Pre-Tonys Conversations: 'CATS,' 'Two Strangers' and 'Rocky Horror'

Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Pre-Tonys Conversations: 'CATS,' 'Two Strangers' and 'Rocky Horror'
Date: June 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special pre-Tonys episode, Alison Stewart dives into three standout Broadway productions: the radically reimagined Cats: The Jellicle Ball, the new musical Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York, and the energetic revival of The Rocky Horror Show. Through live performances, interviews, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes, Stewart and her guests explore how these shows are redefining Broadway with fresh cultural perspectives, inventive staging, and inclusive casting—celebrating both the city’s legacy and the transformative power of theater.

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Segment 1: "Cats: The Jellicle Ball" – Broadway on the Radio

[00:04 – 39:14, 44:08 – 51:07]

Main Themes

• Reinvention of a classic musical through the lens of NYC's queer ballroom culture.
• Collaboration, vision, and resistance in reimagining "Cats."
• The power of community, inclusivity, and reverence for elders in performance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Performance: "Rum Tum Tugger"

[01:43]
Live musical number by Sydney James Harcourt and cast, setting the tone for the episode with "vogued-out" Cats energy.

The Vision Behind the Revival

[06:11] Alison Stewart introduces co-directors Bill Rauch and Zaylin Levinson.

• On the Queer Recontextualization of 'Memory':
  • Bill’s inspiration came from imagining an older gay man singing “Memory” in a bar—uncovering powerful, new emotional depths.

    “It just felt like being sung by an older person in a queer context would bring out contours in the music and in the lyrics that could be very powerful.” —Bill Rauch, [06:53]

• Zaylin Levinson’s Early Love of Cats:
  • Grew up watching pro-shot trailers as a child, enchanted by movement and mystery.
  • First watched the full musical after pestering his mom for the VHS at Blockbuster.

    “I sat five inches away from the television and I didn’t move for two and a half hours.” —Zaylin Levinson, [07:27]

The Concept: Humans as 'Cats'

[08:36]

• The initial joke of "doing Cats with no cats" sparked a serious artistic inquiry—could “cat” serve as a human metaphor, especially in the context of NYC street culture and ballroom?
• The pitch was met with skepticism and doubt, but also persistence.

  “People would, in my face, be like, ‘Okay.’ Which is strange. But...having actors who have been so trusting and vulnerable and courageous and rigorous and critical without ever being fearful or doubtful, I think it was a really big ingredient for us pushing through all of the naysaying.” —Zaylin Levinson, [11:27]

Infusing Ballroom Culture

[12:20]

• From the outset, the creative team linked the “Jellicle Ball” to ballroom events—competitive, performative gatherings rooted in queer and BIPOC NYC history.
• Collaboration with ballroom icons (notably Omari Wiles) ensured authenticity.
• Musical numbers and characters were assigned ballroom “categories” (e.g., Realness for Rum Tum Tugger).

Navigating Artistic Challenges

[13:16]

• Leaning into the difficulty as a marker of meaningful and necessary work.
• Accepting and embracing public failure as part of the creative journey.

  "Challenge is not a sign that you are on the wrong path…for this work, so much of the job is standing in public and failing publicly as quickly as you can to get to the right answer.” —Zaylin Levinson, [13:29]

Musical Performances

• "Bustopher Jones" [14:58]: A playful, lush reimagining highlighting the connection to the New York scene.
• "Macavity" [17:58]: Bebe Nicole Simpson brings palpable drama and style.

Choreography: Fusing Broadway & Ballroom

[22:40] Interview with choreographers Omari Wiles & Arturo Lyons

• Omari’s roots in African dance influenced theatricality and emotional expression.
• Artistic partnership between Omari and Arturo was built on mutual respect, honesty, and collaboration.

  “We work so well together…the energy that we bring together, I mean, it’s a dynamic duo. You cannot split us apart.” —Omari Wiles, [25:38]

• Importing ballroom’s competitive “categories” to the musical structure: authenticity, gender expression, and individuality honored in the reimagined numbers.

Reverence for Elders

[27:56]

• Deliberate balance between athletic, youthful choreography and respect for older performers/house mothers.
• Paid homage to the elders who undergird both Black and queer communities.

  “They are the ones who really helped the young ones understand who they are, where they come from, and how to love.” —Omari Wiles, [29:28]

Ballroom Accessibility in NYC

[30:15]

• Encouragement for audience members to experience balls in person: Brooklyn’s OTA at $3 Bill, the latex ball at GMHC, Christopher Street Pier.
• Noted the increasing visibility and mainstreaming of ballroom.

Show-Stopping Songs

• "Memory" [33:50]: Tempest Chastity Moore’s rendition, praised for its vulnerability and layered emotion.

  “I always say that that song has a lot of pain and comfort...I’m remembering the good times and things that I once regretted that now make sense.” —Tempest Chastity Moore, [39:35]

Andre de Shields on Old Deuteronomy & Thematic Legacy

• De Shields (legend of Broadway) chooses this show for its “revolutionary” collision of generations and paradigms.

  “I am constantly looking for the next revolution because I want to be on the front lines...[This is] the intersection between history and evolution. And finally, the change that’s been sitting on the horizon, the paradigm that says, come, it’s my turn.” —Andre de Shields, [40:36]

• On leadership:

  “Old Deuteronomy is also the connection between the microcosm and the macrocosm...he is the overlord of these unusual creatures, each of whom has, at a minimum, nine lives.” —Andre de Shields, [42:26]

Grand Finale: "The Addressing of Cats"

• De Shields and cast close out with an arch, affectionate explanation of how to properly respect and address a cat (and, by extension, individuality).

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Segment 2: "Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York"

[54:19 – 77:55]

Main Themes

• Contemporary New York City as a site of romance, nostalgia, and transformation.
• The immigrant and native experiences in the city.
• Dreams, family wounds, and the power of unexpected friendship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Meet the Show and Its Stars

• Premise: Two strangers (Robyn, a worn-down Brooklynite, and Dougal, a starry-eyed Brit) crisscross New York to deliver a wedding cake—and are changed along the way.
• Accolades: 8 Tony nominations, including Best Musical, Best Direction of a Musical, and Best Performance for both leads.
• Cast: Cristiani Pitts (“Robin”) and Sam Tutty (“Dougal”).

Surviving a Blizzard Matinee

[54:19]

• Both actors reflect on the camaraderie and “us against the elements” vibe of a near-snow-out performance.

The Cast Album

[55:29]

• Announcement: Original Broadway Cast Album releasing June 20th.
• Recording was a whirlwind:

  “It was very much like a marathon session of singing.” —Sam Tutty, [55:44]

Character Chemistry

[56:12]

• Pitts describes blending harmonically with Tutty’s performance; the musical’s intimacy is highlighted.
• The show’s humor emerges from their dynamic: Dougal’s relentless optimism vs. Robin’s Brooklyn-worn realism.

Performing New York, For New York

[57:04]

• Tutty (Brit) describes the surreal joy of performing in NYC for New Yorkers, whose in-jokes and attitudes change the temperature of the show nightly.

Robin & Dougal: Character Contrast

• Robin: Deep NY roots, shaped by decades of change and gentrification, representing frustration and nostalgia.

  “That frustration with, like, it used to be like this and now it’s not...that, I think, is something a lot of born and raised New Yorkers can, can deal with or can resonate with.” —Cristiani Pitts, [58:03]

• Dougal: Views NYC through the lens of media and fantasy—his wonder and delight mirror Tutty’s own experience as a transplant.

Live Song Performances

• "New York" [60:16]: A zippy, comic tour through Dougal’s TV-inspired NYC.
• "This Is The Place" [67:03]: Robin’s heartfelt return to her home neighborhood, highlighting gentrification, memory, and the city’s contradictions.
• "American Express" [74:46]: Comic high point where Robin and Dougal “live large” with a borrowed credit card—satirizing class, aspiration, and fleeting excess.

The Emotional Core

[64:16]

• Robin yearns simply to feel “okay again,” haunted by lost family joy.
• Dougal is “a dedicated optimist”; his optimism and Robin’s pragmatism create both humor and depth.

  “They are both so close together...What Cristiani’s done masterfully is find so much humor within Robin’s sort of pragmatism.”—Sam Tutty, [65:19]

• Emotional range is praised:

  “You spent an hour...making people laugh, that sort of, like, u-turn—what you’re actually seeing is a deeply sad person. As an actor, that is like the chewiest, fattiest, like, oh, my God.” —Sam Tutty, [71:49]

Craft & Camaraderie

• The two leads support each other moment by moment on stage, creating intimacy and resilience through “eye conversation.”
• Live band on-stage energizes the environment and creates cast/audience synergy.

Thematic Undertones

• Complex family estrangement (Robin avoiding kin out of shame or fear).
• Dougal’s longing to meet his absent father—a tension between hopefulness and the pain of not being chosen or prioritized.

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Segment 3: "The Rocky Horror Show"

[79:24 – 101:12]

Main Themes

• The evolution and radical inclusivity of an iconic, camp musical.
• Queer celebration, gender freedom, and audience interactivity.
• The role of risk and “downtownification” in the current Broadway moment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

First Encounters: Rocky Horror’s Impact

• Director Sam Pinkleton saw the show in his 20s, “angry [he] hadn’t seen it earlier” for its liberatory message.

  “If I had seen this when I was 15, it would have solved a lot of big problems that I was thinking about at the time.” —Sam Pinkleton, [79:24]

• Rachel Dratch (Narrator): First saw it in junior high, in self-conscious punk makeup—felt “intrigued but not quite knowing what was happening.”

The Narrator’s Role

• Dratch collaborated with Pinkleton to shape a persona both wry and improvisational, guiding the audience through chaos and camp.

  “I’m sort of your guide, but...I’m sort of observing this freaky weirdness, but then I’m sort of a part of it too.” —Rachel Dratch, [80:06]

• The show is uniquely responsive to audience callouts; Dratch’s improv skills, developed at Second City, are crucial.

Audience Participation & Discovery

• Previews and shadow-cast rehearsal encounters helped cast prepare for unpredictable callouts.
• The Broadway venue’s scale amplifies the thrill for audience members, creating new, live feedback loops each night.

