← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
New Doc 'Speak' About Competitive High School Speech And Debate
00:26:24
“Speak,” new documentary, takes a look inside the world of competitive high school public speaking.
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- [00:09]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. What do Oprah, Brad Pitt, Justice Ketanji, Brown, Jackson and Bruce Springsteen have in common? Like thousands of American teenagers, they all competed in speech and debate. Speech and debate is the high school tradition where an individual can shine, most notably in original oratory. In original oratory, a student is asked to make a 10 minute speech about a topic that matters to them. The speech must be recited from memory with source citations, clear and concise reasoning, and a bit of theatrical performance. The competition culminates every year in nationals when the best students gather to deliver their final speeches to win the prize. A new documentary follows five high school students and it is called Speak. It opens in theaters in New York City today. Director Jennifer Teixeir is here now and co director Guy Mossman. Welcome to the studio.
- [01:04]
Jennifer Teixeira
Thank you for having us.
- [01:05]
Alison Stewart
And later on, we're talking to two of the subjects that are in the film, but we're going to talk to the filmmakers first. Jennifer, from your perspective, what makes speech and debate a strong documentary setting?
- [01:17]
Jennifer Teixeira
Well, there's the obvious reason and that's the competition, but I think we realized very soon on that that was really going to take a back seat to the kids stories and their truths. The thing that's so special about original oratory is they're based in, like you said, something important to them, but more specifically their heart story. Right. These are things that they've lived, lived, experience. And then on top of that, it's fact, fact checking, fact based analysis, something that, I don't know, we're not doing so much of these days. And so, you know, when you have five original beautiful heart stories, I mean, it's so rich. And then you bring in the families, the coaches, it was just, yeah, it was an embarrassment of riches.
- [02:02]
Alison Stewart
Guy, you tell the story through five students. Esther from Florida, Mafaz from Minnesota, Noor from Texas, Noah from Texas, and Sam from Minnesota. What were you looking for when you were looking for kids that you wanted to follow?
- [02:15]
Guy Mossman
Well, we had been developing this for a couple of years and so due to Covid, we had a couple of false starts. So we had some time to kind of perfect the casting and figure out exactly what we wanted, but also kind of what would, how to, how to find that. And so in the end we decided that following speech kids in this event, oratory made the most sense. And so in order to do that, we needed to whittle it down and basically do hundreds of calls even after having whittled it down. There are over 140,000 registrants right now, total. That's debate included and speech. But oratory is one of maybe 15 or 16 events. So the pool of students went from. Probably went from several thousand down to 3 or 400. And we worked with our partner, the National Speech and Debate association, to help identify, and they gave us. Basically, they helped. They got us in touch with coaches, and we just made a lot of calls.
- [03:24]
Alison Stewart
What were you looking for in the students when you were interviewing them? Because they were all great. Obviously they can speak, but, like, what was it that. The sort of the magic sauce in these five students?
- [03:35]
Jennifer Teixeira
Well, first and foremost, you know, I think it's. As filmmakers, it's really important to identify the partnership and what that partnership looks like. I think sometimes assumptions made that a participant knows exactly what they're diving into, and that's just not the case. So as much as we loved certain stories, we needed to make sure that the families were also on board and knew what was ahead. The. The schools, the coaches and the teachers and the school boards. So it was a much larger casting net than we would normally do to make sure that everybody felt really informed that we were as transparent as possible and that everyone felt really safe. So that was really the first and foremost. And then beyond that, we wanted to make sure all their stories complemented one another. We knew that it could get really repetitive just with this idea of speaking. And so what made them all incredibly unique to kind of tell the story. So I think that that's why our casting process was as long and arduous as it was almost six months, I want to say. And also, we cast five thinking that maybe we would follow three. And then the five were so good. All five made it.
- [04:46]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. It's interesting because they differ by race, by their geography, by neurodiversity, by family background. Why do you think the diversity of your subjects allows people to appreciate speech and debate and the original oratory category?
- [05:05]
Guy Mossman
Well, first of all, this culture, this subculture, if you will, I liken it to, like, the X Games of, like, academic competition. They see, I lost my train of thought.
- [05:25]
Alison Stewart
Diversity. We're talking about the diversity of the group.
- [05:29]
Guy Mossman
Excuse me, I was coughing. Press the cough button. So, yes, this world. One of the first things that drew me to it that I noticed was how inclusive it is. It's very. It attracts students from every corner of a school. And I think that's because actual physical sports are actually hard to compete in for a lot of people. I mean, not everyone is built to Go and play sports, or maybe you want to do that, but you also want to. You want to be competitive, but there's not that opportunity. So the kids are extremely competitive as well. And you just have this incredible diversity of students. It makes it. Like Jen said, it's an embarrassment of riches. I mean, you have. It's really hard to choose. Even five kids doesn't fully cover the gamut.
