← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Raccoon Sighting or Summer Downpour? Your Memories of Shakespeare at the Delacorte
00:22:39
Greg Young, co-host of the Bowery Boys podcast, discusses the history of the Delacorte Theater, and how the Free Shakespeare in the Park program first began.
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- [00:09]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The Delacorte Theatre has hosted Shakespeare in the park almost every summer since the venue was opened in 1962. The last time it underwent significant renovations was in 1999. Fast forward to the summer of 2025 when the Delacorte reopened following an 85 million doll featuring a new facade, new lighting, improved accessibility, and new drainage systems. It's an outdoor theater after all. The New York Times recently ran an oral history story with actors, directors and artists sharing their memories from the Delacorte. Marisa Tomei reflected on the sounds of crickets. Liev Schreiber talked about performing to a raccoon. Al Pacino remembered getting caught in the rain. But Free Shakespeare is more than just the stars on stage. We want to hear about your favorite memories. So tell us what productions stand out in your memory. What did you see back in the day? Have you been caught in a rainstorm or gotten a surprise performance from a raccoon? Call or text us right now. 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. And as your calls come in, I'm joined by Greg Young for a history lesson on the Delacorte and Free Shakespeare. Greg is the co host of the Bowery Boys podcast, the long running New York City history Podcast. Greg, welcome back to all of it.
- [01:33]
B
It's such a pleasure to be here. You got me at the the show last night. I'm still tingling from it. I loved it so much. I'm so honored to follow him after this. Actually.
- [01:43]
A
It's so great when you think about Shakespeare in the Park. It started in 1954, but the Delacour itself didn't open until 1962. So how would you describe the New York Shakespeare Festival when it first started?
- [01:59]
B
All right, so this is in itself, could be a play in itself. We have to start actually by thinking of like what Shakespeare was like in the 19th century because it's actually like a very, like everyone was into Shakespeare. It was a working class play. Like it was mainstream. There was traveling troops throughout the United States, was on the Bowery. But by the early 20th century, it was a little like high, you know, highfalutin and a little bit slightly elite. And so Joe Papp, who worked in television and CBS wanted to bring it back to like everyone, like, everyone should enjoy Shakespeare. The themes are universal, right? And of course, to do that, it has to be free because, you know, a lot of people don't have the money. They Also, like, might be scared by that point because it is. Has a certain, like, highbrow sensibility in some aspects. So in 1954, he opens the Shakespeare Workshop down in what we would call the East Village today, but Lower east side today, with the objective of, like, creating Shakespeare works for the people. So it does, in fact, then go to the parks, but not to Central park first. The very first park, actually, was East river park, and that is, I think, 1955. So it was the year or two after it first started. And so it's at East river park now. Today's East river park is all torn up because they're rebuilding it and everything, but it started there at an amphitheater and for free. And, you know, the Lower east side was at once the densest, most populated place in the world and was still very dense by the 1950s. And so people really, really loved it. And then someone from the New York Times came and reviewed it. And so all of a sudden, it went from, like, this tiny little, like, thing. And also, keep in mind, like, he's kind of part of this whole movement of Off Broadway. Like, while he's doing that over in the West Village, there's already, like, new experimentation. So it's really part and parcel of, like, something else is happening in theater that's. That's bubbling up. And so it's amazing that the public today remains a huge Off Broadway presence. Right. So they then start. So after that, at the East river park, they then, like, literally take it on a sanitation truck. They, like, go from park to park, and it's, like, traveling. I mean, that's how Shakespeare was. Is done for decades and centuries, is traveling. And so it does eventually get to Central park. And they do camp out kind of where they are at today, like, near Belvedere Castle. Right. So is now the right time for me to mention Robert Moses?
- [04:32]
A
In a moment.
- [04:32]
C
Okay.
- [04:33]
B
All right.
- [04:33]
C
All right.
- [04:33]
B
All right. Let's take a break.
- [04:35]
A
Yeah. Let's talk about the idea of constructing a permanent home.
- [04:38]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [04:39]
A
For the festival in the park. Who had the idea? How did they get started to create what would ultimately become the Delacorte Theater?
