Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: Small Stakes, Big Opinions: Dogs in NYC
Air Date: April 13, 2026
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Rachel Sugar (Reporter, Author of "Where Does a Dog Belong?" for New York Magazine’s Curbed)
Main Theme: Negotiating the boundaries, roles, and cultural meanings of dogs—and their owners—across New York City’s increasingly shared urban spaces.
Episode Overview
This episode digs into the rising tensions around dogs in New York City, particularly after a harsh winter saw a spike in dog waste complaints, unleashed dogs, and broader cultural debates over the shifting role of dogs in city life. Through Alison Stewart's insightful hosting, guest Rachel Sugar’s reporting, and a lively array of listener calls, the episode explores how these "little dog battles" tap into much larger questions: Who gets to shape public space? What constitutes a family? And how do our attitudes toward dogs reflect the changing culture of New York itself?
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Problem Isn't Really the Dogs—It's the People
[04:03-05:01] Rachel Sugar:
- The debate about dogs spotlights bigger issues than just pets—it’s about "who gets space in the city, who’s entitled to what, who’s kind of trampling over whose needs."
- Rachel confesses her own dog license lapsing, despite being a "pathological rule follower."
- The winter brought a sharp rise in dog-related complaints, especially waste, but also a more general “reshuffling of the world order” post-pandemic, as people reevaluate their relationships with dogs and public spaces.
Quote:
"I love a story that's not about what it seems to be about... and so I think, like, the amount of passion that dogs inspire on kind of all sides is not—I mean, right. There are people who really love dogs and people who really hate dogs... but I think it's really about who gets space in the city..." — Rachel Sugar [04:03]
Are There More Dogs—or More Dog Entitlement?
[05:05-07:21] Rachel Sugar:
- Reliable data on the city’s dog population is scarce; most dogs aren’t licensed.
- What’s changed isn’t just the number of dogs, but the attitude: dogs are now more visible in places they’d have been excluded from a few years ago—cafes, grocery stores, subways, even bars.
- Rachel posits much of this is fallout from the pandemic, as people’s routines and expectations shifted.
What Are New Yorkers Complaining About?
[08:38-11:47] Rachel Sugar & Callers:
- Common complaints include:
- Dog waste left on streets (especially bad during the cold 2025-26 winter).
- Dogs running off-leash in inappropriate areas.
- Dogs in hospitality spaces, forcing staff to navigate blurry rules and the sensitivities of patrons, including those with legitimate service animals.
- A perceived imbalance, as people will “dote on dogs but not help a struggling parent.”
Quote:
"...watching somebody pet a dog and coo over this dog while you’re sort of a mom struggling with a stroller, trying to get into a business, and people are just watching you struggle and feeling like, that's weird. Like, why could we not be so kind to other people?" — Rachel Sugar [10:38]
Listener Stories: Dogs "Everywhere," for Better or Worse
- Sarah (Upper West Side): Describes dogs running loose at a children’s baseball game, stealing equipment, and parents exasperated at the lack of control (and dog waste everywhere this winter). [11:56-13:00]
- Patrick (Queens): Lifelong dog lover, but argues dogs shouldn’t be at farmer’s markets; “they don’t enjoy it” and often become reactive. Warns against dragging dogs everywhere. [13:32-13:57]
- Lourdes (Manhattan): Began bringing her dog to Mass during the pandemic. Now, with permission, continues to attend church accompanied by her pet. [14:07-15:13]
Defining Family, Redefining Space
[15:13-18:46] Rachel Sugar:
- Anecdote: A dog owner at a playground tells a parent, “You’re here with your family. I'm here with my family.”
- Rachel discusses the evolving notion of family, with dogs as bona fide (if furry) members—a shift from mere “pets” to “children.”
- The challenge: Cities aren’t designed for interspecies families, leading to friction when needs genuinely collide.
Quote:
“There’s this idea—no, my dog is part of my family. Like, a person is part of my family. They truly sort of have a similar status... what is a New York built for the interspecies family?” — Rachel Sugar [15:32]
Competing Texts: The Poles of the Debate
[19:05-20:13] Alison Stewart:
- Text from a dog owner: Dogs are often better-behaved than children; banning dogs from spaces is "small-minded, selfish, and cruel."
- Text from a non-dog owner: No dogs (except service) in museums, groceries, etc.; complaints about dog owners intimidating staff who try to enforce rules.
Service Dogs, Disabilities, and Dog Etiquette
- Abigail (Brooklyn): Longtime service dog handler; credits service dogs for her independence. But laments the rise of "ill-behaved" animals, especially in public spaces, which can undermine access for genuine service dogs. [20:21-21:59]
- Rachel clarifies the rules: Non-service dogs on subways must be in bags or containers. [22:04-22:22]
- Alison shares seeing a German shepherd on a subway causing visible distress among passengers. [22:42-23:07]
Quote:
“The responsibility for me as the handler is to keep [the dog] under control. But when there are other animals on the subway, in a restaurant and their humans are not keeping them in check... it can be stressful.” — Abigail [21:00]
Changing Perspectives and Dog Owner Responsibility
- Chemain (Long Island City): Shares her transformation from dog-avoidant to enthusiastic dog owner, now sympathetic to the joys (and minor inconveniences) dogs bring to city life. [24:25-26:09]
- On Rules vs. Norms: Rachel and Alison discuss how official rules (leashes, "pooper scooper" laws) can be at odds with local norms—for example, off-leash times in parks are routinely ignored or “creatively” reinterpreted by regulars. [33:54-35:45]
- Dog Waste Laws: The famous pooper-scooper law wasn’t enacted until the 1970s—before then, cleaning up after your dog was considered bizarre. [35:08-35:47]
Race, Gentrification, and Dogs as Cultural Signals
[26:09-29:02] Rachel Sugar:
- A listener texts about “racial and racist double standards” in how dog (and space) rules get enforced—some see the proliferation of dog parks as a sign of gentrification.
