← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Summer Reading Challenge Updates: U.S. History and Historical Fiction Recommendations
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This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show, we'll talk about New York Back in the day. Authors Marie Benedict and Victoria Christopher Murray join us to talk about their new novel, A Pair of Aces, which follows two women who are trying to take down a mob boss in 1930s New York. It's based on real life, people. We'll also hear from Jonathan Mahler about his book the God of New York. Egotists, Idealists, Opportunists and the Birth of the modern city 1986 to 1990 and there's just one week left to see the Broadway adaptation of Dog Day Afternoon. We'll hear from two of its actors, Jon Bernthal and Jessica Hecht. That's the plan. So let's get this started with books. This weekend was the deadline to sign up for the third annual all of It Summer Reading Challenge. 1,280 of you signed up to read along with us this summer. You've got two months left to read six books in six different categories to win a prize. Now, if you didn't sign up in time. You can still read along with us. You just won't be eligible for that prize. One of the categories is in honor of the 250th birthday of America, which we celebrated this weekend. That category is a book about U.S. history or U.S. historical fiction. In just a bit, we're going to hear from authors Marie Benedict and Victoria Christopher Murray to talk about their new work of historical fiction, a pair of aces. But first, we're going to get some recommendations from all of it and get lit producer Jordan Loff. Hey, Jordan.
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Hey, Allison.
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Listeners, we want to hear from you. Are you participating in the summer reading challenge? What books are you reading right now? Even if you're not participating in the challenge, what's a book of American history or historical fiction that you recommend? The phone lines. They are wide open. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. So, Jordan, what book are you going to read for this category?
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I haven't fully decided yet. I think that's what I'm going to tackle next, but I'm leaning towards history instead of historical fiction just to get a good mix since a lot of the other categories are fiction heavy. What I'm most considering right now is a book called Destiny of the A Tale of Madness, Medicine and the Murder of a President by Candice Millard. And this tells the story of President James Garfield and his assassin, a man named Charles Guiteau. People might be a little bit familiar with the story because it was turned into a limited Netflix series, Death by Lightning, which came out, I believe, last year and was really, really good. So I'm excited to dive deeper into the history after watching that limited series. I also always wanted to read Hamilton by Ron Chernow, the inspiration behind the hit musical. But it's kind of long and I think at this point I'm gonna run out of time. I have to consider length my own challenge here.
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Well, let's start with some historical fiction. The first book you're recommending was named one of the top 10 books of the 21st century by the New York Times. Times. The Known World by Edward P. Jones.
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Yes. I just read it this year inspired by that list from the New York Times. I saw it had made the top 10. This is a really unique work of historical fiction. It's about a black man who comes to own a plantation with enslaved people working for him. But it expands beyond just this unique story into the story of his family, of the other people who live and work on the plantation of people in town of the sheriff and his wife. And something different about it is that it jumps back and forth in time throughout the narrative. So it'll sort of say in the future, this is what happens to this character. And when she reflects on her life from the past, this is what she thinks about. So it's got some time jumps in a really interesting way, and the writing is just excellent. And it's about a little known facet of history in the south that I found really complex and nuanced and disturbing and fascinating and all of those things. So after reading it, I really do believe it belongs in that top 10. I agree with the New York Times there.
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That's the Known World by Edward P. Jones. Let's take a call. Ann Elise is calling in from Harlem. Hey, Ann Elise, thank you for taking the time to call, all of it.
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Hi, thanks for having me.
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What are you reading?
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So I recently read Bellevue, which is a book by David Oshinsky. It's about Bellevue Hospital, and It follows about 300 years of the hospital's development and talks a lot about how it became such a forefront of public health and taking care of people who have maybe been overlooked.
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Tell me a detail in the book that you thought was really unique or that you were surprised by.
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I think I was just really surprised while reading the book about how much of American medical history was kind of developed at Bellevue or how many of our the way that we respond to crises was so much. Bellevue was so much like the place that that was happening, that the medical, you know, industry was kind of, I guess, field at the time was really learning a lot from what was happening at Bellevue.
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And that is by David Oinsky. That's called Bellevue. Thanks, Annelise. Let's talk to dawn from Carmel, New York. Hey, dawn, thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
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Hi, thank you for having me.
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So tell us what you're going to read.
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Okay. Well, I'm currently reading a book by Bruce Altman called Fear and Phoenicia, and it's about a gangster from the 30s. His name is Dutch Schultz, and he was rumored to hide his. His treasures somewhere in Phoenicia, New York. People still go there to try and dig up his treasure. And he was a member of the syndicate during the 30s. And it goes back and forth between the 30s and present day where people are searching for the treasure. So it gives a little historical fiction, and then you know, where the treasure might be hidden. And a group of people who converge on Phoenicia, New York, to try and look for the treasure.
