Recommending Great Memoirs and Biographies (Summer Reading Challenge Check-in)

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Recommending Great Memoirs and Biographies (Summer Reading Challenge Check-in)”

Introduction

In the July 28, 2025 episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart and featuring Get Lit producer Jordan Loft, the focus centers on inspiring listeners engaged in the Summer Reading Challenge. This episode zeroes in on one of the five categories of the challenge: biographies and memoirs. The hosts aim to provide a curated list of compelling reads, share personal recommendations, and encourage community participation by soliciting listener suggestions.

Summer Reading Challenge Overview

Alison Stewart kicks off the episode by acknowledging listeners who have already completed the Summer Reading Challenge, praising their speed-reading prowess. For those still participating, she offers reassurance and motivation, emphasizing that there’s ample time left to complete the challenge by Labor Day weekend.

"If you're not done, don't panic. There's still plenty of time."
– Alison Stewart [00:04]

The focus for the month is on the biography and memoir category, responding to reader requests for a nonfiction selection. Stewart and Loft engage listeners by inviting them to share their favorite biographies and memoirs, fostering a sense of community involvement.

Featured Recommendations

1. The Color of Water by James McBride

Jordan Loft praises James McBride, known for his novels, for his impactful memoir, The Color of Water. He highlights how the memoir delves into McBride’s upbringing as one of twelve children with a white Jewish mother in the Red Hook housing projects and Queens.

"The memoir is really about him trying to connect with his mother's history and legacy and learn more about her."
– Jordan Loft [01:33]

Stewart shares a personal connection, explaining how McBride’s portrayal of his grandmother inspired her own literary work, blending fiction with reality.

"I put her on the page and made her loved."
– James McBride [03:08]

2. The Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado

Loft describes The Dream House as possibly his favorite memoir, lauding its innovative structure and poignant exploration of an abusive relationship between women. The memoir’s poetic and fairytale fragments effectively convey Machado’s internal struggles and resilience.

"She really combines an interesting and tragic story of her life with something that's so formatically interesting."
– Jordan Loft [04:22]

3. Consent by Vanessa Springora and Jill Ciment

Both authors present memoirs titled Consent, which tackle the complex dynamics of relationships between younger women and significantly older men. Springora recounts her traumatic experience with a famous French writer, while Ciment reflects on her marriage to an older man and reevaluates her past memoir in light of the MeToo movement.

"Both are tackling similar subjects of inappropriate and abusive relationships in personal narratives."
– Jordan Loft [07:49]

4. Classical and Modern Biographies

• Mark Twain’s Autobiography: Stewart recommends Twain’s posthumously published autobiography for its insightful humor and depiction of his development as a writer.

• Bobbi Campbell’s “When I Stop Talking, You’ll Know I’m Dead”: A humorous memoir detailing Campbell’s Hollywood experiences with witty anecdotes.

• “The Loft Generation” by Edith Schloss: A biography offering a female perspective on the New York art scene, highlighting Schloss’s contributions as a German Jewish refugee.

5. Other Notable Mentions

• Born a Crime by Trevor Noah: Celebrated for its heartfelt and humorous portrayal of growing up in apartheid and post-apartheid South Africa.

• Wild Things about Paul Gauguin: Explores the controversial artist’s life, blending historical context with personal anecdotes.

• Peter Ames Carlin’s Biography of REM: Focuses on the band's dynamics and their impact on the alt-rock scene.

• “Bossypants” by Tina Fey and Amy Poehler’s “Yes Please”: Both memoirs offer comedic insights into their careers in comedy and television.

Listener Participation and Recommendations

Throughout the episode, multiple listeners call in to share their favorite biographies and memoirs, adding diverse perspectives and personal anecdotes. Highlights include:

• Joan from Manhattan recommends Charlie Chaplin’s autobiography and Mark Twain’s memoir, emphasizing their historical and personal insights.

• Lauren from Chappaqua suggests memoirs like Barbra Streisand’s, Isaac Mizrahi’s, Patti Smith’s Just Kids, and Carole King’s Natural Woman, all of which depict various facets of New York City and its vibrant cultural scenes.

• Jason from Park Slope (a 12-year-old) enthusiastically endorses The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind by William Kamkwamba, appreciating its balance of hardship and triumph.

