NYC Winter Jazzfest Preview: Giant Step 35.5

Summary

All Of It: NYC Winter Jazzfest Preview—Giant Step 35.5

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Maurice Bernstein (Giant Step co-founder & CEO), DJ Nicodemus (former Giant Step resident DJ)

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Episode Overview

This episode of All Of It explores the 35.5th anniversary of Giant Step, a pivotal NYC music collective and label, ahead of their Winter Jazzfest celebrations. Host Alison Stewart welcomes Maurice Bernstein and DJ Nicodemus to trace the history of Giant Step, from its early days championing groove-based music in the 1990s, its influence on jazz/hip hop crossover, to its continued role in New York’s dynamic club scene. The conversation spotlights the people, records, and ethos that helped build a musical community and shares details on the upcoming anniversary events.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Giant Step’s Origins and Mission

• Historical Context:
  • Giant Step launched in the 1990s, drawing inspiration from John Coltrane’s Giant Steps album and British rare groove culture.
  • Pioneered a cross-cultural, musically adventurous scene through club nights, live shows, and eventually a record label.
• Mission:
  • Sought to give visibility to artists whose music was being heavily sampled in hip hop and club records, particularly those no longer in the mainstream spotlight.
• The "If it isn’t happening, make it happen" Spirit:
  • Maurice Bernstein: “It was just, if it isn't happening, make it happen. That's the New York way, right?” (02:52)

Educating the Next Generation

• Sampling & Music History:
  • Giant Step events and Groove Academy concerts introduced new audiences—especially young people—to foundational soul, funk, and jazz artists, as well as the roots of hip hop sampling.
  • Importance for DJs to understand the origins of their music and samples.
  • DJ Nicodemus: “Just knowing the roots and the culture gave us such a groundwork for exploring more music...maybe we wouldn't have gotten unless we heard the sample first.” (03:18)
• Iconic Samples Highlighted:
  • Maurice Bernstein points to Rob Base’s “It Takes Two” (sampling Lyn Collins) as a revelatory moment:
    • “That's Lyn Collins. It's like, who? You know, it's like, right, okay, we need to change that.” (03:55)
• Bootsy Collins Story:
  • Maurice shares how, pre-internet, he tracked down legendary performers by phone—sometimes calling artists' homes.
    • “When I called Ohio...Bootsy was living at home at that point with his mum, and his mum answered the phone.” (05:53)

Building a Scene & Moments of Growth

• Early Struggles:
  • Initial Monday night events at SOB’s had low turnout; persistence paid off when moved to Thursdays at Metropolis Cafe, which attracted a critical mass of “kindred spirits.” (06:19)
• Community and Creativity:
  • The scene became a hub for emerging acts like The Roots, Digable Planets, and Massive Attack, alongside established DJs and musicians.
• From Attendee to DJ (Nicodemus’s Story):
  • DJ Nicodemus recalls practicing skills at home and eventually breaking into the club with a mixtape at a Washington Square Park daytime event, describing the blend of DJs and live musicians as “a huge education” (08:35–09:42).

The Jazz/Hip-Hop Crossover

• Innovative Sampling and Fusion:
  • Artists like A Tribe Called Quest, Digable Planets, and Gang Starr merged jazz sensibilities with hip hop, guided by producers like DJ Premier and Q-Tip.
  • Maurice Bernstein calls their approach “genius”—“They are picking just this moment from an obscure track and turning it into...incredible.” (10:28)
• Underground Sound:
  • DJ Nicodemus valorizes the “rare groove and B sides” spun at Giant Step, often absent from radio playlists but central to the club’s identity.
  • “Going to Giant Step, you would hear a lot of those rare groove and B sides...there was a lot of stuff happening.” (13:18)
• Notable Example:
  • Digable Planets’ “Rebirth of Slick (Cool Like That)” sampled Art Blakey—host plays a clip and guests discuss its significance (11:06–12:37).

