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David Fuerst
This is all of It. I'm David Fuerst in for Alison Stewart. When we think of the American Revolution, we often think of Philadelphia or Boston or Yorktown. But if you want to know where the war was actually fought, look to New Jersey. Caught between the patriot capital of Philadelphia and the British held New York, New Jersey became the war's battlefield. It was a hotbed of espionage. Its population was deeply divided. It was where more military engagements took place than in any other colony. And it was the place in 1776 where Washington famously crossed the Delaware and went on to secure a victory at the Battle of Trenton, a major turning point for the Continental Army. Because of that history, New Jersey is known as the crossroads of the American Revolution. The state has spent years getting ready for the country's 250th anniversary and 20 to tell the story of New Jersey's role in the country's founding. And here now to talk about it is Sarah Cureton, the executive director of the New Jersey State Historical Commission, and Mark Texel, the administrator of state historic sites at the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. Sarah, Mark, welcome to all of it. And make sure that I'm saying your names perfectly correctly.
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Sarah Cureton
Sounds great. Thank you so much. We're delighted to be here.
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Mark Texel
Yeah, David, that's great. It's great to be here. Thank you.
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David Fuerst
So New Jersey, it's known as the crossroads of the American Revolution. Sarah, can you talk about that? Why did it play such a critical role?
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Sarah Cureton
Well, just as in real estate, it's all about location, location, location. So as you in your wonderful introduction. Excuse me. As you pointed out, we are located still between these two important urban centers, New York City and Philadelphia. And so as the war developed and raged on, New Jersey was in the middle of it. Over and over and over again. So one of the things that I think has been so interesting to me as we prepared for this anniversary is thinking about some of those places that a lot of folks know a lot about with the Revolution. So Boston, the Boston Massacre, the Boston Tea Party, for example. We know about Philadelphia, we know maybe about Yorktown, but New York, New Jersey is really in the thick of it for the duration of a very long war. So whereas up in Massachusetts, our good friends up in Massachusetts, a lot of their major anniversaries have actually already passed in terms of the American Revolution, but it's just getting started down here in New Jersey.
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David Fuerst
Okay, listeners, if you want to join this conversation, we'd love to welcome you to this as well. If you have a question about New Jersey Revolutionary War history or maybe you want to shout out a favorite historic site in the state, you can call and share or text us 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. And Mark, let's talk about some of the key sites that people can visit. And we can start with a really big one, Washington Crossing State Park. A lot of us know that famous painting of Washington crossing the Delaware. But can you talk about the significance of that event?
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Mark Texel
It's one of the most significant events in world history and of course, in American history, the quick prelude to what happened there was, as we know, the Continental army was being beaten and retreating all the way from Brooklyn, across Manhattan, across the Hudson river, into what's today Bergen county, and then began a pretty speedy retreat to keep the army together. And as that as the losses mounted, the army began to literally dwindle away as enlistments expired and men went back to their farms and the whole patriotic fervor suddenly began to be in question. And the British army was intent to try to end the rebellion quickly, but also was looking to not punish its colonial subjects, so to speak, because in many cases, these men had fought together 20 years ago and therein opened the door. So by the time Washington has got his army across the Delaware in early December of 1776, many of the people in New Jersey had, for better or for worse, signed an allegiance oath saying that they would still be loyal to King George III in the hopes that would save their property, their prosperity. Then things began to go a little sideways for the British as what happens in war, Their allies, the Hessians from that part of Europe and themselves, they began to plunder the countryside. A lot of atrocities happened. And suddenly the militias in New Jersey began to realize this is a war of survival, not just about independence, but survival. So Washington sees a chance to strike back at the British, because the British occupied the entire state. They had a dozen cantonments stretching all the way from what's today Perth Amboy and even north into the Hoboken area, all the way to Trenton. And they split an army that on paper could have beaten Washington any time into digestible units. And the most easily a digestible one was the garrison in Trenton, right on the Delaware River. And Washington knew that if he could strike back with a larger force, he might be able to stop this at a critical moment, because come January 1st of 1777, the enlistments would be up and what was left of his army, which at that point was probably less than 3,000 men.
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David Fuerst
So time was of the essence.