Biographies: A Personal Lens on History

Transitioning to biographies, Loft underscores their value in providing historical context through individual experiences. He cites the Eleanor Roosevelt biography by David Michaelis as an example, which offers a nuanced portrayal of her achievements and shortcomings.

"It gives you a glimpse of history through this personal lens."
– Jordan Loft [21:11]

Stewart adds that a good biography acknowledges both the strengths and flaws of its subject, allowing readers to form a balanced understanding.

Upcoming Releases and Special Mentions

• James Baldwin’s Biography: Set to release on August 17th, offering new research and insights into Baldwin’s life and legacy.

• Anna Wintour’s Biography: An authorized biography that explores her rise to power in the fashion industry, coinciding with the filming of The Devil Wears Prada 2 in New York City.

Summer Reading Challenge Submission Details

The hosts provide clear instructions for listeners to submit their completed reading lists for the Summer Reading Challenge:

• Ongoing Participants: Use the PDF form available at wnyc.org/summerreading to track progress.

• Completed Participants: Fill out a Google form on the same website to list all read titles and share favorite selections for prize eligibility.

Broader engagement is encouraged through social media, with listeners invited to share their reading experiences on Instagram by tagging @allofitWNYC.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart and Jordan Loft wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of biographies and memoirs in understanding personal and historical narratives. They express gratitude to listeners for their participation and recommendations, fostering a vibrant community around the Summer Reading Challenge.

"We want to hear your recommendations. Give us a call at 212-439-692-2433."
– Jordan Loft [32:46]

Listeners are reminded to stay tuned for upcoming episodes and new content related to the Summer Reading Challenge, including the release of transcripts on the WNYC website.

Notable Quotes

• “Culture encompasses religion, food, what we wear, how we wear it, our language, marriage, music, what we believe is right or wrong…”
  – Cristina De Rossi [Podcast Description]

• "The memoir is really about him trying to connect with his mother's history and legacy and learn more about her."
  – Jordan Loft [01:33]

• "She really combines an interesting and tragic story of her life with something that's so formatically interesting."
  – Jordan Loft [04:22]

• “It gives you a glimpse of history through this personal lens.”
  – Jordan Loft [21:11]

This episode of All Of It serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners seeking enriching biographies and memoirs, while simultaneously building a community of engaged readers sharing their literary journeys.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Foreign.

[Jordan Loft]

This just in. We've gotten word that some of you have already finished your summer Reading Challenge. If you are one of those peoples who are a speed reader, you can now tell us what you've read by filling out the [e-mail] summerreading that's wnyc.org summerreading you can tell us what you read and where to send your prize, but if you're not done, don't panic. There's still plenty of time. The deadline is the end of Labor Day weekend, so you still got an entire month left to help give you a little inspiration. As we look forward to the final month of the Summer Reading Challenge, we are going to focus this week on one of the five categories, and that category is a biography or memoir. That's good for a month worth of reading. Our readers asked for a nonfiction category for the challenge this year, and we answered. So all week long, we're going to hear conversations with memorists and biographies. But first, joining me now to give us some of her recommendations in this category is all of it and Get lit producer Jordan Loft. Hi, Jordan. Hi, listeners. We want to hear from you. What's a biography or a memoir you recommend? What biography or memoir are you reading? For the Summer Reading Challenge, we are taking your biography and memoir recommendations. Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC okay, I know you finished your own selection category. What did you pick?

[Guest Speaker]

