← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
She Runs the World' Spotlights Olympian Allyson Felix
00:23:24
Allyson Felix is the most decorated Olympic track and field athlete in history. But when she got pregnant, her sponsor Nike said her value had declined.
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- [00:00]
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show will remember Sly Stone and Brian Wilson with journalist Alan Light. It's Father's Day this weekend, so we'll tee it up with your stories about your dad. And we'll cap off our conversations about the Tribeca Festival with a look at two documentaries. And we'll start with the film she Runs the World. Next month, track and field athlete Allyson Felix will be inducted into the 2025 U.S. olympic and Paralympic hall of Fame class. She has 11 Olympic medals total, seven gold, three silver and one bronze. It's a huge accomplishment for her, but perhaps second only to changing the way athletes are treated by their sponsors. The decorated sports star faced a battle with Nike for fair pay when she got pregnant and it was public. It's the subject a new documentary titled she Runs the World. The film introduces viewers to her family, her parents, her father's a minister, her mother's an elementary school teacher, her husband Kenneth, her brother Wes, who also serves as her agent at the peak of her career. He and Alison are shocked and then angered after she receives a new Nike contract, this time with a 70% pay reduction. What happens next? Well, you have to watch the film. She Runs the World is screening as part of the Tribeca Festival. It will be showing at Village east this Saturday, June 14th at 12.15pm Its directors, Perry Pelt and Matthew O' Neill join us in studio. It's so nice to have you in studio.
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Perry Peltz
Thank you so much for having us.
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Alison Stewart
So Perry, prior to this battle, everybody saw Alison Felix in these Nike ads. What did she mean to young women who were in sports? And also what was her reputation?
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Perry Peltz
So Alyson is the most decorated track and field athlete ever in history. More than Carl Lewis, more than Usain Bolt. Like she's extraordinary and she was the most forward facing track athlete for Nike. So her face was all over the place. She means a lot. And you know, the battle that you set up, Alison, that you're talking about really changed the way that the world saw her and saw somebody who was Able to stand up and fight for a woman's right to make choices and not have to choose between motherhood and having a career.
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Alison Stewart
Matthew, a lot of people are familiar.
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Matthew O'Neill
With Alison Felix's story and her dispute with Nike.
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Alison Stewart
What did you want to approach in.
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Matthew O'Neill
This film differently than what we've read in the headlines?
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Allyson Felix
Well, I think what the film does that goes way beyond the headlines is you get to. To know Alison as a person and you go deep into what motivates her. Because there's something like almost a mystery is how is this young woman who wants nothing but to run fast and win gold medals, suddenly turn into a sort of world class activist after being a world class athlete? You know, some of us might have been marching in college or attending protests or thought that we were gonna get in politics when we were 20 years old. That wasn't Alison. Alison wanted to just run and do the best she could at track and field. But when faced with a situation that she thought was wrong, she followed her moral compass. And there's a big element of morality and faith in this.
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Matthew O'Neill
Let's hear a little bit of Alison's story and we'll ramp it up a little bit. She didn't actually mean to be an Olympic athlete.
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Perry Peltz
How funny is that?
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Alison Stewart
She just liked to run.
- [04:18]
Perry Peltz
You know, Alison, it's so interesting because we expected the first day that we met Alison's parents. We, we were expecting to meet tiger parents. Who else would have a child that would achieve this kind of Olympic fame? They are anything but. And to them, if she was right with God, she was good. They wanted her. That was what mattered in their family. So this was not the kind. This was not the way that Alison was raised to be an athlete. It was something that she completely stumbled into. She showed up at a new high school and she didn't have any friends. And her parents said, you know what? Why don't you go out for the track team and you'll meet some people that way. She showed up, as her coach points out in the film, she's wearing basketball sneakers. She has the wrong clothes on. This was not the plan for Alison Felix to be an Olympic star at all.
- [05:15]
Alison Stewart
I wanted to ask about God. I'm glad she brought it up. She's wearing a cross often. Her father's a minister. When you talk to the family, Matthew, what is the role of God in their life? What is the role of religion in Allison's belief system, in herself?
- [05:35]
Allyson Felix
I think, obviously her father is a pastor. And one of the things that Pat Connolly, her first Coach shared is that she saw the power of prayer for the first time in watching Alison, because she does pray before each race. And she is reflective. Faith is part of her decision making. Also that that family role that everyone is involved in, this sense of trying to find moral clarity and doing the right thing. And so that religion is a big part of it, but not in the sense that she's evangelical or preaching. Much more in the sense that she has this strong moral core that informs every decision and ultimately leads her to stand up not only for herself, but also for other women track and field athletes.
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Alison Stewart
There are so many great family photos in this.
