The 70th Anniversary of 'Lolita' with Kaveh Akbar (Classics Week)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 70th Anniversary of 'Lolita' with Kaveh Akbar

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Episode: The 70th Anniversary of 'Lolita' with Kaveh Akbar (Classics Week)
• Release Date: August 13, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of ALL OF IT, host Alison Stewart delves into the enduring legacy of Vladimir Nabokov's controversial novel, 'Lolita', marking its 70th anniversary. Joining her is esteemed poet and novelist Kaveh Akbar, author of the recent novel Martyr. The discussion explores the intricate language of Nabokov, the moral complexities of the protagonist, and the novel's relevance in contemporary society.

2. Kaveh Akbar's First Encounter with 'Lolita' (02:42)

Alison Stewart initiates the conversation by asking Kaveh Akbar about his initial experience with 'Lolita'. Akbar recounts reading the novel during high school, highlighting its "illicit" and "strange" nature compared to other books on his reading list.

Kaveh Akbar [02:49]: "I just pulled it off the shelf. And I remember being... It just felt so much more illicit than the other books on that list. It felt also like the language was an order of magnitude stranger than most of the others that I had read."

This early impression underscores the novel's unique blend of mesmerizing language and unsettling subject matter.

3. The Power of Nabokov's Language (04:02)

As a poet, Akbar is particularly attuned to Nabokov's linguistic prowess. He praises Nabokov for his "defamiliarizing" language that transforms everyday American landscapes into something "Martian and strange".

Kaveh Akbar [04:02]: "We see Humbert's descriptions of America and it is so acute and Martian and strange and strangering... It is a novel about incuriosity more than anything else."

Akbar emphasizes how Nabokov forces readers to "see things that we thought we'd seen, but making us totally see them again", revitalizing mundane experiences through literary craftsmanship.

4. Cultural and Historical Context of 'Lolita' (05:27)

Alison steers the conversation towards Nabokov's background, noting his trilingual upbringing in Russian, English, and French, which Akbar believes permeates his writing style.

Kaveh Akbar [05:27]: "Nabokov was the last of this very aristocratic Russian class... He was trying desperately to impress upon you how urbane he is and how smart and how sophisticated he is."

This aristocratic and cultured background influences Humbert Humbert's "aesthetic and therefore moral authority", contrasting sharply with the American settings he observes.

5. Analyzing Humbert Humbert as an Unreliable Narrator (08:46)

The discussion shifts to the novel's narrative structure, particularly the foreword by the fictional Dr. John Ray Jr., which frames Humbert's manuscript. Akbar interprets this as a device to "lend the entire book this garment of reality", subtly tipping readers about the story's outcome.

Alison probes further into Humbert's trustworthiness as a narrator, prompting Akbar to dissect Humbert's manipulative language and his attempt to "cudgel you into this feeling of his aesthetic".

Kaveh Akbar [09:00]: "There are all these ways in which he's trying to draw you into his way of looking at things before you even really had a chance to form an opinion about him."

Akbar illustrates how Humbert's "arachnoid way" of storytelling ensnares readers, masking his heinous actions with eloquent prose.

6. Listener Interaction: Marie from Woodstock (10:45)

A listener named Marie Helene Bertino calls in to share her appreciation for 'Lolita's' language. Akbar acknowledges Marie's work, fostering a connection between the audience and the literary discussion.

Alison Stewart [11:08]: "Share a similar love for the language."

Though Akbar doesn't quote a specific line, he references the novel's exquisite descriptions, particularly in the second chapter of part two, capturing the essence of their American journey.

7. Ethical Implications and Modern Parallels (12:14)

Another listener, Jerry from Larchmont, brings up the sensitive topic of Humbert's obsession with a young girl, drawing parallels to contemporary issues like the Epstein case. Akbar responds by highlighting Nabokov's intent to demonstrate how language can "charm and seduce" readers, obscuring morally reprehensible actions.

Kaveh Akbar [13:12]: "He [Humbert] is playing this song that makes you want to euphemize or that makes you want to continue along... This is one of the most germane ethical things that I can think of that literature can teach us today."

He connects this to modern-day use of language in stifling critical thinking and enabling societal issues to persist under the guise of sanitized rhetoric.

Kaveh Akbar [15:34]: "Every person starving in Gaza right now is a human being with a heart that could fit inside my chest. Right. And when we euphemize that, even words like genocide or famine, drive over that."

This segment underscores the novel's timeless relevance in understanding the manipulation of language in ethical and political contexts.

