long time ago, and she still remembers, you know, this person's never going to love you or want to give you more than they want to give you right now. Right. You're in the middle of engagement bliss, and this is the best you're going to get. So I think it's about Thinking about it that way as opposed to like wanting to destroy the other person, like what makes sense for us, this could be a positive thing. You're having the conversation. You don't have to litigate down the road. So it doesn't mean that this person's a bad person if they want to get one of these agreements. And I have to say, I think younger people are seeing that, right? The older generations are like a prenup. Like, it's so tacky and what are you doing? But younger people are like, wait a second, let's make the decisions about how we handle our financial partnership for during the marriage. Like if you need, if you know that you don't have a financial partnership, don't leave your job, right? Don't leave your job to take care of kids. But at least, you know, up front that's how you have to be thinking. And I actually think that's such a positive as opposed to like the negative spin that these, that these agreements used to get.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Marcie Katz is an attorney practicing family law at Pryor Cashman. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Marcy Katz]

Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.

[Amyloid.com Advertiser]

If you walk into a room and can't remember why, it could be nothing or something more. If you confuse a familiar recipe, it could be a slip up or it could be associated with amyloid plaque buildup in the brain. Amyloid is a protein that your body produces naturally. But a buildup in the brain could lead to memory and thinking issues. To see what may be behind your memory and thinking issues, talk to your doctor about getting a full assessment. It's never too early to start the conversation. Visit amyloid.com to learn more.

[DISH Advertiser]

Dish has been connecting communities like yours for the last 45 years, providing the TV you love at a price you can trust. Watch live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to DISH today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at $89.99 a month with our two year price guarantee. D Call 888 at dish or visit dish. Com today.