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That sounds fascinating. And interestingly, he is a character in the book that we're gonna be talking about later.
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Oh, my God.
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Of Pair of aces. So stick around for that. We are talking about all of it. Summer Reading Challenge with producer Jordan Loft. She's providing Suggestions for the U.S. history and Historical fiction category. Listeners, we wanna hear from you. What book are you reading now for the summer Reading challenge? Or do you have a book of U.S. history or historical fiction you'd like to recommend? Give us a call now. Our number is 212-432-12-2433, WNYC. Okay, Jordan, what should someone look for if they're looking for something that's kind of adventurous?
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Yeah. I really recommend this book called north sun or the Voyage of the Whale Ship Esther by Ethan Rutherford. And I have to admit, this is a book I bought based on the COVID I know you're not supposed to do that, but the COVID of this book is so awesome. And it made me really intrigued. And. And then after I had purchased it, I saw that Obama actually recommended it in his roundup of his favorite books of the year last year. So I ended up picking it up. It's a quick and fascinating book about a whaling ship that leaves from New Bedford, Massachusetts, on a mission to recover a missing whaler, a guy who's gone missing on a mission up north a little while ago. And it's got some fantastical elements. There are some magical forces on board this ship that the whaling captain and his crew don't fully understand. But it also has some really fun scenes and that give you a sense of what small whaling towns used to be like back in the 1800s. It was very transporting and gave you a sense of that aspect of American history. I think this town in New Bedford used to be one of the whaling capitals of the world and used to be this huge outpost for whalers. And now it's just a small little town. So that was a really interesting aspect of whaling history I didn't know much about. And it's got some of the fantasy elements. If you're looking for something a little
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different, I have to say you have to stay in the Bedford. If you're gonna say New Bedford, my bad.
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And my.
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My college roommate's sister runs the New Bedford Whaling Museum, which is amazing. So next time you're up in New Bedford, you should go check it out.
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There you go.
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I'll say it right next time.
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Your next recommendation combines some fantastical elements with historical fiction. Tell us about it.
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Yeah, I really loved the book 4:3:2:1 by the late, great Paul Auster. It is long for people looking to finish the challenge quickly, but if you're a fast reader, you can definitely get through it. It's historical fiction set in Newark and New York city in the 1950s and 60s, and the fantastical element of it is that it follows the same character, Archie Ferguson, through three different versions, or, sorry, four different versions of his life. So different circumstances with his parents and his upbringing and choices he makes send him down different paths. So each version of the same character is slightly different. I found it to be an enjoyable and entertaining look at how your life can change based on circumstance. And, of course, it's also got that fun historical element of Newark and New York in the 50s and 60s. It's not fantastical in a fantasy sense, has those sort of alternate timelines. And I really. Even though this book is 900 pages, I read that really, really quickly. So I recommend 4321 by Paul Auster.
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We got a text here that says, I recommend the actual history of the Brooklyn Bridge. Much more interesting and accurate than the fictional Engineer's Wife. Also, I would encourage everyone to read Ron Chernows Alexander Hamilton. Very engaging. So you got to vote for that. For you, Jordan. This says Washington by James Thomas Flexner. Assigned reading while I was at Community College 40 years ago. Still thinking about it. This says, I highly recommend David McCullough's Truman. I read it several years ago and still recall feeling like I lost a friend when completing let's Talk to Sue on the Upper west side. Hi, Sue. Thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.
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Thank you. I. I'd like to say that I think Jordan's recommendations are really spectacularly good. I was crazy about Destiny of the Republic. We know nothing about James Garfield, and he was an extraordinarily intelligent and interesting man who died because of the lack of proper care by the medical profession. It dovetails very nicely with Bellevue because the history of Bellevue overlaps this period. I would like to recommend a completely different book. It's called the Splendid and the Vile by Eric Larson, and it's a wonderful audiobook because various people read the letters and papers of Winston Churchill and other people. And it's during the Blitz. And Americans. I'm an older American and I've read a lot of history, but we have no sense of how the British people, particularly in London, suffered during the Blitz. And this really brings it home. So I'd like to recommend that.
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Thank you so much. Let's talk to Charles and Merrick. Hey, Charles, thank you for calling all of it. What's your recommendation?