- [06:32]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Following up on what you're saying, Jen, how does speech and debate. How is an outlet for students outside of sort of the general idea of going to high school, going to practice, going to the game? There's something different about it.
- [06:50]
Jennifer Teixeira
Yeah, I think it's. Well, first of all, I kind of want to quote one of our coaches, Mylar. Mylar Wu. But one thing that I remember we were talking about this this morning was she was talking about how one of the reasons she loves speech and debate so much and theater, too, is like, there's this even playing field that you start with, and to the point that everyone can do it if they are given the opportunity. And so that's one thing we really wanted to. That's our impact campaign, is to provide this for anyone who might want to do it. And I think that that leads to the diversity. I think that our kids were. I mean, like you said, you see kids from every race, from every, you know, LGBTQ neurodivergent. And so it just is a. The one thing that we kept going back to is this idea of it's a place where they're allowed to disagree with one another, but ultimately can respect one another because they know how they got there. And that's one of the first lines in the film that we just love so much. It's like, I may not agree with what they're saying, but I respect how they got there. And that's just something we don't do anymore. And so I think just that. That that's how it differs, I think, from just everything else that's going on in the world right now.
- [08:11]
Alison Stewart
I'm speaking to co directors Jennifer Teixeira and Guy Mossman. They are the directors of Speech, which follows five high school students competing in the original oratory category of speech and Debate. The film opens in New York theaters today. In the film, we see that they have very special relationship between the coach and the students, and the coaches sometimes have to be really honest with them about the work they're doing, have difficult conversations with them when they mess up. How do the coaches go about trying to get the students to deliver the Best speech but also being aware that they are students.
- [08:51]
Guy Mossman
I think that the best coaches are really trying to pull, are trying to guide the student to be as authentic as they can. That's what I've noticed. I think they're patient, they take the time to talk to them and get to know them. We were talking about this this morning and these are spaces on campus where, on either college or high school or middle school now where students can engage in conversations that aren't that really traverse all of the different sort of classroom curriculums that they are. And so in that way they can get into material that is personal and they can try to tie it into their own lives. And so the coaches, their job is to help guide them through that sort of inquiry. And it's very Socratic and it's all about helping to develop a sense of a self awareness and empathy in the student. So yeah, but it's, it's impressive with the coaches. I think certainly like that was one of the things that excited me most about this project when I learned about this world was where the students, I.
- [10:07]
Alison Stewart
Mean the coaches, what is, where does anxiety fill in and fill fit into this equation? Because on one hand they're going up against each other, but on the other hand it's a chance for them to speak from their heart. I'm curious what you felt about watching these kids go through this situation. Is it anxiety ridden? Is it anxiety inducing?
- [10:30]
Jennifer Teixeira
I mean for me it was no, I was a mess. I was an absolute mess. I was hiding in the bathrooms. I mean, and they become your own children, right? And I love them all so deeply and fiercely, but I couldn't believe the amount of focus. And I think that's something else that you take with you from this sport is just this way to self regulate this. The reminder to breathe and to get into a situation like that I'm still working on in my mid-40s. Right. And they're so poised and then there's this sportsmanship among them. You know, we were asked a question earlier today was like, was there any rivalry? And like I just saw love and support and appreciation and respect. And so I know there's nerves because it's, it's, I mean I again, it is the most intensive like these, these tournaments last five days and they give the speech anywhere from depending on how far they go up to like 15 times. You know, it's just again and again and again and they're up at 6 in the morning. But the way they all handle it, you know, we were constantly reminding Our film team, you know, like that they're 17, they're 16, and they be like, I keep forgetting, I keep forgetting. And I think that that is not saying that we want them to be adults, but what a beautiful way to enter adulthood.
- [11:50]
Guy Mossman
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we had to take that into account in our approach, in the way we filmed this. I mean, we had a lot of aspirations in terms of, you know, cinematography. I'm a director of photography, so obviously it's easy to get carried away. And so I think we had to figure that out. And I think it took a little time for us to do that. And we wanted to be up close physically and capture the students lives and get to know them with a camera up close. So it's a cinema verite technique and that way you feel audiences feel close to them and it's just more intimate on screen. But at the same time, we need to be really sensitive to what they were going through emotionally. So. So there's a variety of different, you know, we had to pull back a lot and we ended up shooting a lot of sort of tableau shots and wides. And I think it really helped the film, but it definitely gave them the space they needed to.
