All Of It: Episode Summary - "New Novel Explores the Inner Lives of Hollywood Power Agents"

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
• Description: ALL OF IT delves into culture and its consumers, engaging thinkers, doers, makers, and creators to explore the what and why of their work. The show celebrates diverse perspectives, fostering a community that reflects the vibrant cultural mosaic of New York City.

Episode Details:

• Title: New Novel Explores the Inner Lives of Hollywood Power Agents
• Release Date: April 24, 2025
• Guest: Elaine Goldsmith Thomas, author of the debut novel Climbing in Heels

Introduction

The episode begins with host Alison Stewart introducing the guest, Elaine Goldsmith Thomas, and her new novel, Climbing in Heels. Elaine, a former Senior Vice President at the William Morris Agency and ICM, shares her transition from a high-powered agent to a film producer, collaborating with notable figures like Jennifer Lopez on projects such as Hustlers and Made Manhattan.

Alison Stewart [00:36]:
"This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thanks for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here on today's Show."

Inspiration Behind Climbing in Heels

Elaine delves into the motivations for writing her novel, emphasizing the challenges women faced in the cutthroat entertainment industry of the 1980s.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [02:07]:
"Every generation is met with their own terrain. And the terrain in the '80s when I started as a secretary, you know, I like to say I was running the maze in a mousetrap where I wasn't the cheese that they wanted. So I had to figure out a different way in."

She highlights the perseverance required to overcome systemic barriers, transforming "no" into "yes" through resilience and adaptability.

Choosing Fiction Over Memoir

When questioned about opting for a novel instead of a memoir, Elaine explains her desire to weave together various stories and characters that reflect real experiences while maintaining creative freedom.

Alison Stewart [03:18]:
"Why did you decide to write a novel rather than a memoir? I would have read your memoir."

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [03:25]:
"I was able to turn left. I was able to combine all of these stories that I had heard and characters that I had imagined... It was really three women who started as secretaries, but it's really five women."

Character Development and Real-Life Influences

Elaine discusses how her personal experiences and observations informed the characters in her novel. She draws parallels between herself and the character Beanie, illustrating the thin line between fiction and reality.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [06:20]:
"Beanie never knew where she lived. She just knew it wasn't good enough. And she knew that image was more important than truth."

She also touches on the inclusion of real-life figures, such as Kevin Costner, and how these relationships influenced the narrative.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [07:03]:
"Kevin, if you hear this, you're in my book in the nicest way. No, because it's a work of fiction and I season it with people who were superstars at the time."

Themes: Power Dynamics and Feminism in Hollywood

The novel explores the intricate power dynamics within Hollywood agencies, focusing on the strategic maneuvers women employ to secure influential positions. Elaine emphasizes the interplay between mentorship and rivalry among female agents.

Alison Stewart [15:08]:
"That's Elaine Goldsmith Thomas reading from her book Climbing in Heels. Do we have a frenemy situation going on here with Ella and Beanie and Sheila?"

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [15:18]:
"You have a triad. You have a triangle where Sheila's gonna try to correct some mistakes she's made as these secretaries tried to rise. But she's gonna get in her own way as she does in her career."

Personal Reflections and Broader Implications

Elaine reflects on her journey, drawing connections between her past roles and her current endeavors as a writer and producer. She discusses the impact of the #MeToo movement on Hollywood and the enduring challenges women face in the industry.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [20:01]:
"The #MeToo movement is extraordinary. And it's not just changed Hollywood, it's changed the world."

She expresses hope that the movement leads to lasting positive changes without causing a backlash.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [20:24]:
"I hope the world doesn't overcorrect, because then it's like a boomerang effect. But that doesn't mean it's still not difficult."

Insights Gained Through Writing

Writing Climbing in Heels allowed Elaine to explore her multifaceted identity as both a writer and a producer. She emphasizes the importance of pursuing diverse passions and challenges societal expectations.

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [20:58]:
"What I learned was coming out, if you will, as a writer makes me a better producer. It doesn't lessen me."

She discusses the challenges of balancing multiple roles and the vulnerability that comes with putting her personal experiences into fiction.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the conversation by highlighting the strengths of Elaine's novel and her ability to portray complex female characters navigating the male-dominated Hollywood landscape.

Alison Stewart [23:14]:
"Her book is called Climbing in Heels. Thanks for coming to the studio."

Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [23:19]:
"Thanks, Alison. Really nice seeing you."

The episode concludes with closing remarks and a brief mention of upcoming content, maintaining the focus on the cultural and societal themes explored throughout the discussion.

Key Takeaways

• Resilience and Adaptability: The novel underscores the importance of perseverance and creative problem-solving for women breaking into and ascending within the entertainment industry.

• Mentorship and Rivalry: The dynamic between Sheila and her protégés Ella and Beanie illustrates the complex relationships women navigate in professional settings.

• Impact of #MeToo: Elaine acknowledges the transformative effects of the #MeToo movement while recognizing that underlying challenges persist.

• Multifaceted Identities: Elaine's journey as an agent, producer, and writer exemplifies the ability to embody multiple roles successfully, inspiring others to pursue diverse interests.

Notable Quotes

• Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [02:07]:
  "Every generation is met with their own terrain. And the terrain in the '80s when I started as a secretary... I had to figure out a different way in."

• Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [03:25]:
  "I was able to combine all of these stories that I had heard and characters that I had imagined."

• Elaine Goldsmith Thomas [20:58]:
  "What I learned was coming out, if you will, as a writer makes me a better producer. It doesn't lessen me."

This summary captures the essence of the April 24, 2025 episode of All Of It, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the discussion between Alison Stewart and Elaine Goldsmith Thomas about her novel Climbing in Heels and the broader cultural contexts it engages with.