- [04:47]
B
Well, that is. That does actually. It's partially Robert Moses's idea, actually, because when he. When they got to Central park, at first, Robert Moses was into this idea. Like, he's. He's conservative, but, like, he does, like, people gathering. But then he started seeing that these crowds were, like, lots of young people. It was like, you know, like the late 50s. So, you know, bohemian crowds. So he kind of banned them from Central Park. Or rather, what he said is, like, you can continue playing, but you have to pay. Okay. So that was the whole point of Joe's like, id. It's like, no, it has to be free. And so what's brilliant about this is Joe Papp actually wins the kind of public argument, and then he actually wins it in court, which is one of the first of soon many downfalls of Robert Moses at this time. And so because of all of this, Moses is like, okay, fine, just build him a theater. And then he actually kind of goes off to another job. And so there was another Parks commissioner, but it takes about two years. And so finally it opens in 1962. And what I find really interesting about this is, like, you see Delacorte in the name George Delacorte. You're like, oh, what theater maestro is this? Like, what, is he a great actor? Is he a great director? No, I mean, he's just a publishing philanthropist, and he who mostly published, like, pulp magazines, he actually, like. I mean, I collect a bunch of, like, vintage comic books, and they're like, there's a bunch that he like Dell. So every time I walk by the Delacorte, I was reminded of these, like, 1960s comic books. But he actually did a lot of things in Central Park. You also may know him from the Delacorte clock, which is down at the zoo, and so, you know, like the little dancing animals. So that's the Delacorte clock. So that we also have him to thank for that and also some of the Alice in Wonderland playground. So he's a big name in Central park, but I think this is probably his most famous contribution to the park.
- [06:44]
A
Let's take some calls. Zoe is calling in from Long Island. Hi, Zoe. Thank you for making the time to call all of it.
- [06:52]
C
Hi. Yeah, Many years ago, I was there at the Delacorte to see Kevin Klein in Richard iii. And the woman sitting in front of me leaned over to her friend and said, I don't care what they do to him. They can make him limp. They can give him a hump. He's still sexy as hell.
- [07:16]
A
That is also a good part of the Delacorte is the audience. Let's talk to Nancy, who's calling in from Long Branch. Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.
- [07:29]
C
Hi. I've been a big fan of yours and a big fan of Shakespeare in the Park. Been going for years, but my best memory is in the. I don't even Remember what show it was? But it was in the middle of the production that it started raining and there was a big corporate sponsored group in front of us. They all took off and left their emblazed, you know, their logos, seat cushions. And we nabbed a couple and we've been, we've been using them ever since.
- [07:56]
A
Thanks for calling in. This text says, I saw into the woods in 2020 12. Literally in the woods. I will never forget that performance. I was 19 and had just moved to New York. It was absolutely enchanting. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Your favorite memories of Free Shakespeare and the Delacorte. What have been your favorite, most memorable productions? How'd you get to see it back in the day? Do you get to see any big actors? Have you ever been caught in a rainstorm or gotten a surprise performance from a raccoon? Call us. Text us 212-433-WNYC 212-4339. Joining me for this conversation is Greg Young, co host of the Bowery Boys podcast. What was interesting to you about the original design of the Delacorte?
- [08:45]
B
Well, you know, you have to think back that, I mean, theater has been out in the world since the ancient times, like the amphitheater. Right. So what's very intriguing about this is it does trace back all the way to almost like a Greek Roman concept. And that was just not actually all that done all that much in New York, believe it or not. Like the way that the parks were designed kind of up to that point. Today it's a little bit more common. But what's also interesting is the way it's designed is like to bring in the beauty of Central park behind it. Like, I mean, the Belvedere Castle. And it's also on the spot where like in the 19th century there was like a water reservoir there. So it wasn't very pretty. But so, I mean, today it's unbelievably captivating. And what I like, it's a sort of centered in the park. So you have to kind of, it's not like, I mean, you can still kind of hear some like, you know, helicopters, but there's not the, the sounds of the city in the way that you might in a smaller park. And so I think that that really is what kind of creates that kind of magic almost like out of this world, like for like two hours. You're like, like you're not quite in New York. Right? It has that kind of magic quality.
