All Of It – Season 2 of "The Retrievals" Seeks Solutions to Women's Surgical Pain

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Susan Burton, Journalist and Podcaster, Host of "The Retrievals"
Release Date: July 14, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, the spotlight shines on Season 2 of the award-winning podcast "The Retrievals." Susan Burton, the journalist and podcaster behind "The Retrievals," joins Alison to delve into the profound and often overlooked issue of severe pain experienced by women during cesarean sections (C-sections). The conversation navigates through personal narratives, medical practices, systemic challenges, and the quest for meaningful solutions.

Overview of "The Retrievals" Season 2

"The Retrievals" Season 2 marks a significant shift from its inaugural season, which exposed the harrowing experiences of women at a Yale fertility clinic where medications were stolen by a nurse, leaving patients in extreme pain. Season 2 broadens its investigative lens to explore the excruciating pain endured by women during C-sections and the systemic neglect that often accompanies their pleas for relief.

Susan Burton explains the transition to Season 2:

"The focus of these four episodes is not just that severe pain is a problem, but that people are trying to solve it" (02:57).

Key Topics Discussed

1. Pain During C-Sections: Experiences and Statistics

A central theme of the podcast is the variability and intensity of pain experienced during C-sections. While spinal blocks and epidurals are standard practices intended to mitigate pain, they sometimes fail, leaving patients in agonizing discomfort.

Susan Burton highlights the rarity and gravity of the issue:

"There's no other major surgery where 8% of patients feel significant pain during cesarean. There's no other major surgery where this happens" (06:00).

2. Impact of Untreated Pain on Patients

The repercussions of unmanaged pain extend far beyond the immediate surgical experience. Patients often grapple with long-term psychological trauma, including PTSD, which can haunt them for years.

Susan Burton emphasizes the prolonged impact:

"There's a lot of research on birth trauma and PTSD symptoms... the birthday of your own child can become a nightmare in a way" (06:25).

3. Changes in Operating Room Dynamics

Effective pain management during surgery isn't solely about administering the right medication; it's also about the interpersonal dynamics within the operating room. The ability of any team member to voice concerns is crucial for patient safety and care quality.

Susan Burton discusses the cultural shift:

"One of the most important changes... is there's now a culture where really, anyone in the room can say, stop. I have a concern" (09:44).

4. Dr. Heather Nixon's Role and Initiatives

Dr. Heather Nixon, head of obstetric anesthesia at UI Health Hospital in Chicago, emerges as a pivotal figure in addressing this crisis. Her dedication to ensuring that no patient endures untreated pain has led to significant departmental and systemic changes.

Susan Burton introduces Dr. Nixon's mission:

"Heather was determined to make sure that this couldn't happen again" (04:58).

5. Susannah Stanford's Advocacy

Susannah Stanford's personal traumatic experience with a painful C-section propelled her into advocacy. Her efforts have been instrumental in implementing systemic guidance in the UK, aimed at improving pain management during C-sections.

Susan Burton details Susannah's contributions:

"She set out to try to address this problem... she is partially responsible for implementing systemic guidance in the UK" (25:09).

6. Racial Disparities in Pain Management

The podcast touches upon the unsettling statistics that reveal racial disparities in pain management during C-sections. A study highlighted within the episode found that Black patients were five times more likely than white patients to report pain during C-sections.

Susan Burton sheds light on this inequity:

"Black patients were five times more likely than white patients to report pain during cesarean" (22:14).

Audience Participation: Listener Calls

In an engaging segment, the show features personal accounts from listeners who have experienced or witnessed pain during C-sections.

• Elizabeth from Brooklyn recounts her traumatic C-section experience where her pain was dismissed, leading to lasting emotional scars (15:29).
• Deborah from Park Ridge, New Jersey shares contrasting experiences of two C-sections—one handled compassionately and another where her pain was ignored (17:26).

Challenges in Addressing the Issue

The conversation reveals several obstacles in mitigating pain during C-sections:

• Communication Barriers: Patients often hesitate to voice their pain during surgery due to fear of disrupting the medical process.
• Team Dynamics: Hierarchical structures can prevent less senior staff from challenging decisions, hindering timely interventions.
• Lack of Awareness: Many healthcare providers are unaware of the prevalence and severity of pain during C-sections, contributing to its normalization.

Susan Burton underscores the need for cultural shifts:

"Healthcare providers don't want patients to be in pain... it's crazy that that was written [in 2006], but it's wonderful that people are doing something about it now" (26:35).

Solutions and Initiatives Implemented

Dr. Heather Nixon's efforts have led to concrete changes within her institution:

• Pain Scoring and Documentation: Anesthesiologists are now prompted at regular intervals to assess and document patients' pain levels, allowing for timely interventions.

  Susan Burton explains the significance:

  "It gives the patient an opportunity to speak up about pain... because there are a lot of reasons patients may not speak up" (23:44).

• Empowering Team Members: Encouraging a culture where any team member can voice concerns about a patient's well-being without fear of retribution.

• Training and Education: Implementing training programs to help healthcare providers navigate complex dynamics and prioritize patient pain management.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode of All Of It brings to light a crucial and often neglected aspect of women's healthcare. Through rigorous journalism and personal narratives, Susan Burton's "The Retrievals" Season 2 not only uncovers the depths of the problem but also highlights the tireless efforts of individuals striving to effect change. The discussion underscores the importance of empathy, effective communication, and systemic reforms in ensuring that no woman endures unnecessary pain during childbirth.

Susan Burton leaves listeners with a poignant message:

"Pain during cesarean is a problem, but there are things people can do about it. Most C sections, the pain is tolerable and limited to certain parts of the surgery" (28:59).

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Susan Burton (02:57): "The focus of these four episodes is not just that severe pain is a problem, but that people are trying to solve it."

• Susan Burton (06:00): "There's no other major surgery where 8% of patients feel significant pain during cesarean. There's no other major surgery where this happens."

• Susan Burton (09:44): "One of the most important changes... is there's now a culture where really, anyone in the room can say, stop. I have a concern."

• Susan Burton (22:14): "Black patients were five times more likely than white patients to report pain during cesarean."

• Susan Burton (28:59): "Pain during cesarean is a problem, but there are things people can do about it. Most C sections, the pain is tolerable and limited to certain parts of the surgery."

This thorough exploration of "The Retrievals" Season 2 on All Of It not only informs but also compels listeners to advocate for better pain management practices in obstetric care. By sharing real stories and expert insights, the episode serves as a catalyst for change in a critical aspect of maternal health.