8. Reception and Enduring Appeal of 'Lolita' (16:30)

Alison asks Akbar why 'Lolita' continues to attract readers despite—or perhaps because of—its controversy. Akbar references critic Edmund White, who noted that Nabokov's goal was to "make you like the monstrous Humbert Humbert."

Kaveh Akbar [16:30]: "The novel forces you to sit in that contradiction, that evil can be charming. That... this book gives us the experience of sitting with a character who we find truly morally repugnant and also sometimes charming."

He suggests that the novel's ability to evoke discomfort and provoke introspection keeps it relevant, allowing readers to explore complex moral landscapes.

9. Adaptations and Teaching the Novel (18:09)

The conversation turns to film adaptations, with Akbar expressing a preference for the novel over Stanley Kubrick's rendition, which he finds more "salacious." While not positioning himself as a film critic, Akbar acknowledges the differing interpretations between mediums.

When asked about teaching 'Lolita,' Akbar admits he hasn't taught it in full, primarily focusing on poetry. However, he emphasizes its pedagogical value in teaching students about "intrinsic curiosity" and the dangers of "mortally incurious" perspectives.

Kaveh Akbar [18:49]: "This is a horror story about what happens when you are mortally incurious."

He advocates for the novel's role in fostering deep ethical understanding and critical thinking in educational settings.

10. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Alison Stewart highlights listener feedback and encourages the audience to engage with 'Lolita' and Kaveh Akbar's work.

Alison Stewart [21:16]: "You should read his book Martyr, by the way. He joined us to discuss the 70th anniversary of Lolita."

Kaveh Akbar and Alison part on a note of mutual appreciation, underscoring the episode's exploration of 'Lolita' as a monumental work that continues to challenge and inspire readers decades after its publication.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kaveh Akbar [02:49]: "I just pulled it off the shelf. And I remember being... It just felt so much more illicit than the other books on that list."

• Kaveh Akbar [04:02]: "We see Humbert's descriptions of America and it is so acute and Martian and strange and strangering... It is a novel about incuriosity more than anything else."

• Kaveh Akbar [05:27]: "Nabokov was the last of this very aristocratic Russian class... He was trying desperately to impress upon you how urbane he is and how smart and how sophisticated he is."

• Kaveh Akbar [09:00]: "There are all these ways in which he's trying to draw you into his way of looking at things before you even really had a chance to form an opinion about him."

• Kaveh Akbar [13:12]: "He [Humbert] is playing this song that makes you want to euphemize or that makes you want to continue along... This is one of the most germane ethical things that I can think of that literature can teach us today."

• Kaveh Akbar [16:30]: "The novel forces you to sit in that contradiction, that evil can be charming. That... this book gives us the experience of sitting with a character who we find truly morally repugnant and also sometimes charming."

• Kaveh Akbar [18:49]: "This is a horror story about what happens when you are mortally incurious."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of ALL OF IT offers a profound exploration of 'Lolita', examining its intricate language, complex characters, and enduring ethical questions. Kaveh Akbar's insights provide listeners with a deeper understanding of why Nabokov's work continues to resonate and provoke discussion 70 years after its publication. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the novel, this conversation sheds light on the multifaceted nature of one of literature's most debated masterpieces.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Coming up. This year marks the 70th anniversary of the novel Lolita. We'll discuss the novel's legacy next with author Kaveh Akbar. WNYC supporters include the Sanitation foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the New York City Department of Sanitation, for reminding listeners to help keep the city clean by not littering. Don't do New York City dirty trash, your trash.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Calvary Hospital, where Life continues, celebrating 125 years of expert palliative and hospice care throughout greater New York that extends to the whole family. Learn more at calvaryhospital.org New York Public Radio's Independent Community Advisory Board wants to hear your ideas on local election coverage and the issues that are important. Wednesday, August 20th at 6:30pm on Zoom [e-mail] cab if you believe democracy requires a free press, Your station is WNYC, 93.9 FM and AMA20, NPR News and the New York Conversation.

[Alison Stewart]

This is ALL of IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. This is Classics Week here at all of It. It is one of our categories on the all of It Summer Reading Challenge. Now, in a classic piece of work, one can marvel over the way language and words are used. Is it beautiful, like in Hassani's A Thousand Splendid Suns? Or is it terrifying, like in Sinclair Lewis's It Can Happen Here? Or does the language send your mind spinning or perhaps even trap you, as can happen in one of the greatest classics that we'll be talking about today, Lolita, by Vladimir Nabokov. As the main character, Humbert Humbert says, oh, my Lolita, I have only words to play with. Nabokov uses alliteration, word scrambling, biblical references, language manipulation and so much more to tell you. A story of sexual perversion and obsession and rape and murder and longing, all told to us in the first person by Humbert Humbert himself. Lolita is celebrating its 70th anniversary. Joining us now is author, poet Professor Kaveh Akbar. He is the author of the recent novel Martyr Kaveh. Welcome back to All OF it.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Thanks so much, Alison. It's great to be here.