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Mark Texel
Time was of the essence. So when he realizes, we can do this. And at that point, the British had really settled in. They thought the war was just about done. They were waiting for the Delaware to freeze solid, cross the river, take Philadelphia, and possibly end the war and put an end to the rebellion. So Washington's brilliant counter stroke on December 25 into 26 was a masterpiece. A lot of pieces had to happen. A lot of secrecy took place, and they were able to launch a surprise attack. But to get there, they have to cross the Delaware. So very complicated strategy. It had three different wings. Only one makes it across. The other two were thwarted by ice and by nor' easter and just bad luck. And so Washington, when he does get across with about 2,400 men and most importantly, 18 cannon and horses to overwhelm the Hessians in Trenton. He's on the road at about, oh, three or four in the morning. He was about four hours behind schedule. And it's a raging nor' easter that is at their back as they attacked the Hessians. So the crossing of the Delaware at that point has been remembered as this heroic moment. And we see it in American culture over the next 250 years. We see it in paintings. We see it in commercials. Today, we see it all over the place.
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David Fuerst
We see it in commercials. We see it everywhere.
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Mark Texel
And literally, it's a great American moment. It's not just one crossing. He crosses back the next day with 900 German prisoners. And then he crosses again a couple days later as part of the Ten Crucial Days campaign. So he's crossing back and forth, and at that park, we, you know, it's a national historic landmark that spans the river. It includes, on the Pennsylvania side, the Pennsylvania Washington Crossing Historic Site. And in New Jersey, Washington Crossing State park, and both of these sites together are about to celebrate the beginning of the 10 crucial days. It's not, as Sarah mentioned, though, it's not coming yet for another five or six months. Right.
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David Fuerst
However, you're talking about the exact anniversary of that event is not coming until December.
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Mark Texel
Yes. Doesn't come until December. But that said, we are excited because I know we spent a lot of time preparing for this moment at Washington Crossing State park with millions of dollars of investment from state and federal grants and our nonprofit partners. And later this year, we will open a beautiful new museum and visitor center on the New Jersey side that celebrates these events and also explores how complicated the stories were at that time. So that's a very thanks for mentioning Washington Crossing State Park. It's one of our gems. But there are many, many others throughout New Jersey that people can visit to learn about our Revolutionary War history.
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David Fuerst
Yes, Sarah, how else can I experience that site? Can I hop in my kayak and recreate the crossing? What can I physically do there right now?
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Sarah Cureton
Well, it's a beautiful park, so it's open to hiking. And there is more than just the new museum. And by the way, Mark didn't mention, kind of a fun fact is that the new visitor center at Washington Crossing is actually replacing one that was put in during the bicentennial. And it was supposed to be temporary 50 years ago. So finally, 50 years later, we now have a beautiful new visitor center to enjoy there. So there's lots of lots to do there at this beautiful park. But as Mark mentioned, there are many other sites in New Jersey related to the American Revolution. In fact, nearly 100 sites in New Jersey visitors can go to or experience in different ways that are actively interpreted and relate to the American Revolution. So there's Washington Crossing is incredibly important, but it's just the beginning.
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David Fuerst
It's just the beginning. And I think we have a caller that's going to shout out another favorite historic site in New Jersey. If you want to join this conversation, 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC Ruth from Summit, New Jersey.
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Mark Texel
Welcome.
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Callers (Ruth, Elmo, Vincent)
You got it. Thank you. One of the favorite places when my children were little and I really loved is Jockey Hollow State park, where you can see the incredibly unpleasant place where Washington troops spent an incredibly horrible cold winter.
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David Fuerst
Oh, my goodness.
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Callers (Ruth, Elmo, Vincent)
So I don't recommend going there in winter with the snow as they did, but go there when it's beautiful right now, Ruth.
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David Fuerst
Yes, it will not be snowing if you go this weekend, since we're gonna be up around the hundred Mark. But. Oh, a great historic site that Ruth just brought up right now. Can we talk about Morristown, New Jersey? Who wants to take this one on? A lot of people know about Valley Forge. Right. Pennsylvania, where General George Washington, the Continental army, took refuge during the winter of 1777 through 1778. But that very tough environment that Ruth just brought up. Morristown, much more challenging for the Continental Army. Right?
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Sarah Cureton
Absolutely. And I'm just going to start. But I want Mark to chime in as well. I want to start by noting two really special things about Morristown that folks might not realize. So Washington's cross.
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David Fuerst
That's where that Jockey Hollow park is exactly that we're talking about? Yeah.
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Sarah Cureton
There are two. Two different portions of that park. It's a national park. And Washington's headquarters was the first national historical park to come into the National Park Service. So I think a lot of people don't realize that. That just highlights how important that site was during the revolution. And Washington and his troops spent two winters up there. So while folks know a lot about Valley Forge, there's actually even more stories to tell about Washington's headquarters.
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David Fuerst
And we're talking about brutal winters here.