- [09:58]
A
When it first started or when it was first an idea. Who was for it and who was against it. There had to be some people who thought like, this is not, this is.
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B
Not gonna work well. So that's very interesting to kind of tie back to what I said. Obviously Robert Moses didn't love it, but there was a contingent because let's keep in mind what else is happening in early 60s. Let's look down at like Washington Square park where you have folk singers are collecting and like it's kind of getting a rowdy reputation a little bit. And so that's also happening in Central park and many places. We won't get into all of that like, but like music festivals and things like that that were a little bit sort of like, like a little bit untenable, untenuous maybe that the people thought that like this is going to cause crime, this is going to destroy the grass, this is going to do that. Like. So, yeah, so there actually was more pushback than you would think. Like what? Like who would be, like, who would be offended by free Shakespeare? But it was more the idea of like a counterculture clash. It was sort of a stand in for that. So the parts of the city at this as like, well, no, we don't want the, I mean eventually they're hippies. We don't want the hippies up here in Central Park.
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C
Right.
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B
I mean that's, that's kind of like what the energy was when it first started.
- [11:13]
A
So how much has it changed over the years?
- [11:16]
B
Well, I, I think the big change is, I mean, I cannot believe that I went in yesterday and saw like Sandra oh, Lupin Nyong', o, Peter Dinklage, Daphne Ruben Vega, you know, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, like stars, stars, stars. When it first started, obviously didn't. It wasn't like filled with famous people of that time, but it made a lot of people very, very famous. And that very first show, the Merchant of Venice, starred George C. Scott and James Earl Jones. I mean like on stage in Central park, but like at the start of their careers. And then you can go through and you can look at different shows and all of a sudden like you're just down. Like Meryl Streep was in eight shows. Kevin Klein, of course, you know, as it goes on, they start doing different things. They don always. It's not always Shakespeare, like Pirates of Pen dance. They even had a version of Hair, I think like 10, 15 years ago, something like that. Maybe 10 years ago. So they have kind of shaken it up a little bit. Yeah, but I do find like this kind of new. It's a new Incarnation. But it still sticks with that Pap vision of being free. And, of course, like, it's not just seeing the show, it's getting the tickets. It's the lines. It's being part of this, like, New York City experience. It's like the original lines. There's a lot of lines for things, bagels and things. These big dumb line. But this is the original. If you're gonna stand in one line, this is the one to do it.
- [12:42]
A
This is not a big, dumb line.
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B
No, this is a great one.
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A
This is a great line.
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B
I love this line.
- [12:47]
A
Let's take some more calls. David is calling us from Manhattan. Hi, David. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it today.
- [12:55]
C
Hi. Great. Thanks for taking the call. Yeah. I was a theater major in college. I had just come back from working in California, and I was trying to do offstage work. I had specialized in lighting design. And all I could get was after a month's work at the Shakespeare Festival for a couple of weeks, I took a vacation from my job just to work there. And I worked at the Delacorte for half that time and took down the set for the Gollum and put up the set for the Midsummer Night's Dream with William Hurt. And the fun fact is it was a triple thick stage because they use real dirt with real grass that has to be watered. So the whole thing weighed tons.
- [13:37]
B
That's amazing.
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C
And that was pretty amazing.
- [13:40]
A
Thanks for the tip. We appreciate it. Let's talk to Franny, who's calling in from Stuytown. Hi, Franny, you're on the air.
- [13:47]
C
Oh, hi. I was at that Al Pagino performance of Othello when the rainstorm came. I mean, maybe there were a couple rainstorms, but I was at one that lasted about a half an hour, and we all filed out and we waited under, like, a covered area for a half hour, and they swept the stage and we all went back in and the show went on. And I was also there to see Meryl Streep in 78 in Taming of the Shrew. And her character, Kate, had an absolute fit, lying on the ground, shaking her arms and her leg. And I saw that, and I'm like, she is really good at that, and she loves doing it.