  “Part of the fun of the narrator is hosting the audience every night and responding live to whatever is being thrown at them.” —Sam Pinkleton, [80:45]

Risk-Taking and Broadway’s “Downtownification”

• Rocky Horror, like other recent groundbreaking shows, brings “riskified” theater and downtown sensibility to Broadway’s mainstages.

  “If we had made that thinking it was gonna be on Broadway, it would have probably been rotten. But risk was rewarded...” —Sam Pinkleton, [86:34]

The Cast: Diversity, Community, and Queer Spirit

[91:19 – 101:12] Panel: Stephanie Hsu (Janet), Amber Gray (Riff Raff), Mikayla J. Rodriguez (Columbia)

• Cast includes drag performers, indie film vets, SNL talent, and Broadway stalwarts.

  “That sort of collision of backgrounds is what makes this production especially queer in spirit. Queer outside of sexuality, but queer in the spirit of art making.” —Stephanie Hsu, [91:19]

• Mikayla J. Rodriguez: Broadway debut; reflects on the electric challenge of larger audiences.
• Amber Gray: The company’s different skill sets foster unusual caretaking and collaboration.
• Gray’s Riff Raff: "severe daddy issues,” driven both by adulation and a need to rebel.
• Hsu’s Janet: Reinterpreted for 2026 not just as repressed but as a woman discovering agency beyond being chosen.

  “Her biggest journey is going from a woman who desperately wants to be chosen to learning how to choose for herself.” —Stephanie Hsu, [94:27]

Embracing Inclusivity and Boldness

• Discussion of how casting (notably with a trans actress as Columbia) directly challenges norms.

  “That’s even a step forward to what is put against us and how we have to continue to keep going forward...That is when boldness, and I hope we continue to do that. We will continue to do that.” —Mikayla J. Rodriguez, [97:59]

• Amber Gray connects Rocky Horror’s queerness to its founding—Richard O’Brien writing from a place of longing for self-liberation in an era before language for gender fluidity.

Costume Story

• Gray’s Riff Raff wig honors the original but personalizes it to her biracial heritage.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Culture encompasses...a million other things. In other words, ALL OF IT.” (Show ethos)
• Bill Rauch on reimagining classics: “Everybody [doubted us]...but the incredible colleagues we got to work with just kept fueling us.” [10:40]
• Andre de Shields: "Now, right here beats the heart of an unreconstructed hippie. I am constantly looking for the next revolution..." [40:36]
• Cristiani Pitts (Robin): “Shame is a hell of a thing, and it really keeps her [Robin]...hiding, which is why someone who is not hiding anything is so overwhelming.” [73:20]
• Rachel Dratch: "I think the fun of it is playing with the audience, letting them know that it's okay to yell things out and that we're enjoying that.” [81:42]
• Stephanie Hsu: “There is this kind of radical permission not only as, like, with the content of the story itself, but with the relationship to the audience: we're saying, 'Come here. Be yourselves, and come be with us.'" [95:51]
• Amber Gray: “We are quite good to one another because we come from the different backgrounds, I think." [93:10]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:04]: Alison Stewart opens, introduces Cats: The Jellicle Ball special
• [01:43]: "Rum Tum Tugger" performance
• [06:11]: Interview w/ co-directors Bill Rauch & Zaylin Levinson
• [12:20]: Ballroom culture references and process
• [14:58]: “Bustopher Jones” performance
• [17:58]: “Macavity” performance
• [22:40]: Choreography insights: Omari Wiles & Arturo Lyons
• [33:50]: "Memory" performance feat. Tempest Chastity Moore
• [40:22]: Andre de Shields on the show’s revolutionary impact
• [44:08]: Grand finale: “The Addressing of Cats”
• [54:19]: Introduction to "Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York"
• [60:16]: Performance of "New York" (Sam Tutty & Christiani Pitts)
• [67:03]: “This Is The Place” (Pitts)
• [74:46]: “American Express” performance (Pitts & Tutty)
• [79:24]: Rocky Horror segment begins (with director Sam Pinkleton, Rachel Dratch)
• [80:06]: The narrator's function and live improv
• [91:19]: Cast roundtable—building queer, crowded community on stage
• [95:51]: On permission and the unique audience relationship
• [100:46]: Costumes, closing thoughts

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Tone

• Warm, witty, informed, and deeply rooted in both NYC and theater culture
• Equally reverent toward tradition and irreverent/tinker-friendly toward innovation
• Guest voices are preserved: playful, sincere, communal

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Conclusion

From the radical queer reworking of a megamusical classic to the tender, comic mapping of a new New York romance, to the electric gender-play of Rocky Horror’s Broadway return, this ALL OF IT Pre-Tonys episode is a love letter to the stage’s power to surprise, provoke, include, and enchant—a showcase of how culture keeps evolving, and how New York’s creative vitality remains undimmed.

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For video, additional info, or upcoming events, visit wnyc.org/allofit.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Happy Friday to everyone, but especially to the theater fans out there, because it is the Friday before the Tony Awards. All week long, we've been revisiting our conversations with some of the folks behind this year's best Broadway plays, including Becky Shaw, Fallen Angels, the Ballisters and Giant. Today, we're talking musicals. Coming up later in the show, we'll hear from the cast and creatives behind Rocky Horror and Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. But first, we're going to kick things off with a very special hour. Recently we held another installment of Broadway on the Radio, a series of live events where we bring the brightest of Broadway talent to WNYC to perform before a live audience in the green space. Our last event was with the cast and crew behind Cat's the Jellicle Ball, which earned nine nominations at this year's Tony Awards, including best musical Revival, best direction for Bill Rauch and Zalen Levingston, best choreography and best costume design, among others. The show takes a musical by Andrew Lloyd Webber based on a book of whimsical poems about cats by T.S. eliot, and infuses some trappings of New York City's queer ballroom culture. And it was recently announced that Cats would be extended through January 2027 because of popular demand. And in a minute, you'll hear why. We starred the event with a song from actor Sydney James Harcourt with backing vocals from Darius Wright and Garnett Williams. So let's get into it with Rum Tum Tugger.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

The next category is Realness. T. For a D. A curious cat if you offer me pheasant I'd rather have grouse if you put me in a house, I much prefer flat if you put me in a flat then I'd rather have a house if you set me on a mouse then I only want a rat if you set me on a rat then I'd rather chase some house the Rock Tugger is

[Omari Wiles]

a curious cat and there isn't any

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

call for me to shout what he will do as he will do and there's no doing anything about it. When you let me in then I want to go out Always on the wrong side of every door and as soon as I'm at home then I like to get out I like to lie in the bureau drawer But I make such a fuss when I can't

[Andre De Shields]

get out

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Turtle Tugger is a curious

[Omari Wiles]

gas and there isn't any use for

[Andre De Shields]

you to doubt it for he will

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

do as he tells you and there's no doing anything. My dislodging way's a matter of habit if you offer me fish then I only want to feast if there isn't any fish then I won't eat a rabbit if you offer me cream then I sniff and sn Only like what I find for myself Nah, but you catch me in it right up to my ears if you put it away on a lot of shell. Doesn't care for a cuddle But I'll

[Omari Wiles]

leash up on your lap in the

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

middle of your song for this other night Toy like a horrible. Sam.

[Omari Wiles]

No doing anything

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

about.

[Andre De Shields]

Yeah, About it.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Sydney James Harcourt, Rum Tum Tugger, and the cast from Cats, the Jellicle Ball. This is all of it. We're here live in the green space with the stars of Cats. I'd like to introduce to you right now the co directors of Cats, Bill Rauch and Zaylin Levingston. Thank you for being with us. So you had a memory. You were sitting in a bar and you had this vision of a man at a gay bar, an older man singing Memory. What about that image was important to you? And what did it strike in you?

[Bill Rauch]

You know, the song is so beautiful and so melancholy, and it just felt like being sung by an older person in a queer context would bring out contours in the music and in the lyrics that could be very powerful. So that was the original impulse.

[Alison Stewart]

Zaylin, your first exposure was to Cats. As a preschooler, you were watching Barney's Great Adventure.

[Zaylin Levinson]

That's true.

[Alison Stewart]

How did Barney bring you to Cats? And what did you like about it as a kid?

[Zaylin Levinson]

That's a great question. So, yeah, I would watch this movie, Barney's Great Adventure, and on the trailers, they would show a trailer of the pro shot of cats from 1997. 98. And I didn't know what I really was looking at. I just knew that the way these people were moving and what they dressed like felt, you know, like they did something tingly in my stomach. And I didn't know what was going on. And one day I went to Blockbuster with my mother, and I saw the box set of this pro shot with the black case and the yellow eyes. And I said, I want to watch that. And she was like, you don't want to watch that. And I was like, I do want to watch this. And so she was like, okay, I get this. You have to watch it because Blockbuster costs money. And so I got it. And the story goes, she put it in the vhs And I sat five inches away from the television, and I didn't move for two and a half hours. I didn't ask for food. I didn't go to the restroom. And then that's when she knew I had a problem.

[Alison Stewart]

You said before that you and Bill were joking with a friend about turning Cats into a production where there weren't cats, the cats weren't cats. What was interesting to you about that idea and that. Why did it seem. In what way did it seem impossible? We know it's possible, but at the time.

[Zaylin Levinson]

Yeah, well, I mean, Bill had been on this journey with trying to investigate cats as humans before I was. And it was just like this serendipitous thing where it just so happened at the beginning of his process, I had been asking the same question around. Could there be a production of Cats where there were no cats? Would it be called Cats? No ears, no tails. And could it be situated in a, like, cultural context? And it just felt like it could be artistically possible because in the 20th century, everyone called each other, you know, look at that sly cat. That's a dangerous cat over there. Look at that sexy cat right there, you know? So I was like, this is possible, probably, but just felt like that could never happen. Andrew Lloyd Webber would never allow something like that to happen with his material. And then I was talking to who eventually became the casting director of the show, Victor Vasquez of Ex Casting. And I was joking with him. I was like, can you believe that that would be a crazy idea? And then he didn't laugh, and he said, you need to talk to Bill Rauch. And I was like, okay. And then, so two days later, I was on a zoom with Bill Bill, and he started to tell me about the year of work that he had been doing with our dramaturg, Josie and Omari Wiles, who's in the building. And we just started to connect. And I can let you talk about that meeting.

