All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Reading 'Wuthering Heights' Ahead of the Controversial New Movie
Date: February 12, 2026
Guest: Alexandra Schwartz (New Yorker staff writer, co-host of Critics at Large podcast)
Episode Theme: Reflections on Wuthering Heights—its legacy, darkness, adaptation challenges, and renewed relevance ahead of Emerald Fennell’s provocative new film.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Emily Brontë’s classic novel, Wuthering Heights, as anticipation builds for a bold new film adaptation directed by Emerald Fennell and starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi. Host Alison Stewart is joined by literary critic Alexandra Schwartz to dissect the novel's themes—obsession, revenge, romance, and otherness—while exploring how contemporary interpretations can reshape our understanding. Listeners contribute their own reactions and questions, rounding out a wide-ranging reconsideration of the "love story" that is, perhaps, anything but.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Discovery & Re-Reading Wuthering Heights

• Alexandra Schwartz’s First Impressions
  • First read in eighth grade; still owns her original copy (03:39).
  • The novel's intensity and addictive quality swept her away—an opinion unchanged after multiple rereadings (03:52).
• How Perspective Changes With Age
  • Greater admiration for Brontë's creative power and the book’s capacity for reinvention in every age (04:16).

    "She herself was in her 20s when she wrote this book. She died the year after it was published at 30." – Alexandra Schwartz (04:17)

2. Gothic and Romantic Elements

• Gothic Hallmarks
  • Haunted houses, ghosts, fatal obsession, and dark atmospheres (04:58).
  • Not just a conventional romance:

    "I think if you think stalking is an act of love, you will think Wuthering Heights is a love story... there's as much darkness as there is light. In fact, there's a lot more darkness." – Alexandra Schwartz (05:31)

• Obsession Over Love
  • Heathcliff and Cathy are bound beyond life and death but not in a healthy way:

    "They both kind of stalk each other beyond the grave forever." – Alexandra Schwartz (06:08)

3. Characters: Obsession, Codependency, and Revenge

• Heathcliff & Cathy’s Dynamic
  • Iconic lines like “I am Heathcliff” reflect their extreme codependency (07:09).
• Toxic Masculinity & Psychological Roots
  • Labeling Heathcliff’s actions as "toxic masculinity" is reductive; his outsider status (racial, social) and trauma also drive him:

    "He is referred to as a gypsy. He's a foundling... loved by the father, but punished by Kathy's older brother... there's a sense of having no history, being orphaned, being abused." – Alexandra Schwartz (07:55)

  • The novel is as much about revenge and vengeance as love (08:31).

4. Racial and Social Outsider Status

• Heathcliff’s Racial Otherness
  • Book hints he could be of Indian or Romani descent; he's always an outsider—relevant to English colonial attitudes of the time (09:29).
• Casting Decisions in Adaptations
  • Debate over whitewashing versus embracing the character’s outsider identity in film (08:52; 18:52).

    "I think race plays a huge issue in the book... he is very much an othered." – Alexandra Schwartz (09:29)

5. Sex, Intensity, and Darkness in Adaptation

• How (and Whether) to Depict Sex
  • The new movie reputedly embraces a more overt sensuality—unlike the restrained novel, where passion is implied, not shown (11:03).

    "I'm hearing a lot about how moist this movie is... I'm all for it. ...In the novel, we know that sex happens... but you're not going to see Emily Brontë disrobe her characters." – Alexandra Schwartz (11:03)

  • The novel’s intensity is expressed through passionate kisses—and episodes like grave digging that go "way beyond sex" (11:42).

6. Setting: The West Yorkshire Moors

• Pathetic Fallacy & Isolation
  • The bleak, windswept moors echo the volatility of characters’ emotions (12:24).

    "The moors are such a remote, windswept place... people are always showing up in the rain." – Alexandra Schwartz (12:24)

• The Two Households: Earnshaws and Lintons
  • Stark contrast between rustic hardship and privilege underscores Kathys' inner conflict and social ambitions (13:17).

7. Evolution of Reader Responses to Heathcliff

• Alice Hoffman Quote: Changing Perceptions Over Time

  "Reading Wuthering Heights when you're 18 and you think Heathcliff is a romantic hero. When you're 30, he's a monster. At 50, you see he's just human." – quoted by Alexandra Schwartz (13:49)

  • Schwartz agrees: Heathcliff’s vengeance is his most defining—if troubling—feature (14:02).

8. Adaptation Challenges & Open Interpretations

• What Makes a Good Adaptation?

  • Every version (e.g., Laurence Olivier, Masterpiece Classic, recent racially diverse casting) brings something new; the novel withstands "a lot of different interpretations and a lot of reimaginings" (16:44–17:32).
  • Schwartz welcomes subjective takes—so long as the themes of obsession, violence, and revenge remain central (18:01).

• Limited Series vs Film

  • Serialized adaptations can explore the novel’s depth, including the underrepresented second generation of characters (16:54, 18:01).

9. Book Club Conversation Starters

• Agency of Cathy
  • Schwartz encourages groups to consider Cathy’s agency—her choices drive the plot’s pain and complexity, contrasting with traditional “star-crossed lovers” tales (20:15).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Nature of Romance in the Book:

  "If you think stalking is an act of love, you will think Wuthering Heights is a love story."
  – Alexandra Schwartz (05:31)

• On Brontë's Literary Genius:

  "The wildness of her own imagination... creating these characters who, as we see, are timeless."
  – Alexandra Schwartz (04:16)

• On Heathcliff’s Complexity:

  "Heathcliff is struggling with many, many things... there's a lot beyond just masculinity going on here."
  – Alexandra Schwartz (07:55)

• On Setting and Atmosphere:

  "The moors are such a remote, windswept place... people are always showing up in the rain."
  – Alexandra Schwartz (12:24)

• On Adaptation Subjectivity:

  "I think that's okay to be really subjective about an adaptation of this book. This book can take it."
  – Alexandra Schwartz (17:19)

• On Readers' Changing Views:

  "If he's just human, he's a very extreme genre of human."
  – Alexandra Schwartz, responding to Alice Hoffman quote (14:02)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:39] Alexandra Schwartz’s personal history with the novel
• [04:58] Elements that make a novel Gothic
• [05:31] Is Wuthering Heights truly a love story?
• [07:09] Famous quotations and codependency discussion
• [07:55] Heathcliff and “toxic masculinity”
• [09:29] Race and otherness in the novel
• [11:03] Sex and intensity: film adaptation vs. novel
• [12:24] Significance of the moors and landscape
• [13:17] Explaining the Earnshaw and Linton households
• [13:49] Evolving perception of Heathcliff (Alice Hoffman quote)
• [16:44] What makes a good adaptation?
• [18:01] Series vs. film format and adaptation philosophy
• [20:15] Book club questions: Cathy’s agency

Conclusion

This vibrant conversation unpacks Wuthering Heights as a text far more complicated than its “romantic” marketing suggests. Alexandra Schwartz and Alison Stewart explore the novel’s intensity, troubled obsession, social critique, and adaptability—arguing that each generation and adaptation can (and should) bring new questions to Brontë’s enduring, unsettling masterpiece. Whether you’re rereading before the film or encountering these ideas for the first time, the episode is a compelling window into why Wuthering Heights still matters.

For more literary conversations or live discussions, Alexandra Schwartz’s Critics at Large podcast will host a special episode about Wuthering Heights on February 19th at 92Y.