I did. I just finished the Color of water by James McBride. I love him so much as a novelist. He's been on our show a couple of times. He's been a get lit selection twice. What an honor. And I think he's just a master of character. But I hadn't read his memoir, which is really, I think, what launched him on the literary map. This memoir, the Color of Water, it's about his life growing up as one of 12 kids with a white mother, partially in the Red Hook housing projects and partially in Queens. And he learned sort of along the way that his mother was Jewish and had left the family when she decided to marry a black man. And the memoir is really about him trying to connect with his mother's history and legacy and learn more about her. And part of that journey was learning about her own parents who owned a grocery store in Virginia, actually. But in the novel the Heaven and Earth Grocery Store, if listeners remember, there's a character in that book that is very much based on his own grandmother. And I had forgotten that as I was reading the memoir, I thought to myself, oh, my gosh, this sounds so much like that protagonist in the Heaven and Earth grocery store. So I actually wanted to play a little clip, because when he came on the show, when he came on the show to get lit, actually, to talk about that novel, he mentioned that he changed one key detail about her life. Because in the memoir, his grandfather, who he never met his mother's father, was really a not nice man. He did not care for his wife at all and did not care for the family, and he decided to change that in the novel about her. So I wanted to play this little clip of James McBride.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, inspired by my grandmother, because my grandmother was. You know, my grandmother ran a store in Suffolk, Virginia, in the 30s. She had polio. Her left hand was disabled. Her husband didn't love her. My uncle, who was her only son, ran away and was killed in World War II. My mother ran away and married my father. And so she wasn't loved by her husband. So I put her on the page and I made her loved. But once she got on the page, she became Chona. You know, I called her Chona. Jewish people say Hannah, whatever you want to call her, she became her own person. And then she began to lift and move in ways that were particular to her. But, yes, it was inspired by my grandmother.

[Jordan Loft]

You heard the whole audience go, aww.

[Guest Speaker]

I just. I remember that line from the event. I remember being there when he said, I put her on the page and made her loved. And that really stood out to me reading the memoir, because she had a really. She had a really rough life. And it was beautiful to remember those connections between his fiction and his actual family story.

[Jordan Loft]

That's the Color of water by James McBride. All right, we're gonna go for memoirs now. You are calling this next memoir the best that you've ever read?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. This is in the Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado. I think what's so interesting about this memoir is it really plays with form throughout the memoir. The story is Carmen's story of surviving a relationship that is abusive both emotionally and physically. It's with another woman, so it's also a subject you don't hear much about, about domestic violence between. In a gay relationship. But it does very much happen. And she decided to tell the story through these sort of interesting poetic and fairytale fragments. So every little chapter has its own different style and format, and it helps you sort of immerse yourself in her mindset of what was going through her mind at the time. Of trying to figure out, is this a loving relationship? Is this person who I think loves me actually abusing me? What's going on? Where do I turn to to understand what's happening? So she really combines an interesting and tragic story of her life with something that's so formatically interesting that she takes these different tropes and themes and formats and puts them all together in one memoir. It's just an excellent read.

[Jordan Loft]

Let's talk to Joan in Manhattan. Hi, Joan. Thanks for making the time to call all of it.

[Alison Stewart]

Can I recommend two because I can't choose between them. One is the autobiography of Charlie Chaplin. It's brilliant, it's funny. It gives you a great insight into his talents and how he developed it at a very early age. His mother training him to notice body language, which became so important in the silent films that he made. And he talked about his movie the Great Dictator, which was quite controversial. He said if he had known who Hitler. Really? He thought he was a joke. He thought Hitler was a joke. He said, if I had known who he really was and what he was going to do, I never could have made that film. It's a wonderful autobiography. Also, I want to recommend Mark Twain's autobiography, which I think was published some years after his death. And I'm not sure why people leave that requirement. Is it because they want to make sure that everyone they mention in the book is dead? Like Oscar Wilde did the same thing, that his memoir should only be published 60 years or 50 years after he died? Did they do that so that they make sure that anyone they talked about is dead or why do they do that? That was a good one, too. Oscar Wilde. De Profundis, I think he was called. So that's three. I gu.

[Jordan Loft]

I'm wondering if they. If their papers aren't made available in.

[Guest Speaker]

Some cases, that could definitely be part of it. And I do think it's easier to imagine revealing very vulnerable and honest things about yourself in your life once you feel that everyone who might have known you is gone has gone. So I can't imagine it's easier to be vulnerable in that scenario.

[Jordan Loft]

This says, please include Boy with the Bullhorn by Ron Goldberg. It's a biography and a history of ACT up, the AIDS organization. And one, a coming of age story and a history of the AIDS activist movement. This other text says Terry Garr's memoir, Speed Bumps, Flooring it through Hollywood. Written very much in Garr's natural voice, it's a gorgeous story about her journey from being a dancer in Viva Las Vegas, through her brilliant golden years, through her Ms. Diagnosis. By the end, you'll feel like you've made a new friend.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, that's the best type of memoir. If it feels like you get the get to the end and feel like you really know the person.

