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Foreign.
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This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. One battle after another. Director Paul Thomas Anderson won best picture and best director at the Oscars. Sinners director Ryan Coogler won for best original screen clip screenplay. Both won Oscars for the first times in their careers. Best actor winner Michael B. Jordan thanked the black giants of Hollywood and for executives for taking a chance. I want to thank Warner Brothers.
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I want to thank Mike and Pam for believing in this dream, this vision of Ryan Coogler and betting on the culture, embedding on original ideas and original artistry. And you're an amazing, amazing person. I'm so honored to call you a collaborator and a friend. And you gave me the opportunity and space for me to be seen. And I love you too, bro. Love you to death.
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History was made at this year's ceremony. Autumn Duran Arkhipa became the first woman to win cinematographer for Sinners. And the song golden from K Pop. Demon Hunters became the first K Pop tune to win best original song. Hamnet star Jessie Buckley became the first Irish actress to win best actress. And presenter Javier Badem. The best documentary feature and short winners all shared pointed statements against war and school shootings. And Sean Penn didn't show up even though we won award for best supporting actor. Let's get into it with Lewis Rittell, co host of the Keep it podcast and Oscar aficionado is joining me to talk about the night's biggest moments. Hey, Louis.
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This is what I'm on earth to do. I'm thrilled to be back here. Hi, Alison.
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And by the way, Jesse wanted to say that he loves you. He just.
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I love him, too. And also, I'm a writer on Jimmy Kimmel and we spend our time doing fake Truman Capote impressions for each other. Just. Anyway, so to hear him do it so brilliantly is fabulous.
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He's the best. Hey, listeners, we want to hear from you. What did you think of the Oscars? Who you're most excited to see win? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. It was really quite a competitive year for the Oscars. Which wins were you most excited to see last night? Oh.
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Oh, my God. There were so many. I was excited to see. I mean, honestly, the races intensified right up until the end, which rarely happens at the Oscars. We usually see people, you know, stormed to victory, you know, a couple years ago. Divine Joy Randolph. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the most awarded single role in history. You Know, you're just waiting for these people to get the crowning achievement, get the Oscar at the end. So I was really just excited to see, and this sounds vicious of me, but the bloodbath of it all. Somebody was going to leave disappointed since, like, several different people were promised the wins at different points.
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You know, Conan returned to the host to host the Oscars for her second year in a row. And he began his opening monologue warning that the show might get political for some people and recommended anyone who's uncomfortable to watch an alternate version of the show, alluding to turning points, USA's All American halftime show. Let's listen to Conan shouting out hamnet during his F1 monologue.
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In hamnet, William Shakespeare's wife Agnes gives birth by herself in the woods. Or as we call that here in America, affordable health care
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now.
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Too real for you, huh?
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All right,
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F1. I loved F1. A popcorn movie was great. F1 was terrific. Yeah. F1 is up for best picture. It's the story of a race car driver who finally wins after deciding to go faster.
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So, Louis, how would you rate his performance this time around?
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Well, you know, it's interesting. I love some of the jokes. And actually, in the recap of all of his best jokes, I haven't seen my favorite one much, which was at the beginning of Hamnet. A message comes on the screen explaining that the names Hamnet and Hamlet were used interchangeably. That's when I knew I better buckle up. Like, that level of just dry, like that droll take on a movie is what I want from Conan o'. Brien. He's like, his thing isn't really damning someone like Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, they get up on stage and they're sticking daggers in people in such a fun way. That's so memorable. But Conan, I think, is very affable, and. And so I like the jokes that played most into. Into that. I actually kind of thought he seemed more nervous this year, which surprised me.
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That surprised me as well. Also, there were quite a few recorded bits which I thought was kind of interesting.
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Correct. But some of those really worked. I really liked the Jane lynch interruption. The. The, you know, the dystopian YouTube world will be entering when it comes to the Oscars in the future. And she played that so. And she played that so brilliantly, too, with the harshness I expect of Sue Sylvester from Glee.
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It was interesting. PTA Paul Thomas Anderson. He was the director of Magnolia, Boogie Nights, Phantom thread, just to name a few. It's hard to believe this is his first time winning an Oscar. Why do you think that was important that he actually won the Oscar for this particular film?