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You bet. So, hi, my recommendation that I gave to your screener was Christopher Ward's War of the Revolution. And it's not a history of the politics that led to the revolution, but of the war itself. You know, it's based on all original manuscripts and documents. But there's another one since we're on a New York radio program that I just thought of that I read some years ago. It's called New York, the City at the Heart of the Revolution by a gentleman named Schechter. The first name escapes me at the moment, but that also, you know, it highlights the war in New York in and around New York City. And what's great about it is at the end of the book, he lists a walking tour of the city.
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Sounds great. Thank you for the dual recommendations. And let's talk to Tracy in Newark. Hey, Tracy, thanks for taking the time to call all of it. What should we read?
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You should read a book that does not necessarily highlight the wonderful history of America, but a very shady part of our history. It's titled A Fever in the Heartland. It's by Timothy Egan, and it is an account of the resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan in the early 20th century and how one man and his colleagues actually orchestrated the resurgence of the Klan and how influence can truly foster hate in communities without other communities knowing each other. I think it's a wonderful story. It is based in history and it just gives an account of how the Klan surged itself and then how the clan met its demise.
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Thank you for the recommendation. We're talking about the all of It Summer Reading Challenge with producer Jordan Loff and with you. Jordan is providing suggestions for U.S. history and historical fiction category listeners. We want to hear from you. What book are you reading now for the Summer Reading Challenge? Or do you have a book about U.S. history or historical fiction you'd like to recommend? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. I see a James McBride book on this list. On this list. Tell me more.
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Yes, I really think that James McBride is a great choice for this category. There are any number of titles that could fit. I really recommend any of his novels. But the one I'm going to recommend today is the Good Lord Bird. This one is set during the Civil or right before the Civil War. It's about a young enslaved boy who gets involved with the abolitionist John Brown as he plans his raid on Harper's Ferry. But if anyone's read any James McBride, you know, that might sound serious, but James McBride has a real sense of humor, an almost wicked sense of humor, I would say. So this novel really uses that humor to point out some of the absurdity of John Brown's more radical beliefs, almost painting him as a sort of like, white savior figure trying to make this all about himself. It's a really excellent novel. James McBride is one of the best writers we have working today. And also, if you're interested, there's a great adaptation. I believe it was on Showtime, starring Ethan Hawke as John Brown. And I thought it was just. It managed to capture the sense of humor perfectly. I couldn't believe that they managed to pull it off. So there's an excellent adaptation to go along with the novel.
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If you're.
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If you're so inclined, the next novel
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you're recommending is set during the Dust bowl, and I believe we talked about it on the show. The Antidote. It's by Karen Russell. It's so good.
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Yes. I loved this book. This is a story of a small town that's been decimated by the Dust Bowl. And in this town, there is a woman there called the Antidote who has this sort of mystical power to take away your worst memories. You can tell her about something that you'd rather forget, and she sort of locks it in this memory bank and it's gone from your memory. But what the novel really explores is what happens when a place forgets about their past, even if that past is bad. If you just get rid of all the memories you'd rather forget, what do you lose by doing that? And there's also a new photographer who shows up in town, and her camera seems to be able to capture some of that past that the town would rather forget. So it's really a novel about reckoning with America's past. Some of the elements of our past we might not like to reckon with so much. There's also a really fun bit about high school girls basketball team who are trying their best to keep playing in the midst of the Dust Bowl. So there's a lot going on. There's a little bit for everybody. And I really, really enjoyed the Antidote by Karen Russell.
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And your last historical fiction recommendation comes from acclaimed crime writer Dennis Lehane.
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Yes, I thought his novel Small Mercies was really excellent. This is set in Boston right after busing begins to more formally integrate the public schools. That was in the 1970s. This one follows an Irish woman who is on the hunt to discover what's happened to her missing daughter. Her daughter goes missing one night, and the night that she goes missing, a young black man was also murdered. So there's this idea that her disappearance and this man's death might be connected. And I would say it's a really unflinching portrait of racism in Boston in the 1970s. He does not pull punches even with his main characters. He's not afraid to make the protagonist unlikable and I think probably realistic for what some people believed in 1970s Boston at that time. So in addition to being a really compelling thriller, it also has a lot to say about, you know, our attempts at integration, even all the way into the 1970s and 80s.
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We'll have more with Jordan Lof about our all of It Summer Reading Challenge. We're gonna take a break. We'll talk about history books after and we'll take more of your calls. This is All OF it. You're listening to All OF IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're talking about the all of It Summer Reading Challenge. You've got about two months left to read six books in six different categories. Today we're focusing on one category, US History or historical fiction. Producer Jordan Loff is here, and we just finished her recommendations for historical fiction. Now let's talk about history. You have up first, King of the Iranian Revolution, a story of hubris, delusion and catastrophic miscalculation by Scott Anderson.