[Jordan Loft]

You're recommending two memoirs, Jordan. They have the same title. The title is Consent. What do they have in common?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. So these two memoirs, they make a really interesting pairing. They are both by adult women reconsidering a relationship they had with a much older man in their teenage years. The first one is by Vanessa Springora. I believe this one was published first. It's translated from French, and it's about a relationship she had. I want to use relationship in air quotes, because it was obviously very inappropriate when she was a teenager with a much, much older, famous French writer. So this was something that actually, as she recounts, was sort of known by the public at the time that he was involved with a teenage girl, and people didn't really think so much of it. And only in later years did public people start coming out and saying, wait a minute, why are we celebrating this man who has had this horrible relationship, abusive and manipulative relationship, with a young girl? And so this is her telling her story and sort of exploring why was no one looking out for me? Why did no one at the time see me with this very famous man and say, we're gonna help you. This is not right? So that's Consent by Vanessa Springora. The other memoir is Consent by Jill Cement. It has a sort of similar beginning in that she was a teenager and started a relationship with a married man who was much, much older. The difference here is that she married that man.

[Jordan Loft]

I see.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. And they were married for many years and in fact, were married until he died. And so what her memoir is exploring is, in the wake of MeToo, how she sort of looked back on that marriage and that relationship and thought, huh, you know, was this really inappropriate? And if we hadn't stayed married, if we hadn't had this, what I consider to be a love story afterwards, would I look back on that relationship and consider it to be grooming or really inappropriate? And it's also a sort of meta memoir because she is criticizing her own previous memoir about their relationship. So she had written a book, I believe, in the 90s about their marriage and sort of defending it. And in this latest one, she says, you know what, There were a couple things that I wasn't very truthful about in that first memoir. So it's also a really interesting exercise in like a memoir as an art. And how much do people actually tell the truth? So that's Consent by Jill Cement and Consent by Vanessa Springora. They're both very slim and tackling similar subjects.

[Jordan Loft]

My guest is Olivet and Get lit producer Jordan Law for talking about some great memoirs and biographies to read this summer. Especially if you're participating in our summer reading challenge. We want to hear your recommendations. What's a biography or a memoir you think is really great? Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to Lauren from Chappaqua and hear what she has to recommend. Hi, Lauren.

[Alison Stewart]

Hello. How are you? I'm so excited to be on the show. Great. I wanted to recommend a couple of memoirs that all depict old New York in some way. I grew up in New York City. One of them is Barbra Streisand's epically long memoir, which I listened to an audiobook and every time I got in the car felt like I was sort of driving around with my narcissistic friends who had fascinating stories. But really I got into it and then ended up watching all of her films. It's really fascinating to read about all the barriers she broke and a lot of the anti Semitism that she faced. Really a remarkable woman. Also, Isaac Mizrachi's memoir I am really depicting kind of goes back and forth between growing up in this Persian Jewish family in New York City and then going to LaGuardia High School and being exposed to that world. So fascinating. Of course, Patti Smith's memoir, Just Friends is such a classic and just a fascinating way to understand, like the art world in the 60s and their beautiful relationship that she had with Robert Mapplethorpe. And lastly, Carole King's memoir, Natural Woman is beyond fascinating because she was a successful businesswoman while being married like in her early 20s and somehow juggled family and the songwriting career and then her own career as a performer kind of going from the 50s to the 60s and like the world changed around her. Just a really fascinating story. So those are my four memoirs that all kind of depict New York City and also through the lives of incredibly fascinating people.

[Jordan Loft]

And I want to make sure it was Just Kids by Patti Smith.

[Alison Stewart]

Right? I'm sorry, what'd you say?

[Jordan Loft]

It's Just Kids by Patti Smith.

[Alison Stewart]

Right? Just Kids. Yes. All right. Just Kids. That's right.

[Jordan Loft]

Thanks for the recommendations. We really appreciate it.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you so much.

[Jordan Loft]

All right, we're going to go To Jason, who's calling in from Park Slope. Hey, Jason, how old are you? Hi.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm 12.

[Jordan Loft]

All right, let's hear what 12 year olds want to read.

[Alison Stewart]

So one of my favorite books of all time, probably my favorite book of all time is the Boy who Harnessed the Wind by William Kamkwamba. I really like it because he paints his entire journey from, like, when he's struggling with normal family life and the tragic famine that hits his small village in Africa and how he finally builds the windmill that exposes him to the world. My favorite part is. Hello?