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Mark Texel
Yes. It was the coldest winter on record in the 18th century. Imagine snow drifts that were 5 to 10ft. The Hudson River. Imagine this today at 105 heat index as we're baking here at Rutgers in Manhattan. Froze solid. You could take a sleigh across from Manhattan and Staten island to the New Jersey side. Frozen solid. 20 nor', Easter, 20 blizzards. So the troops are sequestered in log huts. They were hutting up at that point, surviving. They were starving to death, literally. The foodstuffs weren't coming in. They were pleading for supplies from the Continental Congress, and very little was coming in. But somehow they survived. There were some people that did perish because of that, but the army stayed intact during that winter of 1779 and 1780 and are able to come out stronger because of that. So when you think about Valley Forge was. Was a challenging winter. Morristown was monumentally more difficult, harder. And it really was the winter that the army could have collapsed at that point. And the war is becoming complicated. We have a whole Southern campaign happening. But this is. The entire northern wing of the Continental army is mostly at Jockey Hollow, which is a few miles west of Morristown. It is a national park. You can. Wonderful place to visit today. Trails, hiking, living history that they do throughout the year. And I highly recommend people go there, as Sarah mentioned, in Morristown there were is the other piece, Washington, of course, during this time he's not there in a hut. He's. He's at the Ford Mansion. And I give our general credit. He always picks some of the most beautiful 18th century houses to live in throughout the war. In Somerville we have one called the Wallace House where he stayed the year before. And in New York State he stays. He picks very nice houses and people accommodate him because he has this whole troupe with him, supporting cast of aides and his wife comes to visit many times and stays with him during the winter. So that was a difficult winter.
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David Fuerst
But and I want to get more of a sense of that. We're talking about the winter in Morristown, in Washington's encampment. I want to get more of a sense of where we should go and how we should visit that today. In just a moment, but we have to take a quick break. We're speaking with Mark Texel, the administrator of state historic sites for the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection and Sarah Cureton, the executive director of the New Jersey State Historical Commission about New Jersey and the Revolutionary War. We'll have more coming up in just a moment here on all of it. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm David Fuerst. And for Alison Stewart, we're talking about New Jersey and the Revolutionary War with Sarah Cureton and Mark Texel. Sarah is the executive director of the New Jersey State Historical Commission. Mark, the administrator of the state historic sites for the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. And we were just talking about Washington encampment in Morristown and what that was like. If we want to get a sense for that. Sarah, where should we go and what should we do?
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Sarah Cureton
Oh, my goodness. Well, as I mentioned, there are actually two locations up in Morristown for that park. So there's one right in town, which is where Washington's headquarters is. And there's in addition to the historic building there, the beautiful historic building where Washington actually stayed, there's also a museum which has some terrific exhibits. And then a few miles, just up the road is Jockey Hollow where the troops were encamped. Another, another kind of fascinating thing about that is really that's where the first military academy for the United States is started there because they established a place and I think they were training artillerymen, were they not, Mark, up there? And that's kind of the, you know, the ancestor, if you will, of West Point and our modern day military academies. But Mark and I also Wanted, if we wanted to make sure we noted that New Jersey was a very diverse place. We know it's a diverse place now. We have people from all over the world who've settled in New Jersey. But it was also very diverse during the American Revolution and before too. So one of the real exciting aspects of the projects we've undertaken here in New Jersey is to tell some of those stories that people are perhaps less familiar with. And one of them relates to the crossing, Washington's Crossing that we just mentioned when there were African American troops involved. Maybe Mark can pick up the story just for a second.
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Mark Texel
Yes, I mean, there were several units that were at that time integrated with what was. Was very unusual. People of color, both free and enslaved, were in the ranks as well as indigenous people. The first Rhode island unit was there at that time. More of an integrated unit later become all African American. And then we have the Marbleheaders who helped row, who also took part in helping row the army across the river. So it wasn't just the army, but you had to have people that knew how to handle big boats on a dangerous river. And that was like the i95 of its day in terms of commerce. And they're the same ones that helped the army escape from Brooklyn. They were trapped against the east river and they were able to get them back over to Manhattan. That same unit winds up helping, although as we history always has changed. We found new research just in the last year that says that it wasn't just the Marbleheaders. It was a lot of New Jersey rivermen and men of color in the Pennsylvania Navy had a role in helping mobilize all these boats to get the army across the river. But as Sarah mentioned, in addition to that, within the ranks, about 20% of all the people that were in the army throughout the war were people of color. And we say that thinking about that. But we also realize that four times as many fought on the British side as well. So it's a very complicated story which we tell at sites like Princeton Battlefield where we have a Quaker family caught in the crossfire of a pop up battle. Suddenly there's a battle raging on your farm, had no, you know, wasn't planned. And you have an enslaved woman there with a Quaker family at that time treating both the British and the Continental wounded, who a year later was then manumitted because Quakers were very divided over the issue of slavery. So those are the kind of stories that we brought to life.