[Bill Rauch]

It was our first conversation, and 90 minutes later, we had agreed that we were going to co direct this production. In our first conversation.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm going to ask you to spill a little tea.

[Christiani Pitts]

Bill,

[Alison Stewart]

who was a. Who was someone who didn't quite believe in your vision. Who did you have trouble convincing that this would be an important show?

[Bill Rauch]

Everybody. I think it was always greeted with curiosity and fear that it might not work. But there was enough encouragement and we just kept believing in it. And the incredible colleagues that we got to work with just kept fueling us to keep moving forward. I would say that the relationship With Andrew Lloyd Webber's company and his colleagues was a wonderful but very twisty road, as you can imagine, because, you know, it's a big deal to ask to not only do a non replica production, but to completely rethink, even sometimes the music.

[Zaylin Levinson]

Yeah, no, I was just gonna say that, like, yes, that has also been my experience. Anytime before we did the show, we would mention it. People would like, in my face be like, okay. Which is strange. But I think too just to say the so many of the cast members that you're gonna see perform have been with the show for so many years and have believed in the vision for so long, even if we didn't know exactly how we were going to reach it. And so even when the outside world was like, what are y' all doing? To have actors who have been so trusting and vulnerable and courageous and rigorous and critical without ever being fearful or doubtful, I think it was a really big ingredient for us pushing through all of the naysaying.

[Alison Stewart]

When did ballroom come into the equation?

[Bill Rauch]

As Shailen mentioned that Josie, our dramaturg, and Omari and I began to work on this during the pandemic. And we knew from the very beginning that it was ballroom. I had thought about, as we talked about earlier, a gay bar, but picking up the libretto again years later, it's clearly set at a ball. It's a competitive ball. It goes all the way through the tsle Awards. It's a once a year ball that happens. Everybody's vying for the grand prize and being able to collaborate with Omari as a ballroom icon. So many of the categories just clicked into place immediately where it was very, very clear. This character, this song, this category. There were others that we worked on for years trying to find, but many of them were apparent from the very beginning.

[Alison Stewart]

We're going to hear another song in just a moment from the show. Zelda, what was a challenge for you in directing this show and how did you get through that challenge?

[Zaylin Levinson]

Oh, I mean, just remembering that challenge is innate to the process. And that, like, challenge is not a sign that you are on the wrong path. That, like, we're making a thing that's hard. And, like, all the way through the process, from workshops to off Broadway to figuring out how do you extend a show like this to transferring to Broadway. Anytime we would come up against a kind of existential wall, we would always remind ourselves that, like, oh, a characteristic of making this show is that it is hard. And so just reminding myself that, you know, for this work, so much of the job is standing in public and failing publicly as quickly as you can to get to the right answer.

[Alison Stewart]

Everybody, let's thank Bill Rauch and Zaylin Levinson. Thank you so much for being with us. We're going to get to another song. Please welcome Nora Shell as Bustopher Jones along with Kendall Grayson, Stroud, Bryson Battle, Darius Wright and Garnett Williams. This is from Katz the Jellicoe ball.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Not skinning bones in fact they're remarkably fat they do not hunt pups they have eight or nine clubs for they're the same to street cats they're the cat we all greet when we walk down the street under coats of the city is black no commonplace mousers have such vocal trousers or such a An impeccable Back in the hall of sweet James is the smartest of names is the name of this provost of cast and where all of us bow to be nodded or bow to my boss Upper Jones and white Spoiler. My visits are occasional to the senior educational and it is against the rules for any one cat to belong baith to that and the joint superior schools for a similar reason. When a game is in season I'm found not at foxes but beams. I am frequently seen at the gay stage and screen which is famous for winkles and shrimps in the season of medicine I give my benson to a pot hunter Succulent boons and just before noon's Not a moment too soon too dropping for a drink of the drones When I'm seen in a hurry there's probably curry at the siamese or Aberclad.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll hear more of our Broadway on the radio conversation with the cast and creative team behind Broadway's the Jellicle Ball. Stick around. This is all of it. Welcome back to ALL of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's get back into Cats, the Jellicle ball. We're sharing an encore presentation from our recent Broadway on the radio event with the show's cast and crew live from the green space. Let's get back into it with a song from performers and BB Nicole Simpson and Garnett Williams. This is Mavity.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Mavity's a mystery cat. She's called the hidden paw for she is a masterpiece criminal who can defy the law. She's the baffleman of Scotland Yard the flying squads to spare for when they reach the scene of crime.

[Alison Stewart]

McCavities not there.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Okay, walking labels, y'. All.

[Christiani Pitts]

She say she loved me she put me in Chanel.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Call me the devil baby Cause we wearing Prada Macavity Macavity. There's no one like Macavity. She's broken every human law. She breaks the law of gravity. Her powers of levitation will make a faker stare. When you reach the scene of crime, Macavity's not there. You may seek her in the basement. You may look up in the air. But I tell you once and once again, my cavities not the hell, the cavities and ginger cat. She's very tall and thin. You would know her if it's all for her eyes are sunken in her pain. Her brow is deeply lined with thought. Her head is highly domed. Her coat is dusty from neglect. Her whiskers are uncombed. She sways her head from side to side with movements like a snake. And when you think she's half asleep, she's always wide awake. A monster. You may meet her in the by street, you may see her in the square. But when the crime's discovered, then my cavities knot. She's outwardly respectable, I know she cheats at cards, she do. And her footprints are not found in any violence of sky lanyard. And when the lard is lieutenant, the jewel case is rifled. Or when the milk is missing or another peak's been stifled. While the greenhouse glass is broken and the trellis passed prepare. There's the wonder of the flame, the cavities not there. A cat of such deceitfulity. She always had an alibi and one or two to spare. Whatever time the deed took place, My cavity wasn't there. And they say that all the cats whose wicked deeds are widely known. I might mention Mungo Jerry, I might mention Griddle Bona. Are nothing more than agents for the cats. Who all the time just controls the operations like Napoleon. A crime. Cavity, she's a fiend. And Felix a monster of depravity. You may meet her in a by street, you may see her in a world. But when a crime's discovered. Vi cavity vitality. My shoes, my way. Crimes discovered then medical.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Bebe Nicole Simpson. The cast of Cats, the Jellicoe Ball. This is Broadway on the radio. On all of it live from the green space. Let's hear it again for the band. And now please welcome the co choreographers of Cats. Omari Wiles and Arturo Lyons. It is so nice to see you.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Oh, hello. Hello.

[Alison Stewart]

So I read that you were born in Senegal.

[Omari Wiles]

Yes, I was.

[Alison Stewart]

And you took African dance when you were six years old?

[Omari Wiles]

Yes. My mom and dad are known African dance teachers and drummers, musicians. Baba Olukoshe Wiles and Marie Bas Wiles.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm glad you said their names. How did your early experience prepare you for ballroom?

[Omari Wiles]

Well, African dance is theatrical. African dance is almost like a Broadway show. All the layers of music, singing, dance, theater, the storytelling. It's all layered within itself. So I felt like I grew up already on stage. I was pretty much born on stage.

[Alison Stewart]

Artur, your dance credits run deep. You helped launch HBO's Vogue competition. Legendary. How did you meet Amari?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

I met Amari in Senegal. I'm lying online. Borum. Yeah. Legendary ballroom. I know Amari for 20 years now.

[Alison Stewart]

For real? For a long time.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

A long time.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll talk later. Amari, we're gonna talk about Arturo. Like, he's not there. Why did you know he was the. Why did you know he was the right person to help you on this project?

[Omari Wiles]

Well, honestly, he was my Jellicoe choice from the beginning. Arturo's mind, Arturo's engineering, Arturo's heart and love and passion for dance and creativity, it really stood out for itself. Joining the boreham scene. He was already a legend and someone that I admired when I saw hit the floor competing and then being invited by him to do various projects, dance videos that he would be. That he would choreograph, really just kept me on the right path of being a professional dancer, but also being a passionate dancer. And through his passion grew my passion, and I would not have picked anyone else to take this journey with. He has helped me grow. He has helped this show grow. He literally tells me yes and no to what you know. And you need someone that's going to be honest with you. You need someone that's going to encourage you. But also, we work so well together, and the energy that we bring together, I mean, it's a dynamic duo. You cannot split us apart.

[Alison Stewart]

Arturo, what did you learn about Broadway now that you've been on Broadway?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

It's very strict. It's strict.

[Alison Stewart]

Tell me more.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

So, you know, in ballroom, we have rules, but it's very lax about it. They don't play that here. You need to be on time.

[Andre De Shields]

You need to know your cues. You need to know the terminology.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

You need to know how to read music. It's a lot, but it's great.

[Alison Stewart]

In the show, you mix ballroom with Broadway. How did that shape the choreography?

[Omari Wiles]

Well, honestly, when you think of ballroom and you think of the theatrics and the whimsical energy that we bring, it goes hand in hand with Broadway. And I think the energy on stage is to perform, right? It's to entertain, and both worlds go hand in hand with that. So it was really, honestly, besides understanding the difference in the music, it was really easy to understand the character and what we wanted to represent as far as ballroom, as far as musical theater, how we wanted to approach the choreography. But not just the choreography, but also just the energy of each piece and each number to the point where you don't need to see the choreography, you don't need to see them in costume. You can just feel it in their voices that they're being ballroom and that at the same time, they're enjoying musical theater.

[Christiani Pitts]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Arturo. Each song gets its own competition category. Can you explain how you adapted that from ballroom culture for Broadway?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Yes, because each. Each character has their own personality, and in ballroom, each category will have their own personality. Like, for instance, Tuggar. He wouldn't necessarily be a vulgar or vogue femme because realness is something that's more masculine presenting. So he would be realness. That's his category in the show. So it would be something masculine as something like tug. I mean, something like the tag team would be evoking category, something more feminine, something more sneaky, more cunning, more catty.