[Jordan Loft]

Yeah, go for it.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, my favorite part is when he just describes every little part and how he builds the windmill, like with parts of his father's bicycle and he goes searching in the junkyard. And I really like how there are parts of heartbreak but also extreme happiness. And it just balances out really well and it makes me like the book a lot.

[Jordan Loft]

Jeezan, you are my hero.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm gonna be out of a job soon. I better watch out for you. Jason, that was such a great description of that book. I think there was a film adaptation of that as well, if I remember correctly. So maybe you enjoyed the movie also. But thank you for that. I love, I love to hear what the kids are reading.

[Jordan Loft]

We want to hear your recommendations. What biography or memoir do you think is just really great? Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have more. This is all of it. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is all of It. And get lit producer Jordan Law for talking about some of the great memoirs and biographies to read this summer, especially if you are participating in our summer reading challenge. This text says Lab Girl by Hope Jaron. It is so much about what average hard working scientists go through. This one says great memoir. Breakfast Wine with Alex Pope. P O P P E I'm not sure was just published this year. It's her story as an American woman teaching in Iraq and as a humanitarian aid volunteer in Kurdistan. Fascinating perspective and enlightened given the recent events in our world. That's Susie calling in from Red Bank, New Jersey. Let's get back to your list. The next memoir you're recommending is from the governor of Maryland Westmore. Before he was a politician, he wrote a best selling memoir. It's a really interesting story. I met him long time ago. I said, this guy is going somewhere.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. And you know what? This this memoir was actually, I went to Tufts University, and this was the book that they required everyone in the freshman class to read before we came to school. And then he came and spoke to us. And I remember being really sort of blown away by him. Yeah, I knew. We knew he was going places. Yeah. We discovered Westmore. Just kidding. But the Other Wes Moore is his memoir. It is excellent. It is about his life and the life of another young black man, also from Baltimore, around his age, who was also named Wes Moore. And Wes, the Wes Moore who is now the governor of Maryland, grew up to be a Rhodes scholar. And the other Wes Moore that he discovered, he found him through a paper that was advertising that he was wanted for, I believe, a murder. So Wes Moore, the governor, ends up striking up this pen pal relationship with this other man who has the exact same name, came from a very similar background. And the memoir sort of traces where did our lives diverge? How did we end up on these very different paths? What were the circumstances that brought us to these two different conclusions or two different outcomes of our lives so far? And are we really all that different? And could I have made one turn that brought me down this path? So it's a really moving and excellent book. And he's a great writer as well, as, you know, now a successful politician.

[Jordan Loft]

Okay, we're gonna end on a lighter note before we go to biographies. Just a fun book to take to the beach.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I really like Bossypants by Tina Fey. I know that came out a while ago, but it's, you know, it's not surprising that it's genuinely funny. Cause it's Tina Fey, but it is so great. And, you know, if you're a fan of SNL or you wanna read more about the comedy scene here in the. In the early 2000s in New York, it's a great read. A lot of people are rewatching 30 Rock right now. It's sort of having a renaissance online. A good excuse to pick up her memoir and learn more. And I just want to say, also, a lot of people have been shouting out New York memoirs if you've already hit your memoir and biography category. And you're like, oh, darn, I already read a book for that category. You could pick it up in a book set in New York, about her set in New York, which is another category. And Alison, I know you had another memoir.

[Jordan Loft]

You had a shout out. I would like to see your bossy pants and raise you Amy Poehler's yes, please.

[Guest Speaker]

A great team, those two.

[Jordan Loft]

It's all about her Boston upbringing, her getting to be part of the upright citizens brigade, her ability to stand up for her. In that memoir that I still use. Good for you, not for me.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, I love that you can say.

[Jordan Loft]

It nicely to somebody. Somebody wants you to do something, too. Good for you, not for me.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, there you go.

[Jordan Loft]

And her podcast is good, too. Let's talk to Jacob in Jersey City, who has a really interesting memoir to recommend. Hi, Jacob.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi. How are you?

[Jordan Loft]

I'm doing great.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. I want to recommend a book called the Loft Generation. It's by Edith Schloss, who was a German Jewish refugee, and she came to America and got involved in the New York art scene, you know, the abstract expressionists and all that. It's really interesting from a woman's point of view. And of course, the thing that you find interesting is that she was my mother.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh.