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Yes, this book may sound like it's about Iran, and it is, of course, but it's also a lot about the United States foreign policy at this moment and the many, many mistakes that the Carter administration, the CIA, the embassy, the State Department, the, you know, Homeland Security, everyone. Well, I guess Homeland Security didn't exist back then, but you know what I mean. Yeah. Where they went wrong and where they failed to see the circumstances that were leading up to a revolution that ended up driving this massive rift between the United States and Iran. And what I really learned in this book is just how close that partnership was before the revolution, that the US And Iran and the Shah of Iran were really, really close allies until it all started to fall apart. So this book really traces the origins of that revolution and was really helpful to me in sort of understanding obviously what is going on between the US And Iran today and the roots of that discontent in that relationship. I really can't recommend it enough. It's also very readable for a book about Something so complex. So I really, really enjoyed it and learned a lot.
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Yeah. Another book that's really good is. I think it's called the Guests of the Ayatollah by Mark Bowden. Again, another really a great book about the subject. Let's talk to Emily from Harlem. Hey, Emily, thanks for calling all of it.
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Hi. I actually have a recommendation for historical fiction.
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Oh, it's okay.
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Go for it. It's called All We Were Promised by Ashton Lattimore, and it's set in Philadelphia in the 1830s about three young black women. One woman is growing up in a wealthy, free black family. Another is a runaway enslaved woman who's trying to hold on to her freedom. And the third is somebody she was enslaved with who comes to Philadelphia. And it's just an absolutely beautifully written book. But it really gave me an incredible understanding of the sort of environment of Philadelphia and the hypocrisy of the city, particularly leading up to the Civil War and then seeing the current situation in Philadelphia, particularly like the MOVE bombings and the racial disparities that have plagued Philadelphia for so long. But it is just an incredibly beautiful book. I was up all night finishing it. I have sent it to everybody. My mom called and complained because she was up all night finishing it. And it's. I just can't recommend it enough.
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Thank you so much for calling. This says reading the Deer Slayer by James Fenimore Cooper could count as historical fiction or classic, fantastic romantic adventure, despite many calling Cooper a boring, ponderous writer. Let's talk to Marianne, who's calling in from the Upper east side. Hi, Marianne. Thank you for calling all of it. You're on the air.
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Thank you for taking my call. This book that I read a number of years ago has just never left me. It was so incredible. It's called into the Heart of the Sea and the subject is the tragedy of the whaleship Essex. It's by Nathaniel Philbrick, and it is this incredible story about this whaling ship out of Nantucket and apparently was what inspired Melville to write Moby Dick, because it was really pretty, astounding. And it's a fantastic book.
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Thank you for calling in. Let's get back to you, Jordan, some more of your recommendations. What if somebody wants to go way back into American history? Yes.
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If you're looking to learn more about America before Europeans, I really recommend 1491 new revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann. This book is a great and sweeping history of both north and South America, of what the Americas looked like before colonizers arrived it gives you a really great sense of the cultures and civilizations that made up North America in particular and dispels many common misconceptions or miseducation people might have about what civilizations looked like in the time before Columbus arrived in 1492. So I think if you're looking for a really good overview and understanding of the fact that American history doesn't start with the revolution or even with the Mayflower, you can try this book. I found it really informative and fascinating.
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Gary's calling in from Bronxville. Hey, Gary, thank you for taking the time to call all of it. Gary, are you there? Gary's not there. Let's go to another of your recommendations. Let's talk about people who are really, really interested in America's birthday, all the celebrations that happened this weekend. What should they read exactly?
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If you're feeling in that patriotic spirit, you want to know more about the revolutionaries. Historian Rick Atkinson has you covered. He is in the midst of working on a trilogy about the revolution and the first two parts are out now. Part one is titled the British Are Coming the War for America, Lexington to Princeton, 1775-1777. Part two is titled the Fate of the Day the War for America, Fort ticonderoga to Charleston, 1777-1780. As the titles might suggest, these are really in depth accountings of the American Revolution, but also very readable. It's going to give you a lot of military detail if that's what you're looking for. And if anyone watched the Ken Burns series, Rick Atkinson was one of the most prominent talking heads discussing some of the battles and history there. So he really knows his stuff. And I believe the third part should be coming soon. I don't know exactly when, but there'll be a third installment to round out the trilogy and make a nice little collection for your bookshelf if the revolution is what you're really interested in.