[Alison Stewart]

Cats is a super athletic show, but it also has reverence for age and wisdom. The elder cats and the house mothers received a great deal of respect in the show, and the show was willing to take its time. How did you go about balancing the death drops with the reverence for experience?

[Omari Wiles]

Well, we didn't want anyone to die, clearly, so those death drops had to be out of the show. And we call them. And we call them dips. And. And. And the dips were. Honestly, it depend. It depended on the category that you walked. Not everyone needs to dip, and, you know. And not everyone needs to vogue in ballroom. You have to find what category is for you. And I think that speaks to how human each character is and how human the ballroom scene is. We find what is your. Your skill set, your trait, your talent, and we heighten that up through competition, through sportsmanship. We level each other up because of all the shade that was received from society. We decided we'll turn that shade around. Right. And how do we turn shade into friendly competition? How do we turn shade into allowing us to see our own growth and our own special or how special we are. Right. In that sense. So with the choreography, with the age, it was really paying homage to our elders. I mean, coming from Senegal and from West Africa, ancestry elders is so important. And being able to honor our elders is a big thing that we do. And I Think in black culture. And it's really important, too, to respect our elders. So it wasn't saying, oh, you can't do this. It was saying, no, you're seasoned and you do this this way. Right, right. And it was that type of energy, that type of love that the entire cast shows, and type of respect as well, too, that the cast shows to the elders. I mean, they are the ones who started, they are the ones who threw the first brick. They are the ones who really helped understand or help the young ones understand who they are, where they come from and how to love.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes. Clap for that. All right, Arturo, someone's seen Cats and they really want to get into ballroom. Where should they go in New York?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

I would say OTA first.

[Omari Wiles]

Yes. There's a Vogue Club in Brooklyn. OTA.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Three dollar bill.

[Omari Wiles]

It's that $3 bill every other Monday. I think now they have it. It used to be every Monday, but I think it's every other Monday. Now you can go there and you can experience a taste of ballroom a little bit. A little salmon paste, a little taste of ballroom. Right. You get to taste that. But there's so many balls that are going on around the world, not only in the States, but you can go depending on where you are. You can be in Spain, you can be in Paris.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

You can come to my ball in Paris on September 19th.

[Omari Wiles]

Yes. Arturo's having a ball in Paris.

[Alison Stewart]

That's an invitation. I've just heard one.

[Omari Wiles]

But, you know, there's so many buzzers happening. A lot of people who didn't know about ballroom always came to the latex ball held by the organization GMHC August 22nd. And that's August 22nd going to be at Terminal. Who knows, right? There's a lot of access now. Ballroom is no longer underground because this is a community that needs to be seen. This is a community that needs to be spoken of and be celebrated. And so now the doors are open for you to see again how human we are and just how talented these individuals are. But a ball, honey, you can go to the pier on Christopher street on that green turf and see a ball happen, okay? And that's what I remember growing up. I remember going to the pier and there were balls that were happening, and we would do. Grand prize was a movie ticket, or grand prize was $1. You know, say a grand prize was come with me to get you a slice of pizza.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

A long time ago.

[Omari Wiles]

A long time ago. But now the grand prizes are a little bit more, you know, now you're giving $10,000 away. You're giving $5,000 away. But it's because of the competition has gotten so fierce. So fierce. It has gotten bigger. But it's also, I think, the need to celebrate someone, to give someone a grand prize so that they can take that and accept excel within their self and with their craft, but within their life, really.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll hear more of our Broadway on the radio conversation with the cast and creative team behind the Broadway musical the Jellicle Ball. This is all of it. This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's get back into our Broadway on the radio conversation with the team behind Cat the Jellicle Ball. In our last portion, we heard from the incomparable Andre de Shields, who plays old Deuteronomy. But first we'll hear the show's most iconic song. Here's Tempest Chastity Moore with Teddy Wilson Jr. And Darius Wright performing Memorial Sam.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

A sunflower and a rose that is fading Roses wither away like the sunflower I yearn to turn my face to the dark I am waiting for the day. Now Old Deuteronomy just before dawn through a silence you feel you can cut with a knife announces the cat who can now be reborn and come back

[Omari Wiles]

to a different Jellicoe.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Life. Memory Turn your face to the moonlight Let your memory need you open up Interim if you find there the meaning of what happiness is Then a new life will begin Memory all alone in the moon Alight I can smile at the old days I was beautiful then I remember the time I knew what happiness was Let the memory live again Burnt out in the smoky days the stale cold savant of morning the street lamp dies Another night over another day is dawning Daylight I must wait for the sunrise I must think of a new life and I mustn't give it when the dawn comes tonight will be a memory too and a new day will begin. Sunlight through the trees and summer and last night. Like a flower as the darkness breaking the memory is fading. Touch me it's so easy to leave me all alone with the memory of my days in the sky if you touch me you'll understand whatever. Look a new day has begun.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Temperance Chastity Moore from TA Chastity. That is probably one of the most famous songs sung on Broadway. What do you think when you are singing that song?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

I always say that that song has a lot of pain and comfort. Like I'm. I've been here for a half a century and I remember the times where there was things not happening to my body. And I remember the good times, you know, so I'm remembering the good times and things that I once regretted that now make sense. So it's a lot of pain and comfort. I try to just make everyone else remember their happy times in that time.

[Christiani Pitts]

We're making a little bit of noise

[Alison Stewart]

over here because we are joined by Andre de Shields, everybody. I remember seeing you in the Wiz when I was a little girl.

[Andre De Shields]

You're not that old.

[Alison Stewart]

I am that old, but that's another story. You were on Broadway long before cats started in 81, when you heard that it was coming back and they were using ballroom. Why did you want to be part of it?

[Andre De Shields]

I wanted to be part of it because my formative years are the 60s. My very first professional show was Hair. That was another attempt at mixing generations that had been so far apart for so long. And now right here beats the heart of an unreconstructed hippie. So I am constantly looking for the next revolution because I want to be on the front lines. It's not about spilling blood or anything like that, but when there's an intersection, such as the first 25 years of the 21st century has presented with us, this intersection between history and evolution. And finally, the change that's been sitting on the horizon, the paradigm that says, come, it's my turn. Let me in. The power of the feminine. There's now a generation of people who have been traditionally marginalized to the edges of society who can do exactly that.

[Christiani Pitts]

Nice.

[Alison Stewart]

You play Old Deuteronomy.

[Andre De Shields]

Old Deuteronomy.

[Alison Stewart]

What is his role in the production? The way you play him,

[Andre De Shields]

The leader, The progenitor of. All the cats that you will meet through your entire life have come from my thighs. Old Deuteronomy is also the connection between the microcosm and the macrocosm. He's not a God per se, but he is the overlord of these unusual creatures, each of whom has, at a minimum, nine lives.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. For Grizabella, glamour takes on a new meaning. What does glamour mean to her?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Well, I mean, in the ballroom aspect, you have the woman.

[Mikayla J. Rodriguez]

The women of trans experience who came before me were just very glamorous.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

We call them femme queens. And so here she's a glamour girl. Like, she's like. They always show up and show out, you know, that a glamour, you know, a femme queen is in the building when the femme queen is in the building because she's just extra and she's just glamorous. And this, you know, she's holding onto things that she had before when she once felt more glamorous. But in her mind, she's still glamorous. So glamorous just shows up as confidence and pride in who you are and being your full self. And that's how it shows up here.

[Alison Stewart]

Andre, we're going to hear the addressing of Cats, the grand finale. What does this song mean to you?

[Andre De Shields]

It was an education. Now, I had seen several versions of Cats because for many years I knew the person who was playing old Deuteronomy. As a matter of fact, the original Old Deuteronomy on Broadway was Ken Page, a lovely friend of mine who's now in his own version of the Heaviside Layer. I investigated his title because if you know the first books of the holy Scripture, Deuteronomy is the last. And it is when the second time the law is delivered. So I take on that special. Activity with this group of people. I've come back to lead the Jellicoe Ball so that another person, another cat can be chosen to experience what I know.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear the addressing of Cats with Andre de Shields and the cast of Cats.

[Andre De Shields]

You've heard of several kinds of cat, and my opinion now is that you should need no interpretation to understand our character. You've learned enough to take the view that cats are very much like you. You've seen us both at work and games. You've learned about our proper names, our habits and our habitat. But how would you address a cat?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

So first your memory out, dog and

[Andre De Shields]

say a cat is not a dog. With cats, some say one rule is true. Don't speak till you are spoken.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

To.

[Andre De Shields]

Myself I do not hold with that. I say you should address a cat, but always keep in mind that she resents familiarity. You bow and taking of your heart. Address him in this form, O cat, with condescend and treat you as a trusted friend. A little token of esteem is needed like a dish of cream. And you might now and then supply some caviar or or stalber pie, some

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

potted grouse or salmon paste.

[Andre De Shields]

He's sure to have a personal taste. And so in time you reach your aim and call him by his name.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Title to expect these.

[Alison Stewart]

That was the cast of Cats, the Jellicoe Ball, including the incomparable Andre de Shields and Temperance Chastity Moore. You can watch video from the full Broadway on the radio [e-mail] all of it and get updates on our upcoming live schedule, including a Broadway on the Radio treatment for the Outsiders. That's next Thursday. At noon in Soho. Again, more information and [e-mail] all of it after the break. More Broadway conversations ahead of the Tony Awards this weekend. We'll talk to some of the people behind Rocky Horror and Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. That's coming up after the news. This is ALL of it. I'm Alice and Stewart. Welcome back to the show. I'm grateful you're joining us ahead of Tony's weekend. To celebrate, we're sending you into the weekend with some of Broadway's hottest musicals right now. Last hour we talked with some of the people behind Cat's the Jellicle Ball. And if you time warp to the end of the show, you'll get to hear my conversation with Rocky Horror director Sam Pinkleton and the show's onstage narrator, Rachel Dratch, as well as Amber Gray, the show's riff raff, Michaela J. Rodriguez as Columbia and Stephanie Hsu, who plays Janet. But first, two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. The show is nominated in eight categories at this year's Tonys, including best Musical, best direction of a musical for Tim Jackson and individual best performance nominations for both of its leads, Sam Tutty and Cristiani Pittsburgh. Here's my conversation with the two of them. Robyn is a young woman from Brooklyn who used to dream big, but now she feels stuck in her life as a barista, struggling to get by. She has a strained relationship with her sister who's getting married to a very wealthy man and she hasn't spoken to her grandma in a long time. Robin is played by Christiani Pitts, but Robyn is in for a surprise when she meets energetic Dougal fresh off the plane from the uk. He's played by Olivier Award winning Sam Tutty. Robin is in charge of picking him up from the airport. Dougal is very, very excited to be in New York. He wants to eat hot dogs and see the Statue of Liberty. He also wants to meet his dad for the very first time. At the wedding. Dougal's father is marrying Robin's sister. He left the family before Dougal was born. At first, Robyn wants really not a lot to do with old, eager Dougal, but she reluctantly agrees to let her help him pick up her sister's wedding cake and the two begin a journey around the city that will leave them both changed forever. The New York Times says the show quote, delivers lavishly on the promise of a rom com, laughter, escape and fantasy. Today we're in for a special treat. Stars Sam Tutty and Christiani Pitts join Me in studio to perform songs live on the air. But first we want to get to know them a little bit. Hi, guys. Hi.

