Neko Case Looked Back At Her Childhood In Order To Move Forward

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Niko Case Looked Back At Her Childhood In Order To Move Forward"

All Of It is a captivating episode of WNYC’s culture-focused podcast, ALL OF IT, hosted by Alison Stewart. In this deeply personal and insightful conversation, musician and author Nico Case delves into her tumultuous upbringing, her journey through music and writing, and the profound experiences that shaped her memoir, The Harder I Fight, the More I Love You. The episode, released on January 28, 2025, offers listeners an intimate look into Nico’s life, blending themes of resilience, creativity, and healing.

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Introduction to Nico Case and Her Memoir

The episode opens with Alison Stewart introducing Nico Case, highlighting her unique musical talents and the compelling nature of her memoir:

Alison Stewart [00:00]: “Musician Nico Case got her start playing drums, then learned guitar. But the instrument you probably know her from is her voice. It's clear and fierce and imposing, and you combine it with her lyrical and enigmatic songwriting.”

Nico Case’s memoir, The Harder I Fight, the More I Love You, is described as a raw and honest exploration of her challenging childhood and the transformative power of music.

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Connection Between Memoir and Music

Alison inquires about the relationship between the memoir's title and Nico’s 2013 album:

Alison Stewart [01:58]: “The title of your memoir recalls the title of your 2013 album, The Worse Things Get, the Harder I Fight, the More I Love You. Is there a connection between the memoir and that record?”

Nico confirms the connection, explaining the collaborative decision with her editor:

Nico Case [02:10]: “In a way, yes... Colin Dickerman, who is my main editor at Grand Central in Hechet, he said that he thought it would be a good idea... I was like, you know what? I concur. You're right. That's the right title.”

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Navigating a Difficult Childhood

Nico opens up about her upbringing, marked by emotional neglect and instability:

Nico Case [03:11]: “I usually describe it as pretty difficult. There was lots of joy, too. But, you know, raising yourself as a kid is not preferable.”

She discusses the lack of parental support and the isolation she felt as a child, emphasizing the impact of having teenage parents who were largely disinterested in parenting.

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Developing Coping Mechanisms and Self-Understanding

The conversation shifts to Nico’s realization of her loneliness and her path to self-expression through music:

Nico Case [04:23]: “I can describe it pretty accurately... I've been talking to my dear friends about it for a really long time. So, you know, that combined with years of therapy...”

She reflects on how writing the memoir served as a way to organize her thoughts, even if it didn't bring immediate revelations:

Nico Case [04:27]: “I can put the brick on the shelf like a hard drive. And so now that information is right there where I need it, but it doesn't have to be floating around in my brain.”

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Complex Relationship with Her Parents

Nico candidly discusses her strained relationship with her parents, particularly her mother:

Nico Case [05:27]: “My dad was incredibly sad, pretty much really depressed.”

Nico Case [05:36]: “I would describe my mom as a grifter.”

She elaborates on the manipulative and calculating nature of her mother, leading to a complete severance of ties:

Nico Case [06:14]: “I haven't had a relationship with my mom in years and years and years. Like, I cut off ties a long time ago.”

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Revelation of Her Mother’s Faked Death

A significant and shocking revelation in the memoir is discussed, with Nico confirming the faked death of her mother:

Nico Case [07:25]: “Yes. Spoiler coming up. Turn away.”

Alison steers the conversation to this pivotal moment:

Alison Stewart [07:25]: “In the book, we learn that your mother has faked her death.”

Nico recounts the emotional turmoil of discovering her mother’s deceit:

Nico Case [07:50]: “...she didn't want me so badly that she decided to, you know, just end her current life and go elsewhere, which she did.”

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Exploring the Theme of Forgiveness

Nico challenges conventional notions of forgiveness, arguing that it shouldn’t be seen as an obligatory act:

Nico Case [09:41]: “Forgiveness is something that people really encourage us to do when we have been traumatized by someone... But if you can't find it in yourself to forgive someone, it's not your job to work at it to forgive them.”

