Podcast Summary: "New York Artist David Wojnarowicz Saw Himself in Arthur Rimbaud"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Antonio Sergio Bessa (Curator)
Date: October 22, 2025
Duration of summarized content: Approximately 00:09 – 15:02

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the artist David Wojnarowicz, focusing on his photographic series featuring friends disguised as the poet Arthur Rimbaud in various New York locales. Host Alison Stewart speaks with curator Antonio Sergio Bessa about the new exhibition "David Arthur Rimbaud in New York" at the Leslie Lohman Gallery and its accompanying hardcover book. The conversation dives into Wojnarowicz's multifaceted artistry, his connection to Rimbaud, and how his work captured marginalized New York life in the late 1970s.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

David Wojnarowicz's Artistic Mediums and Photography

• Wojnarowicz worked across multiple forms: painting, performance art, music, sculpture, and photography.
• Photography’s specific role:
  • Antonio describes the Rimbaud photograph series as a “bridge” from Wojnarowicz’s writing to visual arts.
  • The series predates Wojnarowicz’s friendship with influential photographer Peter Hujar.
• Early photographic evidence:
  • Exhibition includes early photographs from Wojnarowicz’s visit to France, showing his innate talent for the medium (01:33–02:35).

Quote:

"What photography represents in his work...in this particular of the Rimbaud series, he represents a bridge that takes him from his writing work into the visual arts."
— Antonio Sergio Bessa (01:33)

Eye for the Margins and Self-Reflection

• Subjects of his lens:
  • Wojnarowicz was drawn to outsiders, photographing street kids in France and focusing on neglected areas of New York.
  • Through his camera he both documented and reflected on his own experiences as a street kid.
• Narrative parallel:
  • The series depicts "sites of New York that mainstream New Yorkers wouldn't go to," emphasizing the city’s gritty reality (02:42–04:02).

Quote:

"He had an eye for the forgotten, for the underdog...he's looking at the other, but he's also looking at himself."
— Antonio Sergio Bessa (02:42)

Wojnarowicz Among His Peers

• Non-competitive approach:
  • Wojnarowicz didn’t try to “compete” with other photographers; his work was more autobiographical, a way to memorialize his own life.
• Inspirations:
  • Admired photographers like Robert Frank and Danny Lyon, who captured America’s less glamorous aspects (04:10–05:19).

The Rimbaud Fascination and Punk Connection

• Wojnarowicz’s interest in Rimbaud:
  • Emerged in the early 1970s, paralleling the punk scene’s similar fascination.
  • Patti Smith and others in New York’s punk milieu idolized Rimbaud, reflecting a broader cultural moment (05:37–07:20).
• Personal copy:
  • Wojnarowicz’s own battered edition of “Illuminations” is displayed in the exhibition.

Quote:

"So Humbo was currency in the 70s. I think it had been forgotten for a long, long time."
— Antonio Sergio Bessa (06:17)

New York as American Landscape; Gathering Voices

• Ambition for universality:
  • Wojnarowicz saw himself as striving to be an “American voice,” not limited to New York’s geography.
• Literary works:
  • Early published monologues ("Voices from a Distance") arose from cross-country travel; he transcribed stories from people he met in diners and cafes, providing insight into post-Vietnam, pre-Reagan American malaise (07:36–09:02).
• Philosophical link with Rimbaud:
  • Bessa cites Rimbaud’s “I is the other” to explain Wojnarowicz’s worldview—a self formed through the stories and experiences of others (09:07–10:07).

Quote:

"He had this really generous kind of view of life. I think even though his life was so hard, he was always willing to share and to be there."
— Antonio Sergio Bessa (09:07)

Rimbaud Mask and Urban Parallel

• France trip:
  • Wojnarowicz visited his sister in France in 1978, which may have influenced the Rimbaud series.
  • Photos include friends in the Rimbaud mask even in Paris (10:09–10:40).
• The mask’s power and humor:
  • The Rimbaud mask features in varied, sometimes jarring NYC settings—from Coney Island to the piers—drawing a parallel between Rimbaud’s Paris and Wojnarowicz’s New York.
• Socioeconomic context:
  • Both cities were undergoing transformation and turmoil during their lifetimes, which the photos subtly reference (11:06–11:51).

The Friends Behind the Mask

• Known participants:
  • Brian Butterick (bandmate of Wojnarowicz’s Three Teens Kill Four);
  • John Howe (old friend);
  • Jean Pierre (Wojnarowicz’s former partner from France).
• Noteworthy detail:
  • Wojnarowicz was likely never the one behind the mask himself (12:18–13:19).

Takeaways from the Photographs

• Wojnarowicz’s genius:
  • The exhibition aims to showcase not just Wojnarowicz the activist, but his inventive, genre-defying artistry.
  • Series highlighted as one of the era’s most important works, bridging literature and visual art (13:28–14:48).

Quote:

"The monologues that I just mentioned and this series of photographs just shows what a formidable artist he was. Really ahead of the curve."
— Antonio Sergio Bessa (13:28)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On photography’s bridge in Wojnarowicz’s career:
  "He represents a bridge that takes him from his writing work into the visual arts." (01:33)
• On seeing himself in the margins:
  "He's looking at the other, but he's also looking at himself because he himself was a street kid." (02:42)
• On punk’s Rimbaud obsession:
  "Humboldt has been a model for this generation for quite some time." (06:17)
• On empathy’s creative power:
  "My subjectivity is made up from everyone around me." (09:07)
• On artistic ambition:
  "He wanted to be an American voice, an American author." (07:36)
• On the importance of the Rimbaud photo series:
  "I think this series is one of the most important works of the 1970s." (14:18)

Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• Introduction & exhibition overview: 00:09 – 01:12
• Photography’s role and influences: 01:12 – 04:10
• The Rimbaud connection and punk context: 05:19 – 07:20
• Wojnarowicz as American voice; literary ambition: 07:20 – 09:07
• On empathy and subjectivity: 09:07 – 10:07
• France trip, the mask, and NYC parallels: 10:09 – 11:51
• Friends behind the mask: 12:18 – 13:19
• Genius and legacy of Wojnarowicz: 13:28 – 14:48

Closing Thoughts

This episode highlights David Wojnarowicz’s multi-layered artistry, his connection to the poet Rimbaud, and the cultural context of 1970s New York. Through Antonio Sergio Bessa’s curation and insights, listeners gain a deep appreciation for Wojnarowicz not just as an AIDS activist, but as a vital, innovative voice whose work continues to resonate.

For more information:
The "David Arthur Rimbaud in New York" exhibition runs at the Leslie Lohman Gallery through January, with a companion hardcover book available.