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Well, one bad after another. I don't think he's ever made a bad movie. You know, if you go all the way back to, like, Hard Eight, like, there's so much potential even in that first movie, let alone, like, all the incredible characters he's given us over the years. I truly think his signature achievement is that almost any character in any of his movies could be their own movie. And I can't say that for almost any other director. And so for it to finally happen here, one feels inevitable. But two, I would compare it to Scorsese winning for the Departed, and that it's just a very well done whiz bang feature. You know, it's like, it's a brilliant action movie. There are, like, contemporary things going on in the movie, but I think what people love about it is the slickness of the entertainment. So I think it's just a really. It's a hard film to deny because you're so gripped by it the entire time. It's so engrossing.
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It's interesting because this was the first year that casting had a category. Why do you think it's important to recognize the role of casting?
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Well, I think everybody watches a movie and has the opinion afterwards. Like, if the ensemble is functional and fabulous and there's lots of characters you wouldn't have expected or performances you wouldn't have expected. You're like, God, who put that together? So I think it sort of takes this amorphous thing we're always thinking about, which is, how did this come together? And puts a word to it and puts an accolade to it, which, you know, and seeing that speech last night, I thought that woman gave an incredible face to the casting world. Like, that woman felt like somebody who cast you and was like, can you do that again? Send it another self tape.
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Well, let's let people hear her. One battle after another Casting director, Cassandra. Hope I get this right, Kulakundis. Let's listen to her speak about winning the one battle after another casting director's award. Wow. Wow, wow, wow.
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Okay, I have to obviously thank the Academy for even adding this category and for the casting directors that fought tirelessly to make it happen despite everything in their way. I dedicate this to you and to the casting directors who never got a chance to get up here, who didn't even get a chance to get their name on the movie. So better for you guys. When Paul Thomas Anderson calls you, you enter the PTA witness protection program, and you literally don't talk to your friends and your family unless they have somebody that's right for the movie. And I put them all to work and I get mad at them when they haven't provided. And I have to thank all the crew, who I am in all of your departments, whether you like me or not, whether it's locations, who really hates me, stunts, product, production design, art directors. Yeah, everyone and editors, obviously. Thank you. But, like, this is a thing. And I just thank you for, I mean, 10 movies. We've done this for over 30 years. Like, we grew up together, I guess. And this is freaking insane. And I have one before you, which is also crazy.
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Hi.
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So, yeah, I hope you get one tonight.
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Yeah. She really explained well what a casting director does. She's up in everybody's business.
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I know. And she said, and I'll name the people who dislike me. And that's how it's like, no, you are fearsome. I believe you.
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Recapping last night's Academy Awards with Lewis Vertel, co host of the Keep it podcast and an Oscars historian. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What did you think of the Oscars? Who you most excited to see win any movie or performance you wish had taken home an award? Our lines are open. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNY text says. I was sad the Secret Agent didn't take an award, but not mad at the ones who did. It was so competitive and Michael B. Jordan's performance was extremely deserving. People from Recife should take the award for best fans and cheering what did you make of the Secret Agent? It was a beaut. That was an amazing film.
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Well, also, that's a movie where there are actually a few movies this that struck me this way this year where it's ambiguous throughout. You almost don't know what's happening, and then at the end, you feel so satisfied. Like, the movie delivers in ways you cannot anticipate even watching the rest of the movie. I actually was rooting for the Secret Agent to win the casting award because the amount of characters in this movie that aren't in any other movie that put you right in the time and place of this movie. I mean, like, no movie had time and place. Like sinners are like the Secret Agent this year. And for that reason, I wish it had gotten something else. I was very surprised, actually. That sentimental value act ended up taking international over it.
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Yeah, that was A little surprising. There were a lot of history making moments. Moments we talked about K Pop Demon Hunters winning best Original Song, the first K pop song to win Sinner's Autumn Duran Arkhipa became the first woman of color and the first woman period to win for best cinematography. What do some of these historic wins, what do they highlight about Hollywood and the Academy's interests and where filmmaking is heading?
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Well, honestly, like, they strike me a little, I don't want to say depressing, but a part of me thinks, like, how can we still be having firsts? Yeah, you know, it's like when, like SNL announces they finally have their first, you know, Latina cast member or something. I'm like, well, it's been going on for 50 years. How is this possible? So I think it just highlights that, you know, for the most part, you know, the, I'll say, like white people making movies are by and large still listening to each other and that like when you finally get these, you know, minority producers or actors or performers stepping up and making big splashes, it's like that is still an act of defiance. They have, they have, they have to defy people in order to succeed.
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Let's talk to Marcia in Queens. Hi, Marcia, thanks for calling, all of it. You're on the air.
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Oh, hi. Thanks for taking my call. I think that Conan the host was nervous because of all the threats that were made against the Academy. I can't think of anything out of it that it could have been because he's been a host for many years and he's never shown that kind of nervousness before.