She expresses skepticism about societal pressures to forgive abusers, emphasizing authentic and organic forgiveness when it truly happens.

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Journey Through Music and Education

The discussion moves to Nico’s pursuit of music amidst societal expectations:

Nico Case [11:37]: “I would never let myself have that lightning bolt. It would kind of... I grew up a female in America in the 70s and 80s and nobody expected anything of us.”

Nico shares her struggle with ADHD and the profound impact its diagnosis had on her academic and professional life:

Nico Case [14:50]: “At 19, I was diagnosed with ADHD and I was put on Ritalin, and I was in junior college at that time... I can describe it pretty accurately.”

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Dealing with Loss and Rebuilding

Nico opens up about the devastating house fire in 2017 and the subsequent challenges in rebuilding her life:

Nico Case [15:56]: “I'm obsessed. And that is a very normal trait for kids who've had a lot of trauma in their childhood... My house burned down in 2017.”

She discusses the emotional and logistical hurdles she faces, including dealing with depression and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic:

Nico Case [17:12]: “There's always goodness and there's always light... nobody was hurt.”

Nico offers heartfelt advice to others facing similar disasters, emphasizing the importance of community and self-compassion.

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Humor Amidst Hardship

Despite the heavy themes, Nico highlights the humor found in her past experiences, making her story relatable and multifaceted:

Nico Case [21:21]: “There's so much to find funny that I still laugh about now... like, my friend Nate, he's like, yeah, I had a house that only had three walls and the fourth wall was a sheet.”

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Influence of Other Artists and Creative Processes

Nico expresses admiration for fellow musicians and authors, citing Ricky Lee Jones as an inspiration:

Nico Case [22:15]: “She's such an incredible writer... her memoir reads like a novel. You can't put it down.”

She contrasts songwriting with memoir writing, noting the differences in creative expression:

Nico Case [23:18]: “I didn't set out to write a memoir. I've been working on a book of fiction for years... talking about myself is weird.”

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Upcoming Projects and Musical Endeavors

The conversation touches on Nico’s current and future projects, including her involvement in a musical adaptation of Thelma and Louise:

Nico Case [25:36]: “Yes. Callie is writing the story, and I'm writing the songs for a musical version of Thelma and Louise.”

She also reveals details about her upcoming album, emphasizing her commitment to authentic sound through live instrumentation:

Nico Case [26:11]: “I hired an orchestra. I wanted it to be as much live human being sounds as possible... I found it very moving.”

Nico explains her dedication to preserving the integrity of live music, contrasting it with modern trends that often prioritize digital sounds over genuine live performances.

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Conclusion and Upcoming Events

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by promoting Nico’s upcoming conversation with author Emma Straub at a Brooklyn venue and highlights Nico's website for more information:

Alison Stewart [28:18]: “She'll be in conversation tonight with Emma Straub at 7pm at the First Unitarian Congregational Society in Brooklyn. Nico, thank you for joining us.”

Nico expresses gratitude and enthusiasm for her continued artistic journey:

Nico Case [28:32]: “Thank you so much for having me.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of ALL OF IT masterfully intertwines Nico Case’s personal history with her creative pursuits, offering listeners a profound understanding of how her early life challenges fueled her artistic endeavors. Through candid storytelling and reflective insights, Nico Case not only shares her struggles but also her triumphs, providing inspiration and solace to those navigating similar paths. The inclusion of notable quotes with timestamps enhances the narrative, allowing listeners to engage deeply with the pivotal moments of Nico’s story.