Transatlantic Influences

• Maurice Bernstein’s Manchester Roots:
  • UK jazz-dance culture influenced Giant Step’s philosophy.
  • Unlike the UK, NYC jazz clubs didn’t encourage dancing, a surprise for Bernstein: “I went to a jazz club, was sitting down and listening to music, and I was like, this is strange. You're supposed to dance to this music.” (14:12)
  • “America is the home of all this music, but I don’t know if we always appreciate what we have.” (14:30)

Personal Reflections and Legacy

• Unexpected Path:
  • Bernstein studied Islamic law but followed his passion for music.
  • “I’m just so passionate about music...it’s just an honor to be able to work with your passion.” (14:46)
• Proud Projects:
  • Most proud of Nuyorican Soul—“Just being a part of that record...one of the greatest records of all time.” (15:16)
• Listener Memories:
  • Texts from listeners highlight how Giant Step shaped their musical taste and NYC nightlife experiences.

Winter Jazzfest 35.5 Anniversary Events—What to Expect

• Line-up Highlights:
  • Gilles Peterson (UK jazz/club legend), Ron Trent (DJ and former Giant Step resident), Carl Hancock Rux, and Cassa Overall (jazz/hip hop fusion talent) performing jazz versions of classic tracks.
  • DJ Nicodemus and DJ Lovey also spinning in the loft.
  • Maurice Bernstein: “It’s just going to be great music and great people and that, you know, it was always about the music.” (17:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why they started Giant Step:
  • Maurice Bernstein: “If it isn’t happening, make it happen. That’s the New York way, right?” (02:52)
• On educating DJs and audiences:
  • DJ Nicodemus: “Just knowing the roots and the culture gave us such a groundwork for exploring more music...” (03:18)
• On breaking into the scene:
  • DJ Nicodemus: “I was out record shopping every weekend...to see those flyers was like, really...I knew I had to be there. This is it.” (07:48)
• On jazz/hip hop fusion:
  • Maurice Bernstein: “It’s genius the way they do it because they’re picking just this moment from an obscure track and turning it into it...incredible.” (10:28)
• On the club culture:
  • “You weren’t like, watching a concert. So that was a huge education.” (09:41)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:09–02:32 – History and mission of Giant Step, listener shoutouts
• 03:14–05:06 – Sampling, musical education, and Bootsy Collins story
• 06:14–07:16 – Turning point in building the scene
• 07:23–09:46 – DJ Nicodemus’s entry and development
• 10:19–11:06 – Fusion of jazz and hip hop; rare groove culture
• 11:06–13:43 – Digable Planets, jazz/hip hop influences, underground sound
• 13:45–14:32 – UK/NYC parallels in club/jazz scenes
• 14:32–15:38 – Bernstein’s journey, legacy, and proudest projects
• 16:05–17:15 – Winter Jazzfest 2026 anniversary event preview

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Conclusion

This episode shines a light on the enduring legacy of Giant Step and its impact on New York’s music culture—fusing genres, building a vibrant community, and nurturing the careers of some of the most influential artists and DJs in hip hop, jazz, and beyond. The upcoming Winter Jazzfest celebrations serve not just as parties, but as tributes to the creativity, persistence, and passion that define the city’s ever-evolving soundscape.

Transcript

[Maurice Bernstein]

Foreign.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We continue our conversation about Winter Jazz fest with a 35 and a half anniversary celebration of the groundbreaking Giant Stepped. Named after John Coltrane's 1959 album. Giant Step made a name for itself in the 1990s with a concert series called the Groove Academy and weekly parties featuring D DJs and live musicians. You might remember them from their parties at SOB I know I did. Giant Step was the incubator for groups like the Roots, Digable Planets and Massive Attack and was instrumental in bringing London's rare groove sensibility to the States. The company eventually created a label which released the Nyrican soul projects. The 35th anniversary celebration spans two days, kicking off with a special night of performances at elsewhere in Brooklyn this Sunday from 6pm to midnight. Events continue Tuesday at Roulette on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. Joining us to discuss is my next guest, Giant Step co founder and CEO Maurice Bernstein. Nice to meet you.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Nice to meet you too. A longtime listener by the way, first time guest.

[Alison Stewart]

Also joining us is former Giant Step resident DJ Nicodemus who will be at the event on Sunday. Welcome as well.