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Matthew O'Neill
Perry, what was one that you saw and you thought, oh, this has got to be the documentary.
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Perry Peltz
Okay, so let me begin by saying there was 376 hours of archival footage. So let's just put that out there. And for a story that's really, as you know, Alison, a story that's largely happened in the past, really hard to tell that story. And so that was its own, its own blessing. However, there's one clip that you'll see in. And as you know, the relationship between Alison and her brother is singular. You know, it's an extraordinarily close relationship. And he becomes Alison's manager and agent. But there's a wonderful clip where Alison as a baby, baby, baby, maybe four or five months old, sitting on her mom's lap crying. Wes is two plus two in a couple of months. And the mom says to Wes, wes, help. Your sister's crying. And she does. And this is all this wonderful video that we have. And Wes does this dance and he tries to make Alison laugh. And then he sits down and he grabs a microphone that was sitting there or something that looked like a microphone, and he starts talking baby talk to her and the tears stop and she starts to giggle and laugh. And it is the beginning of what you see as an extraordinary relationship and a guiding force that ultimately takes them through the Nike dispute.
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Matthew O'Neill
That was so interesting because he describes that they were 20 somethings and people really weren't taking them that seriously. How did they handle that, Matthew?
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Allyson Felix
I think the same way they handled sort of each step along this career path, which is saying, we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it together. And even though they were being excluded, maybe dismissed by certain elements of the track and field industry at that time, they just kept going. It's the same thing that happened when they wound up going public with their dispute with Nike. They weren't taking in a lot of advice or feedback from people involved in the status quo of the industry. They went with their gut and what they thought was right.
- [08:33]
Alison Stewart
A film showing at the Tribeca Film Festival follows the challenges of decorated track and field star Allyson Felix. Its directors Perry Peltz and Matthew o' Neill are here and soon to discuss their new documentary, she Runs the World. All right, let's talk about Alison and Nike in the beginning. In the beginning, it was pretty good.
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Perry Peltz
Oh, it was great.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah.
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Perry Peltz
You know, for Alison, this was huge. She was young Nike. You know, you spoke about Alison, about the fact that no one would talk to them when Wes became her agent, and then he gets the call from Nike, and Nike is it right? That is the gold standard. And so they were thrilled and Nike sent an airplane and they, you know, with the family and they flew, flew out to Nike headquarters and they arrived and there were air pods and there were sneakers with her name on it and pictures. That's big stuff at any age, let alone for a woman in her early 20s. So Nike was it. She loved the relationship with Nike. And I want to be clear because I think sometimes you want to make sure that, yes, Alison got a lot out of that relationship, and they got a lot out of her. It worked. So it was a wonderful relationship for a very long time. And that's why at the, you know, when the contract comes with the 70% reduction after she had, you know, she was still really at the peak of her career, even though she was on the older side, just to. Just to be. Just to be clear about that, it hurt. And she thought, she said, they no longer believed in me. And I think that was. That was a really pivotal turning moment emotionally for her.
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Alison Stewart
That's interesting that she said, no longer believed in me. They no longer believed in me. Why did that matter to her so much?
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Allyson Felix
I think it mattered to her at the beginning of the relationship, too. You know, that signing up with Nike was a sense that this big brand believed in her, and that gave her. Girded her in her athletic pursuits. So the loss of that faith, especially at that point in her career, she knew that she had another Olympics in her. And that's like another twist in the story as it goes on. But she knew in her core she had another Olympics. She believed in herself. And to have her brand partner essentially express in this way that she wasn't worth anywhere near what she was worth just coming off of Rio, where I think she won two golds and a silver, was pretty devastating.
- [11:03]
Alison Stewart
Now, did you reach out to Nike for this documentary?
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Perry Peltz
We did Reach out to Nike. And I don't know, Matt, how would you characterize it? Right. They, they.
- [11:12]
Allyson Felix
The truth in this story is that Nike changed their policies and led the industry in changing the policies and did the right thing, which is really important because it' example of how one person can speak up and make change. And you see in the film their responses in real time to the events that that occurred. And it is very similar their response now in terms of what happened and what they changed. And now because of Allison, because of the changes that Nike implemented in the aftermath of that public dispute. Track and field women athletes across Nike sponsorships are well supported and other companies.
- [11:54]
Perry Peltz
Followed suit, which was also really rewarding.
- [11:58]
Matthew O'Neill
It's interesting, though, because you broaden it out and you talked to other athletes before this all happened and they were like, it's just the way it was. It's just the way it was.
- [12:08]
Perry Peltz
Yes, that's exactly right. And I think that when you say that, you also realize it's the way it is for so many women.
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Matthew O'Neill
Yeah.