[Sam Tutty]

Hello.

[Alison Stewart]

We're so happy to have you here.

[Sam Tutty]

Thank you for having us.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, so the blizzard on Sunday caused many Broadway shows to cancel their evening. But you had a 3pm matinee. I was there. We all had our hats on. Everybody was bundled up. Sam, what was your experience with the near snow day almost show on the show?

[Sam Tutty]

It was interesting. I thought it really lovely because I think the benefit of doing a two hander is that your relationship with the audience is so, so personal. So you can really see that. I really felt this sort of energy of like, we're all in this, we're all out in public right now when imminently a snowstorm could potentially hit us, like record breaking snowstorm. So let's have fun. Let's. Let's see what we can do. You know, it's really, really fun to like have that relationship with the audience and to be that sort of like camaraderie that we have. It was really nice.

[Alison Stewart]

Could you tell a difference, Cristiani?

[Christiani Pitts]

Oh, definitely, Definitely. There was a. You said it best. He's like, I think people out there are a little scared.

[Mikayla J. Rodriguez]

You know what I mean?

[Christiani Pitts]

Like, knowing like, what are we about to go outside?

[Sam Tutty]

Am I gonna step outside and just see a wall of snow in a

[Christiani Pitts]

face with a blizzard? So I could definitely feel the difference. But it was nice that people took the time to come hang out with us before it all happened.

[Alison Stewart]

And before we go any further, you have an announcement to make about the cast album.

[Sam Tutty]

Oh, yes. Yes, we do. Yes. Releasing 20th Hooray.

[Christiani Pitts]

Original Broadway cast album.

[Sam Tutty]

Very fun, very fun, very exciting.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you record it?

[Sam Tutty]

Oh, my gosh, weeks, months, years, maybe decades, who knows? It was, it was a few months ago. I think it was like, I would say just over a month ago because, yeah, it was really fun. We were doing sessions in the morning and then shows in the evening. So it was like a really. I remember it well. It was very, very much like a marathon session of singing.

[Alison Stewart]

Christiani, when did you realize that your voices were going to work together? Because you get along famously, but if your voice on a certain level, right?

[Christiani Pitts]

Oh, that's such a good question. I think maybe hearing, you know, to give him his flowers. I heard him sing something by himself and I felt like, oh, if I could just like, we were just actually joking about this offline about. He sings when he's on stage and I'm off and I'm hearing harmonies with his voice that are not even in the show. So maybe it was just like this discovery of just hearing him play the role and then hearing, like, ways in which I could move around it vocally, that maybe that's when it was. That's a great question.

[Alison Stewart]

My guests are the stars of the Broadway musical Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. Christiani Pitts and Sam Tutty are performing live in studio in just a minute. They're performing at the Longacre Theater. So much of the show is about New York. What was it like to play it? Sam, not in New York.

[Sam Tutty]

It's very surreal. Everyone asked me, leading up to, you know, in rehearsals and leading up to opening night, everyone was asking me, me that question. And I never really. I thought, yeah, it's really exciting. It's really cool and really fun. Until, you know, we had that opening night. It's actually. Actually, if I'm being honest, it was the first dress run that we did with invited guests, and people were laughing at jokes that even I, in rehearsals, never considered to be funny. You know, things like, oh, so you're from New York, so you must go up the Empire. The Empire. Statue of Liberty all the time. Empire State all the time. And it's like, no, I don't do that. You know what I mean? And it's like, oh, that is actually quite, you know, in context, really fun. And so I think that was when I got big. I began to feel very excited about this show finally being like, home and where. Where it belongs and for the people who deserve to see it.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Dougal sort of gets his ideas about New York from movies and from songs, but Robyn lives it. It's her real deal living in New York. What are some aspects of Robin's character that are quintessentially those of a New Yorker?

[Christiani Pitts]

I think one of them is living in different parts of the city in her life, so she understands just how expensive it is in a very real way, because she was there before her area was gentrified. She was there. You know, she grew up in Flatbush when it was how it used to be. So she. Her understanding of New York and just how expensive it is is so deep and real that I think a lot of people who have lived here and watched the city change can resonate with. And that almost like disgust isn't the word, but that frustration with, like, it used to be like this and now it's not. And what they have to live with, that, I think, is something a lot of born and raised New Yorkers can, can deal with or can resonate with.

[Alison Stewart]

So, Dougal, Dougal, Sam. What is Dougal.

[Sam Tutty]

There's a thin line. It's a thin line.

[Christiani Pitts]

It's all right.

[Alison Stewart]

No, Sam is over here. Dougal's over here. I'm talking to Sam.

[Sam Tutty]

I'm confused sometimes myself.

[Alison Stewart]

What are you? Dougal's ideas about New York, I think, and they are.

[Sam Tutty]

It's funny, we joke about the name. They are very similar to mine. You know, being from England, you know, my exposure to New York is through the sort of films and TV and, you know, the sort of media that we all consume. And I remember my first time landing, I was 21 for another job. And it completely lived up to every single standard. And I think that's what I maintain in the show is that there is never a single moment of New York is not at the start of the show specifically. It doesn't. It does in no way not live up to Dougal standards. That is completely presented how it is meant to be presented. And that's very exciting for him that it's sort of like he can literally see where parts of a film. And that's exactly what I did, you know. Oh, my God, they filmed that there.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

And then that's the scene where they did this there.

[Sam Tutty]

So those sort of things that are very exciting.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, we're gonna hear you sing about some of those ideas. This is our first song we're gonna hear. It's New York. Anything you want to add before we go into it?

[Sam Tutty]

I hope you enjoy it. It's a very fun song. And if you're, you know, listening, dance along and if you know the words, have a sing along.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Help.

[Sam Tutty]

Help me out.

[Alison Stewart]

This is two strangers carry a cake across New York. This is Sam Tutty perform.

[Christiani Pitts]

So this is where we change for the subway.

[Sam Tutty]

Oh, the subway. Love it.

[Mikayla J. Rodriguez]

You love the subway?

[Alison Stewart]

Love it.

[Sam Tutty]

New York's kind of my second home, you know.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

New York City.

[Christiani Pitts]

Is that right?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Yeah.

[Sam Tutty]

The Empire State, the White House, the Golden Gate Bridge.

[Christiani Pitts]

The Golden Gate is in.

[Sam Tutty]

It's the capital city of the usa.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

It's not the city I swore I would see for myself one day.

[Christiani Pitts]

But you've actually been to New York before?

[Sam Tutty]

Yes. No, but I have seen Home Alone 2 quite a few times.

[Rachel Dratch]

Are you serious?

[Sam Tutty]

There's pizza for breakfast.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

There's steam in the air. It's candy, not sweets. And the streets are called sidewalks there. My town where everyone has an apartment to spare With a skyline view where even improbable Dreams come true where everything comes with a smarter high five and a side or of cheese I'm down on my knees that's our train. New York I'm already talking the talking New York I'm already popping the cork Cause I'm ready I'm ready to be in New York and they ready Are they ready for me in New York? Is that Times Square?

[Christiani Pitts]

Nope, that's Queens.

[Sam Tutty]

Awesome.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Just called the Big Apple no one knows why but she's my kind of town and I'm her kind of street smart guy I'll stroll up the Broadway, I'll order a beer I'll scream at the Statue of Liberty hey lady, I'm walking here my home the city of stories where everything's 70 stories high where everyone kisses their blues goodbye this cinema city I've waited the whole of my life to see you thought darker than me New York I'm already talking the talking New York I'm already popping the clock Cause I'm ready I'm ready to be in New York and they're ready Are you ready for me in New York?

[Christiani Pitts]

I'm just gonna stand over here.

[Bill Rauch]

Sure.

[Sam Tutty]

It's a city of angels, it's a city of sin It's a city of immigrants Buddy.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

I'll fit right in the land of the brave the home of the free the Liberty city Where even my father wants to hang out with me Home the snow in the city tomorrow to see it come twinkling down and that's why they all call it tinsel town. There's hundreds and thousands of people Just living to dream out there. Love in the air.

[Christiani Pitts]

Okay, we're about to get off the train. Then we're going to be in New York.

[Sam Tutty]

Yes.

[Christiani Pitts]

You're not going to freak out?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

No. New York I'm already talking to talking New York I'm already bombing the cork cuz I'm ready I'm ready to be in New York and they ready Are they ready? Ready for me in New York for two whole days I'll l be in New York M KFB I C A C I'm already talking the talking I'm ready I'm ready to be in New York. Yes I'm ready Is it ready for me? Are they ready for me? Are you ready for me in New York? Woo.

[Alison Stewart]

We're gonna clap. We're just gonna clap for that one. That was Sam Tutty and Christiana Pitts. They're performing from two strangers. Carry a cake across New York. Let's talk about the dreams in this show. The dreams in this show are so. They just. They really touch you. When you least expect it, you're laughing, and then all of a sudden, something grabs you. What are Robyn's hopes and her dreams for herself when we first meet her? What does she really want out of life that maybe she doesn't know yet?