[Alison Stewart]

When was the first time you read Lolita and what was it about this book that it left a lasting impression on you?

[Kaveh Akbar]

I remember reading it in high school for the first time. I was the sort of high school student who would find one of those read these hundred books before you die, or else you're an intellectually impoverished, you know, garbage human. And so this was one of the books on one of those lists that I found I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about Nabokov. I just pulled it off the shelf. And I remember being. It just felt so much more illicit than the other books on that list. It felt also like the language was an order of magnitude stranger than most of the others that I had read. The language throughout, the subject matter was equal parts thriller and novel of manners, like Jane Austen or something. It was just. It was very, very bizarre. I just remember being struck by how strange it felt.

[Alison Stewart]

You're a poet as well as a novelist, so obviously language is really important to you. What aspect of Nabokov's language in this novel do you admire?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Well, it's a big question I admire. Well, yeah, I think what is compelling to me about Nabokov's language in this novel is how defamiliarizing it is as Humbert and Lolita drive through America. They are just we. We see Humbert's descriptions of America and it is so acute and Martian and strange and strangering, the way that this character describes America. And because this is a character who feels nothing but contempt for anything that is not directly adjacent to his particular obsession, it is a novel about incuriosity more than anything else. The way that. That contempt manifests at the level of language, at the level of strangeness and defamiliarization and making us see things that we thought we'd seen, but making us totally see them again. You know, the things that we just pass by every day, the things that we look at but don't actually see, the things that we don't notice. This is a novel that shakes the cobwebs off of everyday experience in this country.

[Alison Stewart]

He grew up trilingual. He spoke Russian, English and French at home. Can you see this in his writing?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Well, yeah, he was the kind of. He was the last of this very aristocratic Russian class who grew up, you know, polylingual and, you know, having high tea. And his father was a Democrat, but not a. But not a Bolshevik. And so when he was assassinated in 1922, the Nabokov. The Nabokovs all came to America and started living a very different sort of life. But Nabokov himself was very still and cultured by this very, very sort of bourgeois upbringing. Right. And so that affect. The way that Humbert tries to inhabit, that affect, you know, and kind of cudgel you into this feeling of his aesthetic and therefore moral authority is one of the overarching themes in the book. Right? It's. He's trying desperately to impress upon you how urbane he is and how smart and how sophisticated he is, especially compared to all the rubes in America around him. And that is one of the loudest elements of his character.

[Alison Stewart]

Good use of the word cudgel. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Have you read Lolita? What did you think of the novel? What was the author trying to accomplish with this book? We want to hear your thoughts on lolita on its 70th anniversary. Our phone number is 212-433-969-2212 4338. My guest is poet and novelist Kaveh Akbar. We're discussing the 70th anniversary of Vladimir Nabokov's novel Lolita. The book actually begins with a foreword from a fictional doctor, John Ray Jr. Who introduces the manuscript written by Humbert Humbert who's in jail. We find out why. Why do you think this fictional foreword, what is it meant to convey to the reader?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Well, it lends to the narrative, which is a fictional narrative, the patina of, you know, a thinly veiled true story. Right. You know, it is sort of again, you know, casting it as if it's, these names were just altered. But this is a true crime, you know, salacious true crime story. It also narratively, you know, I don't want to spoil this, you know, decades old book for listeners who haven't read it, right. But narratively it tells us how the book ends. It tells us, you know, what happens to these characters at the end of the foreword, which I won't get too into, but you know, an attentive reader will see in the foreword, you know, it's spelling out exactly what happens and sort of tipping the hand of the, of the book itself. So, but yeah, I mean, I think fundamentally it's there to lend the entire book this, you know, this garment of reality, right. It immerses you in it. There's also all these funny anagrams inside of it and like, you know, weird little makeups of Nabokov's name and the characters names. And you know, you can tell that he's just a writer who's having fun too.

[Alison Stewart]

It becomes clear that Humbert Harmbard is not a narrator that we should necessarily trust.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Absolutely, absolutely. That's right.