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Perry Peltz
And so many women. And especially obviously in athletics, when there's a physical element to what you can actually do, it takes on a little bit of a different note. But I think for so many women, there's a choice between motherhood and career. And Alison understood, she says it in the. You know, you see her say it in the film that this is the way it was. She saw her teammates hide their pregnancies. Is this what was going to become this what I was going to start to.
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Matthew O'Neill
Well, she did hide it in the show.
- [12:48]
Perry Peltz
Absolutely. Absolutely, she did hide it. And then there was a moment for her where she said, you know what? I don't want to make that choice. I want to fight for what's right. I want to fight for the ability to go and take a maternity leave, take care of myself, and then come back and return to my job. Whether she could have done it is a different matter. That's not what she was arguing for. She was arguing for the chance to have the protections that most women in this country are awarded as a matter of law.
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Matthew O'Neill
What was that Nike changed in the contract to include the fact that it could include women who were pregnant because they were kind of. Kind of give her a little bit of a slide there for a minute. Like, yeah, you can take 12 months off.
- [13:33]
Allyson Felix
Well, that. That was what would happen is that the. There was essentially two years where Allison was out there without a contract with her face on the Nike brand, not getting any money as they worked through this. And that's what they would pause the contracts. And pausing a contract means not getting paid. And Wes and Allison talk about this in detail in the film is that she was in it to win it and in it in training throughout her pregnancy so that she could go back to the Olympics and go back to the world championships. And I think that in part of her transformation, you also have to remember that she almost died during pregnancy. And that's a really critical part of the story. And also why healthcare matters and maternity rights matter.
- [14:21]
Matthew O'Neill
That was interesting. During her pregnancy, everything's going along great, Perry. But then and she's like, I'm gonna go to the family center. I'm gonna have a great birth. And she winds up actually in the hospital. What happened to Allyson Felix when she was first pregnant?
- [14:36]
Perry Peltz
So it's a great question. So she's now at about she's having a great pregnancy. We see her at the 20 week checkup and she's at than and she says to her mom, you know, my ankles little swollen. It was a first time pregnancy. Like lots of weird stuff happens when you're pregnancy when you're pregnant, including things swell. She said she had no idea that there was anything wrong. And her mom looks at her ankles and says, something's not right. And so Allison goes to the doctor for a checkup and all of a sudden they start monitoring her. Alison had a condition that's called preeclampsia. It is high blood pressure. In layman's terms, it is very, very, very dangerous. Alison had no idea what preeclampsia was. And to your point when the doctor says we're going to run some more tests and she says, well, I'm going to go doctor, I'm going to go do this over here and then I'll come back. And they're like, no, no, no, no, that's not what's going to happen here. And that's the moment where all of a sudden she realizes that this is really, really, really serious. And she goes on and has a life threatening emergency C section and delivery. And Cami Little Cameron was in the NICU for close to six weeks.
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Alison Stewart
That was difficult to watch those videos of her. Just like she's been in the hospital this many days. She's been in the hospital this many days. That must have been incredibly hard for her.
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Allyson Felix
For anyone who's had a baby in the nicu, it is an extremely trying experience. And again, doing it without the support at that point she had the support of her family. She had the support of her wonderful Husband Kenny. But she was, you know, flying without a parachute when it came to her sponsor.
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Alison Stewart
We're talking about the film she Runs the World, with its directors, Perry Peltz and Matthew o' Neill. I want to talk about Alison's training a little bit. She gets Bob Kersey to be her coach. He's sort of famous for doing his magic. When she first started out, what did he see in her? And what did he see that he could improve in her because she was already fast. But he. But she hadn't gotten the gold medal yet.
- [16:55]
Perry Peltz
That's exactly right. So Alison, at that point had two silver medals from the Olympics and was miserable. If I just for clarity, like, if I ever made it to the Olympics, even as a spectator, I applaud myself. However, in Alice, and she had won the silver medal first as an 18 year old, and then she was so young in that. She was so young. And did you know Ms. Allison, she didn't take a victory lap. That's how upset she was. But she says, okay, I'll come back and I'll fix it the next Olympics. And she comes in second again. And so to that end, and she points out, like, we're talking about fractions of a second that can make be the difference between silver and gold. So she hires Bob Kersey, and Bob Kersey looks at all of it and says, we can fix this, and you're gonna take home three or four gold medals. Well, of course, we know that that's actually not what happens, but Alison at that point was really desperate to make this. To make this change. And you see the incredible training. And I know it's really hard on radio to understand that the jump that she makes from the ground, the standing jump.
- [18:06]
Allyson Felix
The standing jump, that's over her height. It's at the Tribeca, all these audiences.
- [18:09]
Matthew O'Neill
Every time it goes, that jump is amazing.
- [18:13]
Perry Peltz
Isn't that something?