[Alison Stewart]

And. But even though she was my mother, I think it's a good book. And. Yeah.

[Jordan Loft]

Yeah. And that's what I have to say about that. Jacob, thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Anthony, who is calling in from Peekskill. Hi, Anthony, what do you recommend?

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, hello. On a lighter note of memoirs, I recommend if Chins Could Kill. Confessions of a B Movie Star by Bruce Campbell. It's really funny. It charts his life from like, high school days in Michigan in the 70s up to him getting big in Sam Raimi Spider man movies. And just. It's really, really funny. And he just talks about all things Hollywood with the most sarcastic wit B movie star could muster.

[Jordan Loft]

Thanks for the tip. And finally, let's talk to Nora in White Plains. Hi, Nora. Thanks for calling all of it.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi, Alison. The ones that come to mind, and they're all largely set in New York. I hadn't thought of that until the guest said that are Fred Hirsch's biography, a jazz piano called Good Things Happen Slowly, A Life in and out of jazz. And he was closeted when he began his professional career and came out during the course of it and how it changed his art and also had to deal with hiv, aids. It was a doctor who said to him, when nothing much had changed, that's a good thing. If it was something bad going on, it would be going on. But Good Things Happen Slowly. And Amir Thompson's Questloves biography or memoir, Mo Meta Blues, which was really fascinating. And also Judith Jamison, who died this last year, the dancer who was, for many years after her dancing career ended, the director or head of Alvin Ailey Dance Theater. Her book, Dancing Spirit, and the Last Call made me think of a hilarious memoir. I can't remember the man's name. The book was called When I Stop Talking, you'll Know I'm Dead. He was a promoter and producer with all these hilarious funny stories to tell about Hollywood and music, including rock music, and a really interesting life with a what seems like a fairly honorable polyamorous, you know, love life. So that just came to mind when the guy told the last funny book. That was a very funny book. When I Stop talking, you'll Know I'm Dead.

[Guest Speaker]

A great title goes so far for me, especially with memoirs, and that's a great one.

[Jordan Loft]

Let's go into biographies. I'm happy to recommend some bios. I know you're gonna point the finger at me, but what do you like about bios?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I really like that they give readers a sense of history through one personal lens. So it really helps you learn about the history of a period. But it feels so personal. And you get invested in the person's life and their story. Even if they weren't the best person, you can still find something to sort of relate to and hold onto. And you sort of incidentally learn all of this stuff. I'll talk about the Eleanor Roosevelt biography in a bit, but like, I learned so much about World War II in America at that time just through reading about her life. I like that it gives you a glimpse of history through this personal lens. And yes, I am going to turn it back on Allison, because Alison is the captain of our full bio series Ship, which is our series, if you don't know. A monthly series where we spend a great deal of time or Alison spends a great deal of time with a biographer about their subject. And I know you just finished our upcoming bio.

[Jordan Loft]

This is going to be interesting.

[Guest Speaker]

What is that one about? What can you tell us?

[Jordan Loft]

It's called Wild Things. It's about the artist Paul Gauguin. I just finished it last night. It's a very interesting take on a controversial painter. There are some say who say he fetishized women and girls he painted. But you learn so much more about his life, how he was a stockbroker. At one point he was indigent, at one point he was best friend when Vincent van Gogh cut off his ear. You learn all about his whole life and the author has new research to give sort of a broader texture to him. And it's really interesting because we've done these full bios and you really have to sit through the whole thing like people right away, like, get to the part about Tahiti and colonization. It's like, well, wait a minute. First we're gonna talk about this part of his life, that part of his life, and then we'll talk about that and we'll talk about it with this new context. I have to think about it for a few days.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jordan Loft]

But I'm looking forward to talking to the author.

[Guest Speaker]

Do you find it's harder to prep one when it's someone who might have done some things that we don't agree with?

[Jordan Loft]

Oh, for sure, for sure. You have to check yourself. You also have to check the author. Because many people fall in love, not in love, but they are enamored with the subject. They spent so much time, they so many pages, so much research, that they have an understanding of the person. And sometimes you have to step out a little bit and say, wait a second, what about this person's behavior? How to do it with J. Edgar Hoover? Quite a bit.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes, totally. I was thinking about that in terms of the Eleanor biography by David Michaelis, which you could tell he was really enamored of Eleanor, but he was also very explicit about her failings, about her anti Semitism at one point, about her racism, about how far she still had to go in terms of civil rights. And I really appreciated that the biography went there. And he wasn't afraid to say, like, sure, Eleanor Roosevelt had lots of racist views in her time, and she worked really hard to work on them. And I think both things can be true about someone, and you could admire a lot about someone and also be frank about their failings. And I think a good biography does both.