[Alison Stewart]

Can you give us an example of a sign that. Wait a minute, wait a minute. As you're reading the book.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Well, you know, I mean, this is a child abuser, kidnapper, murderer. We know this from the very beginning of the book. And he opens the book by inviting you to participate in naming Lolita. Lolita, he says, and he's like making you put it on your mouth, right? And he's, like, inviting you into this sort of. He's trying to get you into this experience of obsession with him, Right? He's trying to. He has this vile, contemptible, repellent. You know, there's no interesting reader for whom this is a character who is anything but vile and repugnant. Right. Morally or ethically. Right. But you can tell that he's sort of, in this arachnoid way, spinning a web immediately to draw you into his world, his mind. And then he starts to tell you that, you know, Lolita had a precedent, Right. That there was this other girl from his youth. But. But that wouldn't be the question in your mind, really. You know, like if someone is abusing a child, the first question you have isn't, oh, well, did she have a precedent? But because he plants that question now, you're like, oh, what is that story? Right? So there are all these ways in which he's trying to ju you immediately and invite you into his way of looking at things before you even really had a chance to form an opinion about him. And you can. You can tell it from the first page of the book, right. That this is. This is someone with an agenda. He calls you. He calls you the jury. Right. He calls the reader the jury. Right? As if so semi, explicitly, semi farcically, naming the entire novel as an effort towards personal exoneration.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a call. This is Marie, who is calling in from Woodstock, New York. Hi, Marie, thanks for taking the time to call, all of it. Hi, Alison, it's so nice to talk to you. Hey, Kaveh, it's Marie Helene.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Oh, no way. Marie Helene Bertino, transcendent American author of Beauty Land and a new book of stories as well. Truly, truly, truly incredible writer.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Okay. Love you.

[Alison Stewart]

Love that you're talking about Lolita. Share a similar love for the language.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Level of this book.

[Alison Stewart]

And I was curious to know if you had a favorite line that you could share with us or some language.

[Kaveh Akbar]

That you truly loved. Yeah, the second chapter of part two, where they're just going through America. Give me. I don't want to do this live on air to pull it up. I apologize. I don't have it immediately memorized. But if you think about the second chapter. Oh, you have. Alison has it. You can just, like, point to a paragraph in the. In the second chapter of part two, and it's just them riding through America. Humbert describing what he sees at the gas stations and describing his disappointment with the Appalachian Mountains and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. If you point to any paragraph in.

[Alison Stewart]

There, I was also sort of interested in that her name is Dolores, which means, like pain.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Oh, Dolores. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes. I mean, that, to me, was the first thing that caught my attention.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and Humbert has his famous sort of regime of calling her, you know, she was Dottie, she was Lolita naked in one sock, she was Dottie at school, et cetera, et cetera. That passage.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Jerry in Larchmont on line two. Hi, Jerry, thank you for taking the time to call, all of it. Hi, I have a question about. So Lolita, with all its beauty of language and historical biblical references and so forth, at its center is a concentration on a fascination of an older man with a younger person. As a matter of fact, a young girl. I'm wondering, how does that scan with our focus recently in the news on the Epstein business?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Sure. Well, I think that one of the projects in which Nabokov is most interested in this book is showing us how we can be charmed and seduced by language, by rhetoric, right? When you're shot with this fire hose of deeply, deeply, deeply strange, defamiliarizing, uncanny language, you find yourself wrapped. It's like you're, you know, it's like Humbert is the snake charmer, right? And you find yourself. You find yourself, you know, flipping the pages quickly despite the fact that what he's describing and also euphemizing and also not describing importantly are some of the most heinous acts that one could conceive of, right? You know, pedophilic rape is what he's describing, right? And yet, you know, in these passages of prose, right, He's. He's playing this song that makes you want to euphemize or that makes you want to continue along, right? And I think that few things could be more germane today, right? When the great weapon used to stifle critical thinking in this country is a raw overwhelm of meaningless language. And we are all being shot with a fire hose of language and, you know, endless scrolls and we say words like these and, you know, and, and. And we're sort of being taught to not pay very much attention to what the language is actually describing or what the language is euphemizing, right? We're being taught that things like, you know, right to self defense, right? Allows for what right to self defense actually means is, you know, man made famines and Concurrent genocides. And, you know, we. We have phrases like alligator, Alcatraz, right. That is describing a concentration camp that we have built. You know, and so this, this technology that the novel gives us, right, to understand the intoxicating incantatory effect of language and the way that it can pave over the way that we can participate in a kind of craven acquiescence to the authority of language is, again, one of the most germane ethical things that I can think of that literature can teach us today.