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For more information about Nico Case and her projects, visit nicocase.com.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Listener Supported WNYC Studios this is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Musician Nico Case got her start playing drums, then learned guitar. But the instrument you probably know her from is her voice. It's clear and fierce and imposing, and you combine it with her lyrical and enigmatic songwriting. You understand why NPR critics Stephen Thompson once said of her quote, Case remains essentially peerless. No one sounds like her. So every little revelation feels altogether new. There are a lot of revelations in her new memoir titled the Harder I Fight, the More I love you. In it, Nico starts at the beginning. She was born in Washington state to two teenage parents who had no real interest in being parents. So now you can think of cliched adjectives to describe the deprivation of her childhood. Dickinson, Scrabble, Dirt. Scrabble Hard Pour. Dirt Pour. But this isn't Nico Kia's writing. So instead of stock phrases, you get the emotion of bottomless loneliness. There's a deep joy in finding beauty in animals and nature. And the lightning bolt moment when she realizes that making music could help her transform the energy deep inside her into something real and powerful. You get the idea. She joins me now to discuss the Harder I Fight, the More I love you. Nico Case, welcome back to all of it. Nice to see you in person.

[Nico Case]

Yeah, I know. It's so exciting to actually be here with you. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

The title of your memoir recalls the title of your 2013 album, the worse Things get, the Harder I Fight, the harder I fight, the more I love you. Is there a connection between the memoir and that record?

[Nico Case]

In a way, yes. And I didn't choose the title of the memoir. Colin Dickerman, who is my main editor at Grand Central in Hechet, he, he said that he thought it would be a good idea. And at first I was kind of like, eh, I wanted to call it something kind of stupid. And then I realized, you know what, he's my main editor for a reason and it makes sense. And I was like, you know what? I concur. You're right. That's the right title.

[Alison Stewart]

So like, what did you want to call it?

[Nico Case]

I wanted to call it Unstreamable Beast, but I don't think that's gonna Edit or end. Not edit, but, like, age. People. Like, if we don't have streaming anymore, in, like, five minutes, people are going to be like, what is she talking about?

[Alison Stewart]

You start at the beginning. Those of us who grew up in the 70s, you know, we were kind of unruly. We didn't really have parents, but nothing really compared to your parents who were teenagers when they had you. How do you describe your childhood when you talk to people about it?

[Nico Case]

I usually describe it as pretty difficult. There was lots of joy, too. But, you know, raising yourself as a kid is not preferable. But, you know, when you're a kid, you don't necessarily understand that that's not how everybody's growing up unless you, you know, travel around a lot or have a lot of friends or family that you mingle with a lot. So I just. I knew I was lonely, but I didn't know that there would be any cure for that necessarily or there was anything I could do about that.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you develop the vocabulary to be able to talk about it?

[Nico Case]

I've always been an oversharer and a talker, so I've been talking to my dear friends about it for a really long time. So, you know, that combined with years of therapy have definitely made me feel, you know, like I could. I can describe it pretty accurately. And, you know, I try to be as unbiased as I can, but obviously you can't be unbiased about your own parents. So.

[Alison Stewart]

Did it help to write it down in a memoir?

[Nico Case]

Sorry, I have some stuff in my throat. Not so much. Oh, I'm okay. It didn't help so much. Like, big revelations or like, I felt differently because I think I'd kind of gotten to a better place with it before that. But there's like a super nerdy ADHD Virgo thing that happened where I was like, I'm putting it all in this brick. And I can put the brick on the shelf like a hard drive. And so now that information is right there where I need it, but it doesn't have to be floating around in my brain. So in that way, it's kind of nice.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Nico Case. The name of the book is the Harder I Fight the More I Love youe A Memoir. Nico will be in conversation with Emma Straub. We love Emma straub. Tonight at 7pm It's a books Are Magic event. It's being held at First Unitarian Congregational Society in Brooklyn. For more information, go to nicocase.com so your dad, he comes off, he's kind of sad.

[Nico Case]

My dad was incredibly sad, pretty much really depressed.

[Alison Stewart]

And your mom comes across as something else. How would you describe her?

[Nico Case]

I would describe my mom as a grifter.

[Alison Stewart]

Grifter? What makes you say grifter?

[Nico Case]

Because she was incredibly manipulative and, you know, at times, fairly calculating about it.

[Alison Stewart]

You write that things left in her care died. She would not protect them. She would not try to save them. As you wrote this book, did your relationship change at all with your mom?