- [12:53]
Alison Stewart
All right, we're gonna switch gears after the break. Where you guys are sitting are going to be two of the students who were involved in the movie Speak. We set up chairs for you guys in the corner if you want to pitch in. And we'll be right back after a break.
- [13:06]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Awesome.
- [13:16]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're discussing a new documentary called Speak. It follows five high school students competing in the original oratory category of speech and debate. It opens in New York theaters today. We've been speaking to the film's co directors, but now we have two students who are the subject of the documentary, both of whom have a legendary reputation among speech and debate teams across the country. First is Esther. I'm gonna get it ready. Oya Tanje.
- [13:48]
Jennifer Teixeira
Yay.
- [13:49]
Esther Oya Tanje
Yes.
- [13:51]
Alison Stewart
We watched her when she was in high school. She was a multiple winner from national events and now she's at college at Emory. Hi, Esther. Hi. And we also have Mufaz Muham Ali, another multi time finalist of original Oratory. She's also now in college at Northwestern and has over 3 million followers on TikTok.
- [14:07]
Esther Oya Tanje
We'll talk about that in a minute.
- [14:08]
Alison Stewart
Hi, Mafaz. Hi.
- [14:09]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Thanks for having us.
- [14:10]
Alison Stewart
Esther, how did you get involved in original oratory?
- [14:13]
Esther Oya Tanje
It's actually really funny. Well, like how I Got involved in speech and debate is I saw some girl, like, giving the commencement speech at my brother's graduation, and I was like, I want to be just like her. So I told my family, I'm going to do exactly what she did. And she did informative speaking, which was my first event. And then my sophomore year, we were just looking through topics, and on my team, we let our topics decide our event. And my topic my sophomore year was that if we love this country, we should criticize it. That's inherently persuasive.
- [14:41]
Alison Stewart
Wow, that's prescient.
- [14:45]
Esther Oya Tanje
It's inherently persuasive. So I found myself in original oratory, and it just seemed like my vibe, and I continued with it.
- [14:51]
Alison Stewart
How about for you, mufas?
- [14:53]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Yeah. So I joined because my friend Lucinda told me to, and she said that you should do it because you do TikTok and you are filming all these comedy videos. So I originally started in humorous interpretation, which is where you play a bunch of different characters and you cut a movie into 10 minutes. So that's where my origin was. And then my coach, Dr. Voss, saw me give a little intro on the stage for humorous interpretation. And he was like, that was basically a mini oratory. You should do oratory. And I told him, there's no way I'm going to be serious for 10 minutes. But then I gave it a try, and I loved it.
- [15:27]
Alison Stewart
What is it that you like about original oratory, Esther?
- [15:30]
Esther Oya Tanje
I think the ability to advocate for myself and other groups. I think many of my oratories, if not all of them, never really, like, advocated for myself personally. I really like the ability to share other people's stories and give them the platform they never had before. So, like, it's a privilege to me to be able to share other people's stories. And, like, advocacy just runs, like, deep in my family's blood. And I just really appreciated that this was an outlet I had to make tangible change.
- [15:55]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Your father's a pastor. You're from Miami originally. Miami, yes, from Florida. Your parents are from Nigeria. Your dad's a pastor. How do you think that prepared you?
- [16:06]
Esther Oya Tanje
Yeah, I think when I just love my family, and I think the values that they raised me on really helped shape the person I am. Things like justice, equality, love, fairness, like, seem natural, if not, like, common sense to me. So just, like, viewing the world through that lens helped me to identify places where we simply could just improve as American society. And knowing, like, kind of like my sophomore year of speech, like, because I love this country, because, like, I Love the society. And because, like, I'm gonna have a family one day, and I hope, like, there's other people who are gonna be living in the society with us. Are there ways that we can advocate and make it better?
- [16:39]
Alison Stewart
Mafaj, you grew up in Apple Valley, Minnesota, and we learned from the film that you and your sister are really close. How helpful has she been in this process?
- [16:50]
Mafaz Muham Ali
She is my best friend. She's always there for me. She would always help me memorize my speeches, film my tiktoks. She was in the film. You can see her helping me in Bath and Body Works.
- [16:59]
Alison Stewart
Run around and film the video.
- [17:01]
Mafaz Muham Ali
And she's so patient with me. Whenever I'm like, oh, I didn't like that one. She's always so kind. I love her to death. She's my favorite.
- [17:08]
Alison Stewart
For both of you, think about this. What would you say is your weakness when delivering an original oratory? What has been a weakness? What is something that you've had to work on? Esther?