[Christiani Pitts]

Well, that's actually the thing is she doesn't know. She desires what she used to feel when she was a child, which is just utter happiness, comfort, safety, love, those things that she felt growing up with her grandma and her sister. And she doesn't realize that that's what she's missing, that feeling of happiness. So when we meet Robyn, she has no idea what she wants. She just knows that she's stuck. And she meets this lovely person who reintroduces the idea of joy and optimism and hope. And I do think that one thing Robyn does have is hope, but it's just bubbling under the surface. So her dream is to just be okay again. And I think it's, you know, it's a big dream to have, even though it doesn't seem like it.

[Alison Stewart]

So Dougal's a dedicated optimist, as opposed to Robin is. We'll call her pragmatic in this case. Sam.

[Rachel Dratch]

How do they.

[Alison Stewart]

How do those two. How do they create a fun dynamic on stage?

[Sam Tutty]

Well, I think it's the sort of. I think, you know, the light and the dark and the optimism and the realism and the humor and the tragedy. They both. They are both so close together, like in real life. But what Cristiani's done masterfully is find so much humor within Robin's sort of pragmatism. As you mentioned, there is so many tiny looks and just micro beat that changes the color of the conversation. That really, really helps. Just, I don't know, keep. Keep it light, but also keep it very real. Because I think if it was funny, though, all the time, it's just like, okay, can we have some actual material here, please, that we can work on as an audience, you know? And then obviously, that works the other way as well. So I think. Yeah, I think definitely it's a testament to Cristiani's acting as well. That really, really glues us together.

[Alison Stewart]

The next song we're gonna hear is about Robyn's New York roots. It's called this Is the Place. What's going on with Robyn? When we hear this song, she's going

[Christiani Pitts]

to pick up the cake that her sister has sent her on a mission to get. And it just so happens that this cake is in the neighborhood close to where she grew up. And she hasn't been there in a while. So she's back. And she's back out in that childhood place I was just talking about. And all these memories start flooding in. And she's excited to show this person who hasn't seen. He hasn't heard about Flatbush. You know what I mean? He doesn't know that. So she's excited to like, show him her. Her New York. And so she's just taking him on a bit of a journey.

[Alison Stewart]

This is Christiani Pitts performing this is the Place from the Broadway musical Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York.

[Christiani Pitts]

This is the place. This is the preschool where we used to go. These are the streets. These are the dollar vans and delis that I used to know. This is the church where everyone knew me by name. This is the place where nothing changes and where nothing is ever the same. You want to take a detour?

[Sam Tutty]

What about the cake?

[Christiani Pitts]

This way. Come on.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

This is the street. What street?

[Christiani Pitts]

This is the block where you can pick up whatever you need. $10 shoes, fake nails, a broken record

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

player, Cuban quesadillas and trees. I used to ride my bike around this neighborhood. I never thought I'd run out of space.

[Christiani Pitts]

And the cats and the bodegas, the kids on every corner playing pickup and graffiti on a sleep subway, baby. This is the place.

[Sam Tutty]

Wait, I know this place.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

This is the street from the beginning of Ghostbusters 2. I don't know. Maybe this is the scene we see Sir Gunny Weaver stepping psycho magnatherical goo. I can't believe it. Right over there. That's Brooklyn Public Library. My grandma used to take us to read. And the sounds along the avenue. The lights in the every window. If you're looking for the beating heart

[Christiani Pitts]

of Brooklyn, baby, this is the place.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

And you actually lived here for 20

[Christiani Pitts]

years in a tiny little apartment. My grandma, my sister, and me.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

And this still counts as real New York.

[Christiani Pitts]

This is Brooklyn, man. This is the only park that's real.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

This is the place where you can come and watch the city on Saturday night. This is the place that pizzeria makes the the greatest white slice in South Town Heights. Hundreds of cabs fly by into Manhattan. Hundreds of trains roll down to Coney Island. Thousands of planes fly out. And never find whatever parallels they're trying to chase.

[Christiani Pitts]

This is the place.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Yay. Yay.

[Alison Stewart]

Sam, when have you had to sort of lean on Cristiani?

[Sam Tutty]

Every single waking second. I'm on stage every single minute. There are so many Times where we have a conversation with each other, just with our eyes, you know, like on stage, where it's like, listen, I'm struggling right now. Energy wise, vocally wise. Can you just, like, just put the foot on the gas on your side, Just like, just help me out, you know, things like that. But, yeah, like, literally every single second I'm on stage, without a shadow of a doubt.

[Alison Stewart]

How about for you?

[Christiani Pitts]

Same. Yeah, same. But I. One of my favorite things about Sam is. I was saying this the other day, is that he's so good about the world of the show that we're in, like, staying truth to the world and doing subtle things that maybe the audience doesn't even catch better. That reflective of, like, where we're at. So if he's walking to the turnstiles of a subway, he's, like, manipulating his body to, like, awkwardly get. You know what I mean? Like, just doing something so silly and so small that completely reminds you that, like, oh, yeah, there are 50 other people here on the subway car. You know what I mean? On a subway car. There are just little things like that. That to me, it helps. It grounds my show. It keeps me laughing. It keeps it alive between two people. And it doesn't make us forget that the audience is there. But it definitely does put us in a vacuum so that we can just really play off each other, which I then think brings out more show to you guys. But if you ever see the show again, look at these little things. It is so funny.

[Sam Tutty]

See if against the bottom.

[Christiani Pitts]

Oh, that turnstile gets me every time. It's ridiculous. It's honestly ridiculous.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you like having the band on stage behind you?

[Christiani Pitts]

I love it. I love it. If I could actually shout out our fabulous md, Ted is brilliant. And there are moments in the show where we reference people who are not on stage. And Ted, it's a bit. He will pretend to be those people. He is not lit. No one can see him. It's just for us. But he's got. The other day he had props full. Being the person on the other, it just. It's hilarious. But again, it's that same thing of, like, as long as we're passing good energy from the band to the. It just. It just pushes out into the audience in such a real way.

[Sam Tutty]

It's the, like, the morale of it all, you know, like, really maintaining a great morale so everyone can enjoy the show. They're like, why? Why am I enjoying this so much? And it's because we are as well.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, it's such A fun show, but there is a serious side to it. Dougal's never met his dad. You know, he really wants to meet his dad. Why doesn't he have more questions about his dad and where his dad's been?

[Sam Tutty]

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question, and it's one that I don't particularly have a definitive answer to. I suppose, if anything, it's his just general attitude on life. He himself has not completely struggled without him. There's just been this sort of reverence to him and how successful he is, and he's never met him anyway, so it looks like no hate, no hard feelings. Until Robin perhaps introduces an idea that there could be some hard feelings and that he, Dougal, is worth more than what he's allowing himself. And that. And then when you spent an hour, you know, in act one, making people laugh, that sort of, like, u turn, like, what you're actually seeing is a deeply sad person. It's so, as an actor, taking away all the. It's so fun to play. Like that is like the chewiest, fattiest, like, oh, my God. And the choices you can make are endless. It's just. And that's a testament to the writing. Kit Buck and Jim Barnes and now director Tim Jackson, they have just created something so fun for actors that we can do this eight times a week because it is so interesting and so fun and so dense. Like, the spectrum of emotion in this show is so fun to play. So it just means that we can show up to work. We aren't bored. We aren't, like, you know, embarrassed to go out there. It's just a complete pride in our work. Yeah, it's really fun.

[Alison Stewart]

I don't want to give too much away, but Robyn has a strained relationship with her family members. How has she been handling this in her life?

[Christiani Pitts]

She's kind of shut down from everyone, and she has not communicated with people. She's kind of been hiding a little bit and just kind of going to work. And it's amazing because some of these family members are the exact people she should turn to to help her in this time. But shame is a hell of a thing, and it really keeps her. I think hiding is how she's choosing to deal, which is why someone who is not hiding anything is so overwhelming to endure, because you're like, I just don't want to be seen. I just don't want to be seen. I don't want to be seen. And here he is.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, we're gonna set up our next song. Which is American Express. And this is a point when we see Robin making a really potentially reckless decision. Will you set this up for us?

[Christiani Pitts]

Absolutely. And you take over. If you think, okay, I got more here. But, yes. Robin gets access to a credit card that is not her own. And she's a metal one, shall we say.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Yeah, very fun stuff.

[Christiani Pitts]

You know, the one with the big bucks. And she decides to show Dougal a part of New York that she doesn't even have access to, that she only sees in the movies. And she does just that.

[Sam Tutty]

Yeah. So. And by that respect, we're now. Dougal and Robin are now finally on an even playing field. You know, it's all anew, it's all fair game. Who knows what's gonna happen? Even Robin doesn't know the sort of, you know, ringleader of this New York City. Yeah. And we're very excited to sing it.

[Alison Stewart]

This is Christiani Pitts and Sam Tutty with American Express from the musical. Two Strangers Carry a cake across New York.

[Christiani Pitts]

We're buying this tux.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

We're buying this tux. It's 3,000 bucks.

[Christiani Pitts]

Your attitude sucks. We're buying this tux.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

We're buying this time we're buying success. Hell, yes. Now swallow your pride. I'll swallow my pride. I'm. I'm Bonnie Clyde. Ya, Bonnie. I'm Clyde. We're gonna be inching a ride on the American Express Strolling down the avenue together Dressed in shoes of alligator leather Swapping sparkle marks about the weather do you think it's going to snow? I think we make it rain.

[Christiani Pitts]

Now that we've successfully defrauded now that we.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

We can suddenly afford it New York City is in such a sordid town Putting on the glitz, putting on the

[Sam Tutty]

spritz yeah, we'll take a bottle.

[Sam Pinkleton]

Thank you.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Sprinkling a little bit of glitter on my.

[Christiani Pitts]

We're grabbing a cap.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Exy, we're having a crab. Waiter, it's on the tap. It's on the tap. It's on the tap. Cruising, doozing up the Rockefeller Healing Sweet and swelling cinematic. That's the finest liquor in the cellar. May I see some id? Are you flirting with me? One more round of lobster cappuccino.