- Rachel admits poor data, but notes that dog ownership has long been unevenly distributed by race in the U.S. Dogs, and debates about them, often become a proxy for deeper issues of class, race, and urban change.
Quote:
“In the public imagination... it’s rich white people coming in with their designer dogs and, you know, trampling all over everybody. You know, I think that’s like a very real feeling.” — Rachel Sugar [27:24]
The Experience of Dog Ownership Across Cultures and Neighborhoods
- Camilla (Bed Stuy): As a Black woman with a large German shepherd, she feels racialized scrutiny and sometimes “parented” by other (often white) dog owners. Public reaction to her dog depends on neighborhood and local culture. [35:53-37:10]
Not Everyone Can Tolerate Dogs
- Paula (White Plains): Allergic to dog saliva; recounts struggles with breathing around dogs in public transport or close quarters, and the insensitivity of some dog owners. Compares it to the anti-smoking movement: why must others suffer? [29:09-30:24]
The Big Question: What Even Is a Rule?
- Mark (Pleasantville): Dog owner who finds joy in the “rule-breaking” nature of the era—if we put up with antisocial people in public, why not more dogs? [30:32-31:19]
- Owen (LA): Draws the distinction between children and dogs—society demands different responsibilities from their caretakers. [31:27-32:21]
Notable Quotes
- “Is it different? It's really hard to say. The data... is pretty bad. But what we do know is that there's a sense that dogs are kind of invading people places, that dogs are showing up in places that they might not have shown up 10, 20... years ago.” — Rachel Sugar [05:05]
- "It feels like something has shifted. And I think it's less about numbers than about attitude." — Rachel Sugar [07:19]
- "The complainer... just accepted that, and everyone went on... it didn't escalate beyond that. So... it's tricky. It is this sort of point of renegotiation. And what does a family look like? And what do you do when it... doesn't fit what the city is built for?" — Rachel Sugar [17:56]
- "If somebody has to move, like who has to move? ...Should you have to have that conversation? I don't know." — Rachel Sugar [23:07]
- "If you as the dog owner are kind of doing the thing where you're pushing... the boundaries, then I think it's kind of on you to bend back." — Rachel Sugar [32:47]
- “The more... dog owners are reasonable and pleasant about it, the easier it is to justify pushing the boundaries, and the nicer it is for other dog owners. I think the issue with dog waste this winter and the anger about it was really bad for responsible dog owners because then everybody hates your dog." — Rachel Sugar [32:50]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Intro & Setting up the Debate: [01:38-04:03]
- Rachel Sugar on Reporting the Story: [04:03-05:01]
- Data & Dog Population: [05:05-07:21]
- Nature of Complaints: [08:38-11:47]
- Listeners’ Dog Stories: [11:47-15:13]
- Family & Belonging: [15:13-18:46]
- Listener Message Poles: [19:05-20:13]
- Service Dogs and ADA: [20:21-22:04]
- Rules on Dogs in Public Transport: [22:04-23:07]
- Norms vs. Rules (Leashes, Waste): [33:54-35:45]
- Race, Gentrification, and Dog Ownership: [26:09-29:02]
- Allergies and Exclusion: [29:09-30:24]
- Cultural Differences & Scrutiny: [35:53-37:10]
- Final Thoughts & Takeaways: [37:21-38:13]
Episode Takeaways
- No Single Solution: The tensions surrounding dogs in NYC cannot be easily resolved by legislation or one-size-fits-all solutions; the city’s evolving attitudes about dogs reflect deeper cultural changes.
- Dogs as Cultural Barometers: More than “just pets,” dogs in the city highlight questions of privilege, belonging, race, and even definitions of family.
- Responsibility Matters: Dog owners—especially those stretching the rules—should err on the side of generosity toward those sharing the city, whether due to allergies, fear, or simple preference.
- Norms Are Always Shifting: Much of today’s “dog debate” in NYC arises from evolving, sometimes unspoken, community norms that often don’t align perfectly with written rules.
Host Alison Stewart’s closing message:
"I think this idea of sort of what constitutes a family and sort of watching this be renegotiated in real time is totally fascinating... if everybody was nice and thoughtful about their community... I really don't think there's a sharper takeaway than that." — Rachel Sugar [37:31]
For the full range of perspectives, anecdotes, and thoughtful debate, listen to the entire episode of "All Of It with Alison Stewart," featuring Rachel Sugar and the voices of New Yorkers wrestling with the small stakes—and big opinions—of dogs in the city.