- [17:21]
Esther Oya Tanje
Probably just overthinking. I get really. In my head, I think the biggest thing for me as to why I do a prepared speaking event like oratory is because I get to memorize the speech. I get to take time. So I think anytime, like, it feels out of control or something shifts that I hadn't initially anticipated. It requires some work to get out of my head and be present in the moment. But it's been really helpful in just, like, how to develop as a person. And when I'm thrown in situations that seem unpredictable, I feel like I'm able to handle that now.
- [17:48]
Alison Stewart
How do you get stable?
- [17:49]
Esther Oya Tanje
How do I get stable? Ooh, that's a good question. I think remembering that when I'm giving a speech, it's not like I'm just saying words off a page, but honestly, having thoughtful and honest conversations with the audience. The audience isn't just people I get to speak at, but people I get to speak with. And that's kind of how I regain focus.
- [18:06]
Alison Stewart
How about for you? What's been difficult about it? What's been hard?
- [18:09]
Mafaz Muham Ali
A challenge in oratory, Obviously, I think the nerves. For me, nerves never really go away. You just get better at handling them. I think something my coach used to tell me all the time is that you're only nervous because you care. I care so much about what I'm saying, and I care so much that I want more people to hear it. So the nerves, I use them. I learned to manage them and use them to help me perform and give a speech that really Came from the heart.
- [18:34]
Alison Stewart
So Jennifer and Guy decide to make a documentary, and you two are chosen to be part of. Of the documentary. What was it like, Esther, to have cameras around quite often?
- [18:49]
Esther Oya Tanje
I think it was an adjustment at first only because my family and I were kind of introverted. Like, we like being out in the public but not being like the eye that everyone's looking at. So I think it got some getting used to. At least not at home. Like, they were very. It was very easy at home. Like, I'm in my own space, but in a competitive atmosphere like speech and debate. And at tournaments when you're already a little nervous and stressed to have cameras focused in on you, everyone's like, ooh, like, what's going on over there? Was nerve wracking at first, but it simply became normal. I was like, oh, hey, Guy. Hey, Jen. So it became normal.
- [19:22]
Alison Stewart
What was it like for you to have a camera crew following you around?
- [19:25]
Mafaz Muham Ali
I thought I was gonna be able to handle it perfectly. I was like, I'm on TikTok all the time. There's always cameras on my face. And then they came for the first time and I was like, wait, there's like, there's multiple cameras. Like, it's not just my phone. But I have to give props to you guys for welcoming, being so welcoming to us and meeting our family. Before you put the camera on us, it was super nice to get to know you guys. You pulled out the camera. I think that was one of the best things that made it super comfortable. But I agree with Esther. Like, at a tournament, it was. It was really. It was really nerve wracking at first because you're already competing and then you have another camera on you.
- [19:57]
Alison Stewart
Tell us a little bit about how you made it not feel normal, but less intrusive for these acts, for these young people.
- [20:08]
Jennifer Teixeira
I think that the key was, is making sure that they felt the. They had the agency to tell us to stop. And that was something we were very clear about. Like, you know, you just tell us and the cameras are down. And I mean, that was. I think that was. That created a sense of trust and a sense of, like, understanding between all of us. That I think was really, really important.
- [20:33]
Guy Mossman
We also had some tricks. Like during competition, we would set up our cameras and we would roll on everyone. So we were. We needed to be very careful not to tip off the judges.
- [20:46]
Alison Stewart
Oh, interesting.
- [20:47]
Guy Mossman
And created any sort of biases or other sorts of things that can come up. So we basically locked down our camera and had to stay in one place. And we filmed a lot.
- [20:59]
Alison Stewart
A lot.
- [21:01]
Guy Mossman
And learned a lot, too.
- [21:02]
Alison Stewart
Esther, what do you get out of what your coaches tell you about presentation, tell you about your speech, or when they tell you something that maybe you really don't want to hear?
- [21:13]
Esther Oya Tanje
Yeah. So I want to shout out my coach, Mr. Levesque. He is my favorite person. And honestly, just, like, became not just only a coach to me, but, like, truly a mentor and a friend. I think Mr. Levesque was really good at, you know, encouraging me and, like, where he saw my strengths and talents, but being willing to push me in places that, like, maybe felt uncomfortable. Like, I'm really bad at jokes when giving a speech. Like, really? Because I want to be so prepared. It can kind of sound rehearsed, which is not great for a joke when you want it to sound conversational. So he would make me do the corniest, funniest jokes in random places to the other debate kids, which was trying to shake off the nerves I had. So I appreciated him seeing where I could be and being willing to push me but not too hard in those places.
