Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Rachel Khong, author
Episode: Rachel Khong’s ‘Real Americans’
Date: May 28, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode delves into Rachel Khong’s latest novel, Real Americans, a multi-generational story of a Chinese American family, exploring themes of family, race, identity, secrecy, and the meaning of being “real Americans.” The conversation covers Khong’s writing process, the inspirations from the sociopolitical climate post-2016, and nuanced insights on generational cycles, cultural assimilation, and hope for connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Birth and Structure of Real Americans

• Conception of the Novel:
  • Khong initially began writing the story in December 2016 after the U.S. presidential election, intending for it to be a short story.
  • The novel spans three generations, emphasizing how family history and secrets ripple through time.
  • The story opens in 1999 Manhattan with Lily, a listless, 22-year-old Asian American woman, and unfolds across decades and states, culminating in the journey of her son, Nico.
  • Quote:

    "I started writing this book in December of 2016, right after the presidential election, and was feeling a little strange... The themes that were in the air were things like power, identity, race, who gets to be called a 'real American.'" (03:17)

Character Deep Dive: Lily and Her Family

• Lily:

  • Portrayed as aimless and adrift, feeling societal and parental pressure, especially from her immigrant mother.
  • Struggles with a sense of belonging as a “fully American” who is often not perceived that way due to her appearance.
  • Raised without the Chinese language or traditions because her parents deeply assimilated.
  • Quote:

    "She's a little bit of a slacker, this Y2K slacker... she feels that she is lacking ambition in part because that's a story she's always been told — that you need an ambition, that you need to become something when you grow up." (05:18)

  • Khong shares that Lily's lack of ambition was "aspirational" for her, contrasting with her own upbringing.

• Lily’s Mother (Mae):

  • A biologist who fled China during the Cultural Revolution.
  • Avoids discussing the past, perpetuating a sense of cultural absence in Lily’s life.

On Parental Expectations & American Narratives

• Khong reflects on the broader societal expectations tied to American identity — the mandate to be productive and “make something” of oneself, and how these narratives intersect with immigrant family dynamics.
  • Quote:

    “It's her mom. It's definitely a sort of tinge of immigrant parent expectation. But it's also just a narrative America imposes on us... As an adult I now see how in service of capitalism that is — these so-called ideals.” (06:19)

Secrecy, Family History & The Cycle of Silence

• Cycles of Silence:
  • The novel scrutinizes family secrets handed down through generations, especially as Lily, like her mother, keeps history from her own son, Nico.
  • Khong suggests total transparency is elusive, and every family harbors unknowable parts.
  • Quote:

    “It's inevitable... It's impossible to share the entirety of who you are to somebody else. I think it takes a lifetime... people are always changing.” (14:34)

  • Efforts to break such cycles are fraught; even with good intentions, patterns repeat, sometimes fueled by cultural divides and miscommunication.

The Hope of Connection & Communication

• Despite inherent barriers, Khong maintains optimism about moments of connection, describing fleeting but precious episodes where individuals truly “see” each other.
  • Quote:

    “There are these moments of real connection... moments of respite and moments where it doesn't matter so much maybe whether you're fully understood and you can just sort of exist in this other person's company.” (16:35)

  • Even imperfect, incomplete connections have value.

Personal Reflections and Navigating Cultural Difference

• Khong relates her own family experience to her characters, reflecting on longing for stories from her parents, who express love differently.
  • Quote:

    “I'm trying to understand them better through writing a story, right? And we just have these very different languages — not literally, we all speak English, but it's just in the sort of cultural language.” (19:19)

  • Making peace with unbridgeable distances, she suggests, is sometimes more realistic than dreaming of a “perfect” generational breakthrough.

On Universal Appeal of Family Sagas

• The conversation connects Khong's work to a growing body of contemporary literature tracing multi-generational immigrant and minority family journeys (e.g., Tommy Orange, Claire Messud).
  • Quote:

    “I only have this one life, this one body, this one perspective. I make decisions and then doors close behind me... and yet fiction is sort of the closest I can come to [witnessing more than I actually can].” (22:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Khong on her writing process and the novel's evolution:

  "I could have worked on it for another five years, let's say. But I think I was ready... I had taken this story and these characters as far as I could." (08:30)

• On the magic and limitations of love:

  "There's something kind of alchemical or magical about two people being drawn together... you can't just look at a list of what people are. You have to experience who they are." (11:59)

• On generational misunderstanding:

  “We can exist in these different ways and sort of find ... the places where we can make those bridges to some sort of connection.” (19:19)

• On why sprawling family histories resonate:

  “It feels almost primal, right? ... I want to know what happened when I wasn’t around. ... Fiction is sort of the closest that I can come to that.” (22:03)

Key Timestamps

• 01:16 — Introduction to Khong and summary of Real Americans
• 03:17 — Origin of the novel: inspiration post-2016 election
• 05:18 — Lily’s character, her aimlessness, and family pressure
• 06:19 — Parental expectations and American ideals
• 09:34 — On cultural assimilation and silence about family history
• 11:59 — Lily and Matthew’s relationship dynamics
• 14:34 — The inevitability and repetition of family secrets
• 16:35 — Hope for connection and moments of understanding
• 19:19 — Khong’s personal reflections on familial communication
• 22:03 — Universal resonance of generational family stories
• 23:12 — Closing thanks and event information

Tone and Style

The conversation is thoughtful, gentle, and nuanced, balancing literary analysis with personal storytelling. Khong’s answers oscillate between candid self-reflection and big-picture cultural commentary, always centered on curiosity and empathy for her characters (and herself).

For more:
Rachel Khong’s Real Americans is available now. Khong appeared for a book talk at You and Me Books, Lower East Side, NYC, on May 28, 2024.