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Let's talk to Ted, who's calling from Staten Island. Hey, Ted, thanks for taking the time to call all of it. You're on the air.
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Hi. Thanks for having me on.
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Sure.
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The book I'm going to recommend is on the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison. It's the stone cold hard truth about the assassination and President Kennedy. Some readers or listeners may be familiar with the story from the Oliver Stone film, which was based largely on the book, but the film kind of fictionalizes it. And the book is much better because you're just getting the facts. I think it's the most important piece of history that's ever been written for the United States.
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Thank you so much for calling in. This text says two fantastic reads nonfiction that reads like fiction are Isabel Wilkerson's the Warmth of Other Suns and Kevin Boyle's the Arc of Justice. Warmth tells the story of the great migration of the 20th century using firsthand and historical sources. Following families that migrate to New York City, Louisiana, and Chicago, Boyle looks at Detroit on the earliest on the early 20th century and housing integration. Both are compelling, like novels, but nonfiction. Amazing books. That's from Renee in Central Jersey. You've got two books here that are related to the history of cults in the United States. And if people like reading about cults, what do you suggest?
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Yes, I have to confess, I am one of these people. I love a good book about cults. American cults in particular. We seem to be really good at them. The two that I'm recommending are number one is titled the Road to Jim Jones and the People's Temple by Jeff Guinn. This is of course, about American or about Jim Jones and the tragedy at Jonestown, but I found it to also be a very American story. I mean, Jim Jones, I learned he became a Christian minister in the 1950s. He was kind of a civil rights activist before he went a little bit off the rails, one might say. So it's very fascinating to learn a little bit more about his trajectory and how Jonestown ended up happening. And then the next one is about Waco. This one is titled the True Story of David Koresh and the Tragedy at Waco by Sarah Stephen Talty. And again, this is as much the story of Waco as it is a biography of David Kress himself. And what I really found this one to be is an examination of how the government handles cases of political or social extremism. What went wrong? Should they have just sort of been left alone? There's a lot to dig into there beyond just the story of David Koresh. So again, if you're interested in cults and how they connect to American history and social movements, there's the Road to Jonestown and then there's Koresh. A biography.
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Let's talk to Jerry from Fairlawn, New Jersey. Hey, Jerry, thanks for calling in.
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Good morning.
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Historical fiction about New York that I'd like to recommend is Forever by Pete Hamill, former New York columnist and journalist. The story of a boy from Ireland who travels to then New Amsterdam while on the ship is cast a spell on him by some African witch and that he cannot die until three things happen as a result, he lives through four centuries. So he fights in the he grows up in New Amsterdam before it becomes New York and then he ends up fighting a Revolutionary War, the Civil War, et cetera. It was just all historically true about New York, just depictional characters and eventually he is able to die. I won't tell you when, but
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thank you so much for calling. Okay, Jordan, we only have a minute or two left. Let's talk biographies. Can you give us a good list?
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Yeah. There are so many great biographies of titans of American history. And if you love biographies and you love American history, good news is that this summer we will be airing some of our selections of full bio on Fridays, American History Fridays. Well, you'll get to hear Alison, your great conversations about so many titans of American history. So those are coming up on Fridays this summer. A couple I really liked are Eleanor by David Michaelis. This was a really in depth, fascinating look at Eleanor Roosevelt, warts and all. I learned a lot. There's also the very acclaimed Giant MLK biography by Jonathan I. That's always a good one to dive into. And also as as I mentioned in a different caller mentioned, really Anything by Ron Chernow is great in this category. He's got Hamilton, he's got Washington, he's got Mark Twain. The list goes on. It's got the greatest hits. So if you want to pick up a biography, Ron Chernow is often a good place to start.
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And do you want to give any people any information about the Summer Reading Challenge before we go?
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Yes. If you want to learn more, you can head to wnyc.org summerreadingchallenge as you mentioned, our signups are sadly closed, but you can still read along with us and on that site you'll see some recommendations, you'll see the full list of categories, and you'll also see the link to sign up for for the all of it, the get lit newsletter, which is where we are sending updates and communicating with you guys and checking in on how you're doing on the challenge. So you can also sign up for the newsletter and happy reading and good luck picking your books for the categories. It's a fun, fun thing and I'm always in danger of not finishing my own challenge, so I'm in the trenches with all of you.
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And by the way, this conversation will be available via transcript. If you couldn't quite write down the author or the book, it'll be available for you tomorrow. We'll see you tomorrow.
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Jord, thanks so much. Thanks, Allison. Now is your time to get into
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