Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)

Episode: Pasta Enthusiast Dan Pashman on 'Anything's Pastable' Cookbook
Date: March 4, 2024
Host: Matt Katz (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Dan Pashman (Host of The Sporkful podcast; creator of Cascatelli pasta; author of Anything's Pastable)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Dan Pashman's inventive and playful approach to pasta, spotlighting his new cookbook, Anything's Pastable: 81 Inventive Pasta Recipes for Saucy People. The conversation delves into his creative process developing pasta shapes (notably Cascatelli), why he rebels against “default” pasta pairings, and how his cookbook encourages listeners to push beyond traditional pasta-sauce combinations. In classic Sporkful fashion, Pashman brings an enthusiastic, accessible tone, blending food science, cultural perspective, and fun.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging the Pasta Status Quo

• Pashman’s dissatisfaction with spaghetti as a shape—“it sucks”—kickstarted his pasta innovation journey. He criticizes spaghetti for poor sauce-holding ability and a lack of satisfying bite (02:05).
• The popularity of Cascatelli, his inventive pasta shape, took off, but Pashman found most people used it in traditional ways: “Three quarters of the photos involved tomato sauce, meat sauce, or Mac and cheese. Once again, Dan thought, I can do better.” (02:05)
• Quote: "Many people seem unaware of all of the glorious ingredients they can and should be putting on their pasta shapes." – Dan Pashman [03:24]

2. Why We Default to Red Sauce & Breaking Out of the Rut

• Pashman attributes Americans’ loyalty to red sauce to Italian-American culinary history and “Chef Boyardee” nostalgia (03:40).
• He’s not against classics, but wants people to expand their pasta horizons: “It’s not about nutrition...there's an awful lot out of it and it's a little bit tiresome. And I just...felt like the world didn't need another cookbook with a recipe for marinara sauce.” [04:21]
• The cookbook includes a “jarred tomato sauce decision tree” for those who still want to use red sauce—encouraging simple, creative upgrades rather than more of the same (04:21, 17:45).

3. The Science and Art of Pasta Shapes

• Explains Cascatelli’s development: the focus on “ruffles” for texture and sauce-holding (“sauce trough”) (05:24).
• Accidental design solutions—modifications from the manufacturer led to improved sauce retention (05:24–06:27).
• Quote: “Everyone just wants to use tubes to hold sauce... Nooks and crannies and folds are, in many cases, I think, a better way to hold sauce.” – Dan Pashman [05:24]
• Memorable Moment: Pashman’s “sad, sad place” description of trying to scrape leftover spaghetti sauce from an empty plate [06:44].

4. Pasta Cooking Tips & Popular Mistakes

• Buy good quality, slow-dried pasta—preferably extruded through bronze die—for better texture and “toothsinkability,” likened to “biting into a steak” (07:32).
• Salt your water (2 tbsp kosher salt per 4 qts) for flavorful pasta: “Really good pasta should taste great plain right out of the pot.” [07:32]
• On boiling water: Covering brings water to a boil faster, but adding salt does not meaningfully decrease boiling time—a “myth busted” moment [08:39–09:06].

5. Inventive Sauce Pairings & Cookbook Highlights

• The book goes beyond Italian classics, featuring recipes like “kimchi carbonara,” “keema bolognese,” and “cacio e pepe with chili crisp” (09:24).
• Collaborations bring fresh perspectives—e.g., James Park’s contribution to the chili crisp recipe (10:16).
• Chili crisp and cacio e pepe: “Combination of chili crisp and anything creamy and cheesy is a natural.” Optional Sichuan peppercorns add depth (10:16–11:24).
• Quote: “When I tasted it, I said ... there’s another level, a deeper spice that I find myself craving. So we added optional Sichuan peppercorns...” [11:11]

6. Pasta Shape Obsessions: Beyond Cascatelli

• Favorite “non-Pashman” pasta shapes: mafalda, casarecce, strozzapreti (“the priest strangler”), praised for textured, sauce-holding folds (11:59–12:50).
• Cascatelli gluten-free variants are available (13:32).