[Nico Case]

I haven't had a relationship with my mom in years and years and years. Like, I cut off ties a long time ago.

[Alison Stewart]

So you felt, I guess, liberated in a sense, to just write the truth?

[Nico Case]

Well, I think if somebody can go so hard and so far out of the way to, you know, do the things she did.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[Nico Case]

I don't really think that there's any sort of moral obligation to not speak about what happened, because the collateral damage was everywhere.

[Alison Stewart]

Do we talk about the big thing that she did, or do you want people to know?

[Nico Case]

Well, I don't want to ruin it for people who are going to read it, but people have asked me about it in conversation. I don't know. It's up to you. It's your show, so I sort of.

[Alison Stewart]

Want to mention it because it took me by surprise. I think anybody who reads it, it will still take them by surprise.

[Nico Case]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, so we're doing it. This is a quick spoiler. We'll be on it and off it for anybody who's listening.

[Nico Case]

Yeah. Spoiler coming up. Turn away.

[Alison Stewart]

In the book, we learn that your mother has faked her death.

[Nico Case]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

And, you know, and basically for you.

[Nico Case]

I was in second and third grade, and my mother was, for all intents and purposes, dead. Myself and my father and my stepfather, we did not know that she was not.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. How did you find out?

[Nico Case]

My father came to pick me up at school one day, and I got in his car, and he said to me, he said, okay, I don't want you to think that your mommy is a ghost, but your mom is back. And my first thought was, like, are you effing kidding me? How stupid do you think I am? It's like, I'm not gonna think she's a ghost. And being the little kid that I was, I immediately. I was very depressed, and I was very sad and lonely without my mom. I really. I worshiped my mom. And, you know, to have her back was all I wanted. And so I immediately, all of my focus was there. Where is she? Can we go see her right now? Kind of a thing.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you interpret that action?

[Nico Case]

Well, that action was explained away that she had had cancer and she did not want me to see her die and so she left.

[Alison Stewart]

That wasn't true as far as you were concerned?

[Nico Case]

No.

[Alison Stewart]

And what did that mean to you?

[Nico Case]

That meant she didn't want me so badly that she decided to, you know, just end her current life and go elsewhere, which she did.

[Alison Stewart]

I love this. This is a really interesting line and it means so much more once you've read that part of the book that you say, I have never seen a ghost, but I have been haunted. Yes, Nico Case is my guest. The book is called the Harder I Fight, the More I Love youe. It's a memoir you write. One of the bad ideas is that forgiveness is the ultimate act of courage. It's not. I don't believe forgiveness is something you can actively do with any realness or sincerity. What led you to that belief?

[Nico Case]

Well, I want to clarify a little bit because it's a pretty open ended statement without the rest of the book behind it. Basically what I'm saying is forgiveness is something that people really encourage us to do when we have been traumatized by someone or brutalized by someone because it'll make us better people. But if you can't find it in yourself to forgive someone, it's not your job to work at it to forgive them. I think that's kind of something that has been used in favor of the abusers and to make abuse easier and to make it easier for people to get away with it. Because actual forgiveness, real forgiveness, when you find it organically, whether you're trying to or not trying to, is a really beautiful, transformative thing. And it's kind of been co opted to be this thing where, well, now you have to forgive. So, you know, and I hear a lot of, I've heard a lot of people over my life, you know, saying, well, I found the forgiveness and so now I'm free. And sometimes it sounded sincere and sometimes it didn't. And I, I am not a petty human being by any stretch of the imagination. And there are things I can't forgive. And I realize, well, you can't forgive them because they're horrible and they never should have happened to you. No one has ever said I'm sorry. No one has ever, you know, tried to make amends. And there are things you can't make amends for.

[Alison Stewart]

One of the things in the book that is really great are the passages about how much, how excited you would get when you Would meet a musician or you heard some music in the book, did you ever have a lightning bolt of, yes, I'm going to be a musician?