[Christiani Pitts]

Excuse me while I Instagram the vino.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

New York City isn't such a mean old town. Where am I? Just stick by my side. I stick by your side.

[Christiani Pitts]

I'm Bonnie o'.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Clyde. Wait a second, wait a second. Which one's Bonnie and which ones collide? We're gonna be hitchin A ride on the American Express Dash break. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get it. Let's get it.

[Sam Tutty]

And we're really dancing in the studio right now.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Let's go. I'm dancing. I'm dancing. Let's go.

[Sam Tutty]

Ah, pity the rich.

[Christiani Pitts]

Wait, you pity the rich.

[Sam Tutty]

They'll never know what it's like to

[Christiani Pitts]

go to a laundromat.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

To only be rich. To only be rich for one magical night. Magical night. I'm buying those stars. I'm buying that moon. I'm buying these stars. I've stolen this spoon.

[Christiani Pitts]

I'm sweating my soul and buying this whole impossible mess.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Where now?

[Christiani Pitts]

The Plaza Hotel.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Just follow my stride. Follow your, follow your stride. I'm Bonnie. I'm Bonnie. I'm Bonnie, you're Clyde. We're gonna be itching our ride on the American American on the American Express.

[Christiani Pitts]

Penthouse.

[Alison Stewart]

Sweet.

[Christiani Pitts]

Please.

[Alison Stewart]

That was sam tuddy and christiani pittsburgh with a live in studio performance of if I believe from two strangers carry a cake across new york. We'll have more Broadway to help send you into Tony's weekend. Coming up, director Sam Pinkleton talks about the revival of Rocky Horror along with actor Rachel Dratch. This is Olivet. This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. The Tony Awards are this weekend. So our whole show today we're talking about some of the year's hottest Broadway musicals. We just heard from the stars of Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. It's a new show. Now we'll turn to an iconic revival, the Rocky Horror Show. It's nominated in nine categories at this year's Tonys, including best revival of a musical, best choreography, costumes, lighting, sound and scenic design. Plus best performance nominations for Luke Evans, who plays Dr. Frank N. Furter, Stephanie Hsu, who plays Janet, and Rachel Dratch, who plays the on stage narrator. I started by asking Sam Pinkleton to describe his first encounters with Rocky Horror.

[Sam Pinkleton]

I saw Rocky Horror in my early 20s and was so angry that I hadn't seen it earlier because I thought if I had seen this when I was 15, it would have solved a lot of big problems that I was thinking about at the time.

[Alison Stewart]

When was the first time you saw it?

[Rachel Dratch]

I was in junior high. I went with a friend. We put on, like, what we thought was punk makeup, you know, And I just. I think I was intrigued because it was just like, for me watching earliest, and I was like, I don't quite know what's happening here, but I'm like, really into this.

[Christiani Pitts]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. You've been on Broadway before in potus. You were great in potus. Hilarious farce. But it's a very different kind of role being the narrator. How did you see the possibilities for the narrator?

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Ooh.

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, Sam and I worked a lot on. We had many, many conversations about what the narrator should be in this. And we didn't know how much the audience was gonna be yelling things like how many comments I'd be fielding all that. So I don't know. Sam had this great analogy that I was sort of the, like, messed up stage manager from our town. Although he didn't say messed up, but, you know, and I loved that I'm sort of your guide, but I'm like, you know, I'm sort of observing this freaky weirdness, but then I'm sort of a part of it too. So it was a discovery.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think, Sam? What did you think? Why did you think the role was so pivotal to have a narrator?

[Sam Pinkleton]

Well, the thing about the Rocky Horror show, especially on Broadway at Studio 54, is that every night it is completely different. I bet it is completely different. And that is the joy of it. And so there's a lot of stuff that we could figure out in rehearsal. And I do feel like Rachel and I kind of created this together in a really joyous way. But part of the fun of the narrator is hosting the audience every night and responding live to whatever is being thrown at them. And Rachel has this incredibly singular way. If I may compliment you while you sit next to me. Thank you of doing that with, like a dryness and an economy that is so funny and so simple. And, you know, it's why I don't get tired of watching the show because I have no idea what is gonna come out of your mouth next.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so interesting because when Dick Cavett played the role, like, 25 years ago, they sort of leaned into his talents in a way. Rachel, why do you. What? In what way do they lean into your particular talents?

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, you know, I saw the Dick Cavett performance, and I mean, he was amazing. That whole production was. But I heard that he did. I only saw one time, but I heard that he did a lot of his own kind of stand up materials. And that's not me, really. So I don't know. I mean, I think the fun of it is playing with the audience, letting them know that it's okay to yell things out and that we're enjoying that. Like, there was a lot of talk when this was all boiling over. Like. Like, are they gonna yell?

[Christiani Pitts]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Discourse. Are they gonna yell? Yes, people are yelling things out, and we welcome it. It's fun. And so I guess what I'm bringing is, like, yes, yell things out. Let's play with each other, me and the audience. And also, like he said, hosting the party.

[Sam Pinkleton]

And you have an amazing sense of, like, reminding us constantly that we're all in the room together. And that's so much fun.

[Alison Stewart]

It's also your improv skills really come to play.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah. So I started out in improv back at Second City in Chicago. And so, I mean, that was more like scenes and stuff with other people. But we had our occasional improvising with the audience type of scene. So, yeah, it sort of draws on that.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to a little bit. This is Rachel Dratch as the narrator in Rocky Horror Show.

[Rachel Dratch]

I would like, if I may, to take you on a strange journey. It seemed a fairly ordinary night when Brad Majors and his fiance, Janet Weiss, two young, ordinary, healthy kids, left Denton that late November evening to visit a Dr. Everett Scott, ex tutor and now friend to both of them. It's true there are dark storm clouds, heavy, black and pendulous, toward which they were driving. It's true. Also, the spare tire they were carrying was badly in need of some air. But they, being normal kids and on a night out, well, they were not going to let a storm spoil the events of their evening on a night out. It was a night out they were to remember for a very long

[Stephanie Hsu]

time.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Rachel Dratch as the narrator in the Rocky Horror Show. I'm talking to director Sam Pinkleton and Rachel Dratch. How did you prepare for the call outs? You knew they were gonna be coming. You couldn't necessarily practice it in rehearsal. How has it evolved?

[Sam Pinkleton]

It is the amazing thing about previews. You know, we had four weeks of previews, and we did. We anticipated some things in rehearsal. We invited the New York City Shadow cast to come to rehearsal and yell at us one day, which was joyous and sobering. And then, I mean, you know, from the beginning, it was about figuring out, like, okay, what's gonna happen a lot? What. What do we do when there's, like, total curveballs? Because there's a lot of call outs that are kind of classic call outs that, like, you know, there's 10 things that kind of everyone knows. But sometimes people show up and they're like, this is a call out that we only do at my theater in New Jersey once a year. And, you know, Rachel has very smartly found ways to kind of embrace surprises without, like, letting the whole thing fall apart. Because it is this very distinct thing of like, we're all in a room together with live humans. We're not yelling at a movie screen. And the call outs are just like an amazing part of the Rocky Horror culture that's embedded in.

[Rachel Dratch]

It's also, like a much bigger space than I think when people go to shout at Rocky Horror. So sometimes, you know, it's kind of fun because people get to yell in this giant space. And so I think they're kind of just delighted that someone on stage is like, looking at the direction where they yelled at, you know, making an interaction with them. So that I think that adds an element that you wouldn't find in just a regular show.

[Alison Stewart]

What has been the strangest thing someone has yelled thus far?

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, that would need the beep. Yeah, a couple of them.

[Sam Pinkleton]

Many need the beep. Hold that beep down and we can tell you all of them.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah, there was a pretty shocking one a few weeks ago, but I guess that made me ready for anything.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, that's amazing. We'll discuss it during the break.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. Or will we? Okay, sorry, go ahead.

[Alison Stewart]

It was really interesting. I had a theater writer on the show and she talked about the downtownification of Broadway between O Mary and Titanique and Rocky Horror. She mentioned, first of all, do you agree with that sort of posing that the downtownification of Broadway and is that a good thing?

[Sam Pinkleton]

I am really bad at answering that question because I'm inside of my body and I work in a lot of different places. I do think that the rewarding of riskifying of Broadway is a real thing. And I do think that. I hope that the success of Omar is empowering to all weirdos. Making things in basements right now, if we had made that thinking it was gonna be on Broadway, it would have probably been rotten. But risk was rewarded. And in the case of making Rocky Horror, risk has been rewarded. So I don't. I think it's unfair to downtown to be like, well, that's downtown and this is uptown. It's like, what if we were just like, excited about, like, risky, cool, exciting stuff that was worth leaving your house for?

[Alison Stewart]

My sister sent me an email. An email saying that you were going to be the graduation speaker at Dartmouth College. She's a Dartmouth grad.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah, I am. That's my next thing to do. Yes. Start writing. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, when you think about college, what is something that you learned in college that you use in your stage work?

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, wow. Well, this is sort of college related, but in college, I was in the improv group there, and it wasn't connected to a professor, a college itself. It was like, we just did it. We just, you know, someone had, like, read a Del Close book or something like that or something about the Herald. I don't know, we just, like went. We'd put on shows. We didn't have a, you know, rule book or anything. And so I think just that thing of, like, go do it. Like, that was very helpful to me also. Geez, I don't know what I learned in college. I need to get this together for the speech.

[Alison Stewart]

We got a couple weeks.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. I gotta think on that. I'm sure I'm gonna think of it all when the interview is over.

[Alison Stewart]

And Sam, before we let you go, you know, some people have no experience with Rocky Horror. This was their first time seeing the show. How did you think about introducing them to Rocky Hauer?

[Sam Pinkleton]

You know, Richard o', Brien, who is very much with us in New Zealand and sends me kind of incredible coded messages, is quick to remind us that Rocky Horror is a great musical with killer songs. It's, you know, it's a story about two kids who have a wild night and get sucked into a different world. Much like, I don't know, the wizard of Oz and many of other favorite stories. So part of the fun of this was looking at it through a lens of how do I feel watching this if I'm a Rocky Horror fanatic and I know every word, and how do I feel about watching this if I just want to see a Broadway show? And it is the collision of those experiences that is unique to doing it on Broadway at Studio 54. And I do think, if I may say so, that we've made a great musical that just stands on its own as a fun night at the theater. And I hope it's additive if you have no idea what you're walking into, that you get dunked into this experience of a kind of slightly feral fandom that may be around you at times.