[Alison Stewart]

It was, I think it was Elie Wiesel said, don't say economic inequality when you can say a poor hungry child.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Absolutely, absolutely. Because every, every person starving in Gaza right now is a human being with a heart that could fit inside my chest. Right. And when we euphemize that, even words like genocide or famine, Right. You know, pave over that. Right. And the whole project of this novel, or I don't mean to speak that generally, a major project of this novel is to show you the ways that rhetoric and intoxicating language can obfuscate the reality that is sat right in front of you.

[Alison Stewart]

This is a controversial book from the moment it was published, I think an American bestseller. People didn't want it initially, no bookseller. They finally did publish it and it became a bestseller. Why do you think readers are interested in this novel?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Yeah, I mean, there is anytime there is as big of a controversy as there was around this novel and as much sort of hand wringing and pearl clutching as there was around this novel, there is going to be a commensurate readership. The recently departed, incredible writer and critic Edmund White wrote, nabokov's job in the book is to make you like the monstrous Humbert humbert. In the 1960s, readers were too swinging to see how evil he was, and now readers are too prudish to see how charming he can be. Right. And I think that, like the fact that the novel forces you to sit in that contradiction, Right. That evil can be charming. Right. That, you know, which is as old as Milton in Paradise Lost. Right. It's as old as Faustus by Marlowe. Right. I mean, we know this, right? But sitting in what is not morally obvious, what is not ethically infantilized, is really nourishing for us, right? You read Morrison and you get these characters that are infinitely, infinitely ethically complex, right. Not every character is thinking the morally or politically hygienic thing at the moment, Right. And I think that this book gives us the experience of sitting with a character who we find truly, truly Truly morally repugnant and also sometimes charming. And also, you know, he will make us laugh. Right. And that is. That is uncomfortable. Right? That is uncomfortable. And I think that some people draw away from such discomfort and other people sort of poke a little bit more into it to edify what is within us. Still molten.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think of the adaptations, the movie adaptations that have happened as a result of this book?

[Kaveh Akbar]

Yeah, I'm not a film scholar. You know, the Kubrick movie, I think, is a little bit more salacious than the novel and maybe a little bit more. Yeah, I'm not a film critic. I don't want to render inexpert. Take I. The novel is the primary text for me. I have seen the Kubrick movie a couple times. It's not my favorite Kubrick. I think that. Yeah, Yeah. I just. I don't want to wade into waters about which I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Alison Stewart]

Is Lolita something that you've taught before?

[Kaveh Akbar]

I've never taught the novel in its entirety before, mostly because I've spent most of my life as a professor teaching poetry. And so, um. But I do think that, you know, there is something, again, worthwhile. And I'm not saying that every teacher should teach it in every classroom or that a student wouldn't be wrong to want to exempt themselves from experiencing that, especially if they have, you know, traumas that align or in some way. In some way it would be unsafe for them to sit in that experience. But I do think, again, in a moment, where so much of the. The pedagogical crisis in education is around students is offloading their curiosity into A.I. you know, outsourcing their. Their. Their inquisitiveness about the world into artificial apparatuses. Right. Or availing themselves of those. Right. This is a. This is, among other things, a horror story about what happens when you are mortally incurious. Right. Like, Humbert doesn't care about any other human being. He has no ability to perceive the interiority of any other human being. Even when he speaks about Lolita as a person, you know, in the. In the second act of the novel on, you know, he's pretty repelled by what she actually likes. You know, bobby socks and, you know, the music that she likes and the comics that she reads. Right. He's constantly sort of condescending to her about these things. The thing that. What he likes is this kind of mythologized version of her. This kind of aestheticized, vacant version of her. Right. So, like, even the object of his obsession he can't really see. Right. He can't really see as in possession of a vital and complex interiority. Right. And that extends orders of magnitude more so for every other human being in the world, leading to, you know, the murder that happens at the end of the book. Right. And so I mean, this is a person who is sort of at the zenith end of the spectrum of incuriosity. Right. And again, like sitting with that sitting in the sitting in the moral complexity, the non ethically infantilized reality that is so much more consistent with our own, I think is tremendously pedagogically useful.

[Alison Stewart]

This text says recently reread Lolita in my book Club After a 40 year hiatus, this time I was blown away by the writing and the erudite vocabulary. Our guest has been Kaveh Akbar. You should read his book Martyr, by the way. He joined us to discuss the 70th anniversary of Lolita. Nice to talk to you again.

[Kaveh Akbar]

Thank you so much, Alison. I appreciate it.

[Alison Stewart]

There's more, all of it on the way.

[Kaveh Akbar]

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[Alison Stewart]

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