- [14:28]
A
Thanks for calling. And David is calling from Windsor Terrace. Hi, David, you're on the air.
- [14:35]
C
Hi. Great show. I saw. I saw Meryl Streep and Kevin Klein along with Natalie Portman, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Marcia Gay Harden and Christopher Walken. And they left out John Goodman in that list doing the seagull. It was just. And Marcia Meryl Streep made her entrance doing a cartwheel. And Mike Nichols was the director and he had a pre curtain announcement that they were trying out a new sound system. So you had to be especially careful to turn off your cell phones. If you didn't, you might be electrocuted. It added to the fun.
- [15:12]
A
Thanks for calling in. My host is Greg Young. He's co host of the Bowery Boys podcast. We are talking about the Delacorte. Well, aside from your. You went last night?
- [15:22]
B
Yes.
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A
What are your other fun memories?
- [15:25]
B
Okay, so I was trying to. What's funny about this is like I've been three or four times the one that I was wanting to share. I can't actually remember the show, but it was late 1990s. But I remember this is why I'm like, the whole process of it is really great. I remember like standing in line or like sleeping in line or laying in line for hours and hours and hours. And you. I mean now there's like, there's actually several different ways you can get tickets. So it's not. You'd all. But like back then it was, nope, you all have to line up in the line. And I don't know. I remember that being magical. I remember doing that for more than Shakespeare in the Park. I think I sat in line for rent in the 90s. Like I thought it was a thing we all did. And I just remember like, like, what are this. Like, this is incredible. I'm in Central Park. I'm in the greatest park in the world and lining up to see this incredible show for free. And so I think it's just a. It's a remarkable experience. I mean even last night when I was sitting and I mean like just everyone was so absorbed in the performance and just looking around and thinking like, wow. Like some of some people here have been like, this is a 48 hour process. Like they came down here and they have the planning and then they go down here and they're down here and then they're being rewarded with something extraordinary. You know, like, I mean. And I mean that's just magical. That's just magical to me.
- [16:44]
A
I'm trying to remember. Danielle Brooks was in and somebody's looking it up for me. But she came to talk to us on the show. I can't remember right now. And I remember it was a really physical part.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And she was pregnant at the time and she hadn't announced it yet. I remember thinking like, oh my God, she Did Shakespeare in the park every night and pregnant. She's my hero.
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B
I mean, it could be rain. I mean, like, yeah, there's a lot of disasters there.
- [17:10]
A
So I'm talking to Greg Young, co host of the Bowery Boys podcast. We are talking about the Delacorte. Okay, let's talk about the renovations.
- [17:20]
B
Why?
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A
I have a little bit of time. What were you excited to see them update? And what has worked? What hasn't?
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B
Oh, my God. I thought. Well, I thought it was beautiful. And what I liked is that it wasn't. It felt like I was still in the old Delacorte. But you could tell that the lighting system was different. The way that people are organized in are very different. The concessions is different. But, I mean, it still is. Like, it's incorporated into the park. Like, they didn't make it. You know, they. They didn't make it kind of like they made it better, but they didn't necessarily make it, like, fancy or glassier or anything. Like, I love the kind of wood shell that it has. And. And someone said this as we walked in. They were like, there's not a bad seat in the house.
- [18:00]
C
Right.
- [18:00]
B
I mean, like, I feel like that was. I think that. That they've even made that even better. I always think that was true of the Delacorte. But, yeah, I mean, there you could sit at the very top and I think, have a wonderful evening.
- [18:11]
A
They had. The firm was Eniad Architects, who worked in the reservation. They're also working on renovations of Astor Place. Do you think that they kept the spirit of the Delacorte?
- [18:23]
B
I do. I mean, of course, like, I remember, like, it was probably more, like, ragged around the edges when I remember from going there. So, I mean, maybe it's, like, slightly more polished to keep the raccoons out. Some raccoons out. Not all of them.
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A
Can't keep them out.
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B
But I 100% think it's still in the spirit. And I think that Joe Papp would be, like, extremely pleased with the direction of this is where this is Going. So.