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That's interesting. Talking to a writer for Jimmy Kimmel about how a host or someone who's in one of these situations can find themselves caught between politics and their job.
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Right. And in a way, I feel like when confronted, he will. He enjoys making a political statement, you know, but you're right, it's like you do never know what's actually happening up to point the minute backstage. And there are often changes to the script last minute, like things are going in the teleprompter last minute that are changes and that, you know, as a host is terrifying. You want things set in stone, especially if you're Conan o' Brien, who has workshopped this material for weeks and weeks at various clubs around la.
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This is an interesting text and it's one I know you agree with. The tribute to Rob Reiner and his wife was moving and memorable.
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Oh, I mean, the In Memoriam segment is the triumph of this Oscars. I was Wondering how they would do it. You know, we lost so many luminaries this year, as we all know. But it wasn't just that they were all great, they were also idiosyncratic. Like I wanted the specificity of what they brought. Like you can't just say Diane Keaton was great. You need to get into it. You need to talk about the decades that she brought, how her, how she a brilliant actress, comedian, person, active, just like the many hats all these people wore. And of course Rachel McAdams actually used the phrase many hats. And I love that they basically had to reinvent the, in memorial them. They basically said we had to stop it. Take a moment to like honor the, the full spectrum of what these people brought. We started with Rob Reiner, we got to Diane Keaton and Catherine o' Hara and then eventually to Robert Redford with that. I mean, when Barbra Streisand appeared and I knew she was going to appear, what can prepare you for that level of legend? What can prepare you?
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We're talking about the Oscars with Louis Fertel. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Louis Virtel. He's the co host of the podcast Keep it and an Oscars historian. That's what we're calling you. I've decided you're already a historian.
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Oh, I better be at this point.
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You better be. I want to read this to you. This text that we got, it says terribly disappointed. For months I dreaded that one battle after another would spoil the night for Sinners. Sinners is the vastly more interesting, multi layered and original film. But the Oscars keep awarding white men with guns because any invitation to confront actual complexities of America's issue is too scary. Sinners, a truly exceptional, revolutionary and open hearted film was robbed in so many categories by the totally average pat on the back, performative, political. One battle with Woo, that person's got a, he's got a beef with one. One battle. Putting on your hat. Objectively, did one battle deserve best picture?
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First of all, I just want to say about the person texting, this is who I want to be talking about the Oscars with. It should be this intense all the time. I just want to say, yeah, well, honestly for me, and look, I'm just some gay guy. This is not particularly a movie year. I'm going to reflect on as like some of my favorite movies. Personally, I just felt like it was A lot of, like, action movies. It was a lot of what I would call boy movies. Really? Did it deserve it? I mean, like, I think a lot of the performances in one battle after another were fabulous. And I have to say the same thing about Sinners. I would say that I think there was a general richness to Sinners that I preferred, if we're comparing the movies. But
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I do think that I don't
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know what I would have picked overall. Actually, if I had to pick a best Picture winner, I might have picked. I mean, like, I thought Marty supreme was also really entertaining, too. So I'm almost sorry to have to pick that one.
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But I do think that there. That when the time comes, when it's the 100th anniversary of the Oscars, or whenever they do a film montage of great scenes in films, that one scene from Sinners, the dance scene for I Lied to youo, which brings the past and the future and the present together in one image, will be in montages forever. I do.
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Yeah. Well, also, that's the part of the movie, like, that elevates it to the kind of fantastical. It turns it. It expands the idea of cinema within the movie. And I. I did love that. I also did feel it was lightly on the nose, like I was watching an opening montage of so youo Think you Can Dance. I did think that, but I also. But again, like, there are so many performances in that movie that were great that we don't even talk about. Like, I thought Hailee Steinfeld was amazing in Sinners and, like, she got nothing this award season.
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This text says, I was very annoyed that K Pop Demon Hunter's winners were played off the stage after very little time. The Oscars is interested in having them before golden as Entertainment, but completely uninterested in hearing their words. How did you feel about them playing them off stage now?
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I think I have a pretty good memory for this. I don't remember anybody played off that abruptly before. I mean, it was like a thud. Like the. The. I was with a room full of Oscars aficionados, you know, eggheads like me. We, like, clutched our hearts. Like, it just. It was astonishing. And it was such a historic moment, too. So it was just unthinkable. I just. I didn't expect that of the Oscars, honestly.
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Let's go to Nora. Nora's calling in to all of it. Hey, Nora, thanks for calling.