[Jordan Loft]

Let's talk to Mary in Manhattan. Hey, Mary, thanks for calling, all of it. Mary, are you there?

[Alison Stewart]

A book by Janet Wallach, and it's called Flirting with Danger. And it's about the first woman who was ever hired as a spy by the United States at the end of World War I. And she managed to get all kinds of information. She spoke several languages because she'd grown up wealthy. And her family would send her to one country for a year and then another country for a year until she became fluent. And they also had connections with everybody because they were wealthy. And so she was extremely successful until she got thrown in Lubianka, and to my astonishment, she was thrown in Lubianca twice and managed to stay alive. Very interesting book.

[Jordan Loft]

Thank you so much. Who else should we talk to in the control room? Oh, I got to see. This is a text that says NYC biographies. The power broker, Robert Moses, of course. And TIS by Frank McCourt. A great contrasting pair. What else did you want to talk about in terms of biographies?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. For people interested in ancient history, particularly ancient Rome, I really enjoyed Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy. It is very readable, incredibly readable. I did read it on the beach like a lunatic. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. It's really big. It's not what you would call a beach read, but it was so readable that I thought I could bring it on the beach. It's so thorough. And again, like we were saying, I learned so much about ancient Rome and life at that time, just through his life. And there was so many details about his story I didn't know. Did you know that he was kidnapped by pirates as a teenager?

[Jordan Loft]

I did not know that.

[Guest Speaker]

It's a crazy story that seems like something out of a fairy tale. But Caesar was legitimately captured by pirates as a teenager and spent some time with this, like, roving band of pirates. So you get into all the fascinating details of his life that have, you know, inspired creatives and Shakespeare and whoever through the centuries, but it's a really, really readable, digestible take on his life.

[Jordan Loft]

The one I really liked in terms of music was rem's biography.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jordan Loft]

Peter Ames Carlin. It was really interesting because it was of the moment. These are four people who are alive. They decided to make something great and then decided to end it. I mean, you really don't hear that about musicians.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Jordan Loft]

They each had distinct personalities. People focus on Michael Stipe, but the book was equally about Bill Barry, Mike Mills, and Peter Buck. It also discusses the origin of alt rock and the era of college radio, which is really about taste, not trends. And he was written by someone who loves the music.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jordan Loft]

Which is really important.

[Guest Speaker]

That seems important. And I wanted to ask you about another biography that you wanted to give a shout out to, Because I'm a huge baseball fan. It's baseball season and you, a few years ago, did this biography about Jackie Robinson, and I was curious, how did the biography teach you about Jackie Robinson the man and Jackie Robinson the baseball player? Because I assume you have to talk about both.

[Jordan Loft]

Yeah. It's a short biography. This is good. By Kostya Kennedy. Usually like 500. This is a short biography. It really showed how much grace he had as a black man in America. He broke the color barrier, obviously, in baseball, but he had to carry the weight of it his entire life. And it wasn't until he got older that he spoke out about MLB not having front Managers who were black. And it's a really interesting story. And by the way, I should point out, the Jackie Robinson Museum is at the. It's near us.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, right around the corner. Sort of newly ish opened.

[Jordan Loft]

Right, Newly ish opened. You can go and check it out. His wife, Rachel Robinson, just celebrated her 103rd birthday.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh my goodness.

[Jordan Loft]

Believe it or not, I met her a few years ago when I helped give out scholarships. The Jackie Robinson foundation gives out scholarships to kids and mentorship to kids. So anybody who's interested in baseball could also check that out as well. Yeah, it's a good bio.