[Rachel Dratch]

We had a student matinee yesterday and I was thinking, like, student matinee, like, who. Who booked this? You know? But they were screaming the whole show. They were so into it. It was really cool. And not just at like, you know, the sexy stuff. They were like, screaming when Luke hit his high note on the, like, it was. They were so into it. So it was really a cool sort of extra perspective to the whole thing.

[Alison Stewart]

It sounded like you were really into them being there. Yeah.

[Sam Pinkleton]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Sam Pinkleton]

Rocky Horror is just sort of like everything that I love about live theater, and that isn't just about the myth and the pop culture of it. It's just a fun night at the theater.

[Alison Stewart]

We've been talking to director Sam Pinkleton and Rachel Dratch, who plays a narrator in the Rocky Horror Show. We're gonna have more with Stephanie Hsu, Amber Gray, and Michaela J. Rodriguez after the break. This is. This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's get back into our show today. Before the break, we were hearing about the Rocky Horror show, which has earned nine nominations at the Tony Awards this Sunday, including Best Musical Revival. So let's head back over to the Frankenstein palace for more of my conversation with Tony nominated Stephanie Shue, who plays Janet, along with Amber Gray, who plays Riff Raffle and Mikayla J. Rodriguez as Columbia. I started by asking Stephanie about the very diverse backgrounds that she and her fellow cast members came from and how that has impacted the show. Oh, gosh.

[Stephanie Hsu]

It's my favorite thing about this show, the collision of backgrounds. We have people who are drag performers deep in Bushwick. We have people who come from the film world, Broadway veterans, snl. And I feel like that sort of collision of backgrounds is what makes this production especially queer in spirit. Queer outside of sexuality, but queer in the spirit of art making. And that you can be anybody and still be an artist that deserves to take up space on Broadway. And that's a really rare, rare thing. So it's. It's amazing.

[Amber Gray]

I found it's kept the company buoyant, too. Like, we all have different skills, you know, so we really take care of one another to make sure everybody's good and.

[Stephanie Hsu]

Yeah.

[Amber Gray]

Yeah. Special in that way.

[Alison Stewart]

Mikael, it's your Broadway debut. What has surprised you the most about being on Broadway?

[Mikayla J. Rodriguez]

Okay. Well, I will say, I mean, I did have a little bit of taste of the Off Broadway world back in the day, so I did kind of get. Get the kind of cycling and the kind of work ethic. But I will say the bigger audiences is really surprising to me. And getting all of that energy is really exciting and static. Ecstatic. Is that how you say the word? And, yeah, it's kind of relieving and also a little intimidating because when you're in a more intimate space, it's a little bit more contained, whereas if it's bigger audiences, it's a little bit more overwhelming. But I kind of love it. It's the best thing that you can get. And also a Little, you know, challenging. Amber, we love a challenge.

[Alison Stewart]

You are a true Broadway veteran. You were great in Eureka Day, Hadestown. Amazing.

[Amber Gray]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

What has been interesting to you, Being part of a cast that has come. Performers come from all different backgrounds.

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amber Gray]

Like I was just mentioning. I just love that we all have different skill sets, and it has, like, encouraged caretaking in a way that I don't always experience. And, yeah, we're quite good to one another because we come from the different backgrounds, I think.

[Alison Stewart]

Your character, Riff Raff, what's his relationship with Frank N. Furter?

[Amber Gray]

Sometimes I think of it as, like, you know, severe daddy issues, like, just

[Narrator/Performer (Various Cats Characters)]

love me, love me, please.

[Amber Gray]

But also, you know, I really want to go home to my home planet, and Frank N. Furter's gone too far, so now I got to take him out. I love him. I think I really love him, but it's gone too far, and now he has to be removed from the picture.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you approach the character, which is usually played by a man?

[Amber Gray]

Yeah, to be honest, on that front, I didn't think about it too much. I more focused on being an alien and what that meant in my human form. Like, how do humans talk and move and that. That's the main thing I focused on. It was a lot of fun playing with strange body movements of sort of mocking, mimicking human behavior.

[Alison Stewart]

Stephanie, what would you say Janet's relationship with sex is at the beginning of the show and how does it evolve?

[Stephanie Hsu]

Well, I love Janet so much. My focus for Janet was she has been played by so many iconic women, especially, of course, Susan Sarandon. And when this came out, you know, 50 years ago, it was a very different time. You know, the 70s, women's lib, et cetera. And I really wanted to figure out a Janet that felt applicable and sort of expansive for 2026. And to me, her biggest arc, her biggest journey is going from a woman who desperately wants to be chosen to learning how to choose for herself. And so I feel like how that applies to sex or partnership. In the beginning, she's like, just choose me. I want to get married. If I can just get the ring on my finger and it's better than Betty Monroe, then that must mean I'm worthy of something. But, you know, through getting to stumble upon the castle and Frank and the beautiful castle of freaks, she starts to realize that there's more to it all and that she actually has the ability to claim it for herself, whatever that desire is.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk about shout outs.

[Stephanie Hsu]

Okay. Stephanie, you're the first person to ever ask you 101.

[Alison Stewart]

I have to ask. You have a lot of things shouted at you during the show. How do you work that into your performance?

[Stephanie Hsu]

Well, I think we've all found a really lovely relationship to it by now. Sometimes, you know, now when it doesn't happen, I'm like, hello, it's your turn. But, you know, someone said to me early on, like, when we were trying to figure out the relationship to the call outs, that it's a deep type of love language from the audience. And also culturally, in this production, we are trying to figure out our sweet spot, and it feels the best when we can really love on it together, simultaneously, both us as the actors and the audience, when it's. When they're along for the journey and. And we find that flow together. And now I love it. I mean, it's like unlike any other Broadway experience you could ever have, where there is this kind of radical permission not only as, like, with the content of the story itself, but with the relationship to the audience. We're saying, like, come here. Be yourselves, and come be with us. And I think there is something quite necessary, actually, now to the fabric of the show. Yeah. For that to be what it is.

[Alison Stewart]

We're in a moment when trans rights in America are under attack. And here you have on a big Broadway stage, a show celebrating sexuality and gender and whateverness. What do you think is powerful, Amber, about the way this show handles sex and gender?

[Amber Gray]

Oh, what a huge question. It's beautiful. I hope we are expansive on that front, you know, more so even than people were allowed to be 53 years ago when the piece was first made. That's what I can hope for. Yeah. I don't. It makes me emotional. I'm not even sure how to get into it. But our cast is wonderfully diverse on that front, and we're just playing those characters and trying to. To tell the truth of this story. And hopefully that comes across just based on who we are as people, you know, playing these roles. I don't. I don't think we have to add much on top of it to be effective in that way.

[Alison Stewart]

Mikayla, what is bold about this show?

[Mikayla J. Rodriguez]

I think what's bold about the show is what we've said before, is that we have different intersectionalities of this show. We have so many people who are a part of different cultures, a part of different walks of life. And to what Amber was saying, you know, I mean, there are some really hard times happening right now, but just to have even a trans woman Playing Columbia, you know, that has not happened. And that's even a slap in the face to anyone who says that it can't happen. So I think that's even a step forward to what is put against us and how we have to continue to keep going forward. I mean, how we have to continue to shine light and awareness on any kind of person who takes on a part in any role or any position in life. Like, it's possible, it's tangible, it's achievable, it's obtainable. All of those things are able to be accessed. And we are the pillars, like I said before, and we are the people that will continue to shine that light so that when adults come to the show, or like when we had a matinee show for a whole bunch of kids yesterday who were all types of queer and every part of walk of life, they got to see us and they got to see us in our highest and strongest and sharpest form. Like, that is when boldness, and I hope we continue to do that. We will continue to do that. Like Stephanie said, this is one of the Broadway shows that don't do what is typical. Like, we step outside of the norm, and that's because we are not the norm. And, yeah, that's what boldness is.

[Stephanie Hsu]

Can I say something, too?

[Alison Stewart]

Of course.

[Stephanie Hsu]

I just want to shout out Richard o'. Brien. Also, when you watch the documentary Strange Journey that was made by his son, Linus o', Brien, you know, you start to hear him speak about the time in which he was writing Rocky Horror. And the gift of doing a revival is you go back and you take the source material very seriously and you excavate it like a excavator, like a Stonesman. But I honestly, sometimes, especially after watching that documentary, you know, for all the history and opinions that people have about Rocky Horror, the Rocky Horror Picture show and the aliens and the sci fi, whatever, when you really work with the material, it really feels like Richard was also trying to excavate this part of himself that was not available at that time 53 years ago. He's a very genderqueer person. And we were not talking about things like that in this way 53 years ago. So it's such a gift to go in there and you, you know, you see, we take these storylines very seriously because it's actually like to make sense of. It feels like you're inside of someone's psyche also trying to liberate themselves and had nowhere to go but to outer space, fictional outer space.

[Amber Gray]

In order to do so.

[Stephanie Hsu]

So I just wanted to bring that. Like that's the gift of the material itself.

[Alison Stewart]

I want to talk about costumes before I let you go. Riff Raff has brains. Tell us about that conversation.

[Amber Gray]

Well, I had worked with Albie before, the wig maker, and we wanted to honor the original silhouettes, you know, of Richard o' Brien and his sort of slimy, stringy hair. So it was such a wonderful combination in a way to honor me being biracial. Like, I just love my wig.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, that was my conversation with Amber Gray, Mikayla J. Rodriguez and Stephanie Hsu. Rocky Horror is nominated in nine categories at this year's Tony Awards, which will be held this Sunday evening. Catch us talking about it on our socials at all of it wnyc. If you missed any of our Tony segments this week or want to hear our conversation with any other Broadway shows ahead of the awards, catch up by listening to our podcast, available on your podcast platform of choice. If you like what you hear, please leave us a great rating. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll catch you back here next time.

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