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Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I will say I like to watch the Oscars every year because I like to see these Artists who've sometimes poured years into projects. You know, the odds are so against we artists. I like that part. But has anyone else mentioned the closing scene in which Conan o' Brien gets tricked into thinking he's been named host for life and then gets gassed in his office and dumped? At first I thought it was in a garbage chute, but you see a flicker of flames. I mean, I was just shocked by that. I don't see that as funny at all.
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Thank you for calling in. That was a callback to one battle after another, right?
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Yes, literally. I mean, like, they almost added nothing to it. It's just the scene in general. And then the button on that scene was that Mr. Beast, famous YouTube star, would then be the next host for life. I was actually pretty surprised how just literal it was. Like, here's one battle after another starring Conan.
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B
What's sort of interesting, there was sort of a nod towards Gen Z, right?
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Yes, and there should be one. But I like this ceremony old school.
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So you like it old school.
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That's the nibble they get.
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So why. That's interesting. Why do you like it old? The Oscars?
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I just think that's the thrill of the Oscars that like it harkens back to, you know, old school glamour. And we have these unbelievably talented stars who, you know, in these performances, like, belong in the same canon as Michael. All the people Michael B. Jordan mentioned, for example, Sidney Poitier, Halle Bear. The years and years of stars we've had. And so I just like that overall, like, the most exciting thing about this is you're seeing people whose names they win and they get added to a list that goes all the way back to Janet Gaynor. That goes up, you know, that Colbert's and the Bette Davis's and Vivian Lee's and all that, and that we're continuing a heritage and making the heritage better, frankly.
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Let's talk to Taylor online too, calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Taylor, thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.
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Hi. Thank you. I had a question for a guest. So I saw, you know, most of the nominated movies, but for me, no other choice was definitely my movie of the year, but I know that it didn't receive any nomination. So I was wondering if our guest had any thoughts or tea about that.
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Well, I mean, I, I think about campaign $. I think about campaign. How much campaign financing goes into these things. Really? No. Like, I'm surprised, like, the Secret Agent got that far. You know, you think about, like, who's really propelling these things. And you really depend on arts connoisseurs to, like, make their opinions known about what the most important, prescient urgent films are in a given year to sort of like propel the ceremony where it needs to be. And sometimes we just get the most entertaining movies who win best Picture. And I have to say, in general, and I think this is true for most deep Oscars fans. I don't know that most Oscars fans really. Stan. As we say best Picture, I feel like our favorite categories tend to be things like original screenplay or they tend to be things like even some of the technical categories because that's when we get the, you know, most sort of interesting winners.
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Well, that's interesting because Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein, it had three wins last night in hair and makeup, production design, and best costume design. Why did this film stand out to you?
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Well, I think it's just, it looks the artiest. You know, if I'm going down an Oscars ballot and let's say I'm voting quickly, as some of these people might have been, that might be an easy decision to make. You know, Frankenstein, you're like, oh, you remember how Jacob Elordi looks. You remember the, the vast venues this place goes. You know, it's like, it's the movie starts in Danish and then like, you know, we go into his laboratory, etc. I actually didn't love the production design of Frankenstein. As I said in the podcast, I felt his laboratory looked like a Frankenstein escape room, like just everything you expect in it. That's really funny.
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B
This said, why didn't Sean Penn accept his award? I thought he was very deserving. I loathed his character. I was crazy impressed.
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Yes, it. Oh, once. Pardon me,
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we're having computer difficulty.
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I'm back. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Well, it's interesting, Sean Penn, when he gave a speech for winning when he won for milk back in 2009, that was the ceremony. He was funny, but also like a bit off color. Like there's something about him that is just generally uncomfortable with audiences. And I don't know where he's coming from, not coming to this ceremony, but I would have liked to hear him give a Joe Pesci style, three or four word speech and walk off. That would have been lovely. But at the same time, because he wasn't there, we had more time for other things like that great tie in the short category later.
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B
That was amazing.
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Yes.
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Because when Kumail said it at first you're like, is this a bit.
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Yes, there's only been, I believe, seven ties in Oscars history. Most famously the best actress tie between Barbra Streisand and Katharine Hepfron for Funny Girl and the lion in winter. But no, a tie is so baffling. You're like, you're conversing with everybody. Like, was it really the same number? Is there a 5 vote swing? Like you're trying to figure out how it's possible.
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B
What did you make of all the reunions of casts last night?