[Guest Speaker]

That sounds great. I wanted to give a shout out too to a listener who wrote in texted us a couple weeks ago and I don't remember the listener's name. I couldn't find it. I apologize to this listener, but someone wrote in to tell us that they started reading the Marie Antoinette biography on my recommendation from a couple weeks ago. That one's by Antonia Fraser and that they were loving it and also reminded me that the Sofia Coppola movie Marie Antoinette starring Kirsten Dunst is actually based on the Antonia Fraser biography that I had read and recommended. And she said that it was amazing rewatching the Coppola movie. How actually faithful she was to the story that Antonia Frazier laid out in the biography. Because, you know, obviously it's got, I think there's like, you know, they're wearing Converse in it and there's pop music. So it's not fully historically accurate, but she said it really did sort of stick to the main events that Antonia Frazier lays out in the biography. So I want to give a shout out to that listener. Thank you for reading on my recommendation. I'm so glad you're liking it. And if anyone you know is looking for a Sofia Coppola movie night, you could do a little pairing.

[Jordan Loft]

This says, hi, my name is Tania, also from White Plains. If it's not too late and hasn't been mentioned yet, I highly recommend Trevor Noah's Born a Crime. I love this book and I'm now reading the Young readers edition with my 10 year old son. That's great.

[Guest Speaker]

Awesome.

[Jordan Loft]

There's a new biography about James Baldwin, a love story by Nicholas Boggs, being released on August 17th. Have we heard about that? I have a pre release copy that I bought at a special event. It was 30 years in research and the cooperation of Baldwin's heirs. It's brilliant. With much new information and new photographs. The audiobook is beautifully read and it will be.

[Guest Speaker]

Stay tuned It'll maybe be on our airwaves in September, maybe about a month or so. If you want to hear a more in depth conversation about that.

[Jordan Loft]

I also wanted to mention, just for fun, because it's Summer, the biography of Anna Wintour.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Jordan Loft]

And you know what? I wasn't sold on it, to be honest. Initially, when we first got it, I didn't really have an opinion of Anna Wintour, but I wanted to know more about her. I want to know how she amassed so much power and gifts, gain as much power as she did. And as I read it, I realized this is an authorized biography. That's how much power she has.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, wow.

[Jordan Loft]

To have an authorized biography. I understood her more. I'm not sure that. I'm not sure Anna Winter would happen now.

[Guest Speaker]

Probably not.

[Jordan Loft]

Right. But during the time she came up, her presence, her self presence of who she is, this is who I am, and take it or leave it was the way that she made the waves and it's the way she earned all of the power that she has.

[Guest Speaker]

Absolutely. And it's relevant right now, in fact, because around the city, the devil wears Prada 2 is currently filming. I've seen so many photos of Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep. You know, that character obviously is inspired by Anna Wintour filming all around the city. So if you're seeing those photos and getting excited about the movie, it sounds like this biography is a great one to pick up.

[Jordan Loft]

And the woman who wrote it also wrote the Gwyneth Paltrow biography that's coming out in Ardell.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, does it cover the ski. The infamous ski trial?

[Jordan Loft]

We'll have to see.

[Guest Speaker]

And we'll have to see it better.

[Jordan Loft]

All right. Were there any frequently asked questions that people had for you about the summer reading challenge? We get a lot of them. I know you answer as many as you can, but any you wanted to cover?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. So the biggest one is, how can I tell you what I'm reading? There are two different ways. If you haven't yet finished, but you are keeping track. You want to keep track of what you're reading. You're maybe you've read three or four. There's a PDF form online. So all of this you can [e-mail] summerreading if you want to fill out that PDF form, that's how you can sort of keep track for yourself of what you've been reading. You can also, you know, if you want to take a photo and share it with us on Instagram, we would love that. And you can tag us at all of it. WNYC if if you finished the challenge and you're eager to tell us what you read and also you really want to get your prize. I hear you. The form to fill out is now up on wnyc.org summerreading you can fill out the Google form, tell us what you read. I'm going to ask you to name every title and tell me a little bit about your favorite, why it was your favorite, and then you can maybe get your prize. I just genuinely didn't think people were going to finish this early, but that's on me. So the form is now up. It's available. You speed readers, you speed demons, go fill it out. I believe in you.

[Jordan Loft]

And for those of you who are listening to this conversation and you didn't catch somebody's name, a reminder, there are transcripts of this conversation. They will be on our website sometime in the very near future. Jordan Loff thanks for your recommendations.

[Guest Speaker]

Thanks so much. And thanks to our listeners.

[Alison Stewart]

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[Guest Speaker]

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[Jordan Loft]

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