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David Fuerst
Lots of so many fascinating stories to get to. And we're running out of time. I want to try to get to a couple of calls. If you have a question about New Jersey history with the revolutionary war or a favorite place you want to shout out, let's welcome Elmo in Bergen County. Welcome to all of it.
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Callers (Ruth, Elmo, Vincent)
Well, thanks for having me. I lived up the street from a very interesting place called von Steuben house. It's in river edge, New Jersey, and it's known for the bridge that was there, and they said it was the bridge that saved the nation. It's very cold winter. And after losing the battle of white plains, Washington came across the Hudson river with his army and artillery, and they went up a place called close to dock road and came down all the way down through Englewood, and they wound up at von Steuben house and they burned the bridge down to stop the British from advancing. But the other part of the story about this is I used to live up the street, and it's one of the places that had the last slave in Bergen county. And that was at von Steuben house. And that was general von Steuben's house. And there are people living in the house right now. A historian and his family. He raises his family there. They're very, very lovely people. And it's. I would say it's not. I don't think it's more than four or five miles from Manhattan. And the other interesting thing about it is.
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David Fuerst
Okay, Elmo, thank you so much for your call. I want to have Sarah and Mark respond because I saw as soon as you mentioned that location, they both were a lot of recognition on your faces.
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Mark Texel
Yeah, thank you so much, Elmo. Yeah. Historic new bridge landing includes the Steuben house, which was called the Zabriskie house at the revolution. A Dutch owned house. And it was. It was a key bridge there as the army was retreating from Fort Lee, that they fought a rear guard duty to hold the British off just long enough for Washington's army to be able to escape and start the retreat across the Jerseys. That's a great site. We're actually investing money in that now. We're doing improvements. There's a new visitor center that the Bergen county historical society has been fundraising for and building a great site to visit. Come, come visit. Bergen county has a rich revolutionary war history.
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David Fuerst
All right, that's on the way. And let's hear from Vincent in Warren, New Jersey. Welcome to all of it.
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Callers (Ruth, Elmo, Vincent)
Hey, Good afternoon. I would just like to know the importance of the Washington rock lookout point. I believe it's in either greenpoof or Watch on. Hmm.
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David Fuerst
The Washington Rock. Anyone know the answer to that one?
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Mark Texel
I do. So after the, you know, the. We get past the 10 crucial days period and then the British. There's a period where the British and the Continental arms are kind of watching each other. British on Staten island, they make forays into New Jersey, into the Short Hills area. There's several battles fought there. Washington Rock is sort of a high point on one of the Watchung. There's several ridges of rises that comprise the Watchong Washington Rock, the Watchong Mountain.
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David Fuerst
And this is where Greenbrook Township.
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Mark Texel
It's near Greenbrook Township. You can see out across the plains from there. And Washington used that as a lookout point, the army did, to be able to keep an eye on the British. It is a. It's a state owned park and I think we have an agreement with the county for managing that. So. Absolutely worth a visit to Washington Rock in Middlesex County, I believe.
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David Fuerst
Okay, well, if we. There's a lot going on this weekend. Where can we go very quickly to learn more about New Jersey's revolutionary history and about events happening this weekend? Website.
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Sarah Cureton
Oh, fantastic. And I think we've both got websites we can recommend to you. So we'll start with revnj.org that's R E V N J dot org. That is where RevolutionNJ, which is the state's official planning entity for celebrating and commemorating this anniversary. We have a calendar of events there. We've got our own programs, including a traveling exhibition, 5k runs, tavern talks and much more. So really encourage folks to go there. And Mark.
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Mark Texel
Yes. New Jersey State Parksandforests.org is our website and there's a history section. Click on historic sites. We have events happening tomorrow. We have a number of events happening at Princeton and Washcrossing on the fourth. There's fireworks of the Delaware river things happening the rest of the year. In fact, we've got over 50 historic sites that run the whole range of the 250 years of American history.
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David Fuerst
All right, well, there you go. Sarah Cureton and Mark Texel, the administrator of state historic sites in the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection, thank you both for joining us and thanks for all of this history.
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Sarah Cureton
Thank you so much.
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Mark Texel
Thanks very much, David.