[Nico Case]

I would never let myself have that lightning bolt. It would kind of. I would have it, but it would become a different sensation in my body, I think, because, you know, I grew up a female in America in the 70s and 80s and nobody expected anything of us. And those kind of things, you know, art and music, etc. Those kind of things were very much touted as things that were pipe dreams and not worth pursuing because it was very Reagan era business, business, business. When my young consciousness, like post Carter era, you know, it was very business, business, business. Everything is. Is not worth your time, get serious, find real pursuits. And then the double negative of, well, you're just a woman anyway. And of course, I believed that about myself as a young person. I didn't believe it. I didn't believe it as in that's what I thought of myself necessarily. I mean, sometimes I did, but mostly it was like, well, no one's gonna let me.

[Alison Stewart]

More like I found that music was the place to go. I graduated from college in 88, and I was just like, I'm gonna work in the music business. Forget those people. I'm just gonna do it. Yeah. And I just did it. I just said, well, you can take whatever your Reaganomics and put it over there. I'm going over here. That's what I'm gonna do. And it was illuminating. It let a light off in my side. Yeah.

[Nico Case]

Because you realize those gatekeepers aren't even real. And that was just like this weird mantra going on everywhere, but it wasn't real.

[Alison Stewart]

I thought it was interesting. In the book, by the way, my guest is Nico Case, the author of the Harder I Fight the More I Love youe A Memoir. You move from place to place to place all throughout your teenage years. And at age, I think it was 16, you legally became emancipated. Is that right? First of all, why did you do that?

[Nico Case]

Because I wanted to go to high school. I wanted to finish my schooling. I wanted to live in Tacoma away from. I needed to live away from my mother because she was drinking so heavily that she would forget to let me in the house, and I would be, you know, outside with nowhere to go in the dark. And I just didn't want to be in that situation anymore. She could not sign the papers fast enough. I moved in to a friend's mom's basement in Tacoma, and I tried to go to high school and I tried to get a job, and being only the age I was, people just were not willing to hire me. They were like, you should be in school. But the problem was, is if you don't have any money, you don't have any food, and if you don't have any food, your brain is tired. Yeah, I couldn't learn anything. I had a hard time getting there on time, but I really tried. But then I felt like the failure. I just felt like, you're so stupid. You can't do any of this, you know? So it was a lose, lose situation.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you stop feeling like a failure?

[Nico Case]

At 19, I was diagnosed with ADHD and I was put on Ritalin, and I was in junior college at that time. And I went from flailing and floundering and sometimes dropping out to being on the dean's list within a month. So finding out that I was not stupid and not unorganized, I just had a hard time focusing. A very hard time focusing and just being given the validation by the doctor that that was indeed the case.

[Alison Stewart]

That's gotta be liberating for me.

[Nico Case]

It was so liberating, it changed my life for the better. And I'm so lucky that I somehow found out about it at that age and was persistent about going in. Luckily, I had a job at United Parcel Service at the time, and they covered all medical, dental, health, vision. So it was a really good job and I was able to go and get the health care I needed.

[Alison Stewart]

Now that you. You know, I'm curious what your relationship with home is like now, given how much you moved around as a little kid. Do you think of home? Do you?

[Nico Case]

I'm obsessed. And that is a very normal trait for kids who've had a lot of trauma in their childhood. Also, my house burned down in 2017. Oh, no. I'm still trying to rebuild it. And it has been really hard because Covid happened right after that. And, you know, I was taken advantage of by several contractors, and it has been impossible. And I still don't know what's going to happen, to be honest. So home is. There's been a lot of depression about not being able to ground myself because, you know, I don't even really have, like, a dresser to put clothes in. It's kind of like living out of a suitcase in your own house. It'll wear you down. And it's been, you know, almost 10 years now.

[Alison Stewart]

I almost want to ask this, but have you been able to find any goodness out of the situation you're in? Like, when you sit back and you look at it, and it looks bleak and dark, and you think, okay, this is bleak and dark. Is there any light? Is there any goodness? Anything? You're learning.