- [18:14]
Alison Stewart
It's also interesting.
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Matthew O'Neill
If you look at it carefully at her physique, it changes a little bit. You know what? She kind of goes from being a.
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Alison Stewart
Kid, she doesn't have any baby fat.
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Matthew O'Neill
We shouldn't say that. But she suddenly appears, I don't know, more confident.
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Alison Stewart
I thought after she's working with Bob Kearcey, I don't know, she feels stronger.
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Matthew O'Neill
There was something in her that looked different.
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Allyson Felix
Well, she did an incredible amount of strength training.
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Alison Stewart
Strength training, yeah.
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Allyson Felix
And that's one of the things, you know, you think of running as just running, but you see how incredibly strong she is with that standing ju. She's doing the weightlifting. She had a tenacity to building her strength as an athlete. That was next level.
- [18:53]
Matthew O'Neill
When you looked at all that footage, when did you see her break a little bit because she's so stoic on the track afterward. But was there one race where she broke a little bit, where you just saw it come out in her that she's either happy or she's ecstatic or something like that?
- [19:12]
Perry Peltz
The ecstatic came with that first gold medal, Olympics three. Now, like her third try at the Olympics. And then of course, fast forwarding a little bit when she qualified for her final Olympics after having a Caesarean section after the nightmare of little Cameron's early, early months, as well as the delivery. That's the moment where you see she has this emotional moment of this is what it means to be successful.
- [19:46]
Matthew O'Neill
What do you think she means it means to her to be successful now?
- [19:50]
Perry Peltz
Oh, it's a totally different thing, Alison. It's so interesting. So she starts her journey. I wanted to run fast and win medals. She had zero interest in being an activist. She talks about the fact that she didn't want to even ever speak up. She wanted to be, quote, unquote, in line. Now, being successful means a whole different thing. And you see at the end, she doesn't win the gold when she returns to the Olympics, but it's the success that she was looking for, which is she came back on her terms.
- [20:20]
Alison Stewart
She also came back an activist for women's mortality, maternal mortality and care. During maternal care. Explain to us. Explain to us a little bit about the work that she does now.
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Allyson Felix
She has become such an incredible voice for maternal health in the United States. And we are in the middle of an ongoing public health crisis when it comes to maternal mortality. We're worst in the industrialized world. Some of our states are particularly bad. And black women are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth on top of that already dismal rate of maternal death.
- [21:01]
Alison Stewart
Serena Williams.
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Allyson Felix
Yeah, exactly. And it crosses across wealth and education. It is something that needs to be dealt with and can be dealt with. And Alison has become an incredible voice for change.
- [21:14]
Perry Peltz
Just to add in Allison that one of Alison's teammates, Tori Bowie, one year after Allison had her challenging delivery, died in childbirth. Unacceptable in this country.
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Alison Stewart
When you think about, after working on this documentary for so long, what are some of the disparities that women in sports still face?
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Perry Peltz
Well, this problem isn't resolved. Alison's work certainly led the way. And there are several sports. Women's soccer, women's tennis, and basketball that really followed suit. However, there are still lots of sports where this didn't happen. So there's still a lot of work to happen as far as maternal rights go so that women know that they can take the time off, still get paid and return to their jobs and not hide their pregnancies. You know, one of the things that women we don't know definitively did, working hard, you know, doing what she was doing while she was pregnant, those intense workouts, the running, did that cause her blood pressure to go up? We don't know. We can't make that connection. But we can sure say that it was a stressful situation and the incidence of preeclampsia in women athletes is high. So we've got to, you know, the point that Allison is trying to make is that we have to have a world in which these women can take time off and then know that there's a job waiting for them to return.
- [22:43]
Alison Stewart
So what's Allison Felix doing now today?
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Matthew O'Neill
I think she's general.
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Allyson Felix
I think she's actually on a plane right now. But she has continued to like, surge forward. She has this, she has the company that she launched in her own shoes. She won those last two medals in 2021, a company called Seiche, that's a sneaker company made for women. Because that it's a lot to go into now. But there's a twist in the document in the documentary that tells you a lot about the way sneakers are made.
- [23:12]
Perry Peltz
Are sneakers made for women? We'll leave it there.
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Allyson Felix
And also has a brand and marketing company for women athletes called Always Alpha that's meant to address some of the things that she saw in her career with freshlight and in a new Way.
- [23:28]
Matthew O'Neill
Perry Peltz and Matthew o' Neill are the directors of she Runs the World at screening as part of the Tribeca Festival and will be showing tomorrow at Village East, Saturday, June 14th at 12:15pm thank you for joining us in studio.
- [23:43]
Allyson Felix
Thank you, Alison.
- [23:44]
Perry Peltz
ALISON thank you so much.
- [23:46]
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