7. Texture: The Secret to Pasta Satisfaction

• Dynamic contrast (multiple textures in a bite) is key; “pangritato” (seasoned toasted breadcrumbs) adds crunch and flavor (13:59).
• Quote: “Most people in America...just did not get the memo about texture.” – Dan Pashman [14:26]
• Encourages using toppings like furikake, corn nuts, and more—“You’re gonna struggle to get it to the table, because I usually eat half of it before I even serve the meal.” [15:55]

8. Pesto: Versatile, Customizable, and Not Just Basil

• “Presto pesto” formula—use up whatever greens, herbs, nuts, and cheese you have: “That’s kind of what pesto is really for.” (16:22)
• Almonds, sunflower seeds, and other ingredients offer nut-allergy-friendly options (17:17).

9. Upgrading the Basic Pasta Night

• Pashman’s “jarred tomato sauce decision tree” helps you turn store-bought sauce into something special, depending on whether you want it heartier, spicier, or more textured—simple upgrades: roasted eggplant, fish sauce, sriracha, cheese, MSG, etc. (17:45).
• Quote: “There's a million different ways to take a jar of high quality sauce and transform it into something that feels a little more special in a matter of minutes.” [18:41]

10. Reflections on Food Fame and Legacy

• Though The Sporkful podcast will always feel closest to his heart, Pashman expects to be remembered for Cascatelli, with viral “celebrity moments” like Sarah Jessica Parker sharing it on Instagram (19:04-20:02).
• Memorable Moment: “You know, this is gonna be my obituary. And that's okay...like inventing your own pasta shape—if that's what I'm going to go down in history for, I'll take it.” [19:04]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Many people seem unaware of all of the glorious ingredients they can and should be putting on their pasta shapes." – Dan Pashman [03:24]
• "Everyone just wants to use tubes to hold sauce... Nooks and crannies and folds are, in many cases, I think, a better way to hold sauce." – Dan Pashman [05:24]
• "When sauce gets in there, it cannot get out." [re: Cascatelli's sauce trough] – Dan Pashman [06:24]
• "That's a sad, sad place to be. Right? Nobody wants to be in that situation." [about leftover sauce after spaghetti] – Dan Pashman [06:44]
• "You need salty water to season that pasta. Really good pasta should taste great plain right out of the pot..." – Dan Pashman [07:32]
• "Most people in America eating pasta...just did not get the memo about texture." – Dan Pashman [14:26]
• "There's a million different ways to take a jar of high quality sauce and transform it into something that feels a little more special in a matter of minutes." – Dan Pashman [18:41]
• "This is gonna be my obituary. And that's okay...inventing your own pasta shape—if that's what I'm going to go down in history for, I'll take it." – Dan Pashman [19:04]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:05: Spaghetti critique and Cascatelli origin story
• 03:24: Why Americans default to red sauce
• 05:24: Design logic of Cascatelli and sauce retention
• 07:32: Tips for buying and cooking pasta
• 09:24: Inventive, non-classic pasta sauces from the cookbook
• 10:16: Cacio e pepe with chili crisp & flavor science
• 11:59: Ranking favorite pasta shapes
• 13:59: Importance of texture; dynamic contrast; pangritato
• 16:22: The “presto pesto” formula
• 17:45: Doctoring jarred tomato sauces
• 19:04: Food fame, celebrity moments, legacy as a pasta inventor

Additional Information

• Anything’s Pastable released March 19, 2024.
• Dan Pashman’s appearances: March 18 (Gramercy Theatre with Claire Saffitz); March 19 (Suffolk County JCC). Info at sporkful.com/tour.
• Gluten-free Cascatelli (by Bonza) is available at Whole Foods and online.

Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, witty, and enthusiastically nerdy—Dan Pashman demystifies food science with charm, encourages experimentation, and pokes fun at culinary conventions. Matt Katz offers friendly, curious questions that steer the conversation for both pasta newbies and food obsessives.

This summary covers the essential ideas, advice, and flavor of the episode for anyone wanting to level up their pasta game without needing to listen.