[Nico Case]

Yeah, there's always goodness and there's always light. When the house burned down, my partner and I, we lost pretty much all of our stuff. And it's one thing to say to yourself, well, stuff doesn't matter. But then when your house burns down and you still feel like you still actually go, okay, I actually. I don't care about that stuff. It's a relief to know that your values that you have actually stand up when you actually go through the thing and, you know, no one was hurt. And right at that time, Puerto Rico was underwater. Houston had just had massive flooding. And, you know, we got out of there with every. Every person and animal intact. And, you know, that was a lot.

[Alison Stewart]

For people who are listening to this in California. We do have a lot of listeners, actually, in California, but what advice would you give to them as someone who lived through a fire?

[Nico Case]

Well. Well, there are things that it's kind of too late for. One is make sure that your house is insured for current market value, not the value that you bought it at. That's what I did. That was not. Not so smart. But I just didn't know, really. Be good to yourself. It is. So it's gonna take a while. And, you know, like I said, the stuff doesn't matter, but that's up to you to feel like there are some people who. Some things really matter to you because they represent a person or a time. And that's valid, too, you know, rely on each other. Like, it's horrible that so many people lost their homes, and it's beautiful that there's such a huge community that can come from that. The help on the ground I've been seeing has been so restorative and gorgeous, and I'm so proud of everyone for the way they're behaving and the way they're helping their neighbors. And, yeah, it's going to be a while, but I don't think you're gonna carry the actual thing with you. Like, a lot of people did have the trauma of being there during the fire, which I did not have. So I can't give advice on that because I don't understand it. But, you know, I just. I know you're gonna be okay. And it's so empty to hear that, but it's really true.

[Alison Stewart]

Like, it's not empty from you, though.

[Nico Case]

Well, I don't know, there's just like this feeling like you're just completely soaked with oil, and anything somebody says to you just is kind of like, okay. You know, so people who are having that feeling like they're just wearing a big woolly blanket soaked in oil, that's gross. You know, that feeling is gonna go away, too. I'm so sorry that that's happening to you. You don't. You don't deserve it. But the thing about the trauma is, is that, you know, nature does not hate us. And nothing personal happened to you, so that is a good thing. Nobody wanted this for you. There's no malice behind it. It's just nature and what nature does.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Nico Case, author of the Harder I Fight the More I love you A Memoir. Nico will be in conversation with Emma straub tonight at 7. It's a books are magic event, and it's being held at the First Unitarian Congregational Society in Brooklyn. For more information, go to nicocase.com this, I want to point out, this is not a grim book. There's some really funny parts of this, really funny parts of this book. Like, you go to Saturday school for church, and the youth pastor describes the music the kids like as satanic. And one of the kids in the class goes, I'm sorry. Even hall of notes, just a funny story.

[Nico Case]

Well, yeah. I mean, there's. There's something about growing up super poor that, like, it is so ridiculous. There's so much to find funny that I still laugh about now. And I love meeting people who grew up that way, too. Like, the stories are epic and hilarious. Like, my friend Nate, he's like, yeah, I had a house that only had three walls and the fourth wall was a sheet. You know, just stuff like that. Like, it sucks, but it's really funny.

[Alison Stewart]

You thank Ricky Lee Jones in your acknowledgment section for writing such an inspirational memoir. We were talking about this when the mics were off. Like, musicians write the best memoir. She wrote a great memoir. What did reading her book do for you?

[Nico Case]

I just felt so excited to read about the life of a person who had such a huge influence on me as a kid and even now. And I. She's such an incredible writer. Really incredible. And her memoir reads like a novel. You can't put it down. The stories are so dense and riddled with really beautiful descriptions and details. And it's really lyrical and really gorgeous. And also, I have to say, the audiobook version, she reads in her own voice, and I really enjoyed that because she kind of does little asides. Now and again, she cracks herself up. And I just love hearing that. I loved. I loved every second of it, and I was sad when it was done.

