Podcast Summary: All Of It – Steve Martin & Alison Brown on ‘Safe, Sensible, and Sane’

Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guests: Steve Martin and Alison Brown

Overview

In this episode of All Of It, Alison Stewart sits down with Grammy-winning banjoists Steve Martin and Alison Brown to discuss their new collaborative album, Safe, Sensible, and Sane. Together they dive into the creative process behind the album, the banjo’s evolving place in American music, their musical approaches, and anecdotes from their remarkable careers. Highlighted by live in-studio banjo performances and tracks from the new record, the conversation is lively, warm, and candid.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Inspiration of the Album

• The collaboration grew organically—songs emerged one at a time with no deliberate “theme” but later revealed an arc (03:54):
  • Alison Brown: “We wrote these songs kind of one at a time without a specific theme or a specific agenda… but I do think there’s an arc. I mean, the record starts off with just the two banjos talking to each other, just a little banjo conversation, and then builds up...” (03:54)
  • The album features genre-spanning banjo pieces, from bluegrass, bossa nova, to calypso and Irish influences.

2. Exploring Banjo Styles: Clawhammer vs. Three-Finger

• Alison Brown recounts being inspired by Steve Martin’s clawhammer style (02:09):
  • Alison Brown: “I hadn’t thought about that style too much or realized how versatile it was until I really started collaborating with Steve…” (02:09)
• Steve demonstrates how clawhammer differs from three-finger, emphasizing their complementary approaches (02:43).

3. Reimagining Traditional Tunes: 'New Cluck Old Hen'

• The duo reworked the Appalachian standard "Cluck Old Hen", not only creating new lyrics but intentionally removing problematic, misogynistic themes (04:29):
  • Steve Martin: “I thought, geez, I hate to waste this beautiful melody on a lyric that, to me, was kind of fun, but a little silly… So I reimagine it… Then we realized the song was a little bit misogynist, so we fixed that with Della Mae.” (04:29–05:13)
• Aoife O’Donovan provides vocals on the version played.

4. Genre Experiments: Banjo Meets Bossa Nova

• “Michael” is highlighted for blending banjo with bossa nova, led melodically by Alison and lyrically by Steve:
  • Alison Brown: “I had a melody... and Steve was really intrigued by it... he really imagined a whole story...” (07:09)
  • Aoife O’Donovan and Sarah Jarosz provide vocals and harmony (09:55).

5. Writing Lyrics for Music

• Steve describes the learning process for writing lyrics, sharing a funny anecdote about advice from banjo legend Earl Scruggs (10:10):
  • Steve Martin: “I could write a song for the banjo, but I couldn’t figure out how to overlay lyrics… [Earl said] ‘I just play the melody.’ And I go, oh, so I can write a song and then write lyrics to my melody.” (10:10)

6. Banjo Performance: "Let's Get Out of Here"

• A live in-studio performance demonstrates the interplay of their banjos and playful musical chemistry (11:08–12:46):
  • Steve Martin: “It is so much fun to play with Alison. It just really is.” (12:50)
  • Alison Brown: “I catch you, Steve.” (12:52)

7. Their Musical Journeys

• Alison’s route through Harvard, an MBA, investment banking, and founding Compass Records before dedicating herself to banjo (13:11–13:53).
• Steve’s teenage fascination with the banjo and the misadventures of learning the wrong type at first (14:12):
  • Steve Martin: “I didn’t realize there were two types of banjo… trying to play bluegrass on a four-string, which is impossible…” (14:12)

8. Banjo Lore: Instruments, Favorites, and Craftsmanship

• Both reveal personal banjo collections (15:36, 16:22).
• Alison explains her favorite banjo’s origin—a Czech luthier who braved Soviet restrictions to learn from Earl Scruggs by smuggled book (15:47–16:07).
• Steve discusses banjo decoration and why you need an instrument “everywhere you go” (16:11–16:33).

9. Meaning of the Title: ‘Safe, Sensible, and Sane’

• The title comes from a 1930s letter writing manual; Steve thought the list of phrases sounded musical:
  • Steve Martin: “There was one section that listed these phrases… Safe, Sensible and Sane was one. Anyway, there was a whole list and I thought they sounded like music lyrics so I copied them out…” (17:09–17:46)
• Both reflect that the title unintentionally aligns with contemporary longing for stability (18:20).

10. Reflections on Time: “Dear Time” with Jackson Browne

• Steve wrote with a sense of acceptance and reflection, looking back over life at age 80 (18:45):
  • Steve Martin: “There’s an adage for writers, write what you know. And I thought I should be able to look back in a way and put it into song. And I thought of the tone I wanted. I didn’t want it to be angry. I wanted it to be accepting…” (18:45)
  • Song features personal, universal imagery (“throw the ball with my old dog one more time”) (20:09).
  • Alison Brown: “It’s poignant… I think it’s a pretty universal feeling...” (20:09)

11. Humor & Banter

• Steve’s wit throughout, including on Martin Short’s musical ability (21:30):
  • "He has one, no interest and two, no ability." (21:30)
• Alison and Steve's warmth for each other and shared joy in music.

12. Closing with Live Banjo: “Swing Song”

• The episode closes with another live banjo duet (21:57–end).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Banjo Collaboration & Innovation

• Alison Brown: “The record starts off with just the two banjos talking to each other, just a little banjo conversation…” (03:54)
• Steve Martin: “She’s really the leader in those different styles.” (03:20)

On Reworking Old Songs for Today

• Steve Martin: “And then we realized the song was a little bit misogynist, so we fixed [that].” (05:13)

On Life’s Choices

• Alison Brown: “I just didn’t have as much of an affinity for tax exempt as I did the music of Earl Scruggs.” (13:24)

On Banjo Addiction

• Steve Martin: “When I first started learning to play, I’d get a banjo and put one in every room, so no matter where I went, I didn’t have to go back to the other end of the house to get it to help me learn.” (16:33)

On Title Inspiration

• Steve Martin: “I said, Alison, these sound to me like music lyrics. And she arranged them so they could kind of rhyme and then she set them to this, their, you know, calypso sound. And the truth is they’re nonsense. But Jason Mraz, we all agree that the more we sing them, the more sense they make.” (17:58)

On Nostalgia and Time

• Steve Martin: “I go back with Jackson Brown to when we’re 17… we did a video at the Troubadour and it was very nostalgic for us.” (21:00)

Timestamps to Important Segments

• 01:55 — Steve on what makes the album special
• 02:09 — Alison on clawhammer inspiration
• 03:54 — The album’s arc and genre range
• 04:29 — "New Cluck Old Hen": reinventing tradition
• 07:09 — Blending banjo and bossa nova
• 10:10 — Steve on writing lyrics for music
• 11:08–12:46 — Live in-studio banjo duet: “Let’s Get Out of Here”
• 13:11–13:53 — Alison’s life journey with the banjo
• 14:12 — Steve’s banjo origin story
• 15:36/16:22 — Banjo collections and craftsmanship
• 17:09–17:46 — Album title origin story
• 18:45 — Steve on writing “Dear Time”
• 21:30 — Martin Short banjo joke
• 21:56 — Closing live performance: “Swing Song”

Summary Reflection

This episode is a rich, personable exploration of banjo artistry, genre defiance, and creative partnership. Steve Martin and Alison Brown share not just their technical prowess but also insights into musical innovation, life’s crossroads, and the humor woven through it all. Their mutual admiration and spirit shine, making even technical banjo talk accessible and entertaining. Through performances, storytelling, and candid reminiscence, Safe, Sensible, and Sane emerges as a heartfelt labor of love and a fresh celebration of the banjo’s possibilities.