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I feel like that's a standard of award shows now. You can basically expect reunions when you go to these things. That's what most of the effort, I think behind the scenes with bookers goes into. Like, how can we craft a moment that feels fresh and yet also is recognizable to viewers at home? Like, oh, they remember that movie or they remember those people hanging out together. I was saddened that Wendy McClendon Covey, hilarious in Bridesmaids was not part of the Bridesmaids reunion. But then she posted on social media that she allegedly or she says herself had a neck lift and couldn't be there. So I'm like, okay, great answer.
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Well, while you're, while we're talking about it, let's listen to the cast of bridesmaids celebrating 15 year anniversary. We are so happy to be back
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here to present the Oscar for best score. Now, a film's score helps us to feel. It invites us into a world. Oh, sorry. What's happening? Oh, what are these?
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Are these notes
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people in the audience?
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B
Oh, that sounds weird. I guess I'll open mine up. This is strange. Okay, well, mine says, first of all, you ladies look extremely beautiful tonight. That's nice. Aw, thank you. You're all aging well. Signed Stellan Scarstar. That bit went on for a little while. What were about this group of actresses? And I'll use actress because actor actresses. But what about this group of actresses stood out to you 15 years later? Looking at the five of them, I
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am honestly shocked at the range they all have. Rose Byrne has put an exclamation point on that year by getting nominated for this crazy movie. If I had legs, I'd kick you. But she's an amazing comedian. She's of course fabulous in Spy with also Melissa McCarthy who herself is also an amazing dramatic actress nominated a few years ago for can you ever forgive me? And then Kristen Wiig, whom I just said this on Twitter last night. I think she is the best actor in the history of snl if somehow she were punished, not allowed to do comedy and we would only put her in prestige indie dramas. I'm telling you, she'd be nominated for a whole bunch of Oscars. I think she's so real. Never a false note on screen.
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Let's talk to Adam, calling in from Brooklyn. Hey, Adam, thanks for calling all of it.
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C
Hi, I just wanted to give a shout out to my favorite film of the year, Caught Stealing by Darren Aronofsky. I just really felt like it really got kind of dismissed and swept under the carpet because it was just kind of too similar to one battle after another in that Inautur is pivoting to dark comedy. And there just wasn't enough room in the narrative for two times that it just kind of just got brushed. Brushed aside. It was really an excellent film. I'm not saying it was better than one battle, but it was on par, at least for me. And I love both directors so much,
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B
you know, thank you so much for calling in. Yeah, you know, somebody who couldn't stand the line was surprised at how sort of vicious and how competitive. Maybe competitive, better way to put it. It can be. The campaigning for Oscar season. Can you speak to that a little bit?
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Oh, yeah. Well, again, I mean, I think it's just brutal, like what you think is going to win at the beginning of the season. And then the season is so long.
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B
Yes.
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A
What we're left with. But at the end, it's like, I don't know. I can't even really say why. Opinion shifted sometimes. You know, in this case, I actually thought Sean Penn would win way back in September, and he did end up winning. And that almost, in a way is reassuring to me. Like, okay, like a strong instinct. We can just like follow up on. And he will win. I want to say about Caught Stealing, I remain surprised that Darren Aronofsky directed that movie. It felt very out step for him. His movies are usually very insular. His movies are usually very insular. And you're really stuck inside a character's head. I'm thinking of Black Swan, for example, but it was like one battle after another. Pure whiz bang, you know, like a pure entertainment. And Austin Butler was actually sensational in it.
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B
As we wrap up, which films would you have liked to have seen more recognition last night?
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My favorite documentary this year was It's Never Over. Jeff Buckley. I get a little.
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B
So good.
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I thought it was so fabulous. I look, I love music biopics, like, perhaps in an apologist way, but I thought this was the rare music biopic that needed to explain. A genius needed to explain where this person was coming from because he's hard to interpret. Like, everything we know about him is a little bit like in the ether, a little. We don't know what we know about him. And we obviously have so little music to listen to of his. And I just thought it made you get it. I love the interviews. I loved hearing the music in that context and hearing story. And I've seen that movie like three or four times now.
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B
And it was good to see Amy Madigan win.
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Oh, my. Oh, please. Also, it's like it hearkened back to Ruth Gordon winning for Rosemary's Baby. It's like, you know, like a, a kooky woman knocking on your door and you're like, oh, she. This woman seems harmless. What can go wrong? And the answer is, well, everything.
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Lewis Vertel is the host of Keep It Lewis. Thanks so much for joining us.
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A
Oh, always a blast. Thank you for having me.
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B
There's more, all of it on the way after the news.