[Alison Stewart]

In your writing, what are the similarities and what are the differences between songwriting and writing a memoir?

[Nico Case]

Well, I didn't set out to write a memoir. I've been working on a book of fiction for years. But when I got a call from Colin Dickerman at Hechet, he said, well, we'll pay you to write a memoir. And I was like, okay, memoir it is. You know, just, I'm not. If you read the book, you understand, like, my family are not people who talk about themselves. And so talking about myself is weird. But, you know, it's not like, the first thing I would choose to do, because when I think about all my memories, I'm like, well, I already know all my memories. Like, that's pretty boring. You know, it's like, you want to write a new thing. That's exciting. So I luckily, when I would get stuck, like, oh, God, nobody wants to hear this. It's so dull. I had a really great editor named Carrie Fry who was helping me.

[Alison Stewart]

I hope you use that voice, too.

[Nico Case]

Oh, God, your life is dull as ditchwater. Yes, but Carrie Fry would come up with really great prompts, and she was so fun to work with, and we became friends, and, you know, I just so look forward to talking to her every week, and she made it fun.

[Alison Stewart]

You've been on book tour. I think you were with Sam B. Last night. Maybe you're on a big, long book tour. How is it different from the music tour? Because the music tour. You have a little fun sometimes on stage.

[Nico Case]

Oh, you can eat a lot right before you go on stage. So it's kind of my fantasy tour. Because you can't eat before you go up to sing. Otherwise, you're just like a bullfrog with no stomach capacity for moving sound.

[Alison Stewart]

Is it. How are you feeling about talking about your book and yourself?

[Nico Case]

Well, I still find myself boring, but I am very pleased that people are interested in the book. And, you know, it's very validating to have people excited about it. And, frankly, a relief. You know, it's. It's odd. It's an odd thing to do.

[Alison Stewart]

You're working with. Is it Cali Khoury on writing songs for Thelma and Louise. Is that true?

[Nico Case]

Yes. Callie is writing the story, and I'm writing the songs for a musical version of Thelma and Louise.

[Alison Stewart]

And how is it going?

[Nico Case]

Well, we're almost nine years in and I'm not a person to say this about my work ever, but I think the musical is really phenomenal and I am so proud of it. And I cannot wait for people to see it. And I don't know when it's going to be live on its feet, but it's getting close.

[Alison Stewart]

And you have a new album coming out later this year. Can you tell us a little more.

[Nico Case]

About it in the fall? Yes. I just finished the mastering part with Heba Kadri, and, you know, the second I get back from this book tour, I start working on the artwork for the record. But I'm very pleased with it. I recorded it in my own studio and the record is about musicians and it's kind of a love letter to musicians in a way.

[Alison Stewart]

How?

[Nico Case]

Well, I, I hired an orchestra. I wanted it to be as much live human being sounds as possible. Not that, you know, you can't. It's not a live human being if you have a sample and a keyboard of a horn player. But I wanted the real horn players and the real violinists and cellists, et cetera, to be there making the noise. I wanted to see what the difference was to having, you know, 20 people there versus just multi tracking three people over and over and over again. And it is very different. And it, it's. I find it very moving. And to hear the air move and to feel the, the swelling of things as it is intended is very, very different. And I hope people notice that. Like, I'm very attuned to that sort of thing because I've been in the business for a long time and that's the way I listen to music. And I grew up in the 70s and 80s, as you did, where hi fi technology was a really big deal. And so the sounds of the music made in that era are like caramel to your ears. And people aren't really looking for that now, which is also valid. It's a lot easier to listen to music as you're on the go or riding the train or what have you, but there's just been such a concerted effort to take musicians out of the whole mix.

[Alison Stewart]

Nico Case is the author of the Harder I Fight, the More I Love you. She'll be in conversation tonight with emma Straub at 7pm at the first Unitarian Congregational Society in Brooklyn. Nico, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it.

[Nico Case]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

There's more, all of it after the news.

[Nico Case]

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[Alison Stewart]

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