- [21:57]
Alison Stewart
How about for you, Mafaz, Dr. Voss?
- [22:00]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Also have to shout out. Him is just an incredible. He's one of my favorite white guys in the world. He's cares so much about his students to the point where I'm like, are you a black hijabi immigrant woman? Like, will you care so much about what you're saying and how you get these people to, you know, share something that means so much to them that you really don't relate to? So I think he's just so incredible in that way in helping me bring out the absolute best that I have.
- [22:30]
Alison Stewart
It's highly competitive, requires a lot of preparation. The team is important. And there are chants, apparently. Let's listen to an example from one from the film Speak Mfaj. You might recognize this one.
- [22:44]
Esther Oya Tanje
Make some noise.
- [22:49]
Guy Mossman
Let's wake up our faces.
- [22:51]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah. I slit a sheet, a sheet I slit. And on that slit a sheet I sit.
- [22:59]
Esther Oya Tanje
Who's gonna win?
- [23:00]
Alison Stewart
We're gonna win.
- [23:01]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Who, us?
- [23:01]
Alison Stewart
Who us?
- [23:02]
Esther Oya Tanje
Louder.
- [23:03]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Apple Valley.
- [23:05]
Alison Stewart
A, P, A P, L, E. P.
- [23:07]
Mafaz Muham Ali
L, E, V.
- [23:11]
Alison Stewart
You can spell your hometown.
- [23:16]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Oh, my gosh.
- [23:17]
Alison Stewart
Why are exercises like that? Why are they important?
- [23:21]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Yeah, speech is like. It's a sport. You have to warm up your voice. You have to warm up your body. You have to warm up your energy. You can. These rounds start so early in the morning. It's 6aM and you do not want to wake up and give a 10 minute speech at 6am but you have to wake up your body and get all this energy around you and your team. So as a captain, it was really important to help. We have a really big team to help all these people feel connected and feel like they're part of one unit.
- [23:49]
Alison Stewart
In the film, we get to go to the nationals. One subject calls it the nerd Super Bowl. Esther, how would you describe the energy at the nationals?
- [24:00]
Esther Oya Tanje
Wow. It is, I think over 4,000 schools, thousands of students. It is so cool because you get to meet so many different people, both domestically and internationally. There's one team, it's called Taipei American, so it's in Taiwan. So like getting to meet people that you would have never met before. And I think the energy, like, of course it's competitive, but there's really just a sense of community. Getting to see people you've seen at other tournaments or I have friends that live across the country that I only ever get to see during speech tournaments. So we're there together for an entire week. But truly, it's some of like the best moments of my entire life and moments I hold so dearly. And one of my favorite moments of all time is actually doing warm ups for the last time with my team as a senior. And I have the video of that and something I remember forever.
- [24:43]
Alison Stewart
Now that you're both in college, what's been the impact of being in speech and debate?
- [24:51]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Speech and debate gives you so many skills that you will use for the rest of your life. I use the skills every single day. Whether it's I'm giving a presentation in class, I'm talking to a teacher, talking to a professor that I would have never had if I never did speech and debate. I'm able to advocate for myself and, you know, communicate my ideas beautifully. And I think that's one of the best skills you could ever learn. And you really need to, you really need to understand that speech and debate is like, it creates leaders. All these people that compete in them, they, they go on to change the world. So it's such an incredible activity that I'm forever grateful for.
- [25:27]
Alison Stewart
How about for you?
- [25:28]
Esther Oya Tanje
Yeah, I think just, I echo everything Mafa said, especially with advocacy, especially with the climate that we're in right now and finding myself being a student leader on campus. And how do I communicate with like deans and upper level administration in a way that I don't feel intimidated, but I'm able to present information in a way that can be persuasive but also reach like common ground between two different parties. So it's been very interesting. But I feel like speech and debate really prepared me for just life.
- [25:53]
Alison Stewart
Okay, give me your shout out for TikTok real quick. 15 seconds. Oh no.
- [25:58]
Mafaz Muham Ali
Hijabi.
- [26:02]
Alison Stewart
You should check her out. The name of the film is Speak. I have been speaking with Jennifer, Guy, Esther and Mafaz. Thank you so much for coming into the studio. Where is it playing in New York?
- [26:13]
Jennifer Teixeira
DCTV for the next week.
- [26:15]
Alison Stewart
That sounds good.
- [26:17]
Jennifer Teixeira
DCTV Firehouse.
- [26:18]
Alison Stewart
I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next.
- [26:23]
Jennifer Teixeira
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- [26:27]
Alison Stewart
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- [26:55]
Guy Mossman
This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.