[DJ Nicodemus]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Hello listeners, we want to hear from you. Do you remember the Groove Academy concert series back in the 1990s? Have you ever been to a Giant Step event at sobs or maybe one of their Monday night parties at the Hudson Hotel? Number is 2124-339692-22433. WNYC. What you remember about that time? Are there DJs or music artists you follow today who you first saw perform at a giant step event? 2124-339692-21243 wnyc Before I read our first question, we got a text in already that says thank you so much for giving Giant Step some long due attention and love. I was 17 when Giant Step came to York City and they gave me an amazing education in music and instilled in me and my friends a love for the variety of artists and DJs to this day.

[DJ Nicodemus]

Wow, that could be my text.

[Alison Stewart]

Why was it so important to you at the time to introduce the youth to the kind of artists that were being sampled by these artists?

[Maurice Bernstein]

Well, the Groove Academy was really about giving some light to artists who were heavily sampled and a lot of them were not working at the time. So honestly it was purely selfish because it was the music I loved and it wasn't happening here. Obviously I'm English so we I think had more of A reverence for that type of music in England. And coming to New York just wanted to see the same thing. So it was just, if it isn't happening, make it happen. That's the New York way, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

That is the New York way. Why do you think it was so important for DJs and to know about the history of the music, the samples that they are choosing from? When you think about the big picture.

[DJ Nicodemus]

I think that, you know, we grew up with a certain sound when, you know, when we were kids. And just knowing the roots and the culture gave us such a groundwork for exploring more music and finding out more about the other artists that they work with on. You know, you read the back of the COVID and it just took us on a journey that, you know, maybe we wouldn't have gotten unless we heard the sample first, you know, in whether it was hip hop culture or disco or house music.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you remember any samples that you. That you really were specific and that you wanted people to know about at the time?

[Maurice Bernstein]

Well, I think the one that really sort of like hit me was when was Rob Bason did It Takes Two? And it was like, that's. That's Lyn Collins. It's like, you know, like who? You know, it's like, right, okay, we need to change that.

[Interviewer/Host]

We wanted to listen to one of those artists. We want to listen to Bootsy Collins.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Oh, yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Listen to a little clip of him saying, I'd rather be with you and we can talk about it on the other side.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Great cheer, by the way.

[Alison Stewart]

I'd rather be with you Poo.

[Guest Singer]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah I'd rather be with you I'd rather be with you Pooh. Yeah, yeah I'd rather be with you.

[Guest Singer]

I'd rather be with you Until I'm.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Through oh, yes, I do I'd rather be with you until that day we'll fly away I just love that.

[Alison Stewart]

Maurice, there's a story that you said actually look in the phone book and call up artists.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Is that true?

[Maurice Bernstein]

That's very true. This is. This is pre Internet. So it was. If a lot of these artists didn't have agents anymore, so you literally would look their numbers up in a phone book. And I actually ended up getting Bootsy's number from Bobby Bird, who was with James Brown, the Famous Flames and et cetera, et cetera. And after gaining his trust, I said, can I have Bootsy's phone number? He goes, sure. Bootsy was living at home at that point with his mum, and his mum answered the phone. And when I Called Ohio.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Maurice Bernstein]

And I said, is Bootsy there? She goes.

[Alison Stewart]

William.

[Maurice Bernstein]

There's a guy with a strange British accent on the phone. And he gets. Gets on the phone, you know. So, yeah, I mean, these. It was, you know, Gil Scott Heron, the Ohio Players, Jimmy Caster, Maceo Parker, Fred Wesley. I mean, these are legends, and it was an honor and a pleasure to work with them.

[Alison Stewart]

When did it sort of turn into a scene?

[Maurice Bernstein]

Giant Step?

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Well, we started, as you quite rightly said, on a Monday night at sobs, and nobody came because we were trying to do something so different. And it really wasn't until we moved to a Thursday at a small place called the Metropolis Cafe in Union Square, that just doing it for long enough, eventually enough kindred spirits come and find. Find you. And it just burgeoned into this scene. And, you know, it was the same time when in Britain you had a massive attack in Jim Iroquois and the Brand New Heavies. And in the States, obviously there was Tribe Called Quest, de La Soul, Gangstar, and then sort of young artists like Digable Planets, the Roots would come down. So it was a lot of kindred spirits all coming together. It wasn't just one thing.