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A
By the way, it was Much ado about nothing. 2019. That was the Danielle Brooks Show.
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B
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I remember that. I remember that.
- [18:56]
A
So while we're talking about historic buildings, the New York Shakespeare Festival actually happened. It became the Public Theater, which is now at Astor Place.
- [19:04]
B
Yes, yes.
- [19:04]
A
And that's where you host your.
- [19:06]
B
Yes, my.
- [19:07]
A
Tell me about this.
- [19:08]
B
So, yeah, we're a little ancillary to the public cause. We perform an annual Halloween Ghost story show at Joe's Pub. Which is like the cabaret venue of the public. So the public is located on Lafayette street, and this building that Joe Papp built and renovated, you know, to become the home base. And so we do. Every Halloween, this is our eighth year running, we do a live ghost stories of old New York show. Me and my partner, Tom Myers and Andrew Austin, Lisa Carlin, our musicians, and basically tell ghost stories. It's sort of like an adult way to spend Halloween with food and a cocktail. And all of our stories are based on New York City history, on our actual legends of New York. And we just sort of have fun with them with some music and costumes and fun lighting.
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A
Let's try to get a couple more calls in here. Judith from Dobbs Ferry. Hi, Judith. Thanks for calling, all of it.
- [20:00]
C
So. Love you.
- [20:00]
D
Love Brian, love wnyc.
- [20:02]
A
Thanks.
- [20:05]
D
Oh, yeah. So I. My parents started. We lived in Queens, grew up in Queens, and we started to go to the Delacorte early on. They took me. We always waited in line. Same thing. But I just want to say, I saw a performance of James Earl Jones as Othello, and I still get chills about it. I don't. I think it was the best Othello, the best Shakespeare I've ever seen. The magic of the theater, the background and his voice. It's the only time I ever went backstage to thank a performer, to say how wonderful it was. He just. I couldn't walk. I could hardly stand up. I just got involved in the show. You know what I mean? And I just. I love the Delacorte. I loved it. I don't get to go down much anymore because I live a little further north, but. Yeah, I wanted to tell you that.
- [20:52]
A
But you have good memories. We appreciate you sharing them. This says, during a rainy evening at the Delacorte production of Julius Caesar, I was one of the audience who just wouldn't leave. They kept hoping I would, but mop the floor and they finished the play. What is special about Shakespeare in the park in New York, the Delacorte, that it's. It's such a part of the culture?
- [21:15]
B
Yeah, it's like a. It's like. It's like a thing that has been going on for decades and decades. So it does have a historical component. It has a great reputation. Like, you know, you're gonna see something good. And because it's in the summer, there's just something, like, warm and enjoyable about being in Central park again. When she was talking about having, like, a visceral feeling, I kind of feel like I had that myself. Last night. And I think that's, it's part to do with, like, not just seeing a show. I could be in a theater and see that show, but it's being outside. It's being knowing I'm in New York, but not in New York, right. And then being with like. Because it's like 1800 people, right? There's so many people. And you're all really tuned in to what's happening partially because so many people have been standing in line. So it's like the anticipation is in a way, like almost like a baseball game in some ways. Like, there's like there were even a couple, like, people were crying out and everything. Like, like it was almost like a sporting event. Like, it was just amazing. I think it's just, it's one of a kind.
- [22:19]
A
Greg Young is the co host of the Bowery Boys podcast. Thank you for being with us.
- [22:24]
B
Delight. Invite me back anytime. You have a weird history thing you want me to talk about.
- [22:28]
A
Oh. Oh, you're on. Coming up, we're marking the 50th anniversary of Born to Ron with author and music critic Peter Ames Carlin. Stay with us.
- [22:39]
B
Pacifico is a Mexican lager brood to be discovered. It's like fresh tracks on a powder day like that uncharted trail a stone's throw away like the perfect wave on a sunny day Pacifico, find your own way. 21 plus drink responsibly. Imported by Crown Import, Chicago, Illinois.
- [23:02]
E
This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.