[Alison Stewart]

Nicodemus, you were a DJ at Giant Step from 1995 to 1999, is that right?

[DJ Nicodemus]

Yeah, more or less.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, more or less. How did you develop your skills at that time? How did you develop your skills?

[DJ Nicodemus]

A lot of practice in the bedroom, just doing what hip hop DJs did back then and just, you know, practicing loops and loops and loops and digging in records. Luckily, I had my dad's record collection, so I was able to kind of see where some of those samples were coming from that I loved in hip hop. Earth, Wind and Fire, my new Dabango, and, you know, you name it Creative Source. And I guess like, you know, developing skills also came with just going out and listening and. And to tie it into Giant Step. I mean, I was out record shopping every weekend and to see those flyers was like, really. I mean, it was frustrating because I knew I had to be there. I was like, this is where I need to be. This is. This is it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[DJ Nicodemus]

I couldn't get, you know, I was too young and. And I just was like, you know what? I'm going to give it a shot. Because, like, we were going to hip hop shows at the Ritz when we were like, 15.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[DJ Nicodemus]

Because, you know, they didn't care. They just let anybody in. We had the fake ID from Jersey, whatever. But this Giant Step thing was a little Older and a little more, you know, tough to get in with the door. And it was the cool spot to be. I was nervous. I looked like 15. Yeah. And you know, just with, with luck, you know. Finally they did a daytime event in, in Washington Square park. And I came rolling up with that, that, that mixtape and, and you know, and I was like, hey guys, I need to get in your party somehow. Can I get in this way? And to go see those DJs play seamlessly smash, Chill Freeze and Jazzy Nice with musicians rocking over. It was such an education like that. That was like I was watching a whole groove happening seamless. And it wasn't a show, it was a party. It was like you on a dance floor rocking. You weren't like, you know, watching a concert. So that was a huge education.

[Interviewer/Host]

This Sunday at Winter Jazz Fest, we are seeing Giant step celebrating its 35th and a half interview anniversary, tracing its roots back to its concert series. I'm talking to co founder and CEO Maurice Bernste and Giant Step DJ Nicodemus. So part of the reason Giant Step set itself apart was this sort of jazz hip hop crossover. How were artists experimenting with all of these different sounds at the time? We have to put, put on your, your Wayback Machine.

[Maurice Bernstein]

When you first started out, how were artists experimenting with jazz and hip hop? Well, I mean the, you've just got to listen to like the Tribe records and what Gangstar was doing. DJ Premier and Q Tip, they were all digging those, those samples and, and putting them into, putting them into their music in very smart and clever ways. And I think with the DJs back then, it was like, who could have that magic sample, you know, like who had the, that groove, that. And if you actually just trace where some of those tracks come from, it's like they are, it's geni the way they do it because they're picking like just this moment from an obscure track that, and turning it into it. It's, you know, incredible.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's listen to Digable Planets. They sampled Art Blakey and the Jazz Messenger's 1978 song Stretching. Let's listen to Art Blakey. I almost want to sing cool like that. So let's listen to Digimon Planets.

[Guest Singer]

We like the breeze floats straight out of our lids. Them they got boo bodies, Harvard Brooklyn kids, us Floor Rush when they DJ booming classics you dig the crew on the fattest hip hop record he tucks the kinks and sinks into the sounds she frequents deep fatter joints called undergrounds Our funk zooms like Hitler Mary Jane they flock to booms, man boogie had to change who freaks the clips with madam mouth percussion where kinky hair goes the unthought of dimensions why is it so fly? Cause hip hop kept some drama When Butterfly rocked the light blue suede Pumas what about a cut? We push it off the corner how was the buzz? Entire hip hop era was fresh and fact since they started saying Ally cuz phones made fat from right beneath my hood the pooba of the styles like miles and like 60 funky worms with waves and perms Just sending junky rhythms right down your block we beat to rap what key beat to lock But I'm cool like that I'm cool like that I'm cool like that I'm cool.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like that It's a good day at work when you can play just a couple Planets. Nicky Dumas. What was one of your favorite combos of jazz and hip hop that you like to mix?

[DJ Nicodemus]

You know, the Tropical Quest, Digable Planets, Gangstar Pete Rock and Seal, Smooth. All that stuff was. Was just perfect. It was. It was just. Just the right place and the right time. After all, the funk had been in hip hop for so many years. It just came at the right time. And those were the artists that. And it was a lot of underground artists doing stuff that followed that trend because once it hit, you know, like with Cool like that and Tropical Quest, whole second album, Low End Theory, that's. I mean, it just opened up such a great moment in hip hop, as far as I was concerned. And going to Giant Step, you would hear a lot of those rare groove and B sides that they weren't on the radio or didn't make it through the gatekeepers of the major labels, but there was a lot of stuff happening.

[Interviewer/Host]

You grew up in Northern England.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. What parallels.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Manchester.

[Interviewer/Host]

Manchester. What parallels did you see between what was happening on the music scene in New York and what was happening back home?

[Alison Stewart]

Well.

[Maurice Bernstein]

The jazz scene was more in London, the dance jazz scene. And people like Giles Peterson and I used to go to those parties. They had Ding Walls, they had the Wag Club, and they just didn't have it in New York, surprisingly enough. When I, when I first came here and I went to a jazz club, was sitting down and listening to music, and I was like, this is strange. You're supposed to dance to this music. So again, you know, I think America is the home of all this music, but I don't know if we always appreciate what we have.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was this supposed to be your job growing up?

[Maurice Bernstein]

No, I went to I did a degree in Islamic law.

[Alison Stewart]

So.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Yes, it wasn't supposed to be my job, but I'm just so passionate about music and the fact that I've been able to. We're 35 and a half years old and still going, and the company has developed and grown and we do things globally and we're, you know, we do a lot of creative work for different companies. It's just, it's just an honor to be able to, you know, work with your passion.

[Alison Stewart]

What projects are the most are you the most proud of?

[Maurice Bernstein]

That's a very hard question, but if I have to answer one, I would say Nuyori Console. Just being a part of that record. Cause it's just one of the greatest records of all time. And I mean, the producers Kenny Dope Gonzalez and Louis Vega take all the bows for it. But just being a part of that was just an absolute honor.

[Alison Stewart]

This text says shout out to Maurice and Jonathan. Back in the day, I was just a young club goer, totally caught up in the New York scene. I became fascinated with the New York nightlife and Giant Step in the late 80s, hitting spots like Mars and the Choice for those real house nights. We always found our way to Giant Step events where live bands made the place come alive. Let's talk about this weekend. What can we expect?

[Maurice Bernstein]

Well, we've got Giles Peterson coming over from London. It's his only New York show so far this year. It's a short year, but it's an exclusive, so we're very excited about that. And we also have Ron Trent. And Ron was the resident of Giant step from about 1999 to about 2001, but it was a very short period. But Ron also produced a lot of the music that we put out on our label. So Ron will be playing as well. We have Carl Hancock Rucks, who's going to perform Lamentations, which was to track him. And Ron produced for Giant Step Records back in the day. We also have a live performance from Cassa overall Cassa's album Cream, where he does jazz versions of a lot of these classic hip hop tracks. Cool like that Ain't Nothing but a G thing. Maddie Couture is going to be a guest on that too. And then in the loft we have a very special guest, DJ Nicodemus, who's sitting next to me here and also DJ Lovey as well. So it's just going to be great music and great people and that, you know, it was always about the music.

[Alison Stewart]

And the people I've been speaking with co founder and CEO of Giant Step, Maurice Bernstein and DJ Nicodemus. Thanks for coming into the studio.

[DJ Nicodemus]

Thanks for having us.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Thank you for having us. I also want to give a shout out to Winter Jazz, who we're doing this with. So thank you, Winter Jazz, and congratulations on 22 years.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's go out on Cast her overall.

[Maurice Bernstein]

Sam. Sa.

[Alison Stewart]

